The recession is over

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

the recession is over

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/03/fact-checking-donald-trumps-nine-graph-tweet-proving-that-obama-has-failed/
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/29/news/economy/relative-prices/
http://www.multpl.com/us-gdp-growth-rate/table/by-year
http://www.bea.gov/national/xls/gdpchg.xls
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?end=2014&locations=US&name_desc=true&start=2009
Dreamworx
Dreamworx

Theres another massive property and tech bubble that needs bursting, but in the long run it will benefit society.

If people stopped using credit cards as unilimited cash and we set interest rates at respectable level, we'd be OK.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Lord_Tryzalot
Mind posting a larger version so I can see the scales?

viagrandad
viagrandad

black inequality means recession
How did you come to think that? Black inequality will increase whenever the economy improves and there are rich people around.

5mileys
5mileys

@viagrandad

King nigger always acts like he has been helping them out but the chart says otherwise

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Lord_Tryzalot
You can't tell the paid CB and bankster shills in here anything.
They will literally refute anything you say and tell the rest of Veeky Forums to be permabulls

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Lord_Tryzalot
What are the sources for these charts?

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Fried_Sushi
basic perception of reality

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Fuzzy_Logic
black inequality
way to intothetrash your whole picture

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Stupidasole
This,
@Lord_Tryzalot
All these graphs make sense except for your nigger philosophy one.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Lord_Tryzalot
black inequality

GIBS!!!!!!!!!!

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Dreamworx

High interest rates come about when there is natural, unobservable real growth in the economy.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Dreamworx

Isn't the interest rate like almost 0? Shouldn't y'all be borrowing money and invest it?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Gigastrength
they dont "come about"

whereismyname
whereismyname

Just 9 different ways to make money.

Open cheaper private schools
Open EBT stores
Muh government contracts
Bit Coin mining
Cheaper hospitals
Le human card may may
More private jails
More apartments rental units

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Dreamworx
So you want to people to stop using the most well-established, low-interest bearing, efficient modern credit market in the world and you expect this to make rates lower? Are you suggesting that we cut out the entirety of the subprime credit markets?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@PackManBrainlure
how would one apply for one of these paid for posting on Veeky Forums shill positions?

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Fuzzy_Logic
Donald Trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/03/fact-checking-donald-trumps-nine-graph-tweet-proving-that-obama-has-failed/

iluvmen
iluvmen

@viagrandad
This

Blacks are consumers and not producers so they will always be fucked

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

>>1360202
Also, liberals always claim that more people going to university is better for the economy and society, so student loans should be a good thing.

Except that instead of paying back the student loan debt, they could've been consuming, investing and adding to the economy

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Illusionz
Yeah, i want higher interest rates so that people who cant afford to borrow dont borrow.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@CouchChiller
implying poor people know about interest rates

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Lord_Tryzalot
muh zerohedge doomsday graph's

FastChef
FastChef

this is the only graph people should look at. we are constantly evolving, to better, higher quality of life as a species.

believing what you read on the Internet
Here's the REAL redpill. Everything is fine. By every conceivable metric the globe is improving. Poverty is falling, literacy is rising, the economy is growing. Humans are incredibly resilient. It took two years to bounce back from the worst recession the world has experienced.

The conspiracy theories on /pol/ are made by disillusioned people. High school dropouts, 30 year old minimum wage workers, balding single 40s men. Not necessarily bad people, just people with an axe to grind against society. Unhappy men who attract each other and find huge problems in society so theirs look small by comparison.

The mass of infographs, claims and correlations are NOT something you should take at face value. It's a bunch of fallacies that only seem reasonable with people egging you on. If someone on the street came up to you and said "The Jews control the media because there are several prominent media companies have Jewish CEOs", you'd ignore him. With that reasoning I could "prove" that there's a conspiracy by irishmen to take over the world.

Never forget you're on Veeky Forums.
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Lord_Tryzalot
Student loans
Go up as our laborforce shifts from uneducated to educated and demand for colleges increases. Also due significantly to FAFSA and the ability for colleges to price discriminate.

Food Stamps
Even in that graph they are leveling off

Federal Debt
In order to pay for the bailout, yes. It's a lasting result of such an action.

Money printing
similar to the last point

Healthcare Costs
I dont' see how rising healthcare costs could be indicative of a recession at all, senpai

LFP
A rate that includes retirees, so as long as the baby boomers are retiring that rate will go down

Inequality of any kind
Same cause as student loans. The gap between educated and uneducated earnings continues to grow.

Median family income
Same as above.

Home Ownership
The increasing part of that graph is a bubble. It is expected that it would level out at or below the constant before the 1995 increase.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@FastChef
While this is true, user, the people on /pol/ are also nationalistic, so how the niggers and chinks and whatnot are doing is irrelevant to them. It only matters how their country is doing in a vacuum. Which to be fair is understandable. Saying "well at least everyone else is doing better" doesn't really help if your house is burning down.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@FastChef
China and India are rising put of abject poverty
somehow this is supposed to benefit me
Kill yourself you globalist scum. Shills out in force on the 4th of July of all fucking days

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@FastChef
"Thank you, Mr. Shecklestein, please give my job to India so the world poverty rate will drop slightly"

Soft_member
Soft_member

@FastChef
Long term you are absolutely right. The world as a whole is getting richer, not because of redistribution from "muh factory jobs", but because there is more economic activity so the whole pie is growing.

However, that means jack shit to me when I have to compete against 3rd world wages as a software development at a SP500 body shop. Luckily I have enough brains to have a side project to make shekels.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@FastChef

the globe
the globe
the globe
Fuck the globe. I'm only interested in my opportunities and those are being sold out to foreigners

askme
askme

@FastChef
westerners get progressively poorer
this is fine became the bottom is rising in shithole nations

Emberburn
Emberburn

@askme
Neocons push for the equal misery of globalism and then have the gall to try to slap that accusation on others...

Soft_member
Soft_member

@FastChef
Unhappy men who attract each other
Try saying that to their faces

SniperWish
SniperWish

@FastChef

The metric for that poverty chart is making more than $1/day. Even adjusted for inflation, that would make it roughly $2.14. That graph a shit, lmao

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Emberburn
Don't be retarded. Developed nations benefit more than anyone from globalism. Your products are cheaper than they've ever been thanks to it.

@askme
Except it's only certain strata of westerners that are getting poorer. Unless you're a low-skill laborer, I don't see what you're bitching about. White collar workers are making more than ever.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@SniperWish
(in 1987 dollars)

Are you legitimately so illiterate you don't understand that the graph is adjusted for inflation?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Garbage Can Lid
Cheaper in quality, sure. Cheaper in price, maybe. Cheaper in value per dollar, never.

And cheaper doesn't matter if you're out of a fucking job or your customers are.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Harmless_Venom
Cheaper in value per dollar, never.
So Ricardo was wrong?

if you're out of a fucking job
Good thing I went to college and got a degree and now have a cushiony office job. Your issues could be solved far more easily with redistributive policies and basic incomes, but since that's GOMMUNISM and you're more set on protectionism, which will never return, I'm content laughing from the sidelines.

massdebater
massdebater

@King_Martha
works in an office
thinks he can't be outsourced
What is H-1B? What is offshoring?

It's like you'll never see it coming.

Inmate
Inmate

@King_Martha
thinks either socialism or protectionism will be allowed to happen

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@massdebater
I don't think you even have the most basic understanding of relative comparative advantage. You offshore low-skilled jobs because other countries have far more low-paid, low-skilled workers. You don't offshore high-skilled workers because the US has the comparative advantage. Why the fuck do you think so many Indians and Chinese come here for college? Why do so many come here to work in business or other white-collar jobs?
Sure, user. If my office was a call-center for Verizon or some shit, it could be off-shored, but that's just as low-skill as all those factor jobs we off-shored.

But hey, as long as "Oh he's gonna get his!" helps you sleep, keep going. And keep banging your head against the brickwall of protectionism, pretending like internal forces like technology don't even exist.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Garbage Can Lid
Developed nations benefit more than anyone from globalism
Labor arbitrage

Your products are cheaper than they've ever been thanks to it
CPI says no.

Except it's only certain strata of westerners that are getting poorer
Most are, actually. Real median household income in the US peaked in 1999.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Inmate
Protectionism won't, which is what I said. Redistributive policy will be afforded on the basis that the people demand it, just as it always has. If you want to solve the problem of increasing inequality, you need to convince the Trumptards that redistribution is what's needed, and that no matter how good of "deals" we make, we'll never regain our comparative advantage in labor.

Here's the reality: if we suddenly got all of those manufacturing plants we lost back in the US, why on Earth do you think the owners wouldn't choose the newer, advanced machinery and robotics over the far more expensive American workers? If you think protectionism is the solution, you've only thought about as far as the end of your nose.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@King_Martha
Cheaper in value per dollar, never.
So Ricardo was wrong?
I'm also going to address this just in case anybody falls for what he's doing here. Some of you may not remember when consumer goods actually lasted. That's fair, we've been a dumping ground for the Chinese and their co-conspirators in business for a long time.

The graph is US worker productivity.

When I say goods' quality if falling faster than price (in other words, productivity per dollar isn't rising), it's clearly in reference to foreign-produced goods.

Yes, Virginia, productivity can rise in one location and fall in another different location.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@kizzmybutt
CPI says no
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/29/news/economy/relative-prices/

We spend far more on healthcare and education, but consumer goods are overwhelmingly cheaper in real value.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Deadlyinx
we'll never regain our comparative advantage in labor
Actually, that's exactly what tariffs do. It imposes a cost upon a foreign good which can strip out company savings from labor & regulatory arbitrage--making domestic production the profitable.

why on Earth do you think the owners wouldn't choose the newer, advanced machinery
Because they don't exist. If they did, we would have literally no one working manufacturing in the US today. Yet, somehow, we still have people working in manufacturing here. Even so, the cost of that type of equipment is often extraordinary and it may be so high that after realizing the expense through some form of loan, it turns out to be more expensive than just hiring an employee.

Evilember
Evilember

@Methnerd
dumping
You apparently don't know what that means. Nobody is selling goods for less than it costs to produce them.

And tell me, user, which goods can you currently not buy a higher-quality version of for the same real cost or less than you used to be able to? If, say, the cost of a toaster in 1960 was $60 in today's value. Are you saying that you could no longer buy a toaster of 1960s quality for that price or less? Having $15 cheap quality toasters doesn't diminish the quality of expensive toasters, it simply gives the consumer more options, and depending on how much they use them, the more efficient option.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@lostmypassword
you don't offshore high-skilled workers
So in your world, software development isn't skilled labor? Because clearly that's been offshored and nobody offshores skilled labor.

Just like nobody hires illegals. Or violates any other labor laws. Or engages in false advertising.

Why the fuck do you think so many Indians and Chinese come here for college?
Gee, I don't know, how about because their governments subsidize education and some of our states are dumb enough to subsidize them too?

The reality that neocons don't, or won't, understand is that every government on Earth is subsidizing or protecting their populace except ours.

Postage from China to the US is practically free, but not the other way around. Numerous markets we have no tariffs on our end but are subject to tariffs on the other end if not outright denied access to those markets entirely. To do business in China, you have to partner with a Chinese company; here, no such requirement. Trade between the US and China is practically a one way street on every level.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Emberburn
Yet, somehow, we still have people working in manufacturing here.
Very few and for a fraction of what they used to. You're acting like manufacturing is monolithic. The steel industry, for example, works fairly well for what you're saying. It's also extremely unionized still, and if you think it takes the same number of workers to create a roll of steel that it did in the 60s, you're delusional. The process is far more automated than it used to be, and the total number of steel workers in any given factory has decreased as a result, even if output has not.

Have you never watched "How It's Made", user? You don't see the amount of factories in the US right now that at one time required hundreds of workers being operated by 5 mexicans and a mostly-automated assembly line?

TechHater
TechHater

@Evilember
And tell me, user, which goods can you currently not buy a higher-quality version of for the same real cost or less than you used to be able to?
Are you serious?

Forget higher quality for the same price, in many cases, higher quality for a higher price doesn't exist.

Having $15 cheap quality toasters doesn't diminish the quality of expensive toasters, it simply gives the consumer more options,
This is total bullshit. What we end up with is 10 brands of shit produced in the same Chinese factory priced within 3 cents of each other depending on whether we're at Walmart or HHGregg. Scratch that, I don't know the last time I saw 10 brands of anything at the same store, but WTF does it matter when it's the same rebadged shit no matter what name is on the box?

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@SniperWish
sofware development
If in 5 years there software development in the US industry actually declines, then I'll come to this board and post about how right you are. As of right now, it's thriving and shows no signs of slowing down anytime soon. Offshoring R&D is a practice a few companies are choosing as a solution to the US' falling competitiveness. It is by no means the logical end.

understand is that every government on Earth is subsidizing or protecting their populace except ours.
If this were true, we'd have no agricultural industry.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Snarelure
Ah, you're going for the technological obsolescence red herring and implying that the same materials are also used. Yes, a TV with the technological progression of 1983 will be worth far less today, as will anything that becomes obsolete. Since the 1980s, we also seen a surge in the use of cheap (low-quality) materials--especially plastics.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Evilember
You apparently don't know what that means. Nobody is selling goods for less than it costs to produce them.
What are loss leaders?

For fuck's sake, it's common knowledge that every non-Nintendo console starts off at a loss that's made up by game licensing and cost reduction over the system's lifespan.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@TechHater
same rebadged shit no matter what name is on the box?

Lol, I think I'm just about done here. Even if i were to ignore the fact that modern toasters are far more technologically advanced and allow more precise cooking than people 50 years ago could have had, the idea that you're basing your argument here on a hunch because you just "know" that all toasters are the same quality, regardless of price or manufacturer shows you can't be reasoned with.

Ill leave you with this, user: globalization is the dominant trend. Nothing you do, nothing Trump does, etc. will stop it. It is essentially a force of nature at this point, and if I were as concerned about the income inequality gap as you are, I would seriously consider directing my political issues to mitigating its effects.

Also, pretending like changing technology has no effect on industry is stupid and you fucking know it is. If you invent the wheel, you allow one person to drag a boulder on a cart when it used to take 50. This is how it works, m8.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@StonedTime
Very few and for a fraction of what they used to
Actually, we have quite a bit of manufacturing personnel in the US who produce nearly $1.9 trillion worth of goods per year and typical starting salaries in the manufacturing sector are around $20/hr., not including typically robust benefits. There are currently about 12.5 million manufacturing workers in the US.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Illusionz
Yes, you are done, because you can't refute any of it. You have no idea how far industries have consolidated and how many brands that are just a different face of the same owner. Back in 2005, I interviewed for a company that owned one warehouse behind 20 different websites, all with different pricing and graphics to market to a different audience, none of whom had any idea they were all dealing with the same people. For fuck's sake, try ordering business cards or checks online. It's two companies with a hundred "differenty" websites between them.

If you can't see something that's right here in front of your face, how the hell are you going to judge the relative quality of products produced a decade apart?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

no sources
Nice lines that mean absolutely nothing.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Garbage Can Lid
It's two companies with a hundred "differenty" websites between them.
Oh god, I know right?! I was looking for certain sex toys a little while ago and 90% of what I came across were sites laid out exactly the same, with the same product description and pictures, but a different site name. It was super obnoxious.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Garbage Can Lid
If you can't see something that's right here in front of your face, how the hell are you going to judge the relative quality of products produced a decade apart?
Indeed. Jumping in here, frying pans are a good example imo. Frying pans may be cheaper these days but mostly because everyone's switched to cheaper, shittier construction; namely, cold pressed aluminium likely with some shitty teflon nonstick coating.

If you want to buy a solid-cast cast iron frying pan you're looking at $300-400 dollars for one. This isn't taken into account in the inflation figures because hardly anyone does it this way anymore so the stats people would have trouble even knowing it's a thing.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Soft_member
Basically this, You literally have to dig through heaps of shit to find a quality brand of something. They aren't blatantly advertised out in the open for everyone to see like normal cheap crap you buy at walmart.
It's the difference between buying a bicycle at walmart or a bikeshop.
It's the difference between buying home grade power tools at home depot and your commercial grade counterparts at a specialized tool shop.
Most people don't even know a better product exists but its not like most people could afford them anyways.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Soft_member
@w8t4u
And that's how you end up with a $25 American tool that last 50 years being rated "worse" than a $20 Chinese tool that you replace every 5 years.

My parents had a Panasonic Genius microwave back when they cost about $1000 adjusted for inflation. That microwave lasted 25 years and we used it hard. My grandmother, who has the same model, is still using hers 10 years later.

When I moved out, I bought a Panasonic Genius microwave for about $350. It was the most expensive microwave I could find. I had it for about 3 years, rarely used it, and the magnetron blew.

Sure, it was 35% of the price. But I got 12% of the life out of it and even less usage.

IBM/Lexmark used to make their keyboards in Kentucky and they were tanks. Model Ms from the 1980s are still in use today. When the company moved overseas, somebody else bought the factory and continued making them under the Unicomp brand. Today they run about $85 for a basic keyboard. Finish is a little rougher IMO but they are still tanks.

IBM, up until about 10 years ago, sold a foreign-produced variant that was still pretty good (no metal springs though) for about $25 if I recall.

Now I don't think you can buy a Chinese all-plastic/rubber keyboard in stores for less than $30. they have that same chintzy plastic your printers do that feels about half a step up from styrofoam. They last, at best, about 3 years before the letters wear off, the cables go bad, or the contacts inside stop responding.

Of course they don't sell Unicomp, or any of your higher end keyboards from /g/, in stores, so nobody knows they exist. Probably the best widely available keyboards now are the ones that come with an iMac...and have you priced replacements for them? $50. But still, all plastic/rubber.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Sir_Gallonhead
Bloomberg terminal, you dip.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@StonedTime
Yeah our last microwave was 30 years old before we got rid of it. It was a dial one so you didnt have button issues. Got rid of it because it wasn't cooking food properly and more and started lacking power output. Was probably leaking radiation as well lel.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

ITT globalists getting rekt

No, Pajeet making 50c extra a day to push his family 2c over the world poverty line only to have the money saved in labor swallowed up by a corporate bonus is not justification for shipping millions of middle-class jobs overseas.

Methshot
Methshot

@Lord_Tryzalot
You talk about the recession yet none of those charts show GDP. I think you're just a troll, sir.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Lunatick
I've still got one of those in the trailer in the woods.
Works fine.
Older than me and my age begins with a 3

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@FastChef
shoo shoo globalism shill

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Methshot
lmao you mean this ugly pos?
not 1 year cracking 2% in 8 years
thanks Obama

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@FastChef
If you make over a dollar a day you are fine. Everything is fine.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@AwesomeTucker

I literally cannot understand the scale on a line graph
http://www.multpl.com/us-gdp-growth-rate/table/by-year
http://www.bea.gov/national/xls/gdpchg.xls
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?end=2014&locations=US&name_desc=true&start=2009
Here's your (You).

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Crazy_Nice
wat is comparative advantage

Lunatick
Lunatick

@JunkTop

implying metal fabrication isn't obsolete for most consumer electronics
You would like your 60" TV to be encased in billet steel, I take it? Yes, advances in material science--i.e., technological progression--are part of why things like TVs have become so much cheaper, and CPI takes that into account.

inb4 metal iPhone hurrr
That is a conscious design choice that Apple had made in response to the relatively wealthy and idiosyncratic nature of its consumer base. Plastic is still king.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Lunatick
Plastic is shit.

idontknow
idontknow

@New_Cliche
Your links contradict each other. Idk wtf multpl.com is but their numbers are bogus

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@AwesomeTucker
You realize that developed nations cant grow more than 2% a year barring extreme circumstances, no?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@CouchChiller
@Illusionz
What I really want to see is banks denying people the ability to get a loan if they don't meet stricter criteria. It's almost a joke if someone gets denied a loan these days, and that's fucking unbelievable.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Fried_Sushi
He doesn't know Zerohedge

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