How much money do I have to make where I can just be left the fuck alone and...

RavySnake
RavySnake

How much money do I have to make where I can just be left the fuck alone and leave humanity behind?

I want off the ride as much as possible.

All urls found in this thread:
https://retirementplans.vanguard.com/VGApp/pe/pubeducation/calculators/RetirementNestEggCalc.jsf
http://m.finn.no/realestate/homes/ad.html?finnkode=77924982&fks=77924982
http://cfiresim.com/
http://cfiresim.com/
https://retirementplans.vanguard.com/VGApp/pe/pubeducation/calculators/RetirementNestEggCalc.jsf
http://cfiresim.com/
StonedTime
StonedTime

@RavySnake
not a lot ask anybody on disability

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@StonedTime
Most likely will not be on that. Thinking more so a permabachelor lifestyle.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@RavySnake
10 million near the city. If you want to live in but fuck nowhere in the countryside maybe 4 million. If you own a trailer in a crappy area and plan to live cheaply in a cheap area extra conservatively without being homeless or starving then maybe 2 million would cut it.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@VisualMaster
my point is they don't get a lot of money but they make it work

like 800 bucks a month maybe

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

100k

Bidwell
Bidwell

@RavySnake
Define your perma-bachelor lifestyle in terms of monthly/yearly dollars needed.

Then assume a well-diversified 60-40 stock-bond portfolio returns 2.5-3% indefinitely. 4% if you're not banking on immortality or Social Security.

Earn enough to create a portfolio of the necessary size and, voila, you are financially independent.

Inmate
Inmate

@VisualMaster
permabachelor lifestyle

got a close friend like that. inheritance, lives off a trust left to him and a paid off house. he's absolutely miserable and lonely af. not a life you want to live senpai

idontknow
idontknow

You don't need any money to leave humanity behind, man.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@RavySnake

bumping for interest

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Inmate
lol as if you knew any way to alleviate his misery you tool

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Bidwell

Just did the math and would need at least $600,000

brb killing myself

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@SomethingNew
ive heard enough pathetic prostitute stories for quite a few good laughs at said friends expense

but youre right. even though pic related is the real scenario here; shoot for the stars and all

Methshot
Methshot

@Bidwell
Then assume a well-diversified 60-40 stock-bond portfolio returns 2.5-3% indefinitely
That's an awfully fucking conservative estimate of future returns, even discounting for inflation. You could easily use 5-6% and still have a 99% success rate in a Monte Carlo simulation.

But whatever.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@RavySnake
I would say 30k€.

The buy a plot of land in northern Norway. Won't be the best to farm, so focus on a pond for fishing. Trade in fish for something else.

Plan works best if you have another 30k€ to buy a small apartment that you rent off for 200€ a month, enough to buy canned food, rice, etc for every day.

I admit that living the hermit life is an idea that's growing inside me. Especially now that my life is in shambles with little hope for it to change anytime soon. Waiting for the results of my last application.

Still have to source the 60k€ for the comfy Pentti Linkola life.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

Pic related isn't the real scenario, neither is the NEET version. You're going to be suffering regardless if you go full wagecuck or NEET, one's just physical the other is mental.

t. NEET for 2 years, now wagecuck.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Sir_Gallonhead
oops meant to reply to you half-asleep because I have to work night shift tonight

whereismyname
whereismyname

@TalkBomber
How exactly will you finance a decent car/pickup truck that you need to move things or go to the city? Where exactly will you live, in a hole in the ground? Who will you trade the fish to and how? Is this a troll or do you really think it's 1516?

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@TalkBomber
How is the life in norway?
Is the land so cheap there?

eGremlin
eGremlin

@whereismyname
for 30k there will be a shack to live in already. Check for property in northern Norway. It's criminally cheap.

You move with a motorcycle, ofc. It's efficient and cheap. A KTM Adventure 1190 is sufficient to move stuff to sale to the village and stuff to eat back.

You trade fish directly. 2 options: you already agreed with a few people to whom you send the fish straight to the door once a week or you ahve a small booth to sell in front of a supermarket (I know a dude in my city who does that). Check on Pentti Linkola who was selling fish from a horse carriage until recently (he lives on govt support now, old guy). Ted Kaczynski sold meat he hunted, that's not too long ago; certainly not 1516.

Think a bit outside of the modern comforts box.

@LuckyDusty
Very cheap in the northern regions, because everyone moves to the more populated cities. Life is comfy. Only lived there for a few months, though. Took a long 17 days hike to the northern region, too. Good times.

The question really is: do you want to opt out of society while living in an urban environment, or would you not mind to be the weird guy in the log hut? It's a huge financial difference. I for one would probably feel better with nature if I was to opt out from social life. Being a loner in a city must be depressing.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@eGremlin
shack
So you'll build all the things you need in it (solar power, compost toilet, water tower/well) with what money and what tools?

Also, where does the money for the bike, gas, repairs, garage, bike tools, equipment, etc. come from?

whom you send the fish straight to the door once a week or you ahve a small booth to sell in front of a supermarket
Both of these things are illegal under EU regulations, and to legalize it you'd again need more money etc.

Also, you'd move the fish in a portable fridge on a bike, seriously?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@eGremlin
Well, i planned to live outside the big cities years ago, i love to hike, hunt, fish and do simple job.

How is hunting regulated in norway? Could i make out a living hunting and teaching people how to hunt/shoot?

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@BunnyJinx
So you'll build all the things you need in it
Why do you think that? It's all inside already.

Both of these things are illegal under EU regulations, and to legalize it you'd again need more money etc.
Norway is not in the EU.
Regulations are indeed a problem, though. Pentti Linkola discussed his life as a fisherman to some detail and mocked certain regulations he had to keep up with and blamed such regulations for the end of private fishery.

The thing is: you don't need to be a fisherman. You can even do nothing. You can live on 200€/Month if you live truly frugal. It's just an extra and possible. Getting a food selling license or whatever isn't too hard either. My ex girlfriends father sold food on the side with such a license and he didn't have to use industrial machines for it. Besides no one truly cares if you have a private agreement to ship your products straigth to the house- or that one guy with his booth: he follows regulations. It's not too hard.

It's all excuses at this point, really.

Also, you'd move the fish in a portable fridge on a bike, seriously?
The KTM is more than just a "bike".

One has to be flexible and work with what you have. I drive a 2nd hand Suzuki Samurai. It cost me a little over 3k€, insurance and taxes are minuscule and it's rather light, so it's not as inefficient as other offroaders. In a way it would be even a cheaper option than the KTM.

If you want to be on the safe side and have more comfort just save up for more years to rent off another apartment. Your mileage may vary. Alaska might be an even better option. In America hunting permits are easier to get and Alaska is rather cheap, I heard, with all those depressed drunken people there.

Also, where does the money for the bike, gas, repairs, garage, bike tools, equipment, etc. come from?

You simply don't have a garage, you repair it yourself (don't drive a modern car with 60% development costs in electronics).

It's possible to live with nearly nothing.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Ignoramus
How is hunting regulated in norway? Could i make out a living hunting and teaching people how to hunt/shoot?

Very regulated.
Personally I live in Germany and you can imagine how difficult it is to even get a gun. But in reality it's doable. For a gun you need to be member of a shooting club for a year and shoot competitively. Then you get such a permit. Hunting requires some more effort. If you have the money to buy 75 hectares of land you can hunt with little issues. If you cannot afford that I wouldn't really go that route. I can imagine it to be similar in Norway.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@RavySnake
Desired annual income divided by 0.04.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Dreamworx
The KTM is more than just a "bike".
Yeah, it's a ridiculously overpriced bike that has ridiculously overpriced spare parts.

Getting a food selling license or whatever isn't too hard either
Yeah, that's why even your hero stopped doing it.

I mean, I have nothing against your idea, it's just that it costs more money than it's worth, and the last time you could actually do something like that was in the past century.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Booteefool
12/30 is .4

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Harmless_Venom
My hero stopped doing it because he cannot walk anymore. He's kinda old by now.

it's just that it costs more money than it's worth
This is true.
However it depends a bit on how much it is worth to you, ofc, to be away from the rat race. I wouldn't do it with 60k€ either, but one could, if he really wanted. I wish it was easier.

It's easier if you can get autismbux. It's free money and not too little.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Boy_vs_Girl
be away from the rat race.
How exactly are you away from it? You're still under the same government, participating in the same economic system, if you ever want to talk to anyone you're participating in the same culture etc.

You're just dead last while everyone else is running laps around you.

5mileys
5mileys

@Methshot
Are there any good websites/tools that will let you play around with simulations based on historical data?

6% is a pretty huge difference from 3%....

w8t4u
w8t4u

@TalkBomber
Plan works best if you have another 30k€ to buy a small apartment
are you fucking mad? best thing you can buy in norway for 30k is a sauna.

askme
askme

@RavySnake
Kys

massdebater
massdebater

@5mileys
Are there any good websites/tools that will let you play around with simulations based on historical data?

Vanguard for the win (again).

https://retirementplans.vanguard.com/VGApp/pe/pubeducation/calculators/RetirementNestEggCalc.jsf

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Soft_member
Nah, not last. Just buying the ticket to stay and watch. Freedom ain't free.

Of course you could go full retard and live in some 3rd world jungle for the hardliner option to checking out; and then there is the option of suicide. But The comfy "getting by with the least" option is close enough.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@w8t4u
I own an apartment that cost me 10k€.
It's a single room flat in a project where some Turk roach shat in the elevator, but still. And there are many more apartments like this.

You won't get a house at this price or anything decent, but you get something and students are glad to have something at all for cheap rent.

Pic related first result for a 1 room flat in my town.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@RavySnake
Norway
Let me correct it then.
Here some land for 10k€. It's too much, but ofc lacks the shack which drives the price up (access to electricity). Again an early result. For 30k€ you definitely find something run down with electricity and some land.

One only has to take the opt-out seriously enough.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@kizzmybutt
forgot pic

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Sir_Gallonhead
That is a very stupid image. One portrays a person who has not goals in life and the other one that works very little for a lot of money. It doesn't have to do anything about work. I person with goals does not need someone to tell him what to do to do it, and more free time means achieving more life goals.

Techpill
Techpill

@TalkBomber
Enjoy dying from cold.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@hairygrape
http://m.finn.no/realestate/homes/ad.html?finnkode=77924982&fks=77924982

40k€ for the perfect opt out opportunity.
Comfy enough for a madman.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

A
R
B
I
T
R
A
G L O B A L
E

I live in country X and work for a company in country Y where they pay me what for their standards is peanuts and here is an average wage.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@DeathDog
100k/yr x 40 years = 4million
have to live in a trailer to make it

Stop reading clickbait about how much you need to retire

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Methshot
Well we're assuming real returns, right? Otherwise OP's fucked by inflation.

And there's sequencing risks, so OP isn't fucked right out the gate by a 20% bear market the year he retires.

I'm also going by a permanent portfolio assumption. If OP wants to swallow a gun the moment he runs out of cash in 30 years, that's fine. But considering how medical and anti-aging tech is advancing, he may never *be* old.

I'm also assuming we want something that will work 99%+ of the time rather than 95% of the time. Dunno about you or OP, but a 1/20 diceroll
of failure would be a huge amount of stress on me as a permaNEET. I mean, going back to work? Fuck that.

Ultimately, the Trinity Study gave about a 95% "success" (balance > 0 after 30 years) rate for 4% withdrawal of a 60-40 portfolio. It's basically for normalfags who want to retire with grey hair and die with nothing.

Test some numbers yourself at http://cfiresim.com/

farquit
farquit

@Boy_vs_Girl

Shit, meant to plug http://cfiresim.com/ to @5mileys

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@TalkBomber
bo i nord norge

Et år i millå va nok asså, fyfaen for en drittplass. Skjer ikkje en fokkings ting og det e pissekaldt hele tiå. Nei fuckings takk.

5mileys
5mileys

@Lunatick
DDR gun laws
norway
No. Hunting licences are granted to any non-crazy, non-convict citizen over the age of 18 who has completed a "hunting course" (written test, fee is minimal) and can prove that he has somewhere to hunt (govt. land being the simplest of excuses).

This is what hunting firearm (shotgun/rifle) regulations look like in most Nordic countries, give or take a few minor details.

Inmate
Inmate

@Soft_member
How exactly are you away from it? You're still under the same government
What does "being under the government" mean to you? Moving on land areas "governed" by a spook of the mind?
participating in the same economic system
Taxes are easily avoided when living as a hermit.
if you ever want to talk to anyone you're participating in the same culture etc.
There's more to a culture than oral communication.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@TalkBomber
Fishing in your pond should get you like 50 bucks a month until you run out of fish to catch.
There's a reason fishing is a ruinous hobby and people who have to make a living through it are all third-world peasants or debt-slaves.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@massdebater
https://retirementplans.vanguard.com/VGApp/pe/pubeducation/calculators/RetirementNestEggCalc.jsf
@farquit
Shit, meant to plug http://cfiresim.com/ to @5mileys

Thanks. It does look more like 2.5-3.5% though...

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@RavySnake
None, grow your own food, and make your own shit.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Gigastrength
Lets be clear the context here is 'i want to withdraw from humanity' basically.

And youre talking persuing personal growth and life goals (without taking into account we're social creatures)?

user, please. I stand by my /r9k/ assessment of the likely result

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

I plan on doing it with 300k and a paid off house. Probably have to rent the basement out or something though.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@DeathDog
Stop posting bullshit.

With $2,000,000, dividends bring you $5,000 per month. That's not "living cheaply", even in the most expensive countries in the world.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@kizzmybutt
What are taxes?
What is inflation?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@RavySnake

Depends where you are from. I live in Vancouver, Canada. $2,000/month would be perfect for me but only if I already owned my own small apartment, which is not cheap.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@DeathDog

Dude, $1,000,000 in almost all cities would be enough to buy 2 properties. Live in one, rent one out for a decent amount of money you can live off of. If you can establish an income you don't need 10 million. What the fuck are you even talking about?

w8t4u
w8t4u

@lostmypassword
Do you mean a studio flat?
Pics of view or anything?
Any more pics? Advice?

How much would it be to buy a studio flat similar to this in India? Anyone?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Sir_Gallonhead
Man the NEET describes my life almost exactly, except for pic related:

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

My wife and I calculated ours out to be around 6 million. That gives us what is essentially a permanent upper middle class lifestyle without any government programs. If you factor in SS, Medicare, my disability, and her eventual pension it lowers pretty dramatically but we don't really have confidence in those programs.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Sir_Gallonhead
With property taxes on two properties and your rental income being taxed plus the commission fees for purchasing at about 2% per property you're looking at a much worse situation, plus HOA fees in cities are absurd.

2 bedroom condos in Boston are 400k, and that's not for the good ones, and that comes with 500/month in property tax, plus ~350/month in HOA fees.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@GoogleCat
Part time job with day trading on the off days. Best of both world.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@w8t4u
1 room is studio, That is correct. And Magdeburg is a little shitty boring city.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@RavySnake

I get disability and it's about $800 a month plus $125 q month in food stamps.

I went to college for five years and got the grant money and loans but ended up pissing it away on a girlfriend of 5 years.

She kicked me out 6 months ago so now I have nothing but my car. I have 1-2 more years of free money and I plan on using that money to rent a condo and then rent out the 2nd room to a student so my rent is super cheap.

Then once the market is good, sell the condo and maybe buy two.

It's a plan but I need a shitty wage-slave job to help me save quicker.

Or my mother dying and I get $35k.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Sir_Gallonhead
kek
These pics never fail to amuse no matter which side they support.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@RavySnake
Don't know if OP's still here, but...

Take your annual expenditures, preferably a very generous estimation of it, multiply it by 25, and put it in an index fund. Withdraw 4% every year (or 2% if you put in 50x your annual expenditures).

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@LuckyDusty
Are you talking about being paid in pukka shells? 120k may not be what it once was, but it's still a comfortable life for a permanent bachelor. Besides, 5k in income doesn't mean he has to spend 5k. He could easily spend half and reinvest half each month, and live a comfortable middle class lifestyle for the rest of his days (so long as he stays a bachelor).

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@AwesomeTucker
Yeah, but you don't have to have a 60-40 split while you're working. You could run a straight diversified equity portfolio and transition once you're ready to retire. Would probably get you to retirement faster. The 60-40 split is to ensure consistent returns through just about any market scenario.

Methnerd
Methnerd

You can live well off with 3000 a month. The problem is too many people live beyond their means and want to buy everything they see. If you want to buy a house these days you need to be married. Its nearly impossible for one person to do it alone. Since i'm on Veeky Forums I will get the hurr durrr I haz trust fund gorrlian dollars with 40 properties and rare pepe. I know a lot of professionals who can't buy homes and they move to cheaper states with a slight pay cut.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

bump

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@RavySnake
ideally you will own your own property and teach yourself how to live self-sustainably (raise and eat your own chickens or livestock, grow your own vegetables, solar power etc.)

shouldn't need to much, especially if you can do without the internet and substitute it with reading and learning to paint etc.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

a truck and a small trailer for $20k

then you just need a small income to feed yourself and keep the truck running

so it seems to be less about a bulk savings and more about a passive income, unless you plan on getting rich quick or waiting until you are old to bug out

Evilember
Evilember

@New_Cliche
I don't really mind.
As long as it has some city amenities.
Spain looks cheap too, like you said,
I don't want fancy places, just something cheap around £10k.
I see some here for £15-20k but the difference is it it's warmer, many have balconies and sea views.

I'm a britbong and prices here are ridiculous.
£20k is usually the start point if you want to live in a boarded up street in a run-down northern town.
£50k for a tiny studio.
Then it's pretty much half a million and up anywhere else.

I wanna buy like one every year or so then just be a landlord and continue business ventures at a more relaxed pace.

Disable AdBlock to view this page

Disable AdBlock to view this page