Hello Veeky Forums, I've recently changed my university studies from nursing to finance. I'm not sure where in finance I want to work, but banking has been interesting as I've researched it. I'm mostly interested in banking because of the opportunities to work abroad, especially in South East Asia. Is it possible to get into banking if I'm not going to a top tier school? I'm in the Silicon Valley studying currently. Is it worth the effort to try and break into the sector or is my energy better devoted to something like corporate finance? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
What uni do your currently go to? If it's not a target school then you won't be going to SE Asia. Not being a dick, just speaking from experience. Also, why do you want to work in emerging markets?
Yeah no worries I don't take offense. Going to San Jose State University in the fall. Not very well known school, but my neighbor just graduated form there with a Finance degree and said that a lot of tech companies go there to recruit the finance students, so there's that at least.
I'm also happy to work in the U.S., but Asia just has an allure to it. I know New York is the Finance capital of the States, but I lived there for a few years and was looking into other areas to work. San Francisco is okay, but it's not exactly an international hub. Am I pretty much going to be limited to the area I'm studying and the connections I can make?
Banking is a pretty broad area, OP.
Do you want to get into institutional/corporate/investment banking? If so, yeah being at a top tier school will help a lot. Same goes for if you want to get into sales and trading at a bulge bracket investment bank.
But there's also a shitload of opportunities in retail banking. You could work as a product analyst, market risk/credit risk analyst, or do what I do and work in treasury and work on areas like funding, liquidity and capital adequacy. There's really a plethora of different areas to get into.
Just don't pigeonhole yourself to glamour IB jobs.
Well your not limited to working wealth management jobs.
You can always get finance degree jobs at banks and insurance companies.
So your role is just to acquire money for your company? Seems interesting, you like it? What's wrong with investment banking?
Insurance would be more sales oriented right?
It's about what you know but it's more so about who you know. Network as well as you can, call alumni in various industries, go to dinner/drinks with colleagues, join as many business/tech clubs as you can, etc. You'll be fine.
The big cities in finance now are NY (obv), Chicago (a lot of futures/options shit is HQ'd here), Boston (hedge funds), London (obv), and Hong Kong (obv). If you want to make the most money and become a big swinging dick then shoot for those cities as an end-goal.
This as well.
Insurance jobs with a finance degree would mean you're selling swaps more than likely. (at least from my exp)
really helpful info all, thanks. If SE Asia is a reach, then NYC would be a happy alternative for end goal city. I've got some friends mostly in media there, not sure that helps, but I know I could stick it out there.
If I can land a job in SF for, say, Morgan Stanley, is it possible I could then land a job at the Morgan Stanley in NYC? I'll definitely be looking to join clubs, also I'm pretty sure there's a business fraternity that I'll try to jump in with.
I'm assuming y'all are working in these fields we're talking about now, how's the job satisfaction? Hours?
To answer your question about Morgan Stanley it's first important to note how you end up at specific branches of investment banks. Look up the training process after you've been hired for Morgan Stanley (not sure how they do it these days honestly). I only know of Citi's process which is where everyone got split up into groups at the end of the training period and we all got assigned what city we would be working in basically. (think Liar's Poker style "equities in Dallas" bullshit)
About the jobs question, I'm a derivatives trader at Citi. I started out working on the swaps desk and worked my way to where I am now (can't say my job title as I'd get crucified if anybody in HR found out). I enjoy the job and the hours. I work about 50 hours a week, but even If I only worked the standard 40 hours then I'd still spend an extra 10 hours looking at market data and charts just because I enjoy the shit so much. That's the thing about hours, you hear about guys working 70+ hours as analysts but those same guys would have spent 70+ hours a week digging through market data regardless. May as well get paid right.
Also note, corporate culture is fucking huge in this business. Try to intern where you think you'll want to work so you can see firsthand how the guys and gals actually act in the office. My floor is full of professional people but they're all super assholes (including myself), but that's why I like what I do so much.
Also, during your interview don't forget to smash dat fuccin like
Jesus, so you didn't really have much say in where you ended up? Interesting.
Right, the hours thing doesn't bother me much as I already squander hours of my day looking at numbers and charts. I look forward to my education if only to know more useful things to research and pore over.
On the subject of the culture, can you elaborate on that? I'm pretty social, outgoing, fit in well with a group bantering, etc. But I'm also on Veeky Forums and a lightweight autist. Is it like fraternity/bro culture you're speaking of? Or more of just banter and acting like a douche?
You don't really choose, if you get an IB internship in your junior year of college and do well, then you have a good shot of going into IB.
If you get a corporate finance internship in your junior year, then you're probably going to go into corporate finance.
If you don't get an internship, you probably won't get a job
Join a fraternity, start drinking and partying so you know how to cut loose and act in these types of situations (nobody likes a sloppy drunk), start working out (it'll help), and get good at talking to women. Our floor feels a lot like my fraternity in college did, as in everybody is a douche and an asshole but we're all good at our jobs and are charismatic (a literal fucking necessity of the job).
You don't have to act this way, though. Go read Liar's Poker by Michael Lewis. Also check out Straight to Hell by John LeFevre. Those books should give you an idea of culture within two different banks, though it's a little different these days buy you'll get the gist.
You'll find out if the job is for you or not pretty quickly. Nobody likes the work but if you don't like the corporate culture then the shoe don't fit.
You obviously haven't seen this guy's dank memes bud.
Straight to Hell is hilarious.
not him op, and i've never worked in finance, but make sure you read every entry in this blog from beginning to end:
I think I can pull that off. Been in college for a few years and never joined a frat, but I have a lot of friends in fraternities and have always had a good time hanging with them. Actually I started to prefer my frat friends because the hipster types were never in the mood to really get down and party. I'm not one of the edgy fedora lords who outright shunned the fraternity lifestyle, just never came up.
Cool I'll check those books out. Like the above poster suggested, should I be searching for an internship once I'm in my upper tier finance classes then?
Fucking right. You follow Goldman Sachs Elevator? Same fucking guy that wrote that book admins that page and plays the part of a satirical narcissistic, fratty-douche so goddamn well.
Start applying sophomore summer and every summer until you graduate. I interned at Goldman (thanks to who my father is ((nepotism is very fucking real in this industry deal with it))) my sophomore summer then interned at Citi my junior summer. Took the job offer Citi gave me right after graduating. Some cats get offers that don't intern but their dads work upstairs or their uncle is a large client or something.
Absolutely, I love it.
Okay, well fuck. Best connect I've got is a senior guy at MetLife, doesn't really carry to banking. Got to work on the schmoozing game.
Awesome, got that bookmarked thanks
Use your brain kid. MetLife is an insurance company but also a financial services company. They sell derivatives (swaps, forwards, futures, etc.) so if he's a "senior guy" then he may know somebody in the derivatives trading department that knows a fair amount of bankers. Reach out to him whenever you feel you are properly prepared and be prepared to be yourself yet put your best foot forward.
I read GSE more than the WSJ honestly.
Interesting. Alright, I'll have to play that card at the right time, I think that's my best chance into this whole thing. Overall, how important is your actual GPA in all this? Is it a big factor or are the connections the primary factor in landing gigs? I've got a fucked GPA from not really doing well in nursing classes, working on getting that back up
The question was what you would do with ten million, not how much money do you have, cuck
He got caught up in the nursing meme
At least you are getting a mans job now, you probably need to be reprogrammed. It sounds like bro culture scares you a bit but we have all been there.
This is pretty autistic but one fun thing I like to do is think of clever comebacks to stupid insults. If you can think of a good one for sister/mother jokes you will be able to survive well at big dickhead places with a frat atmosphere.
Anything below 3.5 and you may get skipped over. Anything below 3.0 and you better find another industry to work in. That's the easiest way to put it.
That tweet was referencing the joke, "What would you do if you woke up and your wife told you that you had 10 million dollars? I'd ask her where the rest of my money was."
This. It's weird how much everyone fucks with each other and busts balls around our floor yet half the guys I drink with after work do weird Patrick Bateman-type morning rituals and shit. Ironic I guess.
yeah I sure did. thank god I'm on the right track now at least. alright ha, funny advice I'll try that.
alright, I'm sitting just under 3.0 cause I dun goofed for a while. Any advice on time management? You schedule is pretty strict I'm assuming. Do you drink during the week, that type of thing? Any classic pitfalls of the trade I can avoid in my early years?
I wake up around 6am every morning and start my routine. Usually read today's WSJ with CNN on in the background while I do crunches, pushups, pullups, and a bit of yoga. Eat then shower at 7am. I'm at work by market open at the latest every day that I work. Usually order lunch in so I can keep working. Leave around 5pm/6pm to either meet with clients for dinner/drinks or colleagues for the same thing. Try to make it home before 11pm at the latest (some nights get a little out of hand). Rinse and repeat.
I didn't do half of that shit when I first started out though, I just found a routine I liked and stuck with it. You'll find out what you do and don't have time for when you start working.
As for classic pitfalls of the trade, those would depend on what time of banking you'd like to go into. For my desk;
know goddamn LIBOR the minute it is reported
tie your fucking tie the correct way before you get off of the elevator
know about big deals and stay "plugged in" to what the floor is doing
be a smartass to someone who signs your paycheck
be fucking late
talk about politics (or any of that shit)
shake my hand every time you see me just because I'm higher up than you
Those are just general tips for working though. That was intentional as you have to make bad decisions and bad trades to figure out why you don't want to make those bad choices and to also know the repercussions of those bad choices. A good trader never stays focused on a bad trade. It just goes with the saying, "Don't marry your trades."
Pretty straightforward, the early morning stuff sounds like it opens up the day in a really focused way. I'll probably pick up what fits best as I learn, like you said. Don't talk politics, it almost sounds obvious, but this is good to hear just as confirmation.
Is there a target age to make these internships and to start a career like this in general? I'm 21 now and will probably have two, three more years of school before I graduate. So I'll be maybe 24 when I get my bachelor's. This is fine, right?
I really like the idea of an investment banker. What qualifications would I need? Also would knowing someone in the bank (aka my father) give me better chances at the job?
Why can't you talk about politics? Does it have to do with the chance an argument or feuds could break out?
IB and other High Finance you will need some top tier shit from a non top tier uni 3.7+. Top tier unit 3.5+.
Pretty much this. There are so many finance grads, OP, because kids look at people high up the chain and think damn I want to get rich and there is a very glamoured perspective of high finance by pretty much everyone.
Also, don't restrict yourself to IB and other glamoured banking sectors and SEA. If you want to work in SEA I would go on exchange in a specific country for a year and learn the language (some traders speech on how to get in to trading said this because he wanted to work in Asia and went on exchange for that reason or soething like that).
I post this alot, but, I have family in IB and they work INSANE hours. 80+ hours. 4 day weekend week and they still wroked 7 days a week and for 36 hours straight on the weekend. It's brutal and they pay per hour isn't great until you reach about 30 and making 250k a year.
You can work at commercial banks and do similar roles for better pay per hour, but, you just wont be hitting those big bucks when you're 40. Just focus on getting a GPA and network the fuck. Talk to your parents and see if they have connections. Most kids with finance/business majors get in the industry because their dad knows someone or works in the industry. HR friend nly got in because his dad was an organisational psychologist and had connections, friends dad was a quant doing risk analysis etc so he could a good job/good pay at a big bank.
HR (typically lefties) might hold a grudge against you for voting xyz or abc party. Not just HR, any superior or coworker might play office politics to try and get you fired or fire you if they have the power
Do you think know other languages makes you more attractive been in the Anglo sphere? I know French, German, Spanish, Russian and working on Japanese
Absolutely. Go work in Europe. It's not essential (obviously) but there are niches to be filled.
This might interest you.
1) Undergrad Commerce(Law/com; Com/Arts; Econ/Com; Com/Math; Com/Science); GPA: 5.75/7+; Internship/Cadetship/Office Experience
Yea basically this Comm/engineering is becoming huge in the banking sector as well. For all non aus fags, commerce is just a business degree where you pick a major like accounting, hr, finance, econ etc. Law/Comm and Com/Math are also good choices.
Yeah forgot that one lol
Also forgot the value of a good resume and cv.
decides to change study
knows nothing about the industry
born out of your mother's shitty disease ridden vagina
immediately knows everything about finance
I congratulate you on your preemptive knowledge of all things concerning everything,
but that's what the education is for you retarded fucking troglodyte
again, thanks to all for the helpful info
Hey there. As the son of someone who was recently very high up in top tier global investment banks in australia, I can tell you that having a father in the industry is not going to help. How exactly do you think that would work? These are huge companies, one person can not influence the hiring process in any way.
If you want to get into investment banking you'll need to have 2 degrees and good marks. Getting an internship is not going to guarantee you a job.
Even if you do manage to get a job, know this. You will live at your job, and you will be a slave for 5 years. The pay will be good because of the hours you work, but if you work out the hourly rate, you would actually make more per hour as a barrista.
Salaries have been cut massively. You're going to get 180-250k a year, I can tell you it used to be much more then that.
If you're a nice person, your personality is not right for investment banking. To sum it all up, its very difficult to get into and not really worth it. There is nothing glamorous about it, its a very harsh environment to work in, its a very stressful job and there are lots of pitfalls
Being this much of a sensitive bitch
Confirmed not gonna make it
This guy's right. Should've done your research. Not trying to shit on you any more than you've already shat on yourself. It's your future, man. You tell everyone on the internet that you barely thought past posting stupid questions on an imageboard and of course you'll get called out for it.
Do interviews, ask people in the industry, read insider guides, hit the books, check syllabuses for finance units, internships, etc. That's pretty much it. There's just no shortcut to doing your own research, you dangus.