Basic Income

Flameblow
Flameblow

global economy is entirely dependent on consumerism
if people spend money, economy grows
if people don't spend, economy shrinks or collapses

Can Veeky Forums enlighten me as to why the government can't just give everyone free money and allow them to spend it?

inb4 inflation

Inflation won't skyrocket if spending is diversified. If everyone just bought say something like real estate for example, ofcourse prices are going to skyrocket. The only way I see inflation being kept under control is to set limits to what you can and not buy with variable time limits.

This ofcourse triggers the libertarian, but no one cares about you guys anyway.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Flameblow
Inflation...

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Flameblow
global economy is entirely dependent on consumerism
not true. It's entirely dependent on productivity, or the ability to produce goods cheaply and efficiently.

If goods are too expensive to produce, then the price will rise beyond what the consumer can pay, and the economy will grind to a halt.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

As mega corporations continue to automate their work flow, they'll accumulate untold billions if not trillions of dollars. They'll be heavily taxed which will pay for society's standard of living, allowing for us to not only have a basic income but housing as well.

The idea is to up the very baseline of society, from there if you want more you'll have to do something creative in terms of computation to gain more wealth.

askme
askme

I think people are just so tired of having to work some dead end mindless routine job just to stay alive. People are feeling morally exhausted living in a system that's going nowhere fast unless something changes. Silicon Valley will probably be the ones who lead the paradigm shift of finances, while Wall Street and the corrupt banks will fall one by one until they're cleaned out of civilization.

iluvmen
iluvmen

The point of this transition is to bring forth an era of human creativity. Being locked up in some warehouse 8 hours a day is not good for the soul, we need to be out in nature feeling the sun beam against our face. We need to connect more to this planet instead of these synthetic realities we endure, fucking fake plastic chemicalized life styles is destroying us from within.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@RavySnake
@LuckyDusty
you tie the payout to GDP, basic income as a citizen's dividend on the nation's production.
we're moving towards redistribution of wealth anyways, why not do it right?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Flameblow
Australia's solution to the GFC was to, unnecessarily dump cash in the economy to 'stimulate' the economy. It was done over two tranches.

The concert was basic in that money would be used to buy good and services and continue growth as the other economies slowed, or teetered on collapse.

The Australian economy is a different beast, it was safe, and moves at a delay to the rest of the world as it is influenced by both Eastern and Western markets.

Anyway. The cash was released, the cash was used to pay mortgages. The public saw the fear mongering from news sources about the US housing crisis and dumped their 'stimulus package/s' into mortgages. Between 600 to 3000 per household from memory - pending on means testing.

So your idea simply won't work.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@SniperWish
*concept.

Fucking autocorrect

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@SniperWish
you didnt explain why it wouldn't work.
you conveyed a thing that happened that has nothing to do with basic income.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@BlogWobbles
Millennial thinking.

Look backwards to move forwards young padawan.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@VisualMaster
but your example has nothing to do with basic income.

FastChef
FastChef

Also, communism.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Flameblow
Think of a nations currency as a pie, every dollar is a slice. If I printend more dollars and giving them as basic income, I am giving them more dollars, but I am also increasing the total pie. This means that the dollars I gave theme are worth less, this is the basis of inflation.

The only way to really give people who are poor to have a livable wage when the market doesn't is to take money that already is part of the pie and redistribute it. Aka steal from rich, give to poor. There are a bunch ofor legal reasons to disallow this, but mainly it just disincentivises producers from producing. Why would I work twice as hard, making a great product if I make the same as burger boy?

Tldr: raising minimum wage artificially causes inflation or unemployment 100% of the time.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Ignoramus
*Increasing the amount of slices without increasing the size of the pie, sorry

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Ignoramus
this is the basis of inflation.
i dont think he meant printing new money given this is about basic income.
but also you're being extremely simplistic. inflation doesnt actually matter unless it becomes runaway inflation that devalues the currency and how resilient a currency is to inflation varies. america for example through it's """quantitative easing""" solution basically just printed money out the recession. the threshold where inflation becomes is a problem is where people stop trusting the value of the money.... america has multiple reasons for the resiliency of that trust.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Fried_Sushi
Yes, but the point is relative value internally, not against the global market. True, a tiny bit of inflation. Will never hurt our global interactions, but internally it devalues money based on many factors. No matter where they get the money to give to the poor, by taxes or by forcing a higher minimum wage, the rich are paying for it. They will raise product cost to cover difference. Now we have inflated product costs, everyone who makes over minimum wage will want a raise to deal with inflated costs. Now, everyone is in the exact same place financially, but everything is called 1000 instead of 100. That was they point of the pie analogy.

There is no law keeping employers from doing that or firing employees who now cost too much. Unless that law exists, no minimum wage hikes will matter.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Crazy_Nice
how dated is this example? there's dust all over this logic.
your example relies on domestic producers serving domestic consumers with zero international competition or international business.
globablization has killed this method of runaway inflation.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Ignoramus
the jury is still out on what tax rate disincentivises producers from producing.

a good example of it would be that poor people could and would buy more shit with their newfound money, incentivizing producers to produce more.

Same goes for minimal wage. No drastic measures like directly to $15 per hour, but slow incremental increases would be a start

farquit
farquit

@Soft_member
And what happens when overseas producers end up in the same position

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@farquit
China's is like the capitalistic wild West. You expect the people to seize the means of production (again) any time soon?

Supergrass
Supergrass

@SomethingNew
basing your scheme on taxing companies
Hahaha. Nice one. Good luck.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Supergrass
Then we're fucked. Get ready to starve as the financial elite horde everything from themselves. You don't seem to have any other solutions.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

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