Why buy used? i mean, sure, grab a $3000 cash car

Nojokur
Nojokur

used car is 10% cheaper

new car has 0% interest loan

why buy used? i mean, sure, grab a $3000 cash car. but we can't drive corollas forever.

who is throwing 15k+cash at once? you must be rich as hell. i would rather make some payments and put the rest of that into something that makes money, rather than a glorified utility like an automobile

All urls found in this thread:
http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
https://gwgwheels.com/vlog/item/43-infiniti-q40-awd-2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqpCXKfvUEg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmpICSpni1A
Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

can't drive corollas forever

Why the hell not?

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Nojokur
but we can't drive corollas forever.

Why not exactly?

My last 3 cars have been used subarus that I pitched shortly after they hit 200k. Haven't paid more than 5000 for a car ever. I just let a broker find me a single owner one with full maintenance logs in excellent condition.

Buying new cars is a waste of money. They are consumable goods, and their depreciation is not linear. Buying 50k cars that have minimal maintenance problems is vastly more efficient. If you want a new car for whatever reason, you are wasting money. That's your choice. It's not like dealerships are going to provide a better experience than a good mechanic.

Buy a shitbox with good safety ratings and maybe splurge on a few nice features like heated seats. Slap a 2.5 million comprehensive insurance policy on it so you don't have to worry about who pays to reattach your legs if you get broad sided by a freight train and stop giving a shit.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Nojokur
buy new car
work hard to pay it off
now you have equity in car
automated cars become industry standard
insurance for meat popsicle controlled vehicles skyrockets
used car market crashes virtually overnight
vehicles now only worth their value in scrap metal
this is happening in 5 years

Lease your car like a smart person.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Crazy_Nice
This.

Not everyone grew up in burgerland, where you are trained to value your self worth by the car you own from the age of 3.

massdebater
massdebater

@SomethingNew
There's no reason insurance would increase for human drivers.

The average family wont have autonomous cars for a good 15 years.

Inmate
Inmate

my car is a 1997 sentra. got it for 1k.. I dont really see the point of buying brand new. A vehicle is just a lump of metal to take you from A to B nothing more

likme
likme

@massdebater
the Internet will never take off. Your average family won't have a desktop computer in their home for another 15 years.

Yes I'll take "famous last words" for 500, Alex.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Nojokur
I have never seen a 0% loan. Why would this even be a thing
@SomethingNew
dumbest thing ive read all day

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@lostmypassword

Autism: the post.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@lostmypassword
Manufacturers offer 0% 5 year notes. They make money off moving vehicles, not $2000 interest over half a decade.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@lostmypassword
Because they only offer the 0% loan if you meet certain specific conditions. They inflate the price of the car. Sure you aren't paying 'interest', but you are paying just as much, if not more.

There's no reason to ever buy a car in person. Find what you want, and let a broker handle the acquisition for you. It usually costs a few hundred dollars, and it will almost always save you money. Sometimes thousands.

Evilember
Evilember

@Skullbone
Literally never seen this except for brand new cars

SniperGod
SniperGod

@likme
The internet didnt have to go through a mass of beaurocratic red tape. Automated cars will be what your kids buy after they graduate college

SniperWish
SniperWish

@lostmypassword
why would a car dealership offer 0% financing?
TO SELL A FUCKING CAR BRO

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Evilember
And that's why I mentioned 0% specifically for a new car and compared that to the initial savings of a used vehicle?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@RavySnake
The post i replied to didnt say new. Why would you ever buy new? Your car significantly depreciates the day you drive it off the lot. New cars are for suckers

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Nojokur
because Americans are fucking cucks.

be me, win pic related (Infinity Q40 AWD, 5k miles) on Copart for 8k
spend 6k fixing it up into perfect condition
drive a 40k car for only 15k (dmv fees, etc, included)

TechHater
TechHater

@DeathDog
Who the fuck wants to fix a car? Id rather buy something that runs for 5k than buy a bunch of work for any price

eGremlin
eGremlin

@SomethingNew
Automated cars probably won't even become standard by the time you die

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@TechHater
Nothing stops you from hiring a mechanic.

Flipping cars can be quite profitable as a hobby. You pay mechanics to do some of the difficult stuff, and fine tune things yourself. I don't personally do it, but I know plenty of people that do.

FastChef
FastChef

@TechHater
I make a living doing that. Buy cheap cars for $500 on Craigslist, fix it up and then resell it for $3000-$4000.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

I'm fine with driving a corolla and Camry forever. I have a 2005 Camry, expect it live past 200k. Why waste your money if it still can get you from point A to point B safely. Salesmen and the auto companies will need to do more to get me to fork the bucks for a new car that loses half of its value when you put the key in the ignition and turn it on.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@eGremlin

Cool meme grandpa, thanks for the bday card btw!

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@TechHater
a fucking shop does. i will drive this for a few months and sell for 25k and make 10k profit. keep driving your shitty 2001 honda civic and spending thousands on maintenance.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@AwesomeTucker
@Burnblaze
Thats all well and good if thats how you want to spend your free time. But dude was implying youre a cuck not to go get a bargain out of the scrapheap. I disagree with that thesis

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@TechHater
C U C K

Nojokur
Nojokur

@GoogleCat

Who buys a car that was in that bad of an accident? Lol

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Nojokur
someone who can take it to a frame shop and get it pulled into perfect condition for $400. once that's done, buy the pieces and put it together like lego.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Nojokur
also, hope you like it

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@GoogleCat
My toyota is 18 years old and ive only ever performed basic maintenance and replaced one alternator. And i dont want to spend my free time working. Much rather enjoy some beers on the lake or at a ball game. But you do you

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Fried_Sushi
your corolla depreciated so much in value over 18 years that you have lost big $$$.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Dreamworx
And quit pretending thats your car faggot

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Garbage Can Lid
Yes im sure the 3500 i put into it has slightly depreciated. Might only sell for 3000 now

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Sir_Gallonhead
http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Boy_vs_Girl
Thats a pretty sweet irrelevant link. Heres a link you might like
https://gwgwheels.com/vlog/item/43-infiniti-q40-awd-2015

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Soft_member
Thx for the ad revenue

Techpill
Techpill

Pic related is my car, if your wondering about the stickers, they add 5 horsepower per sticker, and the minions make it more aerodynamic when I'm going down the track at 350 MPH

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Garbage Can Lid
Those of us buying 4k used cars don't really care. I fully expect to drive this car into the ground, at that point when I have more disposal income, sure maybe I'll get something a little nicer,

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Nojokur
You're all fucking cucks if you don't steal cars.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@lostmypassword
You're all fucking white if you don't steal cars.

Fixed

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Techpill
Thanks for sharing, man. Enjoyed your post.

JunkTop
JunkTop

As a mechanic I would say, never buy a new car if you don't want to waste your money.

Just buy a middle to end 90's car. The parts are cheap and you can fix the most stuff by yourself. I've bought a Opel astra f caravan 5 years ago with 210.000km (I live in germany...). Insurance is about 40€ per month and car tax 108€ per year. I've spent < 300€ till now for parts and tires. Sure I'm able to repair the car by myself, but everyone with an IQ > 50 could fix it too (and by the way you maybe learn something which you could use to make some money. I talk about oil change, break jobs or other easy stuff)

Booteefool
Booteefool

Do you guys not realize the stupidity in constantly buying 3k dollar shit boxes? Do the math, you buy each car on its death bed practically, and if by the grace of God you can squeeze 20k miles out of it before it blows up or shits itself causing you to drop another 1k on it in repairs, consider yourself lucky. The smarts behind buying a new car aren't as obvious as most, but they're certainly not nonexistent. Sure, you pay the price of 5-7 of those shit can cars, but one of the things you're paying for is risk management. You'll have a bunch of warranties and guarantees for a long ass time. And even after they're up, the car itself will most likely run until the 200k mark before you'd have to sell it.

3-5k for each 10-20k miles if you're lucky = a fuck load of risk and a fuck load of cost.

15-20k for each 200k miles with countless guarantees, not to mention both comfort and peace of mind = half the price with more than double the safety and reliability.

It's like you retards have never had a math course in your life.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

OP, it really depends on the type of car.

For typical sedans, i would probably go used. Howevever, my job requires a reliable pickup truck, so I looked into tacomas.

To my amazement those trucks with 100k miles and five years old still sell for above $18k. So i said fuck it and dropped 25k on a brand new one. Couldnt be happier.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Booteefool

It's really comes down to what the person is worth. For low net worth people, rather than spending too much, it's a better value for them to spend their time fixing run down used vehicles.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Bidwell
I get what you mean, but still; it's more cost effective AND lower risk to buy new, even on a higher interest loan. Not to mention other people around notice that too, and by that, think of you as smarter more practical, if that's important to you.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@JunkTop
Yeah I'm all for buying used cars, but that thing is going to be 80% rust in the next year, if it isn't already.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Nojokur
but we can't drive corollas forever

my 24 year old corolla would like to have a word with you

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

buying cars at all

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Booteefool

says others can't math
can't into math himself

You're ignoring that new cars cost more in monthly insurance than old cars, that old cars are cheaper to repair because the parts can be gotten secondhand and the labor is generally easier, that you need to pay sales tax on it which is larger on an expensive car, that new cars are more of a security risk because people target them for theft, break ins, or random damage. Also, if you pay 5k for a car, it's a pretty damn decent car and can easily get 70-100k miles on it. A shitbox that will only last 10k miles is a 1000 dollar one. Also, not all new cars get 200k miles, many die at 150k. People who own new cars also replace them every few years with a new model, selling the old for a fraction of what they paid for it. You're also forgetting cars rapidly depreciate, so if you always buy new cars you're getting ripped off because what you spend 20k on will be worth 10k in three short years. Then there's the time value of money, if you buy a new car you're tying up more of your cash in it, as opposed to buying used and investing the difference.

Read a fucking book you stupid little kid.

farquit
farquit

Drove a couple of early 90's cars to death. My 91 Nissan 300zx died last year and I decided to buy new. I figure if I can get 5-7 years out of a shitheap I'll drive this Subaru for 20+ years and won't have to worry about my car not starting or dying on me. I bought new mostly because I only drive manual and I guess they pretty much stopped making new cars with that option 10 years ago so I had to order one.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@King_Martha
You sir are the smartest guy in this tread.

idontknow
idontknow

@King_Martha
were can I find said brokers?

Techpill
Techpill

Just listen to @AwesomeTucker
He knows what he's taking about.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Booteefool

This guy gets it.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@DeathDog
Ok Borat...

Nojokur
Nojokur

used car is 10% cheaper

If you're financial choice is to buy a used car at only 10% difference then you're already retarded

Used cars are almost always upwards of 1000% cheaper after as little as 5 years.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@King_Martha
i keked outloud at work about the insurance policy.

WebTool
WebTool

@BunnyJinx
oh cool, you saw a tech demo on youtube.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Booteefool
I bought a van for 3500$ cash. I put 1200$ into it to replace engine. That's 4700$

I've driven it for the last 7 years, put well over 100,000 km on it.

I do my own repairs, and get all my parts from a salvage yard or cheap from local parts stores who always give me a good price. Never even seen a shop except for the engine swap.

This van was almost 40k brand new.

How the fuck was that a waste of my money?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

I am a car salesman.

0%-0.9% is a gimmick. It isually requires enough down payment and a really good credit score to where we make as nuch money as a normal finance.

People walk in cocky all the time saying "imma pay cash, whats your best deal" well honestly we want you to finance bc we get money from the banks to finance you and a cash deal is usually a lot less money.

Leasing is the smartest way to go, otherwise just pay $1000 for a car and ride it out.

Also due to a thing called the NADA we really cant rip you off. No reputable dealership can sell you an overpriced car bc the bank wont accept it. Those were the old days.

Also, if you are a dick and come in with a "i want the best deal or im gonna shop around" attitide I will most likely ask to give you a worse deal, fuck you for being a dick. If you come in and act like a normal human being and I feel like I can drink a beer with you, there will be no negotiation, i will try to hook you up.

Also, we get paid a portion of commision with bonuses set by units sold, but the individual deal is a lot more than the bonus.

The job is rediculously stressful. Some weeks you make $200, some weeksyou make $3,000. Its crazy as hell and I dont recommend it unless you are a crazy motherfucker.

farquit
farquit

Also car salesman here, dont talk shit about Carollas, Toyotas and Honda run for FUCKING EVER. Thats why they hold value for so long.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Nojokur
Hey guys watch this video register on the link and earn free bitcoins every hour, along the way multiply your bitcoins by playing a simple game of HI-LOW, get your own bitcoin wallet and store your money in a safe place tax-free, it's scam free and you just have to invest a li'l bit of time, ENJOY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqpCXKfvUEg

idontknow
idontknow

@Harmless_Venom
Too few people realise this. The days of being one step ahead of the salesman are in the past and negotiation in general is a dying or dead art in most industries. The science of maximum profit by best price for the customer was worked out by the newer companies a long time ago.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Harmless_Venom
Leasing is the smartest way to go, otherwise just pay $1000 for a car and ride it out.

tfw I'm 28 and have leased every vehicle ever since learning the hard way about the "buying is smarter than leasing!" meme
tfw leasing is so obviously the smartest option it's absolutely confounding why anyone thinks buying a car is a smart choice

Fuck it feels good man. Brand new car every 3 years, 100% peace of mind, never have to deal with a single maintenance issue all for the low monthly cost of $275/month with $0 down, didn't even pay taxes.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@PackManBrainlure
it's more cost effective AND lower risk to buy new, even on a higher interest loan.

Except it's not if you aren't buying shitty American cars that implode after 30,000 miles.

I drive my cars until they start to need frequent heavy maintenance. For subaru's that seems to be around 200-250k miles. For the toyotas my family drives that's closer to 300k. My mother's manual corolla recently ticked over 500,000. I prefer the subarus because I drive everywhere in New England, and the AWD is worth a bit of extra cost to me. A new subaru with the features I have would cost 30,000+. A used one with 50,000 miles can be easily gotten for less than 10 grand. It's not worth 20,000 dollars to go 50,000 miles when I can go 150,000 for 10. The maintenance costs for the car are relatively static throughout that period.

Cars do not depreciate linearly. Because of that, buying lowish mileage used ones is enormously cheaper. I will grant that buying 1000 dollar rustbuckets is not a good idea, but used is by far more economical in the long term if you put any thought into what you buy.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@idontknow
I found a couple through my credit union. You could probably find something through google. They are obviously more common around larger cities. Once you find a few, you'll find more, because they sort of operate like real estate agents.

I love working with brokers. I specify what I want, down to a mileage range, the condition, and even the color and features. They find stuff for me, and arrange for comprehensive inspections, clear titles, service records, and any other nagging pieces of paperwork. Hell, sometimes it's worth shipping a car across the country. You'd never find a car 2000 miles away from you without a broker, and that's exactly what happened with my current car. Middle of the country, low miles, no rust, perfect maintenance, with all the bells and whistles (LLbean edition outback), 43k miles. 5200 dollars with brokerage fees and shipping to New England included. All I did was fill out some paperwork, and released the hounds. Month later I picked it up at the DMV and registered it on the spot.

@King_Martha
I'm honestly continuously astounded at how fucking cheap people are on insurance. For many people, getting 100-250k policies would cost them 100-150 bucks a year.

I have a comprehensive commercial policy on my vehicle. I am insured for up to 2.5 million. Anyone else who is in my vehicle is insured for 1 million on top of that, so even if I alone suck up 2.5 million, any passengers I have still have incredible coverage. You know how much it costs me over having the state minimum? 230 dollars a year. It literally costs me less than a meal at a good restaurant every month. I have a perfect driving record, a 2000 dollar deductible, which is moderately high, and drive an extremely safe and durable car. 220 dollars a year, and giving a fuck is no longer part of my job description.

massdebater
massdebater

@Harmless_Venom
@Firespawn
Leasing is only good if you don't drive a lot. It's peace of mind, but you do pay a premium for it. It is substantially cheaper to buy used, and keeping up on routine maintenance prevents nearly all problems. The problem that people have when they buy cars is that they fail to do proper maintenance, or they just refuse to let go of the car until they are sinking far too much into the vehicle. I said I pitch my cars when they get to 200k. That's right before major problems tend to crop up on the cars I buy. Get out while you are ahead, and don't get stuck in the sunk cost fallacy of thought.

A good mechanic will take care of you and let you know about future problems before they crop up so that you can take care of multiple potential issues at once and save money on labor, and not get stranded. As an example, I just replaced my brake calipers. He noticed them last time I replaced the tires and said I should do it in the next 30-40 thousand miles. 33 thousand miles later, and while the tires are off, I got new calipers. Like everything else in life, it's networking. Find good people, and pay them for their time.

Besides that nobody would ever lease to me. I drive 25k miles every year. 2 years ago I did 40k because of some logistical clusterfucks on delayed projects. By the time you factor in all the fees I'd eat for driving so much, it's actually cheaper to buy a new car outright than to lease.

Techpill
Techpill

@Nojokur
well if you get zero interest payment for your car go ahead. dont tie cash to car if you can avoid it. but usually the car loans are shitty.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@GoogleCat
spending thousands on maintenance
he doesn't know how to maintain his own car
he doesn't network and have friends who can fix his car if it is above his knowledge level
he doesn't just ride until it dies and pays shit for insurance
Jesus, you're retarded. Every "problem" my car has had I Googled and fixed in an hour except one. That one exception I called my grease monkey friend and bought him a 6 pack for his hard work.

Some people are just retarded, you might want to consider going to these great websites next time your car has a problem:
www.google.com
www.youtube.com

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@TreeEater
fixing a car without experience is totally out of question. one does not simply google how to fix car other than how to change oil lol

Emberburn
Emberburn

@TreeEater
Doing everything yourself is for people who's time is not valuable. Being unable or unwilling to pay someone to solve a problem well is the sign of someone who lacks forethought. This is the same sort of person who is surprised when things go wrong in the future.

It is not worth my time when I can just hire a professional to get it done right, and get it done fast. A true professional also makes me aware of future issues, so I can plan around them, and often solve them before they occur, which is typically far cheaper in the long run.

You are advocating that everyone should act like a poor person.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Nojokur
buy a 15k $ car
"make some payments"
pay 20-25k
Wut? How is this a good deal?

TechHater
TechHater

@Nojokur
paying interest on a depreciating asset
good
'no'

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@TechHater
That isn't automatically a bad thing. If the interest is lower than some other loan, it's still better so you can more efficiently leverage your assets.

20,000 car loan at 2% with a 180,000 personal loan at 5% vs buying the car outright and a 200,000 personal at 5%.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Nojokur
but we can't drive corollas forever.
I have an acquaintance with almost a million miles on his 1975 Corolla wagon.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@New_Cliche
Does he live in an area that doesn't have winter? Any car past 300k where I'm from tends to be a rust bucket.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@likme
I keked at your observation. I'm an oldfag. My wife use to work for Wang Industries. They were the first to put desktop computer software in auto dealerships. One day in 1977 she came home and told me "soon everyone will have a computer on their desk at home.." and I ridiculed her and said "that would never happen because who would need one???'

Yes. I've heard that story every year at Christmas since 1983.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@TechHater
New car has a 0% loan
Some reading comprehension, huh?

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Dreamworx
Fort Worth, TX. So, not much salt/rust to worry about here. Good point.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Emberburn
doing everything yourself is for people whose time is not valuable

My passive income is enough to where dicking around on a car for 5 hours covers the cost of parts and more. If I can fix it myself with a simple google search, why pay someone to google and fix it for me, especially if it's more than it's worth?

I don't need to pay a mechanic to replace an air filter, I don't need some in training dope to replace a spark plug for me, that noise is for people too stupid to realize it's an unnecessary expendature.

likme
likme

@w8t4u

Not everyone grew up in burgerland, where you are trained to value your self worth by the car you own from the age of 3.

Studies show that people who drive expensive, well-kept cars experience lower travel times, fewer instances of road rage, etc. It's a fact: drive a nice car and people get out of your way.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Nojokur
The same eurocuck who would buy a poorboi meme car like an infinity lol

Emberburn
Emberburn

@cum2soon
Hobbies are an entirely separate issue. Don't confuse the two. You do hobbies for fun. You do work yourself to save money when the opportunity cost of time lost is less than the cost of the work. The two are not in any way similar.

A smart man is one who can accurately weigh the value of his time, and who can choose to 'waste' his time despite knowing exactly what it costs him. Poor people very frequently lack this ability, and as such they spend inordinate amounts of time trying to cobble together cheap solutions that frequently cost them more money and far more time in the long run.

It's not worth my time to do anything beyond the most basic of basic maintenance on my car. I don't enjoy it, and I'm not a master at that craft. I can't see many future problems unless they are pointed out to me. I don't know how to, and don't have the equipment to solve complex car problems on my own. I accept that. I have plenty of hobby interests that are not efficient uses of my time. I accept that as well. I enjoy doing them. That's why I do them.

If you enjoy wrench slinging, power to you. I don't enjoy it, and there is no economic reason for me to bother learning the finer details. If you choose to do it despite not being interested in it as a hobby, you either make less than I do and thus aren't losing as much losing a weekend doing personal projects, or you are thinking like a poor person and would be far better off behaving differently.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@PackManBrainlure
It's all fucking mechanical, except for major problems. There's no reason you couldn't do the nigger shit like fixing breaks.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@SniperGod
Why would I waste a day doing that when paying a professional with the proper equipment takes less than an hour, and costs far less than I make in that day?

I could work part of the day, then chose to waste money doing something I actually enjoy, still have more money at the end of the day, and have the problem solved by a licensed professional who will do the job correctly.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@likme
implying that's not just because we don't give a shit about trash yuppie drivers and their insane lane hopping
If you don't wanna merge normally, either wait on the side of the road or ram my car bitch. I could replace the entire thing in my garage

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@JunkTop
In america theres not really any reason to change your own oil. What places charge for an oil change is barely more than what you could buy 5 quarts of oil for anyways

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Booteefool
This is one of the dumbest posts ive ever seen on Veeky Forums

happy_sad
happy_sad

I own a 1995 Camry SE Coupe.
Not an LE, Not an XLE. Totally different cars.
200HP
200ftlb tq
Much faster great ratios
Faster transmission
All original
1 owner
Near mint
0-60 in about 7 seconds
Paid $5000 5 years ago
$3000 of that was from insurance after my other car was totalled.
Now has 220k+ miles
Still runs like new and looks amazing.

5mileys
5mileys

Why buy a car at all when there are things called "bicycles" and "public transport"? People who drive aren't very good with their finances.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Need_TLC

Thanks for corroborating, that's pretty funny.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Harmless_Venom
If you follow the ol' 20/4/10 (20% down, 48 months, 10% of monthly income) rule and have good credit like a responsible American, the 0% isn't a gimmick.

I made this thread assuming SOUND financial decision making in all aspects. A quality cash car for a reasonable price. A new car with a good loan deal. Etc.

This thread isn't about 20% loans at Larry's Used Car Hut.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@BlogWobbles
I made this thread assuming SOUND financial decision making in all aspects
Advocates buying new cars.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Fried_Sushi
I don't advocate anything. This is meant to be a discussion. I was reminding people that you're comparing apples and oranges when you present the ideal of a situation on one side and a non-ideal on the other.

"Everyone says it's right so it's right!" is not a valid argument for either side.

I just wanted to see what the For's and Against's had to say.

5mileys
5mileys

@5mileys
Not everyone lives in los angeles you thick cunt

askme
askme

@DeathDog
Wagecuck philosophy

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Spamalot
"Everyone says it's right so it's right!" is not a valid argument for either side.
I just wanted to see what the For's and Against's had to say.

So the mountains of reasoning aren't valid? It's a well established fact that new cars depreciate enormously shortly after purchase. Because of that it's far cheaper to buy a lightly used car and then drive it for a while than it is to buy new and drive it to the same point. It's even more expensive to buy new car and replace it with another new car every few years.

There isn't a debate here. New cars are more expensive for a number of reasons. There is no economic incentive to buy a new car. The only valid reason for buying new is because you want to. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. It's a personal choice with your money. If you acknowledge that you are making a non ideal financial decision and are still OK with it, good for you. Just don't pretend that it is ideal. That makes you stupid.

@askme
Efficient time management letting me do something I enjoy instead of spending an entire day doing something I hate is wagecuck philosophy.

That's practically the exact opposite of wagecuck philosophy. Even if I hated my work, which I don't, I'd still be ahead of spending the day working on my car.

WebTool
WebTool

they only time a reasonable person will ever spend more then 3-5k on a car is when you don't use it anymore to come from A to B but rather want it as a status symbol.
Before that anything above 5k is a waste of money which will 'decay' faster than anything else
Under 3k is risky if you don't really know the seller or the car. Very useful if u know a carmechanic or something related who can look at the thing and tell you which costs are probably going to come at you the next 1/3/5 years

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Techpill
Everybody else puts bondo on the rusted out holes but I said the hell with it, I'll leave em there for the weight reduction.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Nojokur
Used cars are almost always upwards of 1000% cheaper after as little as 5 years.

Thats pretty cheap

Booteefool
Booteefool

@SomethingNew

Insurance won't be high since automated cars are going to be 10x safer than regular human drivers.

@eGremlin

The Tesla fleet alone is going to take off hugely in the next three years, let alone what Uber and BMW are doing right now. And then there's the Chinese car companies. Those are just the ones at the front, every major car company has some plan for automated vehicles. This shit is coming fast.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Booteefool
For now it's tied to expensive luxury cars though, and the tech is deeply limited. Tesla's can't function outside of an extremely narrow range of conditions, and google cars are limited to a snails pace, and still have serious limitations on where they can go. The tech is coming, but it's a long ways off.

Then, there's commercial vehicles. Transitions for semis, buses, and anything with odd duties like dump trucks, street sweepers, etc are going to be significantly delayed. Many commercial vehicles see 30+ years of use, and multiple millions of miles. Same deal with farm equipment (which is a HUGE industry for automation.)

Then there's the legislative side of things. There's going to be paranoia about self driving cars, and laws will be passed regulating the safety of the equipment. People already suck at maintaining cars. Automated vehicles essentially require what amounts to an avionics package. Cameras, lidar, and all sorts of other things are going to need constant scrutiny, and regulation to ensure proper safety. The cars need to have adequate fallback options when the automated systems fail. Couple that with how people are going to drive aggressively around automatic cars because the cars will always yield, and you've got a nightmare on your hand.

Don't get me wrong. I've driven around in a Tesla with all the latest bells and whistles. The lane keeping tech is very nice. The only feature I really want right now is the TACC. Makes long distance highway driving, which I do a ton of, practically effortless. It's legitimately a clear cut improvement over traditional cruise control, and the equipment failure fallback options for it are very basic (you can just have it become normal cruise control).

Again, the tech is coming, but it's not going to happen quickly, and there will be push back.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Harmless_Venom
lol i met car sales people like you. i like to fuck you guys up to. now that old salesperson still has the same car sitting on his lot, and every 2 weeks i give him a call and ask, "hey is it sold yet? you've been telling me you're meeting people that are interested in the car. just to let you know, my current off is $xxk"

And every 2 weeks I drop it by 1k to keep lowballing him. Because i know he won't sell it. And if he wants to be a dick, I can be a dick all day too. Plenty of sales people on autotrader to mess around with. I even have emails asking "what did you close the deal for?", and I just respond, "does it matter? I asked for the lowest deal, I gave you a chance, and you didn't give it to me."

Emberfire
Emberfire

Just ride a bike.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Booteefool
Insurance won't be high since automated cars are going to be 10x safer than regular human drivers.

That's precisely what I was implying, are you retarded? Top kek. Human drivers' insurance will skyrocket, idiot.

5mileys
5mileys

@lostmypassword
I have never seen a 0% loan. Why would this even be a thing

They exist. You are charged 0% interest, but if you look at the fine print, you will pay $xxx/per $1,000 financed up front.

The dealership/finance department also hopes you will miss a payment so it goes fro 0% to 30% financing overnight.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@likme
actually believing this

Spamalot
Spamalot

@5mileys
That figure is merely how much you pay per month on a 60 month note with 0 interest. Do the math on it.

16.67 * 20 (as in thousands) = ~333.34

It's not a hidden fee. It's for people who don't own financial calculators.

likme
likme

@PackManBrainlure
I'm not sure how dumb someone can be but I think you're hitting the bottom end.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@likme
bottom end of how dumb you can be
i.e. pretty smart
rekt

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Booteefool
I agree with this, I wouldn't buy a new car, but a gently used relatively recent year car seems like a good long-term value, even if you pay more up front. Maintenance will be needed on any car, but older cars I feel require more maintenance than a gently used one, which don't have as many issues.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Emberfire
not everyone lives in los angeles fagoot

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Nude_Bikergirl
i feel sorry for how dumb you are

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@PackManBrainlure
I haven't taken a car to the shop to have anything fixed except a tie rod end I couldn't be fucked to fix, and I've been to driving for ~20 years.
It's not complicated. Chilton's and Haynes manuals exist for a reason.
You can moan about how much your time is worth, but that isn't gonna matter much when Johnny Right n' Tight strips your oil pan plug with his impact wrench.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

I work for a captive auto lender and get 0% financing when I buy certain cars from my brand. I also get a discount for the car itself.

I've seen a lot of varied opinions on car financing from the consumer standpoint. The only real conclusions I've reached are:

1.Cash down is king
2. It's okay to finance your car and low rates/payments are pretty easy to obtain if your credit is good
3. If you have bad credit, a car loan will likely fuck your shit up senpai
4. There's no reason to pay more than 5% APR
6. It's okay to lease if you know you won't be putting a lot of miles on the unit

It took a while for that last one to make sense to me. But I've seen people get leases with $80 monthly payments. It makes more sense to do something like that and just pay for a rental if you go on a road trip or something.

Spamalot
Spamalot

I can throw 15k at a car at once because i've been budgeting for it for a decade. Then that car will last me at least another decade.

likme
likme

@Stark_Naked
If a mechanic fucks up my car, he will fix it at his expense. A good mechanic will not charge you for their mistakes, and will be upfront about them. I've gotten a new transmission for free because they dropped the old one and cracked the case when their lift failed. Not a big deal. Even with the best mechanic, shit happens sometimes. It's how they handle it that separates the good ones. If he doesn't tell me he fucked it up, passed it off, I'll find out eventually, take it elsewhere, and send him a demand letter for the cost, then sue him if he doesn't comply.

You aren't under any obligation to play their game, let alone play fairly. If they fuck up, hire someone to drop a nuke on them. You'll get it all back anyways. I've done this. It's very straightforward. Most states have very strict regulations for mechanics. Find a good honest mechanic, and let a lawyer deal with the shitty ones. Usually they pay when it goes to court.

As long as the shop is open, there's assets you can take with a writ. No shop on earth is going to let you walk off with their toolchest when they can give you a few thousand in cash. See what they do when your lawyer shows up with a moving company and several officers and tells them they can either pay you, or they will take every tool, and every piece of equipment including computers, security systems, spare tires, parts, chairs, desks, etc that isn't bolted down, and sell it all at auction. If it ever gets to that point, they will comply, and you will win, or they won't comply, you'll still win, and they get ruined because they lost all their equipment and cant do any work.

It's a business transaction. Nothing more. If someone doesn't uphold their end of the deal, force them into doing so. Honest business is cheaper. Let them learn that the hard way if they want to be stubborn about it. Once you've released the lawyers, it's no longer your problem to worry about.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Skullbone

Stop projecting.

Methshot
Methshot

@Crazy_Nice
But I've seen people get leases with $80 monthly payments.

The fuck. What, do they drive less than 100 miles a month or something?

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Methshot
Usually it's because they have really good credit, there's some kind of subverted leasing program going on, and they put a decent chunk of money down. I think the lowest monthly payment I've seen on a lease that we funded was $50/mo.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@TreeEater
lots of money down

Ah, that explains it. One way or another you pay.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@likme
If a mechanic fucks up my car, he will fix it at his expense
O i am laffin

WebTool
WebTool

@Playboyize
im rubber youre glue
fuck off man go read a fucking book

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@5mileys
Why buy bicycles or use public transport when there are things called "legs"?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Nude_Bikergirl
Don't skip leg day bro.

Techpill
Techpill

350z with 80k miles @ $6000. Great deal or greatest deal ?

TechHater
TechHater

@Techpill
Meh deal

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Dreamworx
Wow are you a nigger? This looks like shit

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Dreamworx
why do people pretend? I mean, seriously. Type in the name of your car. Infinity Q40 AWD hit images in google and it's the tenth picture there. like seriously? hell we can even reverse image it.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Harmless_Venom
Also, if you are a dick and come in with a "i want the best deal or im gonna shop around" attitide I will most likely ask to give you a worse deal, fuck you for being a dick.

Someone is threatening to go to competition so you make sure he does? You know your job is to -sell- cars, don't you?

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Harmless_Venom
Lulz to the car salesman with the insider ideas. I bought a 2016 not two weeks ago. Walked in at nine am on a saturday and straight up told them my car died last night, I am here to buy a car today, and i have never bought a new car before... all true by the way. The salesmans eyes lit up like they were going to take me for a ride. Little did they know I knew exactly what car I was going to buy, how much it was really worth,other dealers prices, and all the incentives available. They gave me the runaround until they thought we had a deal and thats when I dropped the incentives that I conveniently forgot about. They gave me a rock bottom price and I fucked them hard. The sales manager came out of his office to talk to me and he was absolutely fuming mad. He tried to argue every technicality of every incentive I brought up and I straight up told him you can look it up if you want, but I know I'm right. They won't walk away from a sale because the real money is in long term buys and service repairs.
tldr; I made the dealer take a loss on my sale.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Nojokur
user car 10%
10%
Bought a 5 year old car for 12k with <10k miles.
original sticker price 32k
no accidents, everything works
I can sell it with 50k miles for 10-11k easy.
It's not a corolla
Too bad you fell for the new car meme, or even worse leasing a fucking car.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Carnalpleasure
lol
2016
believing dealership took a loss on your sale
come on bro the incentives come from the manufacturer. with holdbacks, I guarantee the dealership did not take a loss. Did they show you the "invoice" price and that's how you know they sold at a loss?

WebTool
WebTool

Why would self driving cars ever become a thing? Seems very inefficient and dangerous to trust robots. And if everyone wants to chill in the backseat instead of driving, why wouldnt you just implement more public transit?

Inb4 robots are magic

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@WebTool
Most people don't enjoy driving. And robots already drive better than most people cause most people also are also terrible drivers and would rather spend time on their phones or watching stupid shit.

don't trust robots
they don't engage in risky or illegal driving habits. These cars have more sensing capability than humans, don't get tired, and aren't shitty drivers, I don't understand your fear.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@SniperWish
come on bro the incentives come from the manufacturer. with holdbacks, I guarantee the dealership did not take a loss. Did they show you the "invoice" price and that's how you know they sold at a loss?
like I said I researched everything beforehand. when i dropped the incentives my salesman tried telling me the incentives were going to hurt them. I promptly replied but you told me this was a family owned dealership and I know incentives are paid through corporate... but we give you free oil changes. I can do that myself. But we give you roadside assistance... I have triple a. That's when the sales manager came out; the person that you don't get to meet when buying a new car. MSRP 25250 and I got it at 19100. Go ahead and try and tell me they didnt take a loss

TechHater
TechHater

@LuckyDusty
To take out the human factor out of driving a car is dangerous because driving a car in general is pretty dangerous compared to public transit. I'd be more comfortable if the robots would be on rails or flying from one set destination to another.

Plus there's the morality question, if a machine can save the lives of only some passangers, which ones would it choose and why?

eGremlin
eGremlin

@TechHater
You give people too much credit, the reason cars are dangerous is because people are terrible drivers. If all cars were robots then there would be no issues other than the occasional pedestrian collision.
morality question
reading too many news articles, most people don't make decisions on this during an accident, there's no reason to assume humans make better choices when there usually isnt a choice.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@WebTool
why wouldnt you just implement more public transit?

Public transit has schedules, and routing limitations. No matter what you do, it's going to have shortcomings over a car. That's before you get to any sort of commercial applications. A plumber isn't going to carry all of his tools in a pack. He's going to get a truck/transit van and bring tools and supplies with him.

girlDog
girlDog

@likme
this is your reasoning for spending an additional 20 grand on a car?

farquit
farquit

@RumChicken
it sounds like you got a fucking great deal, but they still made a tiny bit of money at 6k below msrp when all is said and done. This is the bit they've always done where they want you to think they will sell products for less than they pay for them but it's just flat out not true. use common sense. Whether by hitting a quota, actually coming in $50 above invoice minus holdbacks, or freeing up money to pay a ballon loan to avoid interest, they made a profit.

also most people meet the sales manager when buying a new car that's not a big deal.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@TechHater
morality

Just treat everything as a matter of self preservation above all. 3 laws stuff isn't some magical paradox. It's talking about contexts that don't occur, and are thus irrelevant. Your car does everything it possibly can to keep you safe. The cars around you do everything to keep their occupants safe. Because most cars aren't performing risky maneuvers, there's large margins allowing for relatively severe errors, or reckless behavior.

Everyone being out for themselves protects everyone else. Your car isn't going to tailgate closely forcing the car ahead of it to choose between running over a pedestrian or getting creamed by you. It's not going to want to run into the car in front of it. So the logical choice of action is to not drive aggressively, which gives the car in front the option of stopping. The car in front stops because it has room to because it detects the possibility of random pedestrians walking out from cover, and slows down accordingly.

This is just game theory. It actually functions similarly to vaccines. Because almost everyone is behaving safely, you can safely discount the negative consequences of most risks when you are actually forced to take them.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@farquit
This, sounds like he doesn't know about pack. The dealership needs to keep their lights on. Dealership might not have made any profit but they're always making money on the deal. Manufacturer rebates and shit go into the dealer's pocket anyway.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@girlDog
What's the difference between a cactus and a Mercedes Benz?

The cactus has its pricks on the outside of it.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

How about a used reliable motorcycle?

Even cheaper
Faster commute
Better parking
Simpler mechanically
Cheapo gas

Big insurance and a tad more dangerous
Easier to steal

For absolute poorfag this mite be a cool alternative.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Spamalot

It's really not difficult to find a nice, clean, and maintained model 3-7 years older (based on budget). You let the owner eat the depreciation costs and still get a decent car

King_Martha
King_Martha

@TalkBomber
leasing a fucking car.

mfw leasing unanimously considered the smartest option for acquiring a new vehicle.

Got some bad news for you, buddy.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@farquit

The dealership probably made a little money or at least gets a bump to hit quota but they definitely got mad because they thought he was going to pay sticker, slap on a warranty, etc etc etc

They thought they had $5000 but they probably made $500 tops. Someone got pissed because they thought they were eating steak for a week

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Nojokur
10%

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Booteefool
You let me know when I can buy a fully automated vehicle for 5k and I'll be happy to hop on the bandwagon

DeathDog
DeathDog

@SomethingNew
The avg person won't be able to afford the tech when it finally comes out anyways, couple that with the higher maintenance costs to keep these automated vehicles safe. Fuck even a used 2010 car with 100k KMs on it here is 15k+

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Garbage Can Lid
Only problem with motorcycles is that the mass amount of shitty drivers are even WORSE at seeing motorcycles for some stupid ass reason.
When riding a motorbike you're going to have to be paying attention to your surroundings 10 fold compared to driving a car. Everyone is blind as fuck when you're on a bike.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@King_Martha
being this much of a poorfag
You almost done paying that payday loan you got for the macbook bro?

JunkTop
JunkTop

spend 1000$
get reliable gas saving car that lasts me 5 years before it has major issues
rinse repeat and save tons of money

It's called being smart and doing your research

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Booteefool
I spent way less than 3K and my car has easily hit 50,000km

You just have to not be a fucking dumbass retard like most of Veeky Forums and know where to look for cheap cars. Auctions are the best places, i've seen people snag 3-4 year old cars with 40,000-50,000km on them fully loaded for only about 8,000$

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Ignoramus
Don't you need a dealer license to go to auctions like that?

Illusionz
Illusionz

@whereismyname
No, you can just show up to most of them, see if you have any locally

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

I think it really sucks how you gotta pay tax even when buying a used car literally every time that car is sold, someone pays tax on it where I live.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@BinaryMan

Entire thread substantiating the superiority of leasing.

B-buying is better t-than l-leasing, r-r-right guys?

Yikes.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Emberfire
damage control
It's ok, you'll figure it out one day ;^)

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@SomethingNew
dude if self driving cars will be a thing there will be upgrade kits for a few thousand bucks for just about any modern car. all it takes is a couple of sensors and an extra computer plugged into the can bus and a software upgrade.

DeathDog
DeathDog

The best car purchase is to get the car with the most depreciation and the least maintenance. It is what I call the "sweet spot" of car ownership. A new car will high depreciation and an old car will have high maintenance costs. Here is a video I made on that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmpICSpni1A

Inmate
Inmate

@DeathDog
The far reaching demographic of 4channers never ceases to amaze me. Not a bad video though desu. I myself have always been pretty wary of buying used. I think part of that is due to growing up in a family that constantly had new cars. I bought my current car new over a year ago and don't plan on getting another anytime in the near future. I think if I do though I will probably go used(unless I'm making a lot more money by then kek).

What's your opinion on leasing?

Techpill
Techpill

@King_Martha
maybe you lucked out with the subarus, I know they're dependable, but it's never clear how much more you're going to pay in repairs until you get to 200k miles. Add in the inconvenience of missing whatever thing you were traveling to when your car broke down, and a new, super reliable car doesn't look so bad.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Techpill
The one had a headgasket at ~160k, and lasted me till 220. Headgaskets were a known issue with that model of engine, so it's not like it was unexpected. Started leaking a bit before that and I just had them fix it and do some other shit all at once. That's really the only major repair I've had to deal with, and I knew it was a strong possibility long before it happened. Other than that most subaru's are quite reliable. It's mostly minor gremlins throughout the life of the vehicle. Shit like sway bar connections getting worn down. Nothing that makes the car impossible to drive, and any decent mechanic will know about them, and know how to spot them long before you should replace them, let alone have to.

The reason I pitch the cars in the 200-250k range is mostly rust. New England winters are fucking awful for cars, especially since I do a ton of work along the coast, so salt levels are off the charts. Once my mechanic tells me things are starting to show heavy wear, I tell my broker to let me know when he finds a replacement, and then I flip my car to a yard since it's well maintained, and they'll pay for good parts.

Maintenance on them is definitely higher than on a small toyota, I will grant that. They also do apparently start having major problems past 300-350k, but as I said, rust kills them here before that so it's not relevant. It's just a matter of circumstance. Buy the car that suits your needs at a low cost. As long as you are aware of potential costs, and factor them in, fuck what anyone else thinks about it. Traveling for work in New England in winter means the AWD is worth the added costs to me. The LLBean edition outbacks are, to put it simply, tanks. Everything on them is beefier. I'll casually roll up hills covered in slush, watching soccer moms slide off the road in their suburbans, and not even feel the start of a fishtail. I don't need to plan gargantuan margins to keep a schedule in the winter. I don't get stuck, or get stranded.

massdebater
massdebater

@Inmate
The problem with buying used is getting cars that have actually been properly maintained. Used car lots will bondo over everything, and paint over rust on the frame. Anything to hide everything they can. The best cars seem to be retired seniors. Estate sales, or just giving up driving. They are often single owner, single driver, aren't abused, low mileage for their age, only get driven in good weather, and are well maintained.

Leasing is for people that don't drive much. The dealership wants the car returned in perfect condition, and wants it returned with low mileage (because the depreciation is non linear and they want to turn around and sell it for a profit), and as such, the fees you will pay for driving a lot with a leased vehicle are quite large. From a strictly financial standpoint, if you drive a lot and still want new cars, you are far better off buying, and then trading it in, or just selling it yourself/through a broker.

The best choice is again, buy a gently used car, and run it till it's not quite in the ground. If you could effortlessly buy and sell the cars, you'd buy a bit later, and sell a bit sooner, but you can't generally do that, so pay a bit more for something less used, and run it a bit longer.

Whatever you do, make sure you buy a reliable vehicle. A 10,000 dollar car that has a total running cost of 40 cents a mile is worse than a 15 thousand dollar car that costs 25 cents a mile if drive it even 35,000 miles. There's general fuel costs, but things like the prices of oil changes, new tires, windshield fluid, wipers, brakes, etc all factor into the long term costs of the car. Insurance counts too. An SUV is not only a vacuum for gas, but the chances are that it takes much bigger and more expensive tires. That can easily be 2 or 3 cents per mile by itself.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Booteefool
What the fuck are you buying or have seen bought that only gets 20k miles out of it? I own 2 cars that both cost around 5.5k together. One is 2010 Cobalt that I picked up with 72k miles for $3300, the other is a 00 Civic that I paid $2200 for with 99k miles. I've owned both for about 3-4 years now; I've put almost 100k miles on the Civic and 40k on the Cobalt.

Excluding oil changes I've put around $1100 into BOTH of them.

Newer cars are NEVER cheaper unless you buy some used BMW or Benz that is a money pit. Most warranties are not covering a 15-20k used vehicle. Find me some 15k vehicles with bumper to bumper warranties and not BILLY BOB'S 90 DAY GUARANTEE. Powertrain warranties may or may not transfer to the next owner as well. If you spend extra to get a warranty then it's going to cost about the same as my shitboxes. Oh yeah, if you're not paying cash you're also required to carry full coverage insurance.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Firespawn
@massdebater

Work for a car company and use their employee lease program. My ex worked for Nissan

2017 370z Nismo
$270
$0 down
30k miles a year.
New car every 8-12 months.

farquit
farquit

@likme
A good mechanic will not charge you for their mistakes,
A good mechanic these days is hard to find, so please be gentle with this mechanic of mine

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