University

TreeEater
TreeEater

Is it worth studying literature (and arts humanities in general) at anywhere but an elite university?

I'm not sure how it is with the Ivy Leagues and other top American schools, but in England Oxbridge seems to have the monopoly on top intellectual careers (journalism, criticism, etc.).

If you're going elsewhere is it wise to read for a degree that won't qualify you for a job outright?

All urls found in this thread:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304096/Graduate-physics-PhD-31-fell-death-block-flats-taking-job-centre-qualified-for.html
https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbudte_hunderacer
https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbudte_hunderacer
Firespawn
Firespawn

is it wise to read for a degree that won't qualify you for a job outright
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304096/Graduate-physics-PhD-31-fell-death-block-flats-taking-job-centre-qualified-for.html

WebTool
WebTool

@TreeEater
Tbh, if you have the opportunity to study Philosophy, History or Literature at Oxbridge, fucking take it. Even if it does provide useless skills, that degree is still pretty gold.

Plus it'll be a fairly good experience (just make sure you avoid shitty leftie professors).

Emberburn
Emberburn

@WebTool
just make sure you avoid shitty leftie professors
This, always make sure that your personal views go unchallenged. This is the key for a proper education in philosophy and the humanities in general.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Emberburn
I already SAID that

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@TreeEater
If you’re in the UK a degree from Oxbridge is gold no matter what discipline. After that, unis like Edinburgh, Durham and St Andrews are still very well appreciated. It’s once you get out of the Russel Group that things start to truly devalue.

massdebater
massdebater

@Emberburn
It's virtually impossible for a right-wing person to have their views unchallenged at a university. I only advise avoiding certain professors for sanity's sake.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@massdebater
The best way to tell if someone either a) doesn’t go to university, or b) is a /pol/tard brainlet, is to let them tell you how horrible it is to be right-wing at uni.

Yes, there are more leftists at university, but you’re absolutely braindead if you think it’s anything close to driving anyone ‘insane’.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@PurpleCharger
t. leftie

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@whereismyname
That’s the point though, I’m not a leftie. I’m right-wing, most of my friends are too. The only people that have a hard time being right-wing at uni are retards that get offended when the lecturer makes a joke about Trump or Brexit.

Frankly, if you can’t cope with the mild left-wing bias of academia then perhaps you shouldn’t be at uni.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@TreeEater
I did a masters of literature at a university that is very respected for its literature program and honestly I found it to be a bit of a glorified book club. I was an economics major and I mostly study philosophy so I might have been disproportionately annoyed by people’s willingness to spout stupid opinions and the general acceptance of group discussion as a learning tool as opposed to being fed useful information by a knowledgeable professor. I am brilliant (4.0 after only taking one English class in undergrad) but English professors seem to have a limit to their value as smart people. By this I mean, most of them are specialized in a silly way and I think scholarship on literature is so far behind the artists that create it. Studying literature in an academic setting is a waste of time unless you need your hand held. If your aim is to understand literature, study philosophy in school and read literature on your own. If your aim is to write, live in crazy environments amongst degenerates or other absurd creatures of our society (rednecks, the rich etc.). There is much more to learn from in our fucked up system than what a washed-up enjoyer of novels can tell you in a university setting

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@PurpleCharger
Tbh this is anecdotal evidence but I did my bachelors in philosophy and there were a fair amount of conservative professors and students. Leftists are definetly more common but I had a (brilliant) aesthetics professor that once told us "concentration camps are a manifestation of the highness of human spirit". I think I had a whooping one subject with a focus of gender/queer theory, and even then it was a fairly interesting class that followed developments on Austin's speech acts.

askme
askme

@TreeEater
I studied comparative literature. If you're doing it for the interest and not for the job possibilities, then I'd say yes. I'm on a different masters right now and Comparative Literature enriched me on many personal aspects of my life. I don't regret it, it has a life long value to me. I'm going to work as a mason now.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@TreeEater

I can't afford to go to college. Thanks, America.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@iluvmen
Get a visa to stay in Denmark. Get a 10 hours study job there and the goverment pays for your education + they pay you 855 dollars pr. month to study.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@iluvmen
@Poker_Star
And travel back to America when you're done with your education.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Poker_Star

I can't even afford to move. Plus, I don't think I can take my dog with me.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Poker_Star
they pay you 855 dollars pr. month to study.
Which should be around the price of one beer in Kobenhavn

SniperWish
SniperWish

@iluvmen
I can't either, but I'm still doing it. If I don't finish my degree and land a job, I'm practically fucked. Demand is high, at least.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Snarelure
Too bad you can't afford it. I think most places are fine with you having your dog there. Maybe a little harsh on your dog, since the climate/temperature change is probably hard.

@Emberfire
Lel yeah, but just brew your own beer. Piece of cake.

TechHater
TechHater

@StonedTime
Wait. Scratch the last part, because I actually think that's illegal now.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@TreeEater
journalism, criticism
intellectual careers
Very nice bait.
worth studying literature at anywhere but an elite university?
No. Studying literature is worthless on its own. Big name diploma will at least give you some employability prosepects.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@StonedTime

Maybe once I finally get to go to work (soon) I can save up a load of money and move. She's also a staffordshire terrier (and looks like a pitbull) so isn't there a lot of garbage about that in other places? Ironically, she's the friendliest dog I've ever been around. Would Denmark be okay with that? If the climate is that bad I can get her a coat. She loves the snow, though.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@BinaryMan
Worthless how? Job related?

I completely disagree with you. You gain a lot from studying literature in Denmark.

Journalism here is shit though, but that seems to be the case for America as well.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@PurpleCharger
Don't know why there's such a rumor. Dogs are usually not a problem here, most apartments allow dogs as far as I know.

And that sounds cool, you should defineately consider that. Immigration was a big topic last election and there it was mentioned on several occations that Denmark wants more Americans to come study/live in Denmark (contrary to middle-eastern countries).

I haven't seen snow since last february though. Odd as it is, we seem to get less and less snow each year.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@King_Martha

This sounds insightful but neglects the fact that one can gain the life experiences that supplement good writing as well as the aid of academic tools. It's not as if your life is over once you graduate. And it's especially not as if your life is not being lived (albeit it is to a usually lesser extent than one outside of it) while you're in Uni. I guess if you're arguing from a "it's a waste of money" aspect then maybe your philosophy makes sense? But I really think it depends on your type. I'm not "brilliant" but I love academia. I love writing essays and I love learning different theories and how to become a better reader and writer. And I learn a lot from studying on my own as well. It's all good fun really, not to mention the experiences I get and observations I make throughout daily life. Why have one and not both if you can afford it?

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Need_TLC

She's a medium-sized dog, if that matters. Would she be allowed at university with me if I went? Or stores (not grocery stores, I'd imagine)? I had planned to do search and rescue with her and since she was a tiny puppy (she's almost two now) she has gone absolutely everywhere with me. I couldn't imagine leaving her somewhere, as crazy as that sounds.

Also, would I have to learn Danish?

5mileys
5mileys

@Fuzzy_Logic
It doesn't matter which country you're studying it - it's worthless all the same because it doesn't impart any applicable knowledge or skills that couldn't be easily gained on your own while pursuing a meaningful education. As other user stated: it's basically just a giant book club.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Spamalot
Would she be allowed at university with me if I went?
Haha I'm not so sure about that. She probably would at RUC, but that's a hippie/marxist university. I'm not sure they would allow her at Copenhagen University or Southern Denmark. Also, it's likely easier to get admitted into Southern Denmark and RUC than Copenhagen.

I don't think they allow dogs in the super market no, but I'm not sure, I order all my groceries online and get them delivered.

I couldn't imagine leaving her somewhere, as crazy as that sounds.
Nah I get it. I know what it's like to be so connected with ones pet.

Also, would I have to learn Danish?
Honestly, no, I don't think so. All the foreign students I know don't speak it. However, I think you'll find yourself to be motivated to learn it once you live here. But all danes speak english. We have english classes from kindergarten and every dane watch american television. Elders speak it and all young people speaks english fluently.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Playboyize

I guess I can look into it more before I just give up and resign my life to being a plebeian forever despite wanting to go to college.

P.S. does it cost extra to have your groceries delivered and do they touch your food without gloves?

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Lunatick
It's all good fun
Why have one and not both if you can afford it?
Well, surfing and partying 24/7 for a few years is also good fun especially if you can afford it.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@5mileys
because it doesn't impart any applicable knowledge or skills that couldn't be easily gained on your own while pursuing a meaningful education

That goes for every education buddy. If you're at University to be taught then you belong in grad school. University just apply you with the necessary material, you have to educate yourself.

Also, how is it not applicable? Do you seriously think comparative literature is just about reading fiction all day long?
Further, how are you familiar with the structure of all literature studies worldwide?

Or are you just basing your assumptions on retard heuristics?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Spamalot
learn Danish
Just imagine you're a German with an extra chromosome and a severe speech impediment. That's basically Danish.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@PackManBrainlure
You should definitely do that, we have a socialist goverment so they'll try to make it as easy as possibe for you (if you're not middle-eastern).

It doesn't cost that much extra, about 1.42 usd. However, you do have to coordinate your food schedule for the entire week, which can be a burden for some.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@SniperWish
This.

Still, fuck you mate.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@5mileys
This literary autodidact meme needs to die

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Nude_Bikergirl
The only people that have a hard time being right-wing at uni are retards that get offended when the lecturer makes a joke about Trump or Brexit.

I don't care about that. What shits me are professors who construct courses around their historiographical bias, which almost always is leftist.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@BinaryMan

I coordinate everything in my life so this shouldn't be much of a challenge. I'll look into it like I said. Would distance learning also be an option or to get the assistance for learning I have to be in the country itself? I can see why since I'd be contributing to Denmark but I still have to ask.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Stupidasole
This.
Reading Dantes La Comedia does not make you a literature master.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Garbage Can Lid
I'm not sure. But I would asume they would want you to live in Denmark.
But take the bachelor in 3 years or the long run for the master in 5 and you can go straight home afterwards. There's no student debt.

farquit
farquit

@TalkBomber
That goes for every education buddy.
University just apply you with the necessary material, you have to educate yourself.
Maybe in pointless autofellatory disciplines like literature. Guidance and mentorship in intellectually demanding subjects with objective contribution and success criteria is on the other hand invaluable.
Do you seriously think comparative literature is just about reading fiction all day long?
It pretty much is. Critical literary analysis isn't some complex skill that requires years of education or any ingenuity for that matter.

takes2long
takes2long

@Lord_Tryzalot
Reading Dantes La Comedia does not make you a literature master.
Neither does a degree in literature. That's the point.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@farquit
@takes2long
Based on what? You obviously know nothing about neither literature or the educational system.

If you need guidance and mentorship and can't learn on your own, then you're too autistic for University anyways.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@King_Martha
Fair warning OP, a degree from any euro uni outside of Oxford/Cambridge isn't worth much

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@SniperGod
Based on my experience and observations made in one of the best universities on the continent. You don't have to get mad, user. Nobody judges you here for wasting years on wank. Being dishonest with yourself is harmful however.
If you need guidance and mentorship and can't learn on your own, then you're too autistic for University anyways.
Yes, indeed, I am being highly autistic when suggesting universities might be educational institutions and not just libraries with certification centres attached. You shouldn't engage in discussion of unis if you attend a factory school, sweetcheeks.

Inmate
Inmate

@Crazy_Nice
you went to some shitty euro school that no one has heard of didn't you

Firespawn
Firespawn

Honestly, what is the value of an Ivy League degree anymore? If you don't get a job or other position handed to you on a silver platter from networking, and you have no intention of making a career from pure academia, does it impress anybody?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Firespawn
whats the value of this thing, aside from all these valuable things
rly makes u think

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Nude_Bikergirl

when the lecturer makes a joke about Trump or Brexit.

That is actually triggering, though. Not because I am particularly fond of Trump or Brexit, but because it's so inane. It's pretty sad how simpletons can make it so far within academia.

TechHater
TechHater

@PurpleCharger
"American" staffordshire terrier is unfortunately on the list of banned dog breeds in Denmark. You will not be able to bring your dog (unless it's a mix of staffordshire and a non-banned breed): https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbudte_hunderacer

@Need_TLC
Dane here, literally never heard any politician say they want more Americans to come to Denmark.

@Fuzzy_Logic
SDU is famous for their comparative literature programme (possibly because the programme requires students to read literature in German and French as opposed to just English and Scandinavian), but AFAIK the other unis lead to nothing but unemployment.

@Spamalot
A few majors are taught entirely in English, but none of them are related to literature AFAIK. If you want to enter a programme taught in Danish you would need to learn the language before enrolment.

@BinaryMan
FFS you dumbass idiot, Denmark is not socialist. Even if the Social Democrats were considered socialist, we still have a right-winged government ATM.

@Raving_Cute
Or maybe you don't notice the right-winged biases because you agree with them.

@King_Martha
No matter where you live, it's tough to get a job with a foreign degree and no experience. It would be much better to stay and work at least for a year after leaving uni.

@Poker_Star
This only applies to EU-citizens (and possibly Norwegians and Swiss people). Not only are non-EU citizens not qualified to get SU, they have to pay tuition to study (40-45 thousand kroner per year, IIRC).

5mileys
5mileys

I'm studying a humanities degree at Oxford at the moment. I would say the main benefit is the rigorous work load, encouragement of independent engagement with your subject, and being surrounded by people who are willing to have academic conversations with.
Most of those things can exist outside of the institution if you have a good library and self discipline. If you go to a Russel group I'm sure you can find a group of friends who are as interesting as you are, and if you post on lit you're probably on the right track to having the Oxford mindset.
In short you'll regret it either way but Oxbridge isn't a substitute for a good attitude.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@TechHater
Or maybe you don't notice the right-winged biases because you agree with them.

Like what?

Methshot
Methshot

Tfw studying an English degree at a shitty uni and still only barely getting by, despite doing tons of work.
Am I retarded?

cum2soon
cum2soon

@TechHater
"American" staffordshire terrier is unfortunately on the list of banned dog breeds in Denmark. You will not be able to bring your dog (unless it's a mix of staffordshire and a non-banned breed): https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbudte_hunderacer

Depressing. She is mixed with labrador but I won't even chance it now. Guess I'm doomed to retardation here in America.

eGremlin
eGremlin

Art and History major at a top lib arts college
feels GOOD
@Methshot
struggling at a shitty uni
Yeah actually. What kept you from going to a sub-30% acceptance rate college with great financial aid?

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@5mileys
I studied in philosophy and got a job in wall street 6 months in as a researcher. So uh no.

The problem is in the US if you don't go to a top school they are going to think you are stupid no matter what you study. That's mostly because HR departments are filled with morons.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@TreeEater
Thanks for reminding me of better days, OP.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Gigastrength
ywn

Supergrass
Supergrass

I've got an Arts degree from an elite Australian university.

I think it was worth it.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@haveahappyday

And then you move on. Once you’re gone it’s just in the past anyway. The thing I actually miss about Cambridge (I was part of an international programme there) was that all of fellow students were so much more knowledgeable about everything than regular people. (By regular people I also mean people from most American universities, who don't know much about anything.) I made my best friend there because I was reading This Side of Paradise on a bench and we started talking about it. It was strange to be in an environment where if I started talking about any author almost everyone immediately knew what I was talking about, had read what I was talking about, and could help me out with my reasoning of it.

I did have one friend at my time there who was based at Pembroke who didn't have any sort of literary background—he's in medical school now—and so we kind of gave him shit for it. Weirdly he had actually been assigned Tom Hughes' old dorm room. I once vandalized his room by slapping pieces of cheese of cheese to the room's wood pillars and various surfaces and he never forgave me. (I think he was supposed to travel to Oslo early the morning of something after I did it, so it stressed him out. Oh well.)

I ended up getting a girlfriend there (she was in Pembroke, I was in King's) and we're still together 4 years later, so I like to think that the experience didn't pass completely without consequence.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Supergrass
elite
australian
ground control to major kek

WebTool
WebTool

@Burnblaze
t. Euro with no top 50 uni in his country

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Deadlyinx
tfw I went to a highschool called King's College in New Zealand, and people always assume I'm talking about Cambridge

An unusual feel for sure but people assume I'm a snob either way

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@TreeEater
@Firespawn
This is why you set up a job or the kindling for an academic/research career whilst still in university. That's what it's for: opportunities and connections.

takes2long
takes2long

@Crazy_Nice
You obviously didn't go to Oxford or Cambridge

Illusionz
Illusionz

@TreeEater
depends on what you're looking for.
A First/2:1 is what really matters at the moment if you just want to do mindless office work or sales or something.
I'd say there are maybe 6 unis in the UK apart from Oxbridge which are respected around the world for literature.

RavySnake
RavySnake

tfw japanese degree in brazil

I think i'll starving.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@5mileys
What advice would you give to a humanities student who is gonna go to a non Russel group uni because of shorty life choices. Is there any hope of finding anyone like me or should I just spend my hours on Veeky Forums and /his/?

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

As a student at Oxford, I'd say that the best thing about Oxbridge is the people you're surrounded with. I've met so many people I've been waiting my entire life to meet - who I can relate to. Also good being around people who are successful and will be successful, in terms of networking.

Other people's success rubs of on you, as I'm learning. I've only been at Oxford for a term. I come from a normal state school background with uneducated parents. Meeting Etonians, and students from other big private schools with really well-educated parents, this has a very positive effect on you.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@eGremlin
My parents beat me until I agreed to go to uni. I have nothing but regrets.

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