Index funds

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

I'm 30 yo. Is this solid distribution for index funds?

VTI - 60%
VXUS - 30%
BND - 10%

I will invest 2x a year and rebalance 1x a year. I will reinvest dividends. That is about it.

All urls found in this thread:
https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/icrifi_032012_high.pdf
https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/icrifi_032012_high.pdf
askme
askme

@Raving_Cute
yea why not. if u dont really feel like fucking with ur port.

5mileys
5mileys

Vanguard website isn't working. Can't trade. Fuck!

takes2long
takes2long

@5mileys
trading on vanguard

right...

massdebater
massdebater

@Raving_Cute

That's pretty timid man. Stocks are tapped out, there is a net outflow of money from equities now.

Inmate
Inmate

@takes2long
S&p is at record high. I'm trying to sell voo.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

market (and thus indexes) were down all year
just as they recover you want to buy into them
great timing OP

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Raving_Cute
Solid foundation for portfolio. If it were me, I'd make two changes.

1. Add a small allocation to international bonds, maybe something in the 3-5% range (to be increase along with BND as you get older). Here's why: https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/icrifi_032012_high.pdf

2. Add an allocation (maybe 10%) to real estate through the REIT index fund. Many consider it a core asset class that's under-represented by VTI.

@massdebater
That's pretty timid man. Stocks are tapped out, there is a net outflow of money from equities now
Stupid comment. The equity outflows are outpaced 4:1 by INFLOWS into bonds (the most timid class). If OP wanted to follow the inflow/outflow sheep (which, btw, is always a ba-a-a-a-d) he'd go MORE into those bonds.

@Inmate
S&p is at record high. I'm trying to sell voo.
Markets are at or near all-time highs on 20% of all trading days. Your strategy is the equivalent of dumping your entire portfolio once a week. Because reasons. That's just dumb.

@Carnalpleasure
The best time to invest for the long-term is whenever you have money to invest for the long-term. Trying to time the market is a losing strategy, as has been proven time and time again.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@RumChicken
Markets are at or near all-time highs on 20% of all trading days. Your strategy is the equivalent of dumping your entire portfolio once a week. Because reasons. That's just dumb.

What the fuck are you talking about? I've held most of my VOO for over a year.

I sold because there are better opportunities for growth. My return was 8.2% (before tax).

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@DeathDog
If I would have waited 5 minutes I could have sold higher than $197.15, but oh well. Vanguard website is being a pain right now.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@DeathDog
I've held most of my VOO for over a year.
That's not even medium term. That's short-term. You're actually trading equity funds on a short-term basis.

Wow.

If you're such an emotional guy that you let your fears and concerns dictate your financial strategy, perhaps index funds are not right for you. There's plenty of crypto and daytrading threads where you might find a more welcoming echo chamber.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Sir_Gallonhead
Investing in index funds does not mean you ignore buy low and sell high. I think the market is overpriced now. Better to be in individual stocks like netflix, which has already given me a 14% paper gain in far less time.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@haveahappyday
Investing in index funds does not mean you ignore buy low and sell high
Yes it does. When you're a long-term investor the very concept of "buy low sell high" is meaningless because you're not looking for entry or exit points like a moron.
I think the market is overpriced now.
The market doesn't care what you think, never has, and never will. The market does what the market does (which is go up, historically speaking) regardless of your emotional state.
Better to be in individual stocks
Oh great, individual stock picking: a strategy proven to under-perform indexing 90% of the time. Why not just drop the pretense and the play the lottery?

Serious question: why are in a thread where OP is asking for advice about long-term index fund portfolio allocations when you clearly know nothing about indexing, eschew long-term investing, and have retarded views on portfolio composition?

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Stupidasole
the very concept of "buy low sell high" is meaningless

That is total bullshit. The market has been in very long down positions before.

@Stupidasole
Serious question: why are in a thread where OP is asking for advice about
Because its a Vanguard thread.

idontknow
idontknow

@Raving_Cute
I just started doing the same thing, though I am planning on doing just VTI and SSO. SSO seems to be beating S&P by about 30%

Can someone explain to me why bonds are such a good idea? They seem even worse than a Chase savings account, income-wise.

5mileys
5mileys

@Carnalpleasure
Timing the markets is dumb.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Raving_Cute
I went with Vanguard's mutual funds instead. Lower expense ratios. Also more bonds, but I'm 40yo.

US Stock Fund VTSAX 35%
Intl Stock Fund VTIAX 35%
US Bond Fund VBTLX 30%

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Supergrass
The market has been in very long down positions before.
Sigh. Another one of these debates, where I spend the entire time rebutting retarded statements....

Anyway, no, the market does not tend to stay in down positions for long periods of time. Bear markets tend to be substantially shorter in both duration and magnitude than bull markets.

Because its a Vanguard thread
So you admit that you come here to troll the only serious thread in the catalog? Why? /b/ or /r9k/ are easily accessible if you're just looking to shitpost.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@BlogWobbles
Invest how you want. I don't invest like you do. I made a good return and I exited the investment. I'll invest in something else later.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@idontknow
Can someone explain to me why bonds are such a good idea? They seem even worse than a Chase savings account, income-wise.
If you're under age 50, you shouldn't give a damn about income. Your job is for income. If you need more income, get a better job or get another job. (Or spend less.)

Income stunts the growth of your portfolio due to the tax consequences, and you don't have nearly enough capital yet to make income investing worthwhile anyway. As a young person, your only goal in investing should be to grow your net worth.

As to your question, bonds provide a measure of diversification and stability to a portfolio. While some bond returns have been modest in recent years, historically bonds have been a stable, respectable earning class. And even today, some bond classes have impressive returns. (Protip: not all bonds are the same.) So bonds can help protect your portfolio in the inevitable times when equities are underperforming. They won't eliminate the lows, but they'll make the lows less low.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@BlogWobbles
At the end of last year I put a lot of money into my index accounts right before the market went down. Obviously I couldn't have known things were going to go down and I'm sure in the long run it wont really matter but its still frustrating.

I noticed the market only went downhill right after everyone got their Christmas bonuses, eh?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@BlogWobbles
Is the length of those lines in terms of percent and not in points? If so then it exaggerates the bulls and makes bears look smaller

Evilember
Evilember

@Dreamworx
It happens to all of us. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. BUT in 10 years it won;t make a lick of difference.

Time-in-market is THE most important factor in determining your success in investing. The best thing you can do, always, is get your money invested and then wait.

@Stark_Naked
Not only are you wrong about the "bias" (explain that one, if you can), but showing the graph in points would be fully retarded because we're looking at historical data. Percentage returns is the only way to meaningfully analyze the data. *sigh*

RumChicken
RumChicken

@RumChicken

Smells like Mountain Dew and Reddit to me. Indexing is the standard response for those cucks over there.

OP should grow his tax-free portfolio aggressively, now, and once he has a half million, then he can fiddle around with bonds and other timid bullshit paying him nice tax free interest.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@RumChicken
Get my broker on the line. I wanna do a business.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@RumChicken
Smells like Mountain Dew and Reddit to me. Indexing is the standard response for those cucks over there.

So do you have a better idea except calling them names.

OP should grow his tax-free portfolio aggressively, now, and once he has a half million, then he can fiddle around with bonds and other timid bullshit paying him nice tax free interest.

Alright, tell me how to do that. I'm all ears.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

I work full-time as a waiter at a restaurant. would i be qualified or are there certain standards to having a portfolio

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@takes2long
Newbie here, mostly just read the mr money mustache or whatever, the OP is basically what I want to do. What gives?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@CouchChiller
I work full-time as a waiter at a restaurant. would i be qualified or are there certain standards to having a portfolio
The pre-requisites for intelligent investing are: (1) a steady income (wage or salary), (2) a set-aside emergency fund in cash of at least 3 months normal living expenses, and (3) at least $3000 that you're committed to invest for at least five years.

@ZeroReborn
What gives?
Smart investing isn't really that complicated or difficult. There's a few strategies, such as indexing, that have proven themselves successful time and time again. So it's not surprising that people gravitate towards what works.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Ignoramus
at least $3000 that you're committed to invest for at least five years
commitments not an issue. though is it possible to start off with small portions of money to invest with ($100) and gradually increase the amount over time

Evilember
Evilember

@Crazy_Nice
Brokerage fees generally make investing such small amounts not a good idea

DeathDog
DeathDog

@CouchChiller
There aren't any standards in terms of income or anything just to buy shares in an index fund. But all the ones that I'm familiar with require a minimum investment of around $2-3000.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@RumChicken
Trying to time the market is a losing strategy, as has been proven time and time again.

The turtles would like to have a talk with you.

I agree that index funds usually beat mutual funds, but with a clear trading system, you can beat the market. You just need to be better than the rest, find the holy grail etc

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

mfw i trade vanguard etf the past month
up 4.2% pretax
no face because i dont have faces saved on phone

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Burnblaze
You need to learn how statistics work. The fact that you can only point to a few dozen instances where people have actively traded to sustained returns better than the index proves my point, not yours. The fact that some people win the lottery doesn't mean everyone should rush out and buy tickets.

You just need to be better than the rest
Show me some evidence that skill, effort, experience, education or resources makes one iota of difference to active trading results. Fama already proved that the outliers are just lucky -- i.e., lottery ticket winners. Prove him wrong and maybe you'll get a Nobel Prize too.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@CodeBuns
up 4.2% pretax
The S&P 500 is up 15.4% from its 2016 low, and 6.6% since the Brexit announcement.

Like most active traders, you suck.

farquit
farquit

@Sir_Gallonhead
Aw, but ive only had an active vanguard account since june 15/16. I havent had time to get leet. And i really only traded sector etfs, plus vym. Utility, consumer staples and energy during brexit.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@farquit
The fact that you didn't even know how badly you're under-performing the index, but instead come to Veeky Forums to brag about your pitiful ROI, tells me all I need to know about your prospects. You can take all the time you want, user, but you'll never, ever be "leet."

WebTool
WebTool

@Emberburn
And you conveniently pick the very low and very hight of the market to gwt your percentage, points in time even you couldnt predict.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@WebTool
Well, to be fair, I did predict the Brexit turnaround. But since I don't believe in timing the market, I don't make a big deal about it. I could have just as easily been wrong. I wasn't, of course, but I could have been.

The 2016 low was to illustrate a point. Bragging about your results when you don't even know that AT BEST you're merely keeping up with the markets is a classic form of denial used by active traders. They only remember their (small) profits, ignore their losses, and turn a blind eye to the easier and safer alternatives that outperform them year after year after year.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Emberburn
I know, i should have put my entire portfolio on the line during brexit and buy at the very bottom. Mah bad brah

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

I got about $2,000 a year extra as play money. I'm thinking about investing it in stocks. Would it be more beneficial to just invest in a index or build up stock in a few companies?

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@lostmypassword
If i were to buy into one company, abx and f are the ones ive got at the top of my watchlist

DeathDog
DeathDog

@BlogWobbles
no, the market does not tend to stay in down positions for long periods of time

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Evilember
putting actions in between asterisks

why don't you just go fuck off back to gaia

DeathDog
DeathDog

@DeathDog
Japan is actively running themselves into the ground because of the old guard running the country like its 1989 still.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@DeathDog
Don't bother. The same faggot goes into every indexing thread and posts "WHAT ABOUT JAPAN" every time. No matter how often you explain to him that the Nikkei is only one index, or why Japan has faced unusual economic and fiscal policy circumstances, or that the price-weighted Nikkei is subject to uniquely extreme volatility distortions, he just keeps on shitposting.

FastChef
FastChef

@DeathDog
Let's take a look at Europe then.

Or do we have a meme definition of "the market" that discards Europe and Japan because reasons?

JunkTop
JunkTop

@FastChef
right on cue

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@FastChef
24 years of bull in a row
3 years of bear
slightly worse ratio after

wow hot opinions you've got there.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Stupidasole
buy at 5000+ fifteen years ago
it's worth 2928 today without ever having reached 5000 again
JUST INVEST EVERYTHING IN THE INDEX BRO THE MARKET WON'T STAY LOW

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@hairygrape
Bump

askme
askme

@Sharpcharm
@lostmypassword

Is $2,000 a year enough money to make a reel difference? Or should I just throw it all in an index fund?

TreeEater
TreeEater

@askme
Throw $1500 into Vanguard and gamble the remaining $500 on Robinhood with /rhg/

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@TreeEater

Thx for the reply.

Any index you'd recommend from VG?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@TreeEater
Is Robin Hood legit? (I.e. Not a scam?)

And how long does it take to sign up?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@JunkTop

You sound like you know quite a lot about investing bro. What's your opinion on the idea that all stock market indices are overpriced because of all the 401k's being loaded with equities?

5mileys
5mileys

@Garbage Can Lid
I do know a lot about investing, which is why I can't give you a definitive answer to your question. No one can predict the future of the markets, certainly not in the short-term. You should ignore anyone who claims otherwise.

I certainly have concerns about the current market levels, not so much because of anything to do with 401ks, but simply because of the price levels themselves. We're clearly above historical averages; that can't be denied.

But historical averages are only good until they get updated by new history. For all the challenges in the markets these days, especially overseas, there's still many reasons to expect that the markets will continue to show the kind of long-term growth that they have for 90 years. Nothing has changed so fundamentally in the world as to lead me to believe that there is any better place to put money than public stock and bond markets. Populations are still growing, demand is still rising, technology is still advancing, and more and more people live in capitalist and quasi-capitalist economies. All of that points to the market's long-term history of growth continuing for many years to come. Maybe with some speed-bumps along the way, but upwards nonetheless.

And so you know that I put my money where my mouth is, despite any fears that I might have had, I just put six figures of new money into the markets less than three weeks ago. I believe in the research that shows the best time to invest is when you have money to invest, provided that you've in it for the long-term.

In short, no, I don't think the markets are overpriced, and I myself am putting substantial new money in the markets and will continue to do so.

Techpill
Techpill

@JunkTop

hi there, I'm retarded. I've recently begun looking into index funds, and I (independently of the Japan and Europe guy) realised what he's posting, about shit like the FTSE and whatever. Should I just invest in the S&P or what? His posts do make sense...

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Techpill
Should I just invest in the S&P or what?
No, that would be a mistake. The S&P 500 represents only large-cap domestic stocks. While this is a very important asset class (arguably the most important), it excludes several other asset classes that have been shown to increase your expected rate of return without adding additional risk.

Look into a Vanguard Target Date Retirement Fund, or Google "four fund portfolio" to learn more.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Firespawn
Why four fund portfolio over three fund portfolio?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@SniperGod
https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/icrifi_032012_high.pdf

This explains it much better than I can. In short, a small allocation to international bonds should add to your long-term return without adding additional risk.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Sir_Gallonhead
It's legit, and pretty damn easy to use.

Basically game-ifies trading.

I started with $400, lost like $150, and made it all back and then some.

It's really just gambling, unless you actually do your research.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Sir_Gallonhead
@Need_TLC

What's a good index fund to invest in from Vanguard?

And how long would you keep your money in there for? (20 years or all the way to retirement???)

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@5mileys
Smart user what is considered long term? I save a large portion of my income to put into 401k, roth, index funds, etc and will likely be able to retire by 35 (25 now). Is this considered long term enough?

Booteefool
Booteefool

@BlogWobbles
you lost literally ANY credibility when you said "sigh".

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@5mileys
thank u

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Garbage Can Lid
I'm not sure I follow your question. Even if you plan to retire in 10 years, you're investments are still going to have to work for you or there's no way your money will last. Your financial plan and investment horizon still needs to cover you going forward.

You've still got at least 40 investing years ahead of you. Its just that if you pull off your plan, then your resources and needs are going to change dramatically at year 10 of the plan. Regardless, you should still be playing the long-term game.

@Lunatick
The Target Retirement funds are a good place to start. And yes, you leave your money in as long as possible. The longer its invested, the faster it compounds and the more it grows.

There are very few acceptable reasons to dip into your savings. First house, wedding, medical emergency, job loss. But short of major life event or critical need, you let it ride.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@hairygrape
This.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@hairygrape
What fucking index are you looking at? NASDAQ? Bc it's at 5,034 bud. No other index in the US has touched 5k and not gotten back above it. Try harder and cope less.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Booteefool
That is ad hominem.

TechHater
TechHater

@Evilember
implying 10% growth compounded is the same as 10% loss compounded arithmetically
it's not. that graph is retarded. you're retarded. do you even know basic math?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Raving_Cute
the people who trade the market well enough to beat out competition generally work at banks, and make more money than they wold telling someone on a chinese masturbation board.

just because most people and even most TRADERS aren't capable of understanding doesn't mean that there isn't someone who can understand it. you're not a genius. you don't know everything, but what you SHOULD know is that if there is someone who is genuinely smart than you, you will be sufficiently stupid to not be able to tell the difference between what he says and nonsense.

this is the same reason we don't invite papuan hunter gatherers to physics symosiums.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Fuzzy_Logic

@Raving_Cute
Show me some evidence that skill, effort, experience, education or resources makes one iota of difference to active trading results. Fama already proved that the outliers are just lucky -- i.e., lottery ticket winners. Prove him wrong and maybe you'll get a Nobel Prize too.

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