I'm guessing renting is better than buying a house if you're the type who burns...

Emberfire
Emberfire

I'm guessing renting is better than buying a house if you're the type who burns bridges with just about everyone they meet?

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL10H_EcB-E
Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Emberfire

Renting is just throwing money away.

Buying is always the better option

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Emberfire
I bought a house right before the real estate market got retarded in 2007. The value of my house basically didn't change for 8 years, and has only now started going up. This has still been a great move for me though, since I'm basically paying $500 a month to live in a 2000 square foot house. Rent for the same thing in my neighborhood is four times that.

Evilember
Evilember

@Gigastrength
Renting is just throwing money away.
And home ownership isn't?
Stop paying your property tax and then we will see who truly owns the land.

Yes, renting is the best option unless you get one of hell of a cheap house and right now considering homes are at record prices, no...no....no

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Evilember

Stop paying your rent and then well see who truly owns the land. what's your point exactly?

With renting you lose 100% of your money.

When you buy you can recover most, if not all, of the money you spend on mortgage, taxes, and maintenance

It's simple math.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Gigastrength
This desu. If you can @Gigastrength
buy a home in a decent area for 3% interest, rent out the home and live in the basement.

You'll break even at least on a per monthly basis and be able to save a lot of money, while having access to a kitchen, bathroom, and basement (which you could spend some money pimping out).

DeathDog
DeathDog

@LuckyDusty
When you buy you can recover most, if not all, of the money you spend on mortgage, taxes, and maintenance
No you can't, especially if instead of paying a big down payment you put it in index funds, while you rented.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@DeathDog

go put it on trump coin and lose it all you rere

you dont know what you are talking about when it comes too your own money..big expert with others money though, right?

how many tendies does mommy give u fag?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@DeathDog

The average home costs $188,00. A typical down payment would be $18,800. The returns you would get from index funds on that amount will not even be remotely close to offset the money you would lose every year on rent.

Like I said, it's basic math.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@eGremlin
you dont know what you are talking about when it comes too your own money..big expert with others money though, right?

Okay Mr. Smarty Pants. What is the average price appreciation per year of a house Assuming of course we don't go into another recession.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

Home
(50k) down
-paying interest
-paying excessive closing costs
-paying PMI
-paying upkeep and taxes (in addition to mortgage)

Assume your 200k house is worth 220k after 10 years.
Subtract from that 20k everything above and you made no money and went negative.
Likely walking away with under the money you put in.

Rent
50k Index funds
+getting dividends
-paying upkeep and taxes (in rent)
Rent is cheaper than a house and utilities are cheaper.

After 10 years your index funds are worth 130k and the money you saved in utilities, and cheaper living beats the house.

When does the house beat the apartment. Likely over 15yrs, assuming you don't move or do excessive remodeling. Basically living cheap.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Nude_Bikergirl

You don't need to put $50,000 down to buy a house. That's absurd.

Average rent in the US is $992, which comes out to $119,040 over 10 years, and that's not factoring inflation and rent increases.

And what do you have to show for it when you go to move? Nothing. You literally gave $100,000+ to a homeowner.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@viagrandad
That average rent is because a lot of people rent houses, not apartments.

I don't think you realize how expensive closing costs, pmi and taxes really are. Though the taxes depend on your state. PA has property tax, school tax, employment tax, state tax, local tax, etc.

Evilember
Evilember

@iluvmen
This!

Location location location. Renting vs buying isn't so black and white. Buying isn't just paying your mortgage. You also lose the freedom to move for better work.

If you plan on staying in an area and settling down and find a great deal for your dream house by all means go for it.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Emberfire

Depends, really. If you live in a rural area, you might not even SEE your neighbors walking to your car.

@Gigastrength

Not true all the time, depending on your goals and your situation. I personally agree with your point, but I object to your wording.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Emberfire
Im glad I bought.
I dont want to be some old retired guy still paying rent. Fuck thar shit.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Gigastrength
Buying is always the better option
Not true at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL10H_EcB-E

girlDog
girlDog

@viagrandad
You don't need to put $50,000 down to buy a house. That's absurd.
$50,000 down payment is too little in a lot of metropolitan areas. Assuming average 20% down payment, $250,000 isn't going to buy you shit in a lot of cities.

5mileys
5mileys

@viagrandad
Regarding home ownership, your forgot to factor in the amount of interest you lose to repay the loan, and also you forgot to factor in the amount of taxes you lose.

For a $417,000.00 house (let's pretend we're not hillbillies), @3.5% rate loan, you lose $130,571.91 just on interest over 10 years. + $21270.00 (@$2,127/year avg property tax) + $X? maintenance/repairs.

So that's $119,040(rent)

vs
$130,571.91(interest) + $21,270.00(taxes) = $151,841.91 you literally threw away for home ownership.

Not to mention you have to live/work in your shitty town for 10 years because you took away your own mobility.

askme
askme

@5mileys
and also, depending on the loan amount, home ownership doesn't start to break even with until around year 15, so unless you plan to live in the same place for 20+ years just so you can justify your lodging costs, it's not worth it.

WebTool
WebTool

@Snarelure

why do buyfags always ignore taxes, maintenance , hoa

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

i have a 15 year fixed APR mortgage at 3%

I pay $650 for mortgage, $300 taxes, and $300 HOA (which covers most maintenance).

At $1250/mo, it's probably right about the same as the renting costs around here, but I get ~$400 knocked off my principal and I'm able to write off the interest, so in the end it's cheaper for me to own.

FastChef
FastChef

@ZeroReborn
1250$ a month
Buffalo?

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@FastChef
middle of CT

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

Houses are generally nicer and have a bunch of benefits that aren't entirely monetary. My wife and I were able to get 2-3x the space in a neighborhood away from all the wageslaves and poors for like $200 more a month.

@5mileys
Paying 3.5% on a mortgage
A.D. 2016
Making the minimum payments for 10 years
2k property taxes on a 400k house

You're all over the place man.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Emberfire

Can I buy a house with a mortgage and rent it out?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@New_Cliche

I estimated low (used national average for property taxes) but using a higher property tax value, which would be the case for a ~$400k home, only further proves my point.

I dare you to provide more realistic numbers and prove to everyone here that you're not A1 shitposting

massdebater
massdebater

Why pay rent when I could be paying a mortgage ? If I put a big enough deposit down the mortgage payments + tax etc would work out at about the same as renting and in 10-15 years the house can be paid off,on top of that if I rent then I am limited by what I can do to the house,I wouldn't spend time and money making a nice garden or interior if I'm renting ,if you live in the city then I guess renting is the way to go because who wants to spend a fortune on some shitty apartment.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Boy_vs_Girl
If you're purchasing a 400k house it's reasonable to assume you've got a decent credit score and you can pretty easily obtain a mortgage in the 2.7%-2.9% range. I don't have any friends who have personally gotten below 2.7% but it might be possible.

Houses in the 400k range are typically in areas where you're going to be paying significantly more in property taxes. Depending on the area you could EASILY be paying 10k+ per year in property taxes. Getting this adjusted downward is a major pain in the ass.

If you're making the minimum payments on anything you're just doing it wrong in my opinion. I know there are advantages to holding low interest debt but I'm personally not a fan. The point of this is that a mortgage will allow you to manage that conversation in a way that renting simply cannot. It's also worth noting that all three of the places I lived as a renter I had rent increased on me during my tenure but I have yet to have a mortgage payment increase on me.

Personally I think you reached a decent conclusion but you're comparing a 400k house to a fucking 1-2 BR apartment. That is a huge difference in standard of living. It's like trying to justify why you like to eat frozen hamburgers because filet mignon costs a quarter more per pound.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Lunatick

Depending on the area you could EASILY be paying 10k+ per year in property taxes
More like $4000/year. Take Seattle for example, it's not extreme like SF, LA, or NY, OK, TN, WY.

Either way, higher property taxes even further proves my point of why it's not sensible to buy if you're not going to be living in it long-term (or flipping it within the first 5/10).

If you're making the minimum payments on anything you're just doing it wrong in my opinion
Agreed. But for that mortgage (@30 years), you're already looking at roughly $~1900/month for (which is much higher than paying closer to $1000 which is easily attainable for that area).

t's like trying to justify why you like to eat frozen hamburgers because filet mignon costs a quarter more per pound

Well yeah, everyone has their own opinions as to what they prefer. I was simply showing numbers to illustrate my main point of: that unless you're going to hold on to a house long-term, or sell within the first 5-10 years, the argument that "you're throwing away money on rent" isn't really valid if you're throwing away well over that on interest, PMI, property tax, maintenance/repairs, etc.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

A tiny apartment costs one million here so normal people are forced to rent

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@5mileys

As a renter, I pay $346 USD for a room (utilities included). City I live in has population 400,000. Short-term lease.

No risk rent, add to that the ability to travel for work at the drop of a hat. My line of work implies travel, so it makes no sense to own a house that I would not live in most of the year.

Inmate
Inmate

@BinaryMan
index funds
always go up

This guy

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Emberfire
Lol, nope. Have fun getting kicked out after u piss off your landlord. Why are u a cunt?

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Evilember
This

THIS

1,000,000 TIMES THIS!

GG user. Once u understand the dream is a myth and the only way i will be a whit male landowner is outside of the usa then life gets easier

That being said, i bought a shitty crackhouse because i fucking hated my faggot landlord and let me tell you. I spend more thatmn double what i soent on rent just to keep my goddamn showers and shit going.

Paying 3 grand to get a fucking spider tree removed as its already fucked my foundations face off.

My advice to anyone anywhere.

unless u can buy a new home every 10 years

RENT UNTIL U FUCKING DIE

Emberfire
Emberfire

@DeathDog
Lol, trusting my life savings ro a stock market.

Smh

Index fund fags fucking kill me

Flameblow
Flameblow

@BinaryMan
Lol, not to mention the inevitable crash...

SniperWish
SniperWish

@PurpleCharger
100% doffers by area.

There is no avearage>>

WebTool
WebTool

@Nude_Bikergirl
LOL U STUPID FUCKING FAGGOT

MUH INDEX FUNDS

FUCKING GO FOR IT!

and when a crash comes and your money is gone and u have to sell your house ill be the one raping u on it because you trusted your mortgage to a fucking stock market...
FUCKING REEEE

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Evilember
This.

But i opted for 2 crackhouses side by side for 30k. My wife and i together make 70k. Mfw i am debt free at 32. Will own my homes. Have 6 cars. And invest over 35k a year on down payments for real estate.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Playboyize
implying everyone is irresponsible and autistic enough to piss off their landlord. I think for Anon's situation as single and living alone or at least hang no kids, renting is fine. Especially if it's a nice,area. Property tax eats out of your pokects yearly for even most,decent neighborhoods. Not to mentiosn cost of maintainace and value deprecation over a long period of time. That's why the user who posted @Gigastrength
is making a huge overstatement that many people here including me,don't agree with.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@5mileys
417k. Jesus christ

pretend we aint hillbillys
nope
bought my house that is a converted duplex and therefore called the laberynth for 20k.
its fucking massive and also a massive shithole
bought the crackhouse next door for 10k
fuck u user i luv being a hillbilly

Litterally the onlybreason i bought the place next door was for storage and a place to park my shitty canper and a few project cars and mowers.

Fucking get on my level.

I make like 55k a year and am well on my way to millions.

Wich i will use to buy my wife a nice house and buy land to stash old cars on to tinker with for no good reason other than shits and gigs.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@WebTool
insinuating my shit hillbilly town has an hoa

I have had an untagged cat sitting in my yard with weeds growing around it for 2 years just because the battery died.

Fucking kek.
As a buyfag though i 100% agree.

Nothing is worse than your shitter breaking and not having the money to fix it or even know how for 2 fucking weeks...

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Stupidasole
That os litterally what most rich people do. I am doing it now...

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Emberfire
if your a handyman buy an foreclosed house

fix it up as you go then you can sell it later for more

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Lunatick
@Boy_vs_Girl
@New_Cliche
@hairygrape
FUCKING NEETS its relative to the actual house your looking
Some houses are more cost effective to buy, and some are better to rent. It depends on a number of factors and there are fucking calculators to tell you when its more cost effective to rent instead of buy
nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@StrangeWizard
The cocksucker said he burns almost all bridges.

trying to make logic at me

FUCKOFF

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Methnerd
Some houses are more cost effective to buy
Yeah, shit shacks in Nowheresville with 30% unemployment.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@New_Cliche
I was calling OP irresponsible/ autistic obviously lol

SniperWish
SniperWish

This conversation is pointless until you all post your property taxes.

Springfield, MO
0.87%

and if I'm willing to drive an extra five miles every day I could do any of the small cities right outside

Rogersville, MO
0.58%

Meanwhile

St. Louis, MO
1.4%

Newark, NJ
2.2%

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Skullbone
These are the people giving you financial advice.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@SniperWish
you live in Missouri? a.k.a miseri? kek. No wonder the property tax is so low, most people in their right minds would not want to live there and most of the midwest.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@PackManBrainlure
live in STL
eat toasted ravioli and gooey butter cake
work for major manufacturer
low cost of living while wages are competitive with other parts of the country
tfw based gun laws

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@SniperWish
Springfield, Mo

Are you me? I thought I was the only Veeky Forums in the area.

King_Martha
King_Martha

make 73k
live in NY
work in NYC
houses are at least $350k anywhere near my job

I'm never moving out of my mom's house am I. Fuck this state. It's going to take me like 5 years to save up enough just for a 20% down payment.

askme
askme

@King_Martha
Get married to a woman who makes 50k+ and you'll be able to afford it pretty quick.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@askme
Get married
woman marrying me

Heh heh... yeah, good one man..

Firespawn
Firespawn

@iluvmen
If you truly are a disgusting troll I bet an old woman would marry you just for your health insurance.

WebTool
WebTool

@ZeroReborn
Why do you ignore your expensive utility bills, PMI, and other stuff like cutting the grass, etc?

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@New_Cliche
2-3x the space in a neighborhood away from all the wageslaves and poors for like $200 more a month.
I perfectly understand this. You want to pay for something better, but people can't act like they are saving money,

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@massdebater
If I put a big enough deposit down
Which could be invested in an index fund and in 10 to 15 years you have a lot of money also for none of the problems of home ownership.

15yrs
new roof
new furnace
two new AC's
maybe windows
screendoors
etc

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@SniperWish
There is an average. Like 1 to 3 percent a year home appreciation. Say 2 percent.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@LuckyDusty
Yeah but not everything is about minimizing cost. If people feel like the additional cost is a good value then I don't see the problem with it.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@eGremlin
Then you are on the wrong board. We are trying to save or make more money, not be happy. Emotions are fickle and change with the wind. Money is eternal.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Fuzzy_Logic
Nah I think the goal here is to maximize value. Sometimes that value comes in the form of returns and sometimes it comes in the form of not living like a peasant.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Spazyfool
Then I think you belong on slickdeals.net

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@WebTool
I pay for my own electricity, however water/sewage/landscaping are taken care of by the HOA. I don't have PMI as I put down 20% when taking the loan.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Sir_Gallonhead
Then your situation is far different from the family who puts 3% down. Also I personally wouldn't pay an HOA if I had my own place. That is more of a condo/townhouse situation then what most people think of when buying a house.

Inmate
Inmate

@Booteefool
It's okay rentbro. One day maybe I'll let you come over and we can have some drinks on my patio and serve you dinner. My dining room comfortably seats 10 people so you can bring friends. You do have friends don't you rentbro?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Inmate
You do have friends don't you rentbro?
One left. Only really just text.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@w8t4u

Aren't HOA allowed to make decisions about your home that no man should have to yield?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@w8t4u
the family who puts 3% down
Who the fuck does this?
That's right up there with a payday loan.
Out here, most people say 20% or forget it.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Nude_Bikergirl
Aren't HOA allowed to make decisions about your home that no man should have to yield?
The same applies to condo associations and pretty much any grouping of property like it. More broadly, even if you do live in a home without an HOA, you are behooven to city planning boards, zoning boards, etc. They are almost universally staffed by self-important idiots who should be culled from the gene pool.

Fun story: My relatives own a few properties that I sometimes helped manage as a teen because free labor. We decided to erect a beautiful sign in the yard of one of the buildings - expensive, ornate, better than anything else in the area (which featured, for the most part, ugly factory, weeds, and metal signs balanced against walls). The Zoning Board proceeds to require MULTIPLE inspections, evaluations, surveys, etc., all for a fucking 2ft x 1ft sign, and all because "well it could be pushed over by a hurricane." Naturally, all the inspectors/surveyors were friends of the Board.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Gigastrength
Buying a house is better if you have the money to outright buy it.

If you have to get a mortgage that is going to last years and years you might as well just rent because you're too much of a poorfag for home ownership.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Boy_vs_Girl
FHA loans are 3% or less if you get a veteran loan.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Carnalpleasure
Also the average is just about 15% for all loans. Though I think this may be a little skewed higher with the Chinese buyers paying cash.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Carnalpleasure
I'm not saying it's impossible.
I'm saying you'll end up paying a greater percentage of interest.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

So wait is it throwing away money to rent an apartment or is this just about renting homes?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Ignoramus
Basically there are a lot of factors to consider, though my conclusion is that a reasonable person mindful of the factor will be better off renting unless they play on staying at the same place for over 10+yrs.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Garbage Can Lid
for over 10+yrs.
the break-even point on a 30 year loan is closer to 5 years. That's assuming your property doesn't increase in value.

For example my house increased in value by $80k over the last 3 years. This is an unusual case, but in that sort of market you'd be best off buying and holding for even a year, you'll make money.

also if you buy and then do a little work to improve the value of your house you can make money pretty quickly. This takes some research though, most people don't know what improvements actually boost house prices.

Techpill
Techpill

@Spamalot
As stated above the average person is lucky to get 2% price appreciation a year, yours is a major outlier. Most people couldn't make back their interest and closing costs in 10 years, yet alone 5.

The improvements thing has been a proven money sink. I think it was consumer reports that did a story on what home improvements were best value for the money. Most were negative, with kitchens being the worst because people tent to want to customize it themselves.

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