So the reason Venezuela is doing so poorly compared to, say, Saudi Arabia is...

TreeEater
TreeEater

So the reason Venezuela is doing so poorly compared to, say, Saudi Arabia is because they pissed off the capitalist overseers, who have a monopoly of resource production expertise, with their talk of social welfare , right? How is this not sociopathic plutocrats holding human dignity hostage if we don't enrich them at our own expense? Is this why we in the US are waiting so long to deal with our infrastructure problems?

WebTool
WebTool

@TreeEater

Fuck, you got me good. If we kill the capitalists then it'll be REAL Communism! I swear!

Nojokur
Nojokur

@WebTool
Didn't say that. It's just a shame that you can have functional socialism as long as you pay lip service to the international rent-seekers, but the minute you actually talk about doing right by the common man, they use their undue influence to deny you access to even the most basic of outside expertise. We have to keep the masquerade going. There'll be hell to pay if anyone has to give up their 200ft yacht.

They'd rather sabotage a national economy and make millions of people suffer than let even a single case of an affluent and altruist government exist.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Nojokur

Making people live under socialism is worse than corporate corruption

RavySnake
RavySnake

@King_Martha
Doubtful.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@TreeEater

no, venezuela is fucked because they spent a lot more money than they actually have.

and no one who has a working brain would ever invest in the country - if you do, the government just expropriates everything to pay the bills that it has accumulated.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result: Happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result: Misery.

It's not a complicated concept, nor are the gods of math conspiring against anyone.

takes2long
takes2long

@TreeEater
When half the world was communist it was still shit op, stop being a faggot

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@TreeEater
Socialism doesnt work because capitalists wont let it
Wtf am I reading?

You do realize Saudi Arabia is a welfare state, right?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@TreeEater
You used a bunch of big words to get absolutely nowhere. Also, you're implying that government will better control everything than private entities. Essentially, pic related.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@TreeEater
venezuelan goverment made a lot of money with chavez, how they didnt thought of investing it in infrastructure while being fucking communists makes no sense whatsoever

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Stupidasole
I know, it's almost like communism doesn't work or something. Weird, right?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Lunatick
@BunnyJinx
Just give it one more chance, I think I've finally figured out the secret formula. Socialism really might work this time. I'm just gonna need all your profits.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Nojokur
@TreeEater
WHY DOES SOCIALISM NEED CAPITALISM TO FUNCTION? IF ALL SOCIALISTS ADOPT WORKED FOR FREE THEN EVERYTHING A SOCIALIST NEEDS WOULD BE FREE.

5mileys
5mileys

@Evil_kitten
actually its crazy how it fucks up rich countrys without any reasonable motive, at least with capitalism there is always some war or external factor

Bidwell
Bidwell

@5mileys
Socialism can't wage war because all their citizens are starving to death. socialism (cultural Marxism) undermines national pride so the citizens turn on each other.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@5mileys
Capitalists economies are usually at war with starved socialist countries because the socialist(*cultural Marxism) generally spreads beyond their borders in an attempt to spread the ideology..when the capitalist fights it off the socialist can play the victim.

happy_sad
happy_sad

Its like y'all didn't read marx and do the math or something, when he proved capitalism right beyond all reasonable doubt. Marx was arguing for the best distributive method for capital and how to best take capital from the wealthy. In the end the most efficient way is simply profiting off of them. thus the cycle continues.

Here's to Chavez the capitalist poorfag who cucked a wealthy nation and spent all their money.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@happy_sad
chavez couldnt have been communist because all communists are poor

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@TreeEater
Do you posses a shred of evidence to back up your claims?

Flameblow
Flameblow

@King_Martha
Again, Saudi Arabia.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Stupidasole
They tried. Just like OP said, the companies with expertise cockblocked them. Not because Venezuelan oil wouldn't make them money, but because they would have been supporting a country that advocated for a sustainable distribution of wealth across the classes. Sets a bad precedent, you see. Scandinavia is okay because its white people; the Saudis are okay because they pretend to be capitalist and anchor the West in the Middle East. if it's proven that a brown country, with the same support from the global brain trust as everyone else, can say, "We're socialist," and succeed, the whole house of cards comes down. So they stack the deck then report sensationally on the collapse so no one else gets any ideas.

FastChef
FastChef

@GoogleCat
Nice revisionist history. Venezuelan officials are corrupt as all hell and used the infrastructure money to line their friends' and families' pockets. Show us one case where Venezuela attempted to spend money on infrastructure and got blocked by ebil gorborashuns

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

socialist utopia with over reaching government fails
still blames capitalism

Can't make this shit up

Lunatick
Lunatick

@GoogleCat
companies with expertise cockblocked them

You mean all those companies they threw out and then took all their shit? Can't imagine why they didn't want to lend a free helping hand.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Nojokur
as long as you pay lip service to the international rent-seekers, but the minute you actually talk about doing right by the common man, they use their undue influence to deny you access to even the most basic of outside expertise. We have to keep the masquerade going. There'll be hell to pay if anyone has to give up their 200ft yacht.

We live in a society that revers ruthless individualism at the cost of our wider society, and economy in general.

What efficient action or effect does the yacht produce? Mild enjoyment for one or 5 people, at the cost of the lives of thousands.

@Stark_Naked
That is in reference to the USSR and government quotas on collective production, not Venezuela.

idontknow
idontknow

@Spazyfool
What the fuck kind of yacht do you own that takes the souls of thousands to make it float?

TreeEater
TreeEater

@GoogleCat

countless companies voluntarily refuse massive profits because they dont want poor brown people to have some money but didnt have a problem giving some brown people lots of money
Saudis arent brown although they are brown its a special case ok

In case you havent noticed, white countries are massive cucks that invite millinos of poor brown people to give them free welfare.
Socialism doesnt work, deal with it.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@GoogleCat

the reason capitalism doesn't work is because companies only care about profits over ethics and morals
The reason socialism didn't work is because the businesses that we bullied out of the market refused to take our money

If mental gymnastics are a real sport, this would get you a gold medal

@Spazyfool

This is bait

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Spazyfool
yachts kill thousands of people

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Emberburn
No. This is Utilitarian reasoning. Ethics and philosophy is based upon that, and deontology.

@idontknow
What the fuck kind of yacht do you own that takes the souls of thousands to make it float?

When you purchase a yacht, you have a choice. An ethically relevant choice. You can spend that £1,000,000 on a yacht, or you can spend it on a charity (of which i've donated, despite being poor myself) which saves the eyesight of someone for £25.

You have a choice of donating that money to save 40,000 people from losing their sight, or buying one yacht. Obviously you're not culpable for their deaths (or i'd be outside a yacht shop berating people 24/7), but you've still (deliberately or not) chosen to buy the yacht over the lives of those in need.

Food for thought. Especially on an individualist board as right-wing as this.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Ignoramus
Don't be flippant it only makes you look foolish. It's the choices you make which have effects on the world.

The selfishness of people kills (or prevents the death of) thouands of people.

askme
askme

@StrangeWizard
Please read Frederic Bastiat's the broken window pane.

If you spend a 1,000,000 bucks on a yacht, where do you think that money goes?
Does it just evaporate in thin air?
No, it goes to the boat builders who in turn use the money to feed themselves and take care of their children.
Let me ask you this are the lives of the x mount boat builders and their families are just as important as the x amount of people that a charity would help?

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Nojokur
Fuck the common man he is smelly dumb scum and would squander everything I have if he could.
Why would I want to do right by him?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@askme
If anything, an oil exporting country like Venezuela would benefit from more yachts

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@TreeEater

Venezuela's leaders have angered the US in the past.
Remember Hugo Chavez, who unironically believed that Bush Jr. was Satan and the US was the root of all evil?
And anyone is surprised, why Venezuela is doing so badly...
Obama administration is trying to win over former allies of Russia, especially the countries, which are buying Russian weapons.
Rapprochement with Vietnam, Iran, Cuba - you think this is just a coincidence? It's Obama, trying to cut off Russia's money supply and their political influence around the world. Some countries refuse to bow down (like venezuela, Libya or Syria) and they are being punished, so the whole world could see what happens if you anger the US.

takes2long
takes2long

@askme

Please read Frederic Bastiat's the broken window pane.

It's ironic you mention this, considering it supports my argument. The "gdp growth" from someone breaking then fixing a window is not invisible, but the actual benefit of it is nill. The benefit of a yacht (enjoyment from it) is minuscule compared to the benefits of spending it on charity.

The window adds to gdp, but not to the actual benefit of the economy, like a yacht (other than enjoyment)

investing in poor people actually help them (the benefit of sight itself) and the costs of doing that (surgeons, medical equipment etc), like boat-makers is paid for too.

No, it goes to the boat builders who in turn use the money to feed themselves and take care of their children.

Let me ask you this are the lives of the x mount boat builders and their families are just as important as the x amount of people that a charity would help?

Less as important because the poorest that are helped from charity rationally accomplishes more to benefit the economy (people's eyesight being retained) than income towards an already well cared for boat-builder.

Also, you're saying that the cost of the boat goes to employment. You're obviously correct.
So does the costs of what a charity will spend it on.

So, if we've established that the cost of anything ultimately goes to someone who was part of the production, then we can consider alone which is more beneficial: A yacht (which gives enjoyment) or 40,000 operations to save 40,000 people's eyesight.

The answer is so obvious as to not mention it.

farquit
farquit

@takes2long
The repaired window adds to gdp
Braking things and the fixing them does not create more wealth you obviously dont under stand the point of the broken window pane.

You are right to in regards to the fact that having 40,000 people have sight is more valuable then a yacht.

But lets get down to the under lying point here, you believe that you should have a say in how people spend their money.
If someone works hard and makes a lot of money are they not free to spend it how they like?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@farquit
GDP is not a measure of wealth its a measure of the economy

not knowing the difference

paying to fix a windowpane is a transfer of wealth, not a creation. It will still increase the GDP.

TechHater
TechHater

@Poker_Star
Your right my bad.
I get all riled up when a socialist believes that they are morally and ethically right.

Methnerd
Methnerd

No, Venezuela is in deep shit because of socialism and it's enablers, like you.

I'm from Brazil and even though we are not as bad we are enduring one of the worst political and economical crisis of all time, again, thanks to socialism.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@VisualMaster
Saudi Arabia is a quasi modernist state. Can we really classify one of the few absolute monarchies in the world in the same way as we would a modern "democracy"?

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Poker_Star
You are writing some pretty dumb shit, user.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Poker_Star
glass creates and cuts itself out of thin air
yachts kill people
This fucking thread

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Nojokur
to deny you access to even the most basic of outside expertise
Tinfoil hat "muh socialism only failed because everyone else wanted it to fail" excuses aside, you outright state that you need outside assistance to maintain a functional socialist society.
That is the fundamental issue with Socialism. Its unsustainable unless everyone has the same ideals, ideas and integrity. Its only successful when subsidized by an outside source much greater than itself, which is able to mask the shortcomings and overcome any corruption or outright laziness within the population.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@MPmaster
But they need the specialized expertise
Of all those oil companies
Who's projects they nationalized
Then told to GTFO
And ran them into the ground

If only those companies weren't so damned evil
And would just come back
Build a bunch of new shit
That they could then seize again
To float this stupid idea for a bit longer.

Evil damn capitalists trying to keep the poor shades of brown men down!

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@TechHater
I get all riled up when a socialist believes that they are morally and ethically right.

I'm perfectly calm user, and you seem to getting ahead of yourself.

@farquit
you believe that you should have a say in how people spend their money.
If someone works hard and makes a lot of money are they not free to spend it how they like?

Politically you have a very strong point and I nor many people here would disagree that for the most part we should have sovereignty over the money that you've earned in this (corrupted or uncorrupted,, you decide) economy.

What you've mentioned is a perfectly valid and true criticism of my position (utilitarianism)

Politically and philosophically most westerners would agree with you there but i'm talking economically alone here.

@PurpleCharger
You're welcome. By the same logic, any purchase that isn't necessary for individual and your family's survival is also 'letting die' rather than actually killing.

Some people, usually the right-wing see the difference hugely whilst others less so (whilst still admitting killing is worse)

Inmate
Inmate

@CouchChiller
Politically you have a very strong point and I nor many people here would disagree that for the most part we should have sovereignty over the money that you've earned in this (corrupted or uncorrupted,, you decide) economy.
So you agree that freedom and the power of choice are the best way to run a economy

If we are talking about pure economics here then you must not like minimum wage and tariffs?

likme
likme

Venezuela is more capitalist and less socialist than any NATO country

Emberfire
Emberfire

@likme
That's the dumbest post in this thread

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