Is Obamacare a massive Success or Failure?

Evilember
Evilember

I am just 23 years old and have not needed to ever worry about health insurance because my parents pay for mine. I know this isn't the place for politics but this is something that effects businesses and individuals' financial planning. Depending on who you ask Obamacare has either been a great success or a huge failure. So what do you guys think?

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/effect-of-wait-times-on-mortality-in-canada.pdf
farquit
farquit

Depends on who you ask. I made $45k last year and end up losing 1/4 of my income to Obamacare when everything was said and done. I've never met anyone who it worked out for, but I only know people who work for a living

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@farquit
if you already had health insurance it shouldn't have affected you.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

I think the 60-minutes segment on Obamacare nailed it.

The pros
poor people can be insured for free

The cons
The rich pay a little more tax
There is no cost containment whatsoever
This system actually makes the insurance companies and medical management groups even more powerful than they were before
All citizens are forced to have coverage or pay a tax penalty

That last part is some serious bullshit.

What Obama SHOULD have done was offer a government run health insurance alternative that was funded by the top 10% of earners and offered assistance to the bottom 30% of earners. But that shit would never ever fly, so Obama passed what he could pass.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Evilember
why did you upload a placeholder image nearly 3 mb in size, that's my question

takes2long
takes2long

@TurtleCat
it shouldn't have affected you
Holy shit, are you really this stupid?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@SomethingNew
literally have no pictures in the computer except my family, I should have just used the koala instead

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Bidwell
your family is plants?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Evilember
No. Obamacare is dumb because of the individual mandate. If someone doesn't want to get jewed on health care and would rather pay out of pocket instead of going through a sleezy insurance company, he should be allowed to without getting taxed 5% of his income. Also, small businesses are getting absolutely ripped to shreds in trying to provide health care for their employees to keep up with the market. All the while, insurance premiums continue to skyrocket with no end in sight.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Gigastrength
OK, his parents were plantfuckers, I'm not gonna judge.

@Evilember
a great success or a huge failure

Yes.

What's fail about it: Well, it's kind of expensive. And it does nothing to contain costs. (Insurance company wants to grow earnings at 30% YoY, but must pay 80% of premiums out in claims? Fine, we ask the hospital to make sure to charge us 30% more every year, hospital's only too glad to oblige!)

What's win about it: It's more expensive, but you're getting what you pay for. OK, right now you probably don't have cancer, or diabetes, or heart disease, but someday you will. In the pre-Obamacare days, the insurance company would charge you $100/month in premiums and if you got sick, would drop you. Then you were either uninsurable at any price ("O HAI THERE! You need $100,000 in chemo? Even at $1000/month, you're not gonna live the 8 years....) and, welp, you're dead.

Under ACA, you pay $300/month. For many of us, that's $200/month we'll never see again. But whether you pay $300/month for Bronze and a $5000 deductible ($3600+5000=UNDER 9000) or $700/month for Gold and a $500 deductible ($8400+500=UNDER 9000), your out-of-pocket maximums are gonna be about the same amount if you get sick.

If you're healthy, yeah, it sucks. But you will eventually become sick.

Every civilized nation has some form of single-payer. Their citizens pay less in tax than we do in premiums, and they tend to live longer. Maybe we don't have to go full Canada, but the present system benefits nobody except the insurance companies and the for-profit hospital chains.

And since this is Veeky Forums I'm pretty fucking grateful, because if you want a hearty chuckle, look at a 10-year chart of ANTM, HUM, etc... and look at it take off like a fucking rocket when the industry bought the law.

It's better for the patients than the previous system, but it sure as fuck wasn't designed to do anything other than subsidize the insurance industry, not the insured.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@VisualMaster
Your chart doesn't account for the fact that the US has more car accidents and more fat people than the rest of the world.

Further cons: premiums have increased every year. Obama's promise of people keeping their physicians was a lie. A bunch of people got their hours cut from full-time to part-time. A bunch of treatable illnesses become deadly in Canada due to the wait times. Europe has piggy backed off of American medical breakthroughs driven by profits. That's over. But the biggest problem is the part of the law that the Republicans called the "death panels." That part of the law will come into effect next year.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Fried_Sushi
A bunch of treatable illnesses become deadly in Canada due to the wait times
Oh yeah?

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Lunatick

Yeah. Wait times are up to 18.2 weeks in 2013. Read the conclusion from this Fraser Institute report.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/effect-of-wait-times-on-mortality-in-canada.pdf

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Gigastrength
Switched to my laptop* well okay that's the one picture that isn't my family, that and that picture of john taffer, and some sample pictures.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Fried_Sushi

Funny, I'd think the death panels were the insurance companies deciding on whether or not you get the transplant/treatment or not, but I digress.

(Europe piggybacking on our R&D: Not gonna argue this with you - we agree here. We overcharge our patients a fortune compared to the rest of the world, but we get a great biotech sector out of it. And it would still be awesome if we got shitheel monopolists like Shkreli and VHC - who don't actually do R&D - out of business.)

the US has more car accidents and more fat people than the rest of the world.
That's the part I can't figure out. We're the only country that, pre-Obamacare, *really fucking heavily* penalized obesity and other biomarkers of poor health status. And yet, we have more fat fucks per capita than anywhere. WTF, the market should have disincentivized that decades ago, yet it didn't. Dafuq? (Not debating you, just sincerely confused as to what the fuck happened because I can't think of a single reason why it would have worked that way.)

Evilember
Evilember

Three years a NEET and I still don't have Obamacare.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Gigastrength
kek'd

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Evilember
it's a success for the poor

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Snarelure
What penalties were there for obesity? I'm not aware of any.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@cum2soon
Only in the warped neocon mind where the poor eat lobster every day and the rich are the real victims despite controlling everything.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@RavySnake
Only in the warped neocon mind
It's not a success for the poor?
That's not what the WH said. Aren't they claiming 20 million previously uninsured now on the program?
And wasn't that the whole point?

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@RavySnake
t. Bernout ranting

You lost, get over it.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Evilember
Healthcare is a good thing. Only third world shitholes don't have it. However, the US's healthcare has an extremely low value for money compared to pretty much any other Western country. So that's something you guys should fix, but instead you're probably going to do away with healthcare entirely because murricins gonna murricin. I don't care either way.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@TurtleCat
Are you absolutely brainwashed?

A: I didn't already have insurance
B: My parents insurance premiums DOUBLED

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@StonedTime
The Medicaid expansion accounted for the vast majority of newly insured. That could have been accomplished without the massive shitheap of Obamacare

King_Martha
King_Martha

If it wasn't for Obamacare my wife might be dead. She couldn't get insurance because of a prior existing condition. Couldn't get Medicaid in Texas because the powers that be don't want no more poor people in Texas. She was getting sicker and sicker. Finally Obamacare becomes the law of the land. She goes through the "marketplace" and finds a subsidized plan. Goes to Doc. Has diabetes. Needs mammogram. Gets complete work up. Now she feels better and is more productive.

Thanks, Obama.

girlDog
girlDog

@Garbage Can Lid
Sure, but I'm guessing that poor people count it as a success.
I can't make that argument for the middle class people who ate shit on it, though.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@King_Martha
So you were just sitting around watching her die? It's hard to believe stories like this because their were already laws in place that said hospitals had to treat sick people regardless of insurance.

Tell the truth: you didnt want to spend money on her doctor's appointments

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Evilember
America should look at New Zealands system.

It's called ACC - Accident Compensation Corporation.

Unfortunately in your bipartisan system, there will never be any true change in your system. Your vote doesnt count. ANd even if you do vote, it's not effective because the system panders to the rich.

Good luck, but if i were in the US - i'd be packing my bags and heading north.

Just my 2c

whereismyname
whereismyname

@VisualMaster
Insurance company wants to grow earnings at 30% YoY, but must pay 80% of premiums out in claims? Fine, we ask the hospital to make sure to charge us 30% more every year

This is exactly why its fucked. If you removed that requirement then insurance companies would exert pressure to keep costs down.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@SniperWish
You will not find better healthcare in Canada.

What you will find is you pay more and get less, also I hope you like waiting months to see anyone outside of a GP.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@VisualMaster
their citizens pay less in taxes than we do in premiums
That's not true. We did the math when a frog was bragging about his health coverage. Their tax rate on $50k is 40%, ours is ~11%
$20k vs $5.5k
The frog making $50k is gonna pay $14.5k more per year in taxes than the American making $50k.
(The best part? The frog kept refering to $50k/year as "upper class." Ayy Europoors lmao)

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@viagrandad
Google for health insurance underwriting guidelines (filetype:.pdf) - or "field underwriting guidelines" - the term dates back to when insurance agents worked door-to-door / in the field and couldn't just ask a computer what the premiums should be based on a prospective client's medical history.

www.bcbstx.com/producer/pdf/tx_uw_guide.pdf

echealthinsurance.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/aetna_fl_fug.pdf

Don't just look at the BMI/weight/height charts, look at the lists of conditions. Ever had GERD (acid reflux/heartburn) even if not actually obese? Anxiety/depression (and ironically, if you live in an MMJ state, your prescription could make you ineligible for insurance!) How about ADHD? And that's just stuff for when you're young - wait'll you get older - think about all the things your parents have had go wrong with them...

Now ask yourself this: how does having armies of statisticians figuring out the cost/benefit ratio of how much to charge -- and the doctors having to perform physicals just to see whether you're healthy enough to get insurance -- and so on... how does all of that actually help delivering care to patients?

Insurance companies are middlemen and need to be disintermediated. But as history tells, middlemen don't take too kindly to that.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@King_Martha
and is more productive.
yeah, i doubt that.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@BinaryMan
The problem now is that they are publicly owned. UNH alone has a market cap of $132 billion. What do we do just buy them out? No other country had a gigantic publicly owned insurance industry when they nationalized

Evilember
Evilember

@King_Martha
Thanks Obama.
not said ironically or sarcastically.

What website am I on?
10/10 would read again.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Evilember
Also, I posted this in another thread, but fuck it -

Britbong here.
all prescriptions fixed price of £6.50
pay nothing for tests, consultations, etc
exempt if unemployed or pensioner
mfw I am exempt from all costs because lifelong medical condition
shit is so cash
most dental work and orthodontics free too
pulling a tooth is always free
insert joke about britbongs bad teeth here
if you go private, don't call a fucking ambulance unless it's life or death
I called an ambulance once to take me to hospital because I had trouble breathing
the worst I got was a sarcastic paramedic

It's like burgerlanders enjoy paying for being sick.

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