White collar crime

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

Why the fuck does White Collar crime have such low penalties while being by far the most lucrative?

Sell drugs
Get like 5 years because of mandatory sentencing minimums

Rob a gas station/bank with a weapon
Literally 10 years in prison for stealing $1000-3000 AT MOST

Commit financial crimes and steal $10million+
Maybe 3-5 years if you even get caught and you get into a comfy minimum security prison where you read books all day and probably get out in half the time for good behavior

Even incredibly low-tier and risky shit like carding makes insane amounts of money and is MUCH safer than just about any other crime. Why is this?

All urls found in this thread:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35739377
whereismyname
whereismyname

Because the people most likely to do massive white collar crime are the same people that move in the same circles as the law makers and the upper echelons of society.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@New_Cliche
not killing anyone or being arrested with weapons generally helps

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@New_Cliche
I'm guessing the people who embezzle don't have to pistol whip their victims and make them shit themselves.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@New_Cliche
Less people are able to commit white collar crime because you need a high position in a company to do anything worthwhile most of the time.

Anyone can rob a gas station or sell drugs, so a stricter punishment is needed to keep everyone from doing that.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@whereismyname
@Raving_Cute
But I'm saying even shit like credit card fraud for example, you read some news stories of it and people are making like $10,000/month and they're dropouts... and then after like several years of doing this they get caught and go to prison for two years or something.

Why the fuck do physical robberies still occur when you can make so much more money, with lower punishments and less risk?

girlDog
girlDog

@Harmless_Venom
niggers don't have high enough IQ for these

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Harmless_Venom
Because the people doing the physical robberies are dip shits. Any kind of online/credit card crime takes a bit of technical know how.

On a side note, do you think you could just do the carding etc for a year or two, just long enough to set yourself up and then quit. Or you think that everyone just gets greedy and they only stop once caught?

likme
likme

@girlDog
guess you're right

But even people with downs syndrome can buy info from Russians and use it...

Evilember
Evilember

@iluvmen
Any kind of online/credit card crime takes a bit of technical know how

Not really...

I've been reading about this stuff for a while and it seems like only the TOP TOP guys are the actual geniuses who do everything important, they have like 0% risk because they're sitting in Russia and only selling shit instead of using it.

On a side note, do you think you could just do the carding etc for a year or two, just long enough to set yourself up and then quit. Or you think that everyone just gets greedy and they only stop once caught?

Is this a rhetorical question or are you asking me?

I'm not sure, I guess the kinds of people it would attract would get greedy and only stop after going to prison.
The people who would do this stuff generally aren't the kinds of people who would launder the money and then invest it into the stock market, they would probably blow it all on Cocaine, strippers and cars. And needless to say I would assume that making such easy money, for someone who doesn't really have much talents or skills in any other field would be very addicting.

Someone who's a dropout and is now making 6 figures barely "working" probably wouldn't just call it quits and stop

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Evilember
Yes, the evolution of crimeware as a service CaaS is evolving rapidly. And yes much is coming from Russia where talented educated developers are stuggling to find legit work, so the lure to malware/cryptolocker development is strong. These gangs have tech support and on demand packages etc. It really is becoming seriously organised.

I guess it depends on the individual, if you can't get a normal job then yes you would probably be stuck doing it until you make enough to retire or you get caught. But if you had a normal job, and could do this as a sideline! Then i think it might be possible to squirrel away enough and step out the of the game cleanly. I often wonder if there is less risk taking 100 from 1000 people or 100,000 from one person?

The stats on cybercrime as not that great because many people don't report it. Many companies don't want to report it.
I guess that if you choose to be a career criminal in these types of fields the only really worry you is getting caught. But if you think you can handle prison and not end up being someones bitch, then being in prison does lend itself to some excellent networking opportunities.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Raving_Cute
But if you had a normal job, and could do this as a sideline! Then i think it might be possible to squirrel away enough and step out the of the game cleanly.

Well yeah, there's probably some very smart people who are studying in University or have a legitimate job and just do some of this shit cleanly and intelligently to earn themselves some extra dough to start a business for example. Like they're not all drug addicts who crash cars and fuck strippers...

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Raving_Cute
10 cents of 1.000.000 people taken over the span of months would probably be the safest bet

Inmate
Inmate

@New_Cliche
if we need to explain this to you, you shouldnt be here kid. go back to school little shit.

Techpill
Techpill

@Bidwell
That would take a huge amount of planning and would have to be automated in some fashion in order to hit 1,000,000. you couldn't do that manually.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Inmate
Sorry dad

guess I'll go back to my homework now :( we're learning fractions and decimals. Why do you never spend time or help me?

Booteefool
Booteefool

bump

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@New_Cliche
Because the legal system was bought and paid for by the rich, so they swing their money around and can do what they want.

The world's corrupt, the deck is stacked against those not born into power and wealth, and you have to be a shitty person to get anywhere. Just learn to accept it.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Raving_Cute

being in prison does lend itself to some excellent networking opportunities

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@kizzmybutt
Sarcasm?

Techpill
Techpill

bump

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Evilember
top kek that face always makes me laugh

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@New_Cliche

Nepotism and Racism.

Seriously.

But you could also argue the violence element. Someone with a gun to another persons face is a lot more dangerous than a theiving financial advisor.

but OP the people have heard your complaints and the IRS and Fed have gotten much tougher. I know a lawyer who 4 years ago defended a CEO that got life in prison for his fraud charges.

girlDog
girlDog

@Sir_Gallonhead
Nepotism

What about when the person did it all alone?

Racism

Do white people somehow get lower sentences for robbery?

takes2long
takes2long

I wonder how one even commits these crimes..

w8t4u
w8t4u

Bump

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@girlDog

Do white people somehow get lower sentences for robbery?

Actually yes

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Burnblaze
Is that related to them being White or is it correlated more with Black people tending to be unrepenting criminals with a mile long rap sheet and generally at least several past convictions on their record?

The latter is not something I wouldn't believe, to be honest just from my experience of meeting them

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Burnblaze

Is this another verstion of the woman wage gap meme?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@ZeroReborn
It has to do with poverty. The vast majority of blacks are poor and can not afford a good lawyer. When they are poor they often also find them selfs being repeat criminals. If you were to compare blacks and whites of the same income level im sure there would be less of a diffetence.

TechHater
TechHater

@CouchChiller
It has to do with poverty.

That's not racism though, that's just being poor.

If you were to compare blacks and whites of the same income level im sure there would be less of a diffetence

I would have to disagree.

Look at any area with a black majority. It is universally filled with crime and poverty. I think black people simply have lower IQs and more of an inclination to getting emotional - Ie getting violent.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@girlDog

Statistically I'd say they do.

Juries don't like the look of a dirty hood nigger and immediately want to throw the book at him.

Psychological studies back this up as well.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Raving_Cute
Juries don't like the look of a dirty hood nigger and immediately want to throw the book at him

Well of course.

Who would you rather sentence to more time, and how is a bigger detriment to society?

Some White businessman who has a bachelors and possibly a master's degree, has two kids, owns a house, has paid taxes for the last 20 years of his life( A LOT MORE TAXES than he has used from society ), has a wife, contributes a lot to the economy, has good job prospects, has a good future, perfect guy with dozens of good references from everyone who knows him...

who just so happened to steal maybe a few $100,000 or embezzled some funds here or there.

OR, the nigger who has been on some sort of income assistance for his entire life, his dad is in prison, his mom has 8 kids and is a welfare leech, he dropped out of school, he has gotten suspended from school dozens of times for smoking weed and fighting, he has no degree - fuck, he doesn't even have a GED, has not held stable employment for over a year, can't pass a drug test, can't even speak normal English without saying "shiet", "bitch", "fug" and "nigga" and he has had numerous chances and been in jail dozens of times and never seems to learn from his mistakes?

iluvmen
iluvmen

Bump

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

Bump

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Harmless_Venom
To commit the most lucrative white collar crimes, you have to be in a position where you're trusted with the money. The average methhead or gangbanger that robs 7/11's isn't able to get in such a position. You need to be rather smart to get hired on wallstreet, climb the corporate ladder, or start a successful enough company.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@King_Martha
I would sentence the first guy to life without parole if I could.
The first guy had all the opportunity, and more to lose, and he still stole.
Not only that, but he abused a position of trust.
Perhaps he does a lot of other shit nobody knows about, and just got caught for this. If he can justify this, who knows?
Being in a position of trust allows people like that to use their influence, and some abuse it.

The second guy?
You said the key elements that stood out to me -
dad in prison
mom on welfare

Where do you expect his positive role model to come from?
I'm not saying it cannot be overcome or it's an excuse.
It's just a lot harder.

Let’s see how well the 'perfect guys' kids turn out, when...
daddy is in prison
mom is on welfare
house repossessed and auctioned to recoup embezzled monies under proceeds of crime act
they have to relocate to a rougher neighborhood where the kids get into fights
kids get suspended
they drop out of school
they learn more street slang to fit in
they smoke weed to fit in
they sell some weed to fit in
maybe they don't steal like daddy, but perhaps handle stolen goods or get arrested for being a lookout or accessory to a crime
they go to jail
get out on parole
smoke weed because it's a habit now
fail drug test
busted back to prison for parole violation
rinse and repeat

There is much talk about the 'impact' of the crime.
'it's scary being robbed or assaulted!'
'Many suffer depression and lasting effects, etc'
Yeah, that's true.
But what is not often talked about is the 'impact' of some guy you knew, or thought was respectable, stealing money from you behind your back, possibly over years.
What's the 'victim impact' of somebody getting their life savings ripped off, only for the perpetrator to get a cushy sentence?
and make no mistake, guy number one is going for big bucks, not your wallet or hubcaps.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Bidwell
Point was that there's a big difference between how the two act and appear to others.

The guy who has a wife, two kids and has been paying taxes for 20 years of his life is A LOT more valuable to society than some criminal who has done nothing besides sell weed and get into fights.

It's just a case of who's more valuable to society and how's more likely to be rehabilitated.

The guy who has committed some fraud can be rehabilitated a lot easier than the guy who murdered a child in cold blood and then raped them.

Let’s see how well the 'perfect guys' kids turn out, when...

Not the point.

Point is that in the case of the first guy, the lawyer and the judge can make the argument that "Well you see... This guy is a model citizen in every single aspect of his life except that he has committed some crime, for that reason I believe it would be in society's best interest to minimize his sentence to allow him to be rehabilitated and allowed back into regular society. He does not belong in a prison".

Versus.... The career petty criminal who HAS NOTHING, he has no education, no job prospects, fails drug tests, many previous offenses, etc. Who's more likely to reoffend? Who's more likely to cost society money? Who, truly, belongs in a prison?

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Fried_Sushi
you have to be in a position where you're trusted with the money.

Exactly, and they abused that trust.
After several credit crunches, we have seen how bankers and CEOs are just as staunch in their criminality as low level criminals.

Few will ever learn the error of their ways.
The only 'lesson' many of them seem to learn is how to lower their risk of getting caught.

Those who have a certain walk and talk only get more confident, and will be right back to trying to gain trust and influence to get into a position to do it again.

At least the lower level criminals mostly aren't lying to your face. They are not tricking you into investing $10k, they are stealing your wallet.

I agree the level of violence used should be a factor, but even a pickpocket or purse snatcher or car thief will often get more time than an embezzler, despite the level of violence being more or less equal.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Raving_Cute

It's funny that still in this day-in-age many believe it's from Russia.

This isn't the 80s goys.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@StonedTime
It literally is if you knew anything about the scene.

Majority of it comes from Russian forums by Russian authors, who have already been arrested.

Literally some of the most important and biggest players were Russians and as soon as they got arrested all of a sudden... guess what researchers noticed a massive dip - nearly to non-occurring levels of certain activities.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Playboyize
value to society

OK, let’s run with that.
#1 belongs in prison.

child rapist and murderer

That's a pretty strong example.
The nigger is raping kids and killing them now?

We were discussing a weed dealer as an example,
Which I would argue could contribute to society if he was allowed to sell said product without having to get a fucking degree in pharmacology, and could operated legitimately in a free market and pay tax.
How about that?

For thousands of years of history, he would have been considered no worse than a pharmacist or herbalist with possibly some anger management issues. (I'm not violent, but have been in many fights, if you are getting beaten up and fight back, it's a fight) a self-employed trader or pedlar of medicinal herbs.

What 'education' do you think he is likely to get in prison? More info on scams, crime tips, criminal contacts, a bit of networking perhaps?

I smoke weed. Erryday.
So, to me, and approximately 300 million people on the planet, at least, a weed dealer is very fucking valuable, and only a criminal for political reasons.
A political prisoner.

What's the difference between a legal weed seller, in a state-approved store, in certain states / countries, and a street dealer?

'society prepares the crime, the criminal commits it'

I don't know why you jumped to 'child rapist / killer' then reverted back to 'petty career criminal'

As for stealing, I think the amount taken needs to be considered too. Would you feel ok about getting the maximum sentence for theft for stealing a pen from work?

I would say they are both equally likely to offend, since crime is rarely a one-time deal, and many are opportunistic. The petty criminal has more opportunities, but less opportunity or skill to embezzle and launder.

not the point.

It's exactly the point, his upbringing and environment were a disadvantage.
If his kids had the same disadvantages,
They would be less likely to be successful.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Soft_member
That's a pretty strong example.
The nigger is raping kids and killing them now?

it was just hyperbole to illustrate some people can be better rehabilitated than others.

We were discussing a weed dealer as an example,
Which I would argue could contribute to society if he was allowed to sell said product without having to get a fucking degree in pharmacology, and could operated legitimately in a free market and pay tax.
How about that?

I think you're misunderstanding. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with marijuana but I was saying that (as an example) if that's his biggest business venture and the only thing he really knows to do he doesn't have much to offer society.

Anyways we're getting very off-topic.

i was simply saying that the differences in sentencing are likely due to the white collar perpetrator to be more educated and have more going for him in life so his lawyer can make the argument that he is an otherwise contributing member of society and the judge can feel comfortable releasing someone like that

It's exactly the point, his upbringing and environment were a disadvantage.
If his kids had the same disadvantages,
They would be less likely to be successful.

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter, what matters is the result.

You don't say "Well I guess Tyrone's dad is in prison and he had to live in Detroit... Eh he's had a tough life as is, lets cut him a break and let's chop 1/3rd of his sentence off for him".

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Soft_member
Why are you virtue signalling on an anonymous Sichuanese Wallpaper Committee?

askme
askme

@Harmless_Venom
I'm giving my opinion, I couldn't see any value in virtue signalling anonymously, and I don't know what 'value' you imply I am projecting.

girlDog
girlDog

@BunnyJinx

Mmmhmmm

Right...

Maker of bs is "Russian".
Nos maker is "Russian".
Beta def "Russian".

Zeus is russian.
Eye is russian.
BH is russian.

Well known names.

But it seems it's 3v3 though.

Just sayin' it's not hard to use a proxy, VPs, or rdp. Just cause' ips are russian/China; doesn't mean they're from there.

happy_sad
happy_sad

The answer is simple: rich white people get away with shit. Poor colored people don't.

Such is life.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@happy_sad
The answer is simple
stopped reading right there

w8t4u
w8t4u

@happy_sad

Being this stuck in time

We still on that white privilege bullshit?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@girlDog
Just sayin' it's not hard to use a proxy, VPs, or rdp. Just cause' ips are russian/China; doesn't mean they're from there

The sourcecode has Russian comments.

They operate on Russian forums

A lot of the malware specifically doesn't target Russia, etc. It definitely is overwhelmingly Russian

likme
likme

@Bidwell

has russian comments
must be russian

Dat logic.

But disregard what's said above that and go on about what I said about proxies. It's clear you're the one that's not in these scene, but simply a little researcher or analyst that feels there's a "connection".

Gtfo.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@likme
Malware authors are writing comments in other languages and not targeting Russia because they are actually from other countries that aren't Russia

kek.

let me guess, are all the Russian forums actually Anglos using translator to communicate and pretending to be Russian?

RumChicken
RumChicken

@New_Cliche
forgetting about bernie madoff
(outside of us) but in iran a billionaire recently got sentenced to death

DeathDog
DeathDog

@RumChicken
but in iran a billionaire recently got sentenced to death

Source? With that much money in Iran you'd think he'd be above the law...

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@DeathDog
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35739377

It's quite sad. I've actually visited Iran and seen a skyscraper he was trying to build however construction is completely halted and abandoned due to his arrest.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Playboyize

Yes son, all of them are.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@whereismyname
That and Americans worship the rich, especially the evil ones because they're even richer. Capitalism is like Islam in that respect, the bigger bastard you are, the more followers will blow themselves up for you.

5mileys
5mileys

@Lunatick
Cmon man.

it's well-known that most malware originates from Russia. Why are you even memeing about this?

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