Obama's Economy, what went so right?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

Obama's Economy, what went so right?

Does anyone else feel like The Obama Economy has been really... vague and hard to see? These 8 years there has been a fuckton of Obama everywhere but has there been much demanding, rule making, explaining any decisions?

It would be easier if we could point to "Obama Agreed with Janet Yellen they should do X, now home prices skyrocketed"

I actually do not understand that either... all I can tell is home prices crashed, we rejiggered some stuff then magically they rose?

It feels like at times this is one of the best economies ever, at least in the top 3.

Low gas prices, insanely powerful stock market, jobs are plentiful especially for low skilled workers. Am I wrong? This is what I keep reading.

Why is it so damn good, like, what did he do so well, or why is all of this a complete lie and how?

Trump always says our economy is total ass but its supposedly insanely good to me?

Nobody explains things in politics anymore, they just expect me to be ""hype"" but like, for what and why? I want to read a book about how Obama rescued us for economic class and just don't know where to start.

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.nber.org/papers/w20601.pdf
https://www.nber.org/papers/w17989.pdf
http://eml.berkeley.edu//~saez/piketty-saez-stantcheva12thirdelasticity_nber_v2.pdf
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42729.pdf
Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Sir_Gallonhead
House ownership down.
Median income down.
Personal debt up.

Average age someone moves out of their parents' house is now like late 20s.

No safe vehicles for people to generate a return - you have to use the stock market or get a paltry 1-2% from savings accounts/bonds.

The national debt was also doubled under Obama - pretty easy to prop numbers up when you spend 10 trillion.

If anything, it's insane how poorly he has done, all things considered.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Sir_Gallonhead
Superficially it appears good, but if you can look beyond the shallows it's just shit piled high with more shit stacked atop it.

likme
likme

By the by I love it that when the markets fall government feels perfectly entitled to rig economic conditions to make it go back up, because their rich backers own half the equities market and we wouldn't want them to be sad. Reminds me a lot of China, sort of.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Even before Obama the economists up at D.C. have lied and jimmyrigged a few graphs to make it look like we are doing great, and this type of purposeful lying is exactly what reminds me of the government in 1984. We are not doing great, that's just what the government wants us to believe.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Sir_Gallonhead
Why is it so damn good, like, what did he do so well

The stimulus, Obamacare, auto bailout, more finance regulation, wound down 2 wars.

"Thanks Obama".

Literally.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Spazyfool
The stimulus didn't work. Finance regulation arguably also didn't work. The other stuff, any president would have handled. In fact he basically did the things McCain was going to do and took Bush's surge idea to new heights or lows depending on who you are.

5mileys
5mileys

@Spazyfool

Car MPG LOOOOL. As if Obama really has anything to do with that. We should probably give him a nobel peace prize for that one.

Yeah, look at the real numbers that matter.
-Federal debt held by public
-Uninsured citizens
-Home ownership
-Corporate profits COMPARED to median income

hairygrape
hairygrape

You are completely clueless. His ecnomics werent that bad, but not for those reasons.

oil is low due to saudi arabia and iran lifted sanctions... also costs us jobs
people are riding stocks to evade currency volatility
Jobs arent exceptionally plentiful, especially if open borders hit

Playboyize
Playboyize

Most jobs added under Obama are part time low wage jobs. This is why personal debt is up and sales for big companies are down. His stimulus didn't work. This is why you see a lot Americans get angry when they say the economy is doing well. For investors the economy is great but for everyone the recession is still hitting them hard.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Spazyfool
comparing post bubble numbers to now

Again he had upsides but.

1. Every president would have those sort of numbers

2. Jobs are not a priority (compared to other presidents). His numbers there arent impressive.

3. No, whoever you voted for would not have made legislation againt SPM before ut was too late

4. Obama escalated the war against isis, assad and iirc has men in somolia and afghan

Methshot
Methshot

@Sir_Gallonhead
hello leaf

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Playboyize
So what's the solution?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@PackManBrainlure
Jack up interest rates, have a business brushfire, start an actual recovery.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@PackManBrainlure
Raise taxes on capital gains and derivatives trading. I'm sorry but we're at that point where biz folk have to pay more. Start cracking down on tax dodging. Increasing the wages. This is going to happen whether people like it or not.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@5mileys
You mean the standard MPG improvements that are done each year based on a pool of vehicles for decades now? Doesn't need a president to succeed lmao.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Sir_Gallonhead
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WHY DIDN'T OBAMA INCREASE MY GIBSMEDAT

The Thread.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Emberburn
A portion of businesses in most towns in the country lie about their reported revenue. That's a lot of money that's not being taxed essentially.

Gee, I wonder why so many places offer discounts if you pay in cash. All those places that also only accept cash or money order...

There are so many apartment units that only accept cash or money order....

iluvmen
iluvmen

@BinaryMan
Gee, I wonder why so many places offer discounts if you pay in cash. All those places that also only accept cash or money order...
probably they don't wish to pay 3-6% for the card company because it cuts in their profit ratio and makes them more expensive for you??

Methshot
Methshot

@Emberburn
Raise taxes on capital gains and derivatives trading.
yeah sure punish those that risk their money on trying to run the economy.
fucking commies when do they learn? money is never a freebie. there are risks you take for profit no matter what you invest in.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Methshot
Every generation they get a new chance to reband wealth redistribution. This shit will never stop.

FastChef
FastChef

@PurpleCharger
sure the inequality sounds bad but many "rich" people have a net worth that can disappear overnight, like that ceo chick that went from 4-5 billion to zero in a split second. it's not like they are sitting on mountains of cash. they have their money financing states and corporations all of which can turn out to be shit.

as a beginner investor scraping to save anything to make some future "passive" income revenue. tax on interest is fucking bullshit man. it's already a fucking gamble and you are punished if you bet right. of course you are not compensated if you bet wrong. nah.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Spazyfool
obama literally started up hundreds of companies and physically hired hundreds of thousands of people to reduce the unemployment rate.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Sir_Gallonhead
Actually, with Fed on point, they managed to avert the crisis pretty good, unlike ECB and the EU.

EU is still dealing with deppresed aggregate demand, that's why some of the Eurozone is dealing with deflation despite the massive money stimulus into the banks. Fed jews actually convinced the congress to approve more spending to boost the fall of private consumption and GDP.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Methshot
actually the analyses showed up that marginal tax rate for the top 1% should be around 70% to 80%. Not even a leftist commie.

Also lower corporate taxes don't really help with investments, they just boost dividend yield and stock owners.

5mileys
5mileys

@Booteefool
Need to back These claims up with a study conducted by a non-Jew.

likme
likme

@Booteefool
yeah but indiscriminately taxing dividend and interest gains is just bullshit. progressive income tax is okay in my books, but sadly the rich are very proficient in evading taxes.

also nobody under any circumstances should have to lose more than half his gains to taxes that's total bollocks.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@likme
Nice guideline you made up out of nowhere

taxing alternative means of income is bullshit
Pay em, motherfucker

Methnerd
Methnerd

@hairygrape
thankfully i don't have to i don't live in a gommie state.
i get tax exempt from these gains if certain conditions are met.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Booteefool
They SHOULD BE 70-80%
only le elite benefit from investing
Fuck off to Europe you miserable communist. Cucktries like norway would have tax ideal for you

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@5mileys
sure, I don't expect anyone to take my word for it.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w20601.pdf
https://www.nber.org/papers/w17989.pdf
http://eml.berkeley.edu//~saez/piketty-saez-stantcheva12thirdelasticity_nber_v2.pdf

Need to back These claims up with a study conducted by a non-Jew.

That's an oxymoron. A jew would support lower taxes.

@likme
also nobody under any circumstances should have to lose more than half his gains to taxes that's total bollocks.

That's the beauty of it. No one loses more than half of his income. Marginal tax rate applies only over a certain income (i.e. marginal tax rate of 80% over let's say a million dollars means you get taxed 80 cents for every dollar you earn over a million, but if you earn less than a million you get taxed less).

You basically tax the money that empirically doesn't go back to the economy. And is in accordance with the pareto efficiency.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@5mileys
Could someone kindly explain how under US law Obama or a president for that matter could force corporation's to pay a fair share to the workers in relation to their net profit?

I just don't see a way to constitutionally regulate greed and fairness in a global society.

likme
likme

@Fried_Sushi
Yeah you don't understand how the top rate works. Calculate the effective rate for someone who makes $20,000,000 under your model. All these high brackets do is limit productivity and encourage tax avoidance through other perks.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

"This time is different" sums up the obama economy. It is mostly helicopter money user.

takes2long
takes2long

@likme
Labour is much less internationally mobile than wealth, that's why tax on labour income is much more effective.

Also pic related. Look at the values. Unfortunately, there is no statistically significant corellation between top marginal tax rate and productivity. But if it was, look at the incline.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@takes2long
I guess I don't understand what you mean by 'effective'. What do you see as the goal of adjusting these tax rates?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@takes2long
Lol is this a combination of a ton of countries?

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@takes2long
those fitted lines look like made up biased bullshit compared to the dots imo

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Stupidasole
What do you think effective means? Why do you think taxing labour income is less effective as taxing wealth?

@SomethingNew
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42729.pdf

Bidwell
Bidwell

@takes2long
The results of the analysis in this report suggest that changes over the past 65 years in the top marginal tax rate and the top capital gains tax rate do not appear correlated with economic growth. The reduction in the top statutory tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment, and productivity growth. The top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie. But as a small proportion of taxpayers are affected by changes in the top statutory tax rates, this finding is not unexpected.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Bidwell
Thanks for proving the point for me.

tax cuts are uncorrelated with saving, investment and productivity
top tax rate changes do not affect economic pie (i.e. productivity)
top marginal and capital gains tax rate are uncorrelated with economic growth

also, the next paragraph

However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be correlated with the increasing concentration of income at the top of the income distribution. As measured by IRS data, the share of income accruing to the top 0.1% of U.S. families increased from 4.2% in 1945 to 12.3% by 2007 before falling to 9.2% due to the 2007-2009 recession. At the same time, the average tax rate paid by the top 0.1% fell from over 50% in 1945 to about 25% in 2009. The statistical analysis in this report suggests that tax policy could be related to how the economic pie is sliced—lower top tax rates may be associated with greater income disparities.

top tax rate reductions increase income discreapancy
depresses aggregate demand
economy stagnates
so does inflation

Techpill
Techpill

low gas prices

Our gas companies are being destroyed by the Saudis. That's why the gas prices are low, an oversupply. I can't stand seeing that touted as a positive

Snarelure
Snarelure

@cum2soon
Muh shadowstats

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Spamalot
fair

Such a bullshit word

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Poker_Star
to me all that sentence said that the graph you posted is pointless and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@BlogWobbles
no evidence to the contrary

k, next

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Snarelure
What will your reaction be when the SP500 drops 50%?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

I see a lot of bias here as the thread goes on, but the first few explain it well enough, I think.

There was "growth", things are "better".

But some of it was manipulated by the Obama regime directly.

I see situations like this in, sorry for the comparison if it sounds nonsensical but it just reminds me of this situation too much, sports a lot when a club/team is doing so shit either financially or in terms of performance.

Usually they hire a conservative coach/manager to force radical changes so the next coach/manager has an easier time to properly establish the club/team.

What I'm saying is that, yeah, BO didn't do anything spectacular and that many other, slightly competent President that's not an overconfident ass can do it.

Though, I'm vexed at how poorly he did with relations with the middle-east. War seems inevitable now, but then again, those people carry blood grudges through decades.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Techpill
We can use the low gas prices to have an energy source to help with R&D for alternative fuel sources?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Ignoramus
decades.
Millennia*

MPmaster
MPmaster

I can only find wage slave jobs.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@GoogleCat
no you don't get it the quote from the paper says so itself that it shouldn't be taken too seriously as it is pretty pointless and also the data looks very random.

takes2long
takes2long

@Sir_Gallonhead
Low gas prices,
Political manoeuvre to punish Russia for warmongering.
Do you think big oil really wants low prices?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@MPmaster
Really? I get salaried job offers out the ass as a CSci major.

Maybe the problem isnt a lack of jobs, but rather a large group of people unwilling to learn math and get the proper skillsets to survive in a world thats becoming more automated?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Methshot
flipping paper
running the economy
pick one, Schlomo

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Soft_member
Funnily enough, if you look through data that Piketty releases, it turns out pretty much any scatter plot he has made is like that. He frequently linerarly inteepolates. There's a ton of ink spilled on it. I'll try to dig up the best links (there was o e I foubd where they took screenshots of the Excel file)

likme
likme

@Soft_member
you don't really understand what "no statistical significance" means, do you?

The paper said there is no enough data to conclude marginal tax rate affects productivity, but IF it would - and here is where the picture comes in - it would be an upward slope.

I'm sorry if this doesn't cotton to your ideological compass, but here's the data. You either see it, or you don't.

the data looks very random
lol k, I'm waiting for you to turn to ad hominem now

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@likme
No statistical correlation means that a best fit line has no meaning and the trend is meaningless. Their definition of what constitutes productivity might be equally suspect. Modeling data in general isn't that great of an argumentative tool because models may not be accurate reflections of real life. All the historical data in your sources reflects no trend or trends opposite of what you're asserting. Some of the variables being graphed are not necessarily related because correlation does not equal causation. It has occured to me that you're either a subversive jew or an illiterate nigger. I'm sorry that every leftist economic theory ends up in flames. Maybe instead of trying to efficiently bleed those more successful than themselves they could get a fucking job.

Pretty much covers it.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

Obama economy

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Dreamworx
Home ownership going down is a good thing. We had the real estate bubble because people were being approved for houses they couldn't afford. Ownership going down means less fraud.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Dreamworx
filename
implying there is a real difference between the economics of the republicans and democrats
how far have you jammed that blue pill up your ass?

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Stupidasole
ah, here it is, the butthurt.

Whilst I agree that modeled data isn't really a great representative tool, it's why I've linked a few of studies rather than one, just to be on the safe side. Not to mention the fact that most papers with stupid assumptions and subsequently wrong models were used by right-wing retards peddling the same stupid shit that's taught in macro 101.

You're not getting that the top earners are now the ones that are bleeding out the rest and the same guys are now financing the people that are pushing the FTAs and tax cuts on those that can't even spend their money.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Garbage Can Lid
It still means people don't make enough to own a home. Even at reduced prices due to an excess of supply.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Garbage Can Lid
T. "We should let migrants in because humanitarianism"

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@viagrandad
They don't ever have to spend it to benefit the economy. They can invest it or allow it to be borrowed against. This liquidity is an essential part of the whole system that's just not possible when everyone is a pleb. You claim they are bleeding us dry and yet every year they offer more and better goods and services.

There is also the taxation is theft / inefficient allocation of government funds aspect of this whole thing. I asked earlier how efficiency is measured in a tax system as a lead in to this whole other problem. If there is no correlation between economic growth rates and increased MTR then how is anyone actually benefiting?

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

China has been devaluing their currency and stealing our industries. This has resulted in cheap as fuck shit.

Everything is cheap now. The problem is, people are out of work. The real unemployment rates are insane and comparable now to Eurofag nations. This was never a thing in the U.S up until the 08 crash.

Jobs are just not abundant anymore. Manufacturing is decimated. Take a stroll to your local business park. It's mostly businesses catering to the rich because that's who has profited the most in the last decade. While that's fine if the middle class sees some sort of increase, that simply has not been the case. They've been stagnant and going nowhere.The rich are profiting off globalism and making a fortune. The trickle down effect has done very little to help, domestically.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@likme
I'm sorry if this doesn't cotton to your ideological compass
i don't care either way really it's just what the study concluded

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Gigastrength
They don't ever have to spend it to benefit the economy

kek

You claim they are bleeding us dry and yet every year they offer more and better goods and services.

the top earners? kek

There is also the taxation is theft / inefficient allocation of government funds aspect of this whole thing.

I might give you a pass on this one, but it depends from country to country. But fiscal multiplier after crisis is usually very high and if aggregate demand is depressed, it's that higher. Local fiscal multipliers are even higher due to no spillovers.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Emberburn
let's tax the rich to prosperity because that's worked everywhere it has ever been tried!

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Emberburn

I would love to personally kill every one of you retarded bernie fucks

TechHater
TechHater

@FastChef
Yeah a lot of taxes are fucking bullshit. If you start up a business, gamble on the stock market, or work as an employee, take all the risks, all the stress, put all the time, effort, and labor into it, but if you succeed the government takes a portion of it. If you fail however nobody gives you shit. In fact they still tax you whether or not you succeed or fail. Fuck that.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@iluvmen

Serious question, but where do you get "job offers out the ass from"? Past connections from work/school, recruiters you've used, or do you throw yourself out there online like LinkedIn?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Fried_Sushi
That's the beauty of it. No one loses more than half of his income. Marginal tax rate applies only over a certain income (i.e. marginal tax rate of 80% over let's say a million dollars means you get taxed 80 cents for every dollar you earn over a million, but if you earn less than a million you get taxed less).
are you even trying? if you earn a hundred million you pretty much get 79% tax on it you nigger. that's more than half your gains and a total bullshit.
someone risks a billion from his fortune to have his gains stolen by commie retards gonna leave the country and never look back.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@AwesomeTucker
Well it worked ok during the golden age of capitalism in the 50s. An economy based around inflation of asset values can't last forever. Diverting money away from simply inflating stocks and real-estate values towards actual long term investments in fixed-capital that employ people and generate real value will eventually need to happen.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Playboyize

Cause Obamacare put full-time at 28 hours instead of 32.

Gg m9.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Gigastrength
the us government created isis you retard

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@haveahappyday
But where does the hate come from, user?

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Spazyfool
2008 us debt 14.75 trillion
2015 us debt 17.8 trillion

can some one please explain the obama doubled the debt meme I hear all over Veeky Forums. I'm not even a liberal shill. I just want to know where it came from.

Image even spending close to 9 trillion dollars

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Sir_Gallonhead
janet yellen gives you 10$ trillion. Reduce unemployment 2%. 350$ million people in US.

28k per capita. Giving it straight to the poeple would have done a lot fucking more to help the economy than whatever the fuck he did.

@Garbage Can Lid
idiotic argument fraud was still like 5% of the pie.

@VisualMaster
You mean when the rest of the world was recovering from WW2 and Millions of deaths of their productive workforce, and the interest on their debt was at its peak flowing into the US.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Lord_Tryzalot
Your figures are wrong

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Garbage Can Lid
low interest rates and subprime mortgages made the 2008 crisis, nothing to do with legit demand, people buying houses and being able to pay back debt.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Playboyize
low interest rates and subprime mortgages

Government programs to "get people into houses" they shouldn't have been in created that crisis. Or do you actually think banks just loaned money out with little to no expectation of ever getting it back?

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Harmless_Venom
that site is scary as fuck

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@CodeBuns
Uni's career center and LinkedIn.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Playboyize
@TreeEater
Both fraud and government programs were big problems for that crisis.
Loans were being taken out and homes were being built for people who couldn't afford to pay for the houses they were living in, and real estate sellers were being compensated for sales numbers rather than quality sells to trustworthy buyers. They'd lie about the status of the buyer to get sales approved and book revenue.

5mileys
5mileys

@Sir_Gallonhead
Look at the national debt, it almost doubled, now over 104% of GDP.
19.4T $.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Harmless_Venom
No he's not.

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