>>10567910

the base of his project is mythological and religious so you might as well drop everything that comes out of his mouth if you want to drop that part

Peterson was an alcoholic in his 20s and turned back to Christianity like every other degenerate does when degeneracy stops being fun

he is not christian though, so that makes no sense

Well religious scientists always add disclaimers and shit about God to their work, but if you can filter out the facts, you can still learn something useful.

Jung's work is littered with religious crap but it's still seminal psychology.

full retarded article without paywall where?

>being this new
archive.fo/SjXdX

just archive any paywall article with some archiver and they can 99% of the time read it

well, that was weak, the guy barely says anything beyond citing a few of the grandstanding memersonian chapter titles and trying to make fun of them without mentioning anything about the actual content of the book

also the part where he criticizes the appeal to tradition by pointing its lack of "originality" was kind of funny

I wouldn't worry.

>Peterson has a knack for penning sentences that sound like deep wisdom at first glance but vanish into puffs of pseudo-profundity if you give them more than a second’s thought. Consider these: “Our eyes are always pointing at things we are interested in approaching, or investigating, or looking at, or having”; “In Paradise, everyone speaks the truth. That is what makes it Paradise.” It is no defence to say there are truths here clumsily expressed: rule 10 is “Be precise in your speech”.

What exactly is wrong with how Peterson wrote these sentences? Even if he could re-phrase something, part of the art of writing is making stylistic choices. If you re-worded Meditations to cliff-notes tier writing, it would lose all of its profundity, it would sound dry, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as influential. Its like the critic forgot about what the genre and target audience of this book is. Its entirely appropriate to write in a more florid style for this genre.

It really sucks how every reviewer and critic of Peterson keeps trying to tie him in with right wing politics and the political sphere. He needs to try and position himself as a non-partisan observer, and not as one with allegiance to the right, as he is increasingly doing.

It's written by Julian Baggini a real philosopher

that's fine but the article was very weak, it was just the author giving the impression he gets from memerson that makes him feel icky and very little analysis of anything said in the book

Good post I hope it's not a pasta

I know and care very little about Peterson, and haven't read his book, but I'm pretty sure
>Peterson, a Christian
Not true.
>assault on liberal values
Peterson, a liberal.
>Our eyes are always pointing at things we are interested in approaching, or investigating, or looking at, or having
Is literal, no? In which case it's pretty precise. I'm sure I once heard him say this in the context of using eye movements to know what other humans want.

> no Spanish names like "el goblino" or "la creatura"

Disappointed.

>Peterson peddles a kind of academic populism in which the philosophies of Heidegger and Kierkegaard are drafted in to support the will of the people and the wisdom of tradition. No one trying to understand how to live should read this book. Anyone interested in the growing assault on liberal values, however, should study it with fear and trembling.

Why are they so scared about this book?

to be fair, I don't know many "philosophers" and even "psychologists" that don't mainly speak in trusims, direct observations, tautologies, and platitudes to either set up an argument or point or use them to make a point.

people just hate him because while he appears to want to help the world, it seems there's a current of disingeniousness, sophistry, and new age spirituality and self-help guru.

I see him more as a sociological psychologist that has spent too much time on Veeky Forums

go to bed Jordan Petersen

Wow, how will Peterson ever recover? When I wipe my ass I have to briefly look at the toilet paper. Peterson said my eyes ALWAYS look at what they're interested in, but I'm NOT interested in toilet paper or shit, SO he is a LIAR. We can all go home and start a hormone replacement regimen now.

>where he criticizes the appeal to tradition by pointing its lack of "originality" was kind of funny
How is it even possible for people to be so devoid of self-awareness? I genuinely find it hard to believe this person exists....

Wait a minute, Peterson has his own planet?
>using an extremely overly literal interpretation of a turn of phrase while yourself employing even less literal expressions
Can leftists even go 1 sentence without contradicting or undermining themselves?

>Peterson, a liberal
He literally isn't
>inb4 classical liberal
Not even that. He's just another "American Libertarian" without much of value to offer.

>All these butthurt petersonfags ITT
Hilarious

>”Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don’t.” In practice, he often dismisses people with opposing views with barely concealed contempt.
If the person isn’t able to respond to criticism then they don’t know something that you don’t. The whole point of debating is the practice of forcing your opponent to express their knowledge that which you may not know in order to defend their points, so that both sides may emerge with broader perspectives.

>The whole point of debating is the practice of forcing your opponent to express their knowledge that which you may not know in order to defend their points, so that both sides may emerge with broader perspectives.
if you truly believe this you're dumb as fuck
the point of debate is dominating your opponent, nothing more, nothing less

this true

Because they are afraid of people waking up to the fact that the worldview they inherited from their boomer parents is absolute dog shit.

t. sophist

I think fear and trembling was a nod to the book that soren wrote that touches on a lot of themes that petersen also talks about.

He calls himself a British Classical Liberal, in what way is he an American Liberal because there is some confusion to the term liberal and how its used in contemporary american politics (i.e. PJW-tier activism)

>I think fear and trembling was a nod to the book that soren wrote that touches on a lot of themes that petersen also talks about.

I noticed that but its confusing, who here stands for Abraham

>a British Classical Liberal

That's basically a Libertarain as he said. These were the people who advocated Malthusian disasters and resisted restrictions on child labor

>paywall

its "basically" a libertarian but there are important distinctions which require us to have the distinction.

Classical enlightenment liberal values, what is contemporarily known as classical liberalism, is not a thought school Peterson subscribes to. He's just an "American Libertarian" or Randist if you prefer that term with heavier flavor of nationalism.

But he's not a randist, that would make him an objectivist. His views are much more steeped in history

>This is not the only time Peterson breaks his own rules. He sounds charming when advocating the principle of charity: “Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don’t.” In practice, he often dismisses people with opposing views with barely concealed contempt. This is particularly noticeable when he talks about religion. Peterson, a Christian, doesn’t just say atheists are wrong, but that they are wrong to even think they are atheists. Those who think otherwise “don’t understand anything. You didn’t even know that you were blind.”

That's great an all, but you are being baited into wanting to have pointless debates that gain nothing. So Petersen is a Christian. If you spend time actually listening to the things he preaches and the quality of the arguments he makes (not on whether God exists, but what we can learn from teachings in the bible that are backed up by scientific study) you will see that a man's faith is irrelevant to what they can learn to live a wholesome life.

He barely ever pushes for his own religion at all. You are diverting the conversation around him entirely into

>B-but he's not an atheist and that is entirely relevant to anything we can learn from him!

Quit wasting people's time.

woke

As an American, I agree with most of your post.

However,

>Their 'culture' is a fabrication made by Hollywood Jews to entice their youth with cowboy and soldier genres to serve their military industrial complex to work and die for Israel. 'Tradition' for them is stuffing themselves to the gullet with high-fat high-sugar foods and securing some shitty office 9-5 office or manual labor job enough to afford healthcare for their heart surgeries and medication.
It's very clear YOUR opinion about Americans is impersonal, uneducated, and from overseas. Overseas opinions about Americans from people who have not had any direct contact with Americans are just as worthy of instant dismissal because they are just as useless and inaccurate about reality. America has been a cultural powerhouse for centuries, and continues to be to this day.

Well, he must be a worthless philosopher if he seriously thinks a meme like Peterson is a threat to liberal values.

America is a cultural baby. Thats why third rate cliche cowboys like McCarthy are even considered good.

If you want to experience what it is like to be a nonAmerican imagine an obnoxious 8 year old screaming his opinions at you incessantly through expensive enormous speakers at max volume that drowns out everything including your own thoughts.

Just because their different way of reaching to same conclusion differs doesn't make end product different. Would you also say real communism has never been tried? JP sure likes to sperg out on this point. Also analyze what Peterson says through an economic lens also, since Peterson very much intentionally invites those criticism

>America is a cultural baby.
It is. That doesn't mean America hasn't generated most of the world's greatest art for the past century.

Christianity is the ultimate degeneracy and I am fucking sick of seeing people shill it here

Degeneracy from what? You're not one of those neo-pagans are you?

That would explain why its so shit.

He's Canadian, dipshit.

Let me guess, you're a pagan primitivist?

To become such a cultural powerhouse in such short time does come with problems, yes. The most important of which is the ressentiment that grows towards it from the outside.

Youre confusing culture for capital.

Go to bed Varg

This is exactly the type of thing n armchair critic living in America would say.

i hate peterson but what does this have to do with Veeky Forums. there's an actual Veeky Forums thread over here

Do you think americans seriously know the difference? Whenever they strike luck with something creating interesting (be it abstract painting, postmodern literature, the modern blockbuster or videogames) they immediately start to mass-produce and throw money at it until it necessarily becomes shit.
Never has a culture been so obsessed with novelty and production as the american post 20th century, they don't realize there's pleasure in contemplating the world, their only drive is to acquire more and more of it without any clear goal. Almost like a hive, only instead of a queen they have muh manifest destiny or whatever.

You think I'm confusing the two because your understanding of American culture is extremely narrow since you haven't had any direct experience with any of it before. Your belief that there are no traditions held up in America is indicative that you're deeply uneducated about America or just don't understand it because you're trying to make sense of it through a foreign lens from a distance. I recommend you actually do some research into American made products.

How does a man feel he's gained ANYTHING from female emancipation?

>Euros criticize Americans for having no history essentially
>Euros derive this condescending position from the 300 years that a handful of guys did great things
>Don't see how gay it is to take credit for something they never came close to doing themselves
>Have such fragile egos that while their own continent is decaying spectacularly they can only talk shit about their younger brother who went on to be more successful
It's okay Europe, you'll always be the better looking brother at least

and you are simply ignorant of what America is. Simply their philosophy behind their constitution is something to cherish as unique piece of culture.

Then again, we are in Veeky Forums and you are with 99% certainty a commie so, into the helicopter you go.

It's ironic that you would say this considering your country is having a chimp out because muh race. What is "race" if not a way for faggots who never did squat to feel part of a continuum of people who did?
Also, since you mentioned it, it's also rich that you'd say that while Thomas Edison and the Wright Brothers (and that's from the top of my head) are hailed as heroes for inventing shit they didn't. Even your history is a bought out, spectacular thing.

>Americans pride themselves on being a new and unique culture in the world
>all of a sudden the conservatives turn fascist and want to eradicate all "non-white" people out of their country
>while promoting European culture and white supremacy
what did Americans mean by this?

>What is "race" if not a way for faggots who never did squat to feel part of a continuum of people who did?

Imagine actually believing this. Race is a description of a common attitude and mode of being, an underlying life philosophy essentially

>What is "race"

youtube.com/watch?v=KK-0DbOG3zk

>chimp out because muh race
not really, America is very big and very white and very spread out. Those things only exist on the internet.

>Thomas Edison and the Wright Brothers (and that's from the top of my head) are hailed as heroes for inventing shit they didn't. Even your history is a bought out, spectacular thing.
They did ininte those things. Youre just a typical overly emotional europoor socialist whos entire world view is centered around spiteful and meaningless hatred of americans. Keep importing muslims, stubbornly pushing forth socialist ideals, and rotting away while cursing the world and reality itself for telling you how stupid and pathetic you are

the people you are talking about deride European culture and intellectualism and think of it a pseud jargon. They want to return America back to its hard working protestant roots

>Europeanised Americans and Americanised Europeans think they are very different
>both are eye-rollers who either watch netflix or look down on those who do
>both share the same vocabulary of stock insults and phrases that they deploy here, the forum they all use

>Because the average American "thinker" is the ultimate armchair philosopher.
yeah, as if still sucking off the same tired pseudo intellectual post war marxist (who only used philsophy in the same way a rockstar uses music, in order to sleep with women) is actual philosophy.

>What is Race.
It's when you shit in your hand and make part of London the tuberculosis capital of Western Europe, LOL.

>"you're overly emotional and angry"
>posts an inane emotional comment without any argument or form
calm down bro you're gonna have a stroke

I didnt say anything about tradition. Your final sentence calling American culture "products" is precisely correct.

>no you are!
Im not the one pretending the Wright brothers didnt invent the airplane because Im some brainwashed clueless pleb. Europeans are emotional morons who blame their failures on the american boogeyman

I figured you were the author of the original post I replied to, who wrote:

>'Tradition' for them is stuffing themselves to the gullet with high-fat high-sugar foods and securing some shitty office 9-5 office or manual labor job enough to afford healthcare for their heart surgeries and medication.

i.e. Americans do not have any traditions beyond this, which is deeply false.

>Your final sentence calling American culture "products" is precisely correct.

Correct about what, exactly?

You just affirmed "they invented those things" despite logic and evidence pointing to the contrary and started to ramble about muh muslims or whatever, so please clam down

I didn't even talked about "white" race, but "muh race" is the main factor in 9 out of 10 american chimp outs, be them white, asian, black or whatever.

>despite logic and evidence pointing to the contrary
non exist. If you think modern airplanes are not based on the wright brothers work, or if you think some europoor making a glider is the same thing as what the wright brothers did, then you are just a stupid person user. I want you to tell me how far the wright brothers plane flew vs what ever other meme glider you think was "da real first airplane!" Also, was the wright brothers plane pushed off a tall ledge or did it take off from the ground?

but nothing about american imperialism is a boogeyman. there are legitimate complaints there, of a selfish and greedy country that became so big and bloated, that it started to devour the whole world to satisfy its endless greed.

Not europoor. What the Wright brothers did was mix a catapult and a man lifting kite, it had no means of self propulsion /lifting like an actual PLANE.

>American imperialism
meme buzzword. I bet you think bin Laden was a poor victim of circumstance as well. I bet youre about to post that stupid newspaper article about him to try and make some smug retarded point

>complaining about greed
What a good Christian you are. You aren't even among the good Europeans.

>not answering any of my questions
The Wright flyer was the first powered aircraft user. Also, the Wright flyer actually WORKED

Powered by a fucking catapult. If what the Wright brothers did was a plane, then the chinese invented it. Now, how does the fucking plane in the picture doesn't work, considering it's pictured FLYING?

yes

>catapult.
literally irrelevent. First powered aircraft. It actually worked, and you are continuining to ignore my questions about how far it flew

also, the picture you posted was a plan from 1906. The Wright Flyer is from 1903. See what I mean about your petty hatred rotting your brain user?

Saved

>the better looking brother at least
lol, we are not better looking

who are the "good" Europeans?

I think you missed the point

The conquerors and artists who lacked the Christian sentiment.

>yadayadayada
>JEWS

Into the trash it goes.

See, all of this could be avoided if at some point some other country in the world aspired to anything resembling cultural or intellectual relevancy. Yet the entire world is perfectly content to have its culture defined by the non-entity that is America, the winner by default in absence of a challenger.

conquering and killing people might've been seen as "good" in the past but it's absolutely not nowadays. Because it would lead to a nuclear war. The old "might makes right" mindset is pretty fucking retarded and we need to move away from that

Do what the priest says, not what the priest does.

Man-lifting kites were powered by wind, your argument is irrelevant.
Europe needed that american steel money for rebuilding, the rest of America is too poor or too unequipped (or Canada) to do anything against the US, a lot of times precisely thanks to US (or English) intervention.