ITT

girlDog
girlDog

ITT: Trump's tax plan.

So I ran the numbers today after seeing Trump's tax plan. It looks like someone making around $50k a year will pay about 1.8% less federal income tax a year. Any tax cut is a good thing, but how is this significant to the average tax payer?

Very high earners get the best deal, a 6.6% cut from the current rate for income over ~$410k. You don't need to calculate the entire federal income tax cut for someone making $500k to see that they're getting a significantly higher tax cut as a percentage than the average middle income employee making $50k. Even individuals making $100k-$300k a year aren't getting much of a break.

Income tax cuts are ultimately a good thing and his plan is surely better than Hillary's, but it does nothing to decrease the income tax burden on the average American.

What're your thoughts?

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@girlDog
the idea is that if you cut the rate but reduce the exemptions more commerce will happen. our entire economy is unfortunately based on consumerism(NOT capitalism) so it should help, but i doubt it will drop the deficit. not that it really matters

Inmate
Inmate

Funny how conservatives always bitch about DEBT when it comes to improving government programs, but when it comes to tax cuts deficits don't matter.

Give me a fucking break. You jerk off over income tax rates but have ZERO EVIDENCE that tax cuts make an economy better. We have had decades of tax cuts and look where we are today. A fucking limp boner low-energy economy. Obviously tax rates are just not low enough, we need to double down like we have been since the 1980s.

How can you even defend increasing the rates for people who earn less than $10k, while decreasing rates for people who earn more than $415k? Lets take away more money from the poor so we can hand it right back to them. This plan is a gigantic fucking disaster and frankly you are a fucking moron.

News flash: Income tax cuts have never EVER generated a government fiscal surplus. Which means they don't work. Case closed.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@girlDog
Why shouldn't someone making more money get a larger tax break? They are paying a significant amount more both as a total amount and as a percentage after all.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Inmate
One of the most retarded posts I've ever seen on Veeky Forums. You keep bashing the tax revenues generated while turning a blind eye to federal government spending.
There is considerable evidence that lowering taxes raises tax revenue.

Lower tax rates=
1. No flight of rich people and smart people leaving to countries with lower tax rates (see: Singapore, Hong Kong, Switzerland Caymen Islands, etc.) Plus, people from high-tax countries will move to your country (see: Europeans to the USA from 1800-1990). Less tax rate percentage, but a much higher tax base.
2. People will work longer/ harder. Self-explanatory. If you have to give less of your money to the government, you have a greater incentive to work and make more money. The government will get less as a percent but more aggregate.
3. People will have more savings to take risks such as starting companies, leading to a greater GDP growth and thus greater revenues.

The only reason none of that matters is because the federal government always decides to outspend any increased revenue several times fold. The biggest reason tax breaks are positive is because people know how better to spend their money than their government. The government does not and has never had a problem with tax revenue, there's only been a problem with government spending. If you think the government isn't getting enough money you're just being brainwashed by the left-wing media trying to pit your problems on the rich, when the real problem rests with the overbearing, ever-expanding, corrupt government.

Pic related. Imagine if the government was as big as it was in 1950 but tax rates were cut in half. Our 19 trillion debt would be paid off within ten years.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@girlDog
In theory reducing tax for the rich helps the economy. Currently in Australia the most wealthy companies pay fuck all or zero tax. Its more profitable to base your company in south Asia with a lower tax rate.

By lowering the tax rate inline with these other countries you encourage these company's to pay tax within your own country.

5mileys
5mileys

@DeathDog
there is considerable evidence
posts nothing

the assumption that rich people are smart and have earned their money

the assumption that people won't work harder or longer for more money no matter how much more money they get

the assumption that there would be more savings amongst people who cannot currently save when the group that protects them goes away

the government is outspending any revenue increase
meanwhile there hasnt been any meaningful revenue increase in nearly 50 years

imagine if we had no government, look how rich we would all be

if you disagree, you are just brainwashed

The Jews have won.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@girlDog
Ahh yes, a consumer driven economy where you take all the money from consumers and give it to the ultra-wealthy.

Classic far-right bullshit.

Enjoy your deepening shithole, Amerifats.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@5mileys
Your graph compared with mine completely BTFO your argument again. Tax revenue has expanded by several factors since the 1950s despite the lowering of the top income tax bracket from 90% to its current rate.

And most of your posts are just blatant lies at this point.
the assumption that rich people are smart and have earned their money
In general, there is a substantial correlation between IQ and hard work with salary. Just look at the difference between Asians and Blacks, for example. Sure, once in a while a lazy idiot will find themself rich, but even in that case your argument is just a meaningless ad hominum. How exactly does a rich person who "didn't earn it" under your standards hurting anyone other than in your jealousy? Jealousy is not an argument.
the assumption that people won't work harder or longer for more money no matter how much more money they get
In the sense of an entire economy, it's unquestionably true. Sure, you might not want to work ten more hours if your take home (after tax) pay was increased by $1 an hour, but others will.
the assumption that there would be more savings amongst people who cannot currently save when the group that protects them goes away
Again, just basic logic. If you need to spend $1000 a month on food and rent and make $1000. You will have 0 savings. If you suddemly start making $1,500 take home pay you will have $500 a month in savings. Look up an economic definition of savings, Savings doesn't just mean money in the bank.
the government is outspending any revenue increase
meanwhile there hasnt been any meaningful revenue increase in nearly 50 years100% false. How is an INFLATION-ADJUSTED increase in government revenue from around 500 billion in the 1980 to 2.5 trillion - a 500% increase, not a meaningful revenue increase?
imagine if we had no government, look how rich we would all be
It's true.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@girlDog

Another Republican. Another double digit national debt increase. Yawn.

idontknow
idontknow

@MPmaster
When you're 20 trillion dollars in debt and there's no hope of it not rising, let alone decreasing to zero, does another 20 trillion even matter?

Methshot
Methshot

@DeathDog
People do those things without tax cuts. You literally have no evidence that trickledown works. Hint: Because it doesn't.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Emberfire
It's pretty important to recognise increased revenue due to larger populations and a gouging of the lower middle class isn't going to effectively translate to government surplus.

This type of taxation system creates vastly increased costs, due in large part to necessary cost increase health+education and policing in addition to existing expansion of costs due to population growth.

So while you meme about the wealthy being simply better quality human beings and can we please reduce their taxes, the country drives faster, and further into unsustainable, unrecoverable depths of debt.

While debt isn't at all an issue if government borrows cheap and spends on revenging raising, quality public services for the long term, it is absolutely devastating when expenditure is almost exclusively on corrupt corporate welfare.

It is very important for right wing memers, who may otherwise be intelligent people - perhaps pertaining to yourself - that the WRONG type of spending into debt is absolutely an argument against government.
But nevertheless, and vitally so, do remember, that without government spending in the right areas (essentially any public service whatsoever) the resultant anarchy is devastating not just to the quality of life of the wealthy and the country at large, but to its ability to maintain and grow wealth.

Currently virtually no government in the western world is investing intelligently in quality public service for the future, which is wholly own by the government, answerable to the people, whilst also being sustainably profitable.
This is an unbelievably easy task, yet governments continue to build for the private sector, throw them all the infrastructure and allow them to rake in the profits, then in spectacular displays of idiocy, wholly fund the maintenance of said infrastructure, essentially offering the private sector free profit.

MPmaster
MPmaster

Closing tax loops and decreasing the size of government will help offset losses in decreasing the tax for the rich.

Trump is also expecting to increase revenue through tariffs and bringing companies back to America. If you have more jobs in America, you have more people you're able to tax

The poor will pay more for programs funded for them anyways.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@idontknow

Yes. Yes it does.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@MPmaster
Closing tax loops and decreasing the size of government will help offset losses in decreasing the tax for the rich.
This is a meme. Republicans say it all the time, but they never actually do it. Instead, the run up massive deficits.
Trump is also expecting to increase revenue through tariffs and bringing companies back to America.
Tariffs will start trade wars, making U.S. goods more expensive overseas. Decreased exports means lower profits. Companies won't be rushing to get that shitty deal.
If you have more jobs in America, you have more people you're able to tax
Trump has no plan for new jobs.
The poor will pay more for programs funded for them anyways.
The poor will pay for welfare? Are you literally retarded?

Typical Trump supporter right here folks. Take a good, hard look.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@girlDog

Wants to reduce taxes on high earners

Great plan. Isn't this what they called "trickle down economics"?

lol.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@DeathDog

rich people leaving

please show me these rich people that leave the USA because of high taxes.

If they do exist I bet the entire lot of them could fit on one city bus.

"OMG the rich will flee!"

Playboyize
Playboyize

@idontknow
It affects credit rating, making future borrowing more expensive.

If the hypothetical 20 trillion were spent on revenue raising infrastructure, it would be fine.

It would realistically, however, mostly be spent on tax cuts for the wealthy and corporate welfare.

WebTool
WebTool

@kizzmybutt
what are corporate inversions

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Inmate
How can you even defend increasing the rates for people who earn less than 10K
You do realize they receive a negative net effect in regards to taxes, in that they get more money back in the form of benefits, than they pay for tax.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@lostmypassword
Whats the difference between "trickle down economics" where rich spend more money on enterprising activity and "trickle down economics" where government spends more money on subsidizing things?

One way or another you are supporting trickle down economics. You are just deciding who is more trust worthy; people like Nancy Pelosi or Bill Gates

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Need_TLC
it can be argued that the government is not greedy and isnt looking to make itself as rich as a corporation

but i agree, govt trickle down has its own problems as well

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Need_TLC
Whats the difference between "trickle down economics" where rich spend more money on enterprising activity and "trickle down economics" where government spends more money on subsidizing things?
both are liberal memes that can't be tied to an elected candidate but if they repeat it they think it'll be true

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Inmate
This.

Republicans love their budget deficits, for some reason.

WebTool
WebTool

@iluvmen
Typical Trump supporter right here folks. Take a good, hard look.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@kizzmybutt
Not sure if it was J&J but one of the big pharmas just did a major shift to Ireland a few months ago or is currently in the process.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Emberfire
Tax revenue has expanded by several factors since the 1950s despite the lowering of the top income tax bracket
So have expenditures. As populations rise, both revenues and expenditures rise. This is evidence of a growing country, not an effective tax system

Skullbone
Skullbone

@kizzmybutt
Look at the companies moving to Dublin

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Skullbone
Companies aren't moving employees en masse to Ireland, they are setting up small offices and abusing their low tax rate then never repatriating the income because they can just fuck over Americans until the bought out congress pushes through a tax holiday.

girlDog
girlDog

@MPmaster
Compared to obongo, who has almost achieved a triple digit debnt increase? Also your chart doesn't allow for planned reductions in government spending.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Carnalpleasure
Yeah, invest it all into public services, that'll get paid off any day now.

farquit
farquit

@Inmate
ZERO EVIDENCE that tax cuts make an economy better

This is where your ENTIRE argument falls apart. See, you'd be right if that was the goal (better econ), but that's not the whole picture.

The whole picture includes a reduction in government.

takes2long
takes2long

@MPmaster
not including Obama (or any democrats), the largest increase in debt ever

askme
askme

@iluvmen
Fuck off, Jew.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@girlDog
B-but he's a racist, bigot, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic, Panphobic, idiot, rude, person

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Spamalot
Trumples are people too
Back to the gutter, peasant.

massdebater
massdebater

@iluvmen
Lmao what... fucking hillary shills everywhere

Obama hasn't created debt during his two terms? He had like a 5.3 trillion debt in one term

How will exporting stuff cause tariffs? Are you retarded, tariffs are on imports. Countries will pay to have their cheap shit imported, or do you want china to continue raping America? US barely exports any goods compared to their imports aside from services

What's Hillarys plan for new jobs? To give it to other country so you can stay poor and work minimum wage?

The poor should pay for stuff they use. They get free everything, their lives are controlled by the government. Free housing, food stamps, etc. As long as you vote for Hillary.

Why else do the Dems target the poor? There's way more of them than the rich and they're easier to buy a vote from

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@DeathDog
No flight of rich people and smart people leaving to countries with lower tax rates (see: Singapore, Hong Kong, Switzerland Caymen Islands, etc.) Plus, people from high-tax countries will move to your country (see: Europeans to the USA from 1800-1990). Less tax rate percentage, but a much higher tax base.
There will ALWAYS be someone with lower taxes than you. A race to the bottom is not one you want to participate in.

People will work longer/ harder. Self-explanatory. If you have to give less of your money to the government, you have a greater incentive to work and make more money. The government will get less as a percent but more aggregate.
you have a greater incentive to work and make more money
And the guy you're replying to is retarded? Jesus Christ, are you seriously saying people just don't want money because the government is going to take some? And actually, wouldn't it be the opposite? If a company wanted to increase revenue because of a shortfall due to increased taxes, they would innovate to increase their profit margins. If Steven wanted to get that Acura but can't afford it because of taxes, is he just going to say "Ah well, sucks to be me", or is he going to stay a few hours late to get it? And actually you say the same thing here @Emberfire

People will have more savings to take risks such as starting companies, leading to a greater GDP growth and thus greater revenues.
Does anyone remember that guy who was so sure his invention would gain steam he ended up devoting his entire life to it, getting divorced from his wife and living in a car for like 20 years? That's obviously not something the typical person does, but it's a good way to build my point (which I can also back up with personal experience) that if people think something will make them money, they WILL pursue it, whether it's a good idea or not.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@DeathDog
oh yeah, because rich white people are all moving to Singapore.
get your head out of your ass, you conservative retard.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@massdebater
Obama hasn't created debt during his two terms? He had like a 5.3 trillion debt in one term
Your right, but you seem to have forgotten that he had to spend that money to fix the Republican fuckups that lead to the greatest economic calamity this country's faced in a 100 years. That spending by Obama turned around the economy, saved the Banking and Automobile industries, and led directly to the greatest bull market in generations. So fuck him, right?

Conservatives are so fucking stupid. No wonder they stick to /pol/. Outside their echo chamber they don't stand a chance.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Poker_Star

$0.05 has been debited to your account
Why do you shill so hard?

a race to the bottom is not what you want
Then why are jobs getting outsourced for cheap labour? Do you advocate that a race to the bottom by having illegals and immigrants?

because the government is going to take some?
Yes that's why people on welfare and food stamps don't work minimum wage. You get paid more to be on welfare. Why should I let the government dictate where my money goes? Aside from infrastructure and public services and protection, why do I have to pay extra to send 400mil to iran?

What is your last point? People have no money to do anything. Even if that was true, why wouldn't they invest in the stock market? Why is capitalism more innovative than your communism?

@Emberburn
No because they're putting money in Panama accounts

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Fuzzy_Logic
I'm not convinced we needed to bail out the banks AT ALL, but I agree, free-market republican retards deregulated the banking industry so they could give loans at 105% to people with no or bad credit, leading to a swarth of defaults which completely tanked the American and, in part, global economy. American's lost 25% of their collective wealth. anyone who doesn't think we need a balance between the market and government is absolutely retarded and is opening up the world to abuse AKA capitalization AKA exploitation. understand that capitalism is ABOUT exploiting markets, of course it must be regulated.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Need_TLC
, free-market republican retards
you mean jews m8, the republicans were just useful idiots at the time.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Supergrass
$0.05 has been debited to your account
Why do you shill so hard?
Fantastic argument. You sure are convincing me here. That's now three people in this thread who have resorted to 'words for people I don't like' when they didn't have an argument, all of which just so happened to be on the same side.

Then why are jobs getting outsourced for cheap labour? Do you advocate that a race to the bottom by having illegals and immigrants?

This is exactly my point. I would rather some jobs get outsourced and not have the United States living like India.

Yes that's why people on welfare and food stamps don't work minimum wage. You get paid more to be on welfare. Why should I let the government dictate where my money goes? Aside from infrastructure and public services and protection, why do I have to pay extra to send 400mil to iran?
This isn't an argument about the minimum wage. This is an argument about taxes.

People have no money to do anything. Even if that was true, why wouldn't they invest in the stock market?
Because people are idiots? The point the person said was that taxes will cause people to stop innovating, which I showed was false, which in case I need to elaborate further, was shown by poor people with no money still attempting to do so.

Why is capitalism more innovative than your communism?
I thought that since you had other arguments in this thread you weren't a shitposter, but maybe I was wrong? We're talking about taxes, user.

@Booteefool
Thought this was my ID for a second. Got a little spooked haha

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Need_TLC
Unfortunately our hands was forced with AIG, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, and the other retards who created that bubble and crash in 07/08. What should of happened is that those banks needed to be broken up, they aren't going to regulate themselves, and why would they when the Feds will just bail them out if they fuck up. Greenspan was originally a fucking laissez-faire economist and over the years ended up putting some of the most regulations that our economy has ever seen, and he was a genius for it. A pure Capitalist knew that it was impossible to leave the economy and market to corporations, banks, businesses, and its consumers unregulated, he would of failed his job if he followed through on his original philosophy. Too bad he didn't stuck around for what happened in 08, I doubt he would of been able to fix that one.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@girlDog
Better than Bernie's, Osama's and Hillarys

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Inmate
How can you even defend increasing the rates for people who earn less than $10k

People earning less than $10k pay absolutely no federal or state income taxes. In fact, they get back far more in Earned Income Tax Credit, especially if they have kids which increases EITC and gives them refundable Additional Child Tax Credit on top of that. Add on whatever more government money they are receiving through subsidized housing and food. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Get lost you brain dead liberal piece of shit parasite.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@DeathDog
This. Examine the federal budget and realize that most of your money is going to war and a massive lazy parasite class. Fuck more taxes, we need LESS SPENDING. Study the fall of Rome which was brought about by costly wars, welfare, multiculturalism, taxation, over-regulation, and debasement of the currency. Wake the fuck up morons, learn from history.

farquit
farquit

@Garbage Can Lid
read the chart
Get lost you brain dead drumpfag piece of shit parasite.

Inmate
Inmate

@Boy_vs_Girl
Study the fall of Rome which was brought about by costly wars, welfare, multiculturalism, taxation, over-regulation, and debasement of the currency.

muh post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy

You could just as well say
christianity
and it would be equally true

Always funny when amerifats try to point to history to make a point about current affairs, when you barely even know who you were last week

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@DeathDog
...what?

RavySnake
RavySnake

this thread is pointless since trump is not going to win, he had yet another meltdown yesterday saying second amendment people could "do something" about Hillary.

God what a fucking moron, why is it absolutely impossible for him to stay on message?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@massdebater
How will exporting stuff cause tariffs? Are you retarded, tariffs are on imports.
have you really never heard of a trade war? When you put tariffs on a country's goods it hurts their exports making them more than a bit touchy, so they respond in kind by placing tariffs on your goods. China has already said they will do this.

what's hillarys plan for new jobs
increasing investment in education, and offering tax breaks to companies that provide apprenticeships

The poor should pay for stuff they use. They get free everything, their lives are controlled by the government. Free housing, food stamps, etc. As long as you vote for Hillary.
Yes those damn poor people, they have it so easy. Stop regurgitating baseless "welfare queen" arguments, welfare as you think of it (free money for not working) does not exist in this country and has not existed for over 20 years.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@girlDog
We are an Oligarchy. What do you expect?

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Burnblaze
Republicans love their budget deficits, for some reason.

It's not like the reason is a secret or anything. In a cruel twist of history Republicans have been promoting Keynesianism for decades while constantly speaking out against it. The defense budget is the biggest and longest-running Keynesian support program ever conceived. Every defense contract is the state increasing public spending to create demand and support private enterprises, buying economic growth and employment with tax payer money.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@farquit
calls someone brain dead
copies someone's insult

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Need_TLC

free-market republican retards deregulated the banking industry

Clinton approved the "loans for niggers on welfare program" (Community Reinvestment Act) and Bush enchanced it (ofcourse with the approval of Democraps), all in the pretense to "help the poor".

You faggot commies think that deregulation fucks everything up and regulation fixes everything, yet who the fuck do you think funds all the politicians campaigns and does all the lobbying and therefore gets all the regulations (and deregulations) passed?

Why do you think america has so many prisoners? Because prison companies lobby for longer incarceration.
Why do you think health insurance goes up and you get fined for not having it? Because health insurance companies lobby for it.

Why do you think there are tax loops? Because fucking kill yourself you mongoloid retard.

ABOUT exploiting markets, of course it must be regulated

Yea, because all those commie states work out just fine with their planned, state-controlled economy (maxed-out regulation).

SniperWish
SniperWish

My salary is about 130K a year
I'd get an extra 7-9K a year

That's 2-3 years worth of yearly salary increases
That's 300+ extra dollars each paycheck

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