Is it still smart to invest in gold and silver?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Is it still smart to invest in gold and silver?

All urls found in this thread:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-point-of-no-return-for-quantitative-easing-is-getting-closer-2016-07-28
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ndshbH3qZ6Y
http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-the-mint/bullion-dna-8900026#.V82YSOt6Wh8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLlt9OxvHDWsmbZtKQ4bEVj68Y49xfSdA3&v=4M6smCIe6e8&ebc=ANyPxKozT_pOsjBcwWcGIm3SiicjTImkxPv2oFWjLFpoOJ61AkYc0wagInzkoSjh2kDkBzIBIpGwS9Ta0vEL0nrWEnI_H5JD3g
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7LOZhaxTw0I
http://dailyreckoning.com/205-trillion-in-unfunded-liabilities/
http://www.goldcore.com/us/gold-blog/global-debt-now-200-trillion/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/05/13/ben-carsons-claim-that-the-u-s-owes-211-trillion-beyond-the-reported-federal-debt/
http://mercatus.org/sites/default/files/debt-in-perspective-analysis.pdf
SniperWish
SniperWish

@TalkBomber
Both are used extensively in the electronics industry and will run out in a few decades.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@SniperWish
Is that a yes?

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

Yes, but you could get burnt in the short term if you purchased right now.

girlDog
girlDog

@SniperWish
what is recycling

takes2long
takes2long

Also interested in this topic. I have a decent amount of fiat that I'm not using & have very little confidence in western economies. If anybody knows specifically about buying precious metals in Australia, advice would be great

Inmate
Inmate

holding some gold YES

Putting all your life savings on gold NO

Methshot
Methshot

@girlDog
What is higher demand day by day.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@TalkBomber
Own gold and silver only if you like gold and silver
Do not constantly rant and rave about financial collapse
Do not constantly rant about hyperinflation
Have other investments also

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

Don't invest in gold. Buy gold as an insurance policy. When gold goes up, it's not because its value has risen. It's because the US dollar is falling in value. Because the US dollar is not backed by gold like it used to be in the 70s, it's basically just paper printed out in huge quantities out of a printer, it's overinflated and past the point of no return. And it may drop further in October when China is added to the global reserve currency. You know that if every American had to pay back debt to break even, every American would have to pay back nearly $700K, when you factor in social security, medical programs, etc. Gold is basically a hedge, that if the US dollar falls (and it will, because it's past the point of no return), then when that time comes your gold will become much more valuable. One ounce of gold right now is a little over $1300. But if it were to be considered part of the money supply, denoted by the terms m1, m2 or m3, you're looking at each ounce having a purchasing power of between 10 and 50 thousand dollars per ounce. China is quietly trying to build up their reserves as quickly as possible, since they've already accepted the US dollar's demise. It's a matter of when, not if. And if it happens in your lifetime, you ought to get an insurance policy against it: GOLD. Of course silver, commodities and many hard assets which can't just be printed out of the air from nothing will also gain value as well.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Dreamworx

bro, what exactly is the point of no return?

Soft_member
Soft_member

The point of no return is when the US can't give value to the US dollar by any other means than inflation (raising interest rates). The federal reserve is inflating the currency with every opportunity they get. They do this because they have no other tactic to use in paying back their debts. It's basically currency manipulation. For example, In the 90's, $1mil USD was a lot of money. Today that same amount of money only has the purchasing power of $500k or less. That's because of inflation, which is exponentially reaching for the sky. Keeping money valuable is big business for rich people in particular, it is why they have money managers. They know that just keeping their money in US dollars will mean they lose money (not the numbers, but the purchasing power) over time.

5mileys
5mileys

To make it a long story short, the US dollar is totally horseshit, smoke and mirrors, toilet paper currency. Sure, it a large basis for global trade, but they are increasingly being rejected by eastern countries like Russia and China who are no longer basing trade on their currency.

Read http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-point-of-no-return-for-quantitative-easing-is-getting-closer-2016-07-28

Understand what helicopter money is.

I recommend reading the book The New Case for Gold by Jim Rickards. You can download it on Library Genesis (a pirate website) or just buy the book. The author is active on Twitter and has lots of free educational info on his website.

idontknow
idontknow

I forgot to mention, that most economists tend to agree that 10% of your total savings in gold is a proper amount to hold for insurance purposes. Any more than that, and it becomes more about investing in gold than as an insurance policy. 10% is based on what gold would be valued if shit hits the fan and all of a sudden gold has m1, m2, or m3 distributive value. This would mean your wealth would be preserved entirely and likely at a gain in the event of a US dollar collapse, which all educated economists agree will happen due to the poor fundamentals of the US dollar.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

Supposing the QE bubble bursts: how bad do people suppose it to be? Like bullets and beans, or just having tangible assets is enough?

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

On a final note, buy physical gold and not ETF's. Gold stocks can be good for trade but those are highly volatile and not as safe. Gold confiscation might seem like a pie in the sky thing, but it's a regular reality. Deutsche Bank recently confiscated its customers' gold, much to their shock and surprise. Gold is being actively sold off to China from many parts of the world right now. If everyone demanded physical gold for their gold ETF holdings, there simply is not enough gold to go around for distribution, which would cause riots. People would instead get some sort of gold certificate or paper promise when they go to withdraw. The real deal is the physical bar that you hold in your hand.

Snarelure
Snarelure

How bad will the bubble be? Well let me put it to you this way. Remember the 2008 financial crisis, when the markets crashed? It never was resolved in real life. It was just masked by more federal reserve bullshit, QE. They have the power to make money worth whatever they want, just like the moves of a puppeteer. But the tools they use are limited and are starting to break at their seams. The confidence in the US dollar is being challenged by major global superpowers, rich people, and economists. It's going to be super bad when things crash back to the foundation. It might not happen on the next crash, but possibly on the one after. The economy tends to crash in 7 or so year cycles. Some people time these crashes in order to get rich. My advice if you're a new investor is this: a stock market crash in the near future, within the next few years, is highly probable, and you're best strategy is holding some US dollars to buy stock when the market is low and sell when the fed fixes things with their magic wand. But also keep 10% of your savings in precious metals, or gold in particular.

Evilember
Evilember

@Soft_member

Interesting article.

But your post is not without argument and I will continue to argue until you shit the truth in my mouth.

The U.S will always be able to give value to the US dollar by force. It has the largest army in the world and can always go rape/enslave some countries, arguably making a profit in their military investment.

Moreover as long as commodities are traded in $, demand for $ will be somewhat steady (sure, in the process of extracting a metal and selling that metal to a manufacturing agent, the metal may never end up being priced in $. But, where big financial players like airlines and energy companies exist, they employ hedging strategies on global markets to ensure their profitability.)

Economies are built on innovation and competition with other territories & entities. I suppose it's not much of an argument given how dumbed down the american populace is. However, I don't see the Chinese coming up with any revolutionary inventions either, except for 16 hour working days lol.

I think that as long as the US is the dominant military power - having the global monopoly on the use of force = master of the world - that their currency will always be considered "strong" and attractive to investors.

However, this writing is from the viewpoint that there is no illuminati. In the likely scenario whereby captains of industry have gathered together in order to co-operate in a global business monopoly, the last thing that they want is their world (control over the populace and the workers through usury) being turned upside down due to massive dollar selling. So it's on this main reason -that the illuminati will only let the world burn once they lose control- that I see the US collapse being rather unlikely, despite the economic conditions.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Evilember
monopoly on use of force
Most countries have nukes these days. We cant force then to do shit. Our military is just a super expensive saber to rattle.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

The US is indebted by over 200 trillion dollars. You will often hear it is only 20 trillion, but that is not the big picture including military spending, social security, medical, etc. It has been about 7 years since the last crash (2008) and we are due for a new crash pretty much anytime now. The right factors are in place now for that to happen, the rejection of the US dollar as reserve currency, the election, and countries backing their currency by physical assets. I would not be surprised if the US, which reportedly has the largest gold reserves in the world, will consolidate its reserves in order to pay back debt. That's pretty much their only card left to play, and that alone won't solve anything. They have 200 trillion in debt and 11 trillion in gold, much of which is certificates and not necessarily physical holdings. No one really knows for sure exactly what they have, and maybe for a reason, maybe people would panic otherwise. The US is screwed.

Nojokur
Nojokur

Once a panic sets in, people will not have the opportunity to buy gold at all, because no one will have any. The price will skyrocket as supplies dry up. There is only so much of it in circulation. The entire gold supply in the world right now can fit under the Eifel Tower (about 67 cubic meters). The supply of gold is limited, which is what gives it value - unlike US dollars. The US dollar used to be backed by gold, although this was before millennials were even born. It's amazing the important shit that they don't teach in schools.

MPmaster
MPmaster

You're right that they won't let the US dollar fall, so long as they can control it. You're right that they use more than QE, raising rates, but also hedge their position by political acts in other countries, as the US is a base currency for trade. However, the one thing holding up the value of the US dollar can be summed up in one word: Confidence. And people are very confident about the US dollar when they are uneducated about it, such as the vast majority of American public. Come this October, when China breaks into the reserve currency SDR basket, it will be one more act against this confidence. And the stock market collapse many are predicting to happen very soon will be another drop in confidence, surely to be met with a response. What I'm saying is that all the tools in the world won't be worth shit, even from powerful illuminati motherfuckers when people start calling the bluff, when they are smart enough to know the difference, after a critical event. And it will happen, because of the broken fundamentals. It's a matter of time.

farquit
farquit

@MPmaster

Broken global fundamentals, we can agree on. A rich man does not buy 100 times more TVs than the poor man.

Thank you very much for the time you have put into these posts, they have all been very informative and logical.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@TalkBomber
investing in a constantly depreciating asset
For short periods of economic instability maybe

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Hilarious:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ndshbH3qZ6Y

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Gigastrength

lmao "there's a coin shop right there you can sell it for a little profit".

muh no

fucking hell.... it's great not being a fucking normie.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Gigastrength

HAHAHA

"Naw man I gotta go to the office and work"

20 dollars

"No".

fuuuuwwuwuuwuuwaack

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Emberfire
@TalkBomber
How were they supposed to know it's real?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Emberfire
@RumChicken
The host Mark Dice told many of them that they could just walk into the coin shop to get it checked out. The precious metal clerks have special scales, magnets, serial numbers and nitric acid tests they use to determine the authenticity of the metal. The Canadian 1oz coins also have embedded microchips.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@CouchChiller
embedded microchips
This is the first I'm hearing of that. I know they have micro-engravings, but microchips? I'm skeptical...

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@ZeroReborn
The Canadian 1oz gold coins are much more pure than the older US buffalo gold bullion coins (91.67% pure, but today they are just as pure as Canadian). Canadian coins are 99.99% pure, on top of having the world's most advanced security features.

Source: http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-the-mint/bullion-dna-8900026#.V82YSOt6Wh8

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@New_Cliche
Sorry I mean to say visual code encryption (DNA technology), not a microchip, but code. The RCM website explains.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Dreamworx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLlt9OxvHDWsmbZtKQ4bEVj68Y49xfSdA3&v=4M6smCIe6e8&ebc=ANyPxKozT_pOsjBcwWcGIm3SiicjTImkxPv2oFWjLFpoOJ61AkYc0wagInzkoSjh2kDkBzIBIpGwS9Ta0vEL0nrWEnI_H5JD3g

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@New_Cliche
microchip so that when the government outlaws private ownership they can find your gold easier a la WW2 America.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@TalkBomber
Yes, but like with all investments, diversify. Traditionally, 10% of your portfolio should be in physically held metals. More if you anticipate a fall in the market, less if you anticipate market growth, but 10% is a good "set it and forget it" point.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Garbage Can Lid
Just wanted to say that I appreciated your posts, thanks bro.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@GoogleCat
My pleasure, glad you appreciate the posts. I highly recommend reading The New Case for Gold if you want more detail and better insight with historical references. It's an excellent book.

And if you ever come across some stranger offering you a gold coin that you can get verified and buy for $20 - you know what to do! If only everyone did. They only will when it's too late.

viagrandad
viagrandad

the lolbertarian itt who thinks the US is fucked because they have a fiat currency and not because their currency is being abandoned by the rest of the world that doesn't want to deal with whiny americunts throwing hissy fits and threatening everyone with their army if you don't buy their absolute shit-tier products

Bidwell
Bidwell

@MPmaster
However, the one thing holding up the value of the US dollar can be summed up in one word: Confidence. And people are very confident about the US dollar when they are uneducated about it, such as the vast majority of American public.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHA
you fucking faggot, what confidence? The only reason why your shit country hasn't defaulted yet is because you have nukes, you fucking idiot. It's not about confidence, it's about military power. Holy shit americunts are really this delusional

Methshot
Methshot

@Bidwell
I'm not American, I'm Canadian. And as a Canadian, whose government has sold all its gold reserves, and has a shit military, and whose economy is even more tied to the US, I'd suggest our vulnerabilities to the topics I mentioned should have been more obvious. The problem with war is that there are no winners. It used to be where the US had The Nuke and few other countries did, that they had an advantage. Those days are over. Using all your military might to nuke a country, only to have the same fate returned, is a lost cause. And frankly, no amount of war will ease America's FIAT problem.

eGremlin
eGremlin

Does anyone have an exact date in October when the Chinese enter the world reserve?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Dreamworx
you didn't buy when it was 1310 gld 18.9 slv ? well do it now, DO IT

likme
likme

@Stark_Naked
tfw I bought silver at $13-$15/ozt

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Bidwell
The only reason why your shit country hasn't defaulted yet is because you have nukes

biz never stops to amaze me, sometimes the comment levels goes well below kindergarten

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

What about $URRE$

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Methshot
the problem with your complaints is that the dollar has worked just fine since we effectively took it off the gold standard almost 100 years ago. And there's no indication it's going to stop working any time soon.

When you say it's going to suddenly collapse after 100 years of not collapsing and you have no particular reasons why, you just look a bit loony. Like a goldbug or some other breed of paranoid republican.

idontknow
idontknow

@TalkBomber

As someone who owns 20+ oz in physical gold, I think that buying at around ~$1300/oz is a smart move as we are only going to see gold and silver going higher as the US dollar drops.

I am also a currency trader who is shorting the dollar, as it has already had such as long bull run and can't go much higher IMO. When that happens, gold will go higher.

But to be honest, physical metals arent that good as investments as you will need to pay a premium to buy it, and also when you sell it. You won't make a profit unless it goes a lot higher. I also hold cryptos, stocks, and fiat currency. I mostly see gold as a long term physical asset that I plan to pass on to my future generations.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

My body is ready

takes2long
takes2long

@Bidwell
paranoid republican
The GOP doesn't advocate the gold standard, you buzzword-spouting faggot.

idontknow
idontknow

@takes2long
nope. They also don't advocate buying timeshares, playing golf, wearing dentures, or joining the AARP. All of those things are heavily advertised on media consumed by Republicans though. As is gold.

you may draw your own conclusions.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@idontknow
It's like me associating black dildoes, unmerited self righteousness, and useless degrees in lesbian basket weaving with the democratic party.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@kizzmybutt
none of which are actively marketed on Democrats' preferred media.

I think you're just hurt because you're a republican and a bit stupid. It's fine, most republicans are.

but stupid people often have trouble with money. Buying gold and crying about fiat isn't going to fix that.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Gigastrength
le repooblicans are stupid and ebil
ayy lmao. take your political tribalism back to the sociology department, fagit. maybe they'll pat you on the back for parroting Jon Stewart.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@SniperGod
they aren't evil.
just stupid.
and paranoid.
which is why people that sell gold market aggressively to them.

this board is about business, not politics. If you're too stupid to see past your own foibles when it comes to money you're never going to amount to anything in business.

TechHater
TechHater

Someone uploaded this pic in another Veeky Forums thread. It shows the resilience of fed policy throughout many crashes, mostly in 7 or so year intervals, as it has always rebounded. But to think it will always do so with magic wands and fairy dust is delusional. The fed's currency manipulation tools are very limited and one day, just like a car running out of gas, it's going to stop. Why are things different today? Well, the US has over 200 TRILLION dollars in debt, and in the past confidence has been maintained throughout crashes. It's not too much of a stretch to think that one day, something will cause that confidence to fall. I'm not saying I know exactly when it will happen. It could be at the end of this year, or after my lifetime. But the fundamentals tell me it will happen, absolutely, and people should be prepared with whatever insurance they can get against this catastrophic event that will happen, absolutely.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@StonedTime
*this post brought to you from the basement of a middle-class, white single mother

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@CodeBuns
insults
nice rebuttal.
why do YOU think they market gold so heavily to conservatives and not liberals then?

It can't be personal wealth, the two groups are essentially equal.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@New_Cliche
rebut this!
*unzips cock*

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@TalkBomber
T H I S

King_Martha
King_Martha

@New_Cliche
your whole argument is "gold is marketed to a certain demographic therefore gold is worthless"

your logic sucks and you suck.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@King_Martha
no, my argument is gold is marketed to the stupid and the elderly, and you have to be stupid or elderly to fall for that marketing.

gold is fine as a hedge against inflation but you'd have to be a bit daft to think it's going to replace the dollar when the US collapses. For one thing there's not enough of it in existence to use as a currency. For another, most of it is in government vaults. And while you could counter the scarcity by artificially inflating the value, that makes it just another fiat currency. You might as well buy wampum or little black rocks, they'd work exactly the same.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@TalkBomber
no.

its at an all time high since the kikes put their money into it after brexit.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Firespawn

hahahahaha

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@happy_sad

which currency do you reckon might replace the dollar in the event of no confidence?

What kind of event would it take for you personally to stop having confidence in your shart in mart currency?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@GoogleCat
if it's a local collapse Americans will probably be using pesos or canadough.

Personally I don't worry about that scenario, I'd be one of the first ones lined up against the wall and shot in the event of massive government collapse. I expect the currency of the day would be lead.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Fuzzy_Logic

lmao. Good points. When the state can no longer ensure safety - is a big red flag for the dollar to take shit.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Stupidasole
We're pretty well armed here, and it's much cheaper to shoot someone than pay them gold.

it might happen in the next century. Our bills are backed by oil and that's changing quickly. We don't produce much except intellectual property which we let all kinds of Asians steal.

but when things get that bad having gold isn't going to help. Food, water, fuel and guns might, but even those can be taken. And if a body trusts his neighbor to trade with instead of killing him, he might as well trade for something that sustains life. You can't eat gold.

Evilember
Evilember

@ZeroReborn

jesus fucking shit that premium. just end yourself famalam

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@happy_sad
The argument "there's not enough of gold in existence to work as a currency in the event of a dollar collapse" is faulty. Basically what happens, is that the finite amount becomes worth more and not less, therefore, smaller amounts get traded. Just like when you run out of dollar bills, you go looking for change. It doesn't mean that it stops getting traded altogether. In fact, the very fact that there is a limited amount of gold in circulation and on the planet is what gives it value, accountability, and confidence. It's not produced from Yellen's fairy wand. Hard commodities that are inherent, limited or finite will do quite well when people get over the Fed / Yellen the Mathemagician.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@TalkBomber
gold is universally used in all electronics. today technoligies are advancing rapidly. i'd say yes, but i won't invest it in because idk

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Lord_Tryzalot
not expecting a rise during the american elections
loss?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Deadlyinx
as I've already pointed out itt,
the two problems with that are:
1. the amount of gold being traded in most transactions would be microscopic, which is a problem.

2. you've artificially inflated the value by demanding its use as currency, creating a fiat currency. And if you're going to do that anyways, you might as well use paper because there's lots of it and we can always make more.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Deadlyinx
Ultimately all you and other gold bugs are doing is applying money illusion to a commodity.

gold has no inherent value. To a starving man it's worthless. To a person that needs water or medical attention it's worthless.

it only has value if other people think it does, and those people are very likely to starve to death or die of dehydration in a catastrophe, so that idea will quickly pass.

consider the value of amethyst, horses, pocket watches, or pogs. These are all commodities that in the past were worth a great deal but in time became relatively worthless. In changing fortunes gold will suffer the same fate because its value is tied to style rather than substance. It's not necessary to life, nobody needs it. In economies of luxury it has value, but in economies of necessity it's worthless. When the dollar collapses we won't be buying luxuries.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Illusionz
the kicker being that we no longer care about amethyst, or horses, or pocket watches, pogs, or even tulips or aluminum.

But here we are, after all these millennia, still talking about gold.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@BlogWobbles
There's no reason that even a tiny amount of gold couldn't simply be contained in a larger capsule type packaging along with assay information with laser engraving and the like. Or even if we have numerous reliable gold banks that issue gold backed bank notes (like it used to be for such a long time), so we can easily denominate it into useful trading values. But even if this weren't an option (which it is), there is always silver. And when that's not cheap enough, there is copper, zinc, and so forth. What makes gold attractive in particular over other metals is that it is fairly rare, distributed fairly evenly across the world, and represents wealth as it is expensive to produce. And it can be "cashed" or exchanged pretty much anywhere in the world. That doesn't mean there aren't other commodities that can do that as well, although gold has the right set of characteristics for use as money. And it's been used since ancient times for monetary exchange.

Further, I suggest you review the definition of what FIAT currency is, and understand that the use of precious metals as currency can never be classified as FIAT. Currency and FIAT currency are two different things.

"Fiat money is currency that a government has declared to be legal tender, but it is not backed by a physical commodity. The value of fiat money is derived from the relationship between supply (such as a printer that can print any quantity of notes at any denomination) and demand rather than the value of the material that the money is made of."

For example, if the government decided to put serial numbers on Monopoly money, or even dog shit, and start issuing this to the public, they could do that. In fact it would have no less value than the money people are used to looking at, so long as people had faith in it. And there's no shortage of faith among those who ignore economic fundamentals and 'go with the flow'. Even when we're over 200 trillion in the hole. More dominos, more risk.

5mileys
5mileys

This thread is retarded. For fuck's sake there's no point holding prrcious metals, which are hard to transact when you can trade your soon to be worthless USD for Euro or Yuan or a safe currency on a forex.

No, op. Gold is not a smart investment.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@SomethingNew
use of precious metals as currency can never be classified as FIAT
yes, that's the money illusion.
gold isn't inherently precious. No metal is. Rarity alone doesn't make a thing precious. In the case of gold, usefulness doesn't make it precious either.

it is precious because you and others believe it is.

just like any other fiat currency.

@haveahappyday
here we are, after all these millennia, still talking about gold
it's a tradition.

Emberfire
Emberfire

also
@haveahappyday
aluminum.

nice one. I didn't add it to the list because I didn't think anyone else would be familiar with the fact that aluminum used to be a precious metal.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@5mileys
Paper USD used to be backed by gold, and traded on the exchanges just the same. The stock market is naturally inflationary on the basis of QE, interest rates and currency manipulation in general. It's gone up so many times and recovered against dozens of crashes, all by the power of devaluation and fairy dust. But to think the dollar will hold value forever when it's only inflating up in one direction because of broken fundamentals... Madness. It simply cannot. Yes, it can for a very long time, but definitely not forever. The dollar will crash someday, and that's what gold bugs are saying. It doesn't mean the average Joe should be drastic and abandon FIAT currency altogether today, when the world is currently operating on it. Of course we live in the real world. But at least hold a certain percentage of your income in precious metals, 10% is widely regarded as a safe insurance to protect your principal wealth, in case shit hits the fan in your lifetime. Study the fundamentals hard enough, I find it hard to believe an educated person can find the facts not even a little bit disconcerting. Even if it doesn't actually protect you from a dollar collapse in your lifetime, it will hedge against inflation and you can probably convert some at a nice profit to FIAT currency in the future if you chose to. And you could do that tax-free, traded straight for cash in your hand, so long as the IRS isn't getting in your way (there will always be ways around taxes with gold anyway).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7LOZhaxTw0I

Nojokur
Nojokur

@CouchChiller
My point was why buy gold when you can just trade your currency for another currency directly on a liquid market. Just hold some money in Yuan or Euro and you'll be fine.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Nojokur
There's nothing wrong with trading yuan, euro, or Monopoly money. Even when the lot of global trade is based on US Dollars, or less so nowadays with the SDR (Special Drawing Rights basket currency). But what do you think will happen to the US economy if the Fed were to decide to just print off the 200 trillion debt it has, in order to pay it off? And bail out big banks every time they do something they shouldn't even be able to do in the first place. Is it safe to just continue with debt forever, and ever, and ever.. when we're past the point of no return? Is it even possible? No it isn't... and that's a problem that can be solved by relying on a store of wealth that is physical, tangible, accountable, trustworthy since ancient times, and all the right characteristics that we should be seeking out of money.

5mileys
5mileys

@Nojokur
The word liquid is very true when it comes to FIAT currency. Just like a million bucks in the 90's has today lost half its value. Liquid, like down the drain liquid.

OK, so you may argue what about the interest you see in your chequing or savings account. The more you keep it, the more the numbers go up, right? Yes. But the purchasing power goes down at a higher rate than the interest paid, so it's all smoke and mirrors. An educated person would not put their faith in bullshit liquidity.

If you want to make money from money, you simply have to put it to work, which requires work. That's just business.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@King_Martha
the 200 trillion debt it has
and really that's the heart of the problem when looking to goldbugs for financial advice.

you're not playing with a full deck,
so your arguments, while internally consistent, are meaningless since they rely on premise that is false.

using false information for investment purposes is less useful.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@lostmypassword
The full deck is always laid on the foundation, or on the fundamentals. It's not false premise, it's macro economics. When the fundamentals get broken, things break, sooner or later, even if we're up on a metaphorical ladder trying to balance the top piece of FIAT Jenga. Yes there are "controls" in FIAT currency, just as magic always needs mana to cast a spell. What you may not realise, is that the situation is now limited to very few tools to control it, which people are starting to notice, and the US dollar is being abandoned because people are starting to lose faith in it - other powerful nations in particular (China, Russia with the SDR). I'm not saying that I know for certain that this is going to cause something greater anytime soon, but I will say it is not contributing to faith in the USD, and following that path will lead to less and less confidence as time goes on. These are signs worth noting. Maybe people aren't fazed simply because it hasn't happened yet, they think it can't happen. But a scenario that makes the general public lose confidence in the FIAT USD is unfolding, bit by bit, because of the fundamentals, because of the full deck, at the macro scale.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@TurtleCat
In short you appear to believe that the US has run up ten times as much debt as it claims, and that is why the dollar will utterly collapse soon.

there's no reason I know of why anyone should believe you or pay any attention to anything you say.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@ZeroReborn
I didn't say the US dollar was going to collapse soon. I did say that it is possible, because in fundamental truth it absolutely can. I'm not the one with the crystal ball - I have my eyes on the facts. If you think numbers matter and purchasing power doesn't, you'd be a FIAT idiot. Hard currency with physical backing is given the value that people believe in it. FIAT currency without physical backing is given the value that people believe in. But one is very different from the other.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Stupidasole
I have my eyes on the facts
you say the US has $200 trillion in debt.
this is you rejecting facts.

Lunatick
Lunatick

The US has over 200 trillion in unfunded liabilities. I believe that was from 2014/2015, today it is several trillion more, more recent articles quote it at over 230 trillion today. Google it.

http://dailyreckoning.com/205-trillion-in-unfunded-liabilities/

http://www.goldcore.com/us/gold-blog/global-debt-now-200-trillion/

This is not made up.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Lunatick
unfunded liabilities aren't debts, nor do they mean the funds can't be found to pay them.

you fell for the conservative meme.
you cut entitlements taxes then complain that the entitlements are now debts and say the dollar is no good.

this is bullshit.
the same people that cut social security can fix it. they won't because they're too busy selling gold to people that are afraid their ssi will be cut. Which it has. by the bastards selling them gold.

Inmate
Inmate

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/05/13/ben-carsons-claim-that-the-u-s-owes-211-trillion-beyond-the-reported-federal-debt/

http://mercatus.org/sites/default/files/debt-in-perspective-analysis.pdf

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

As you say, in another way: yes, of course FIAT economists and politicians will make every effort to fund these liabilities, the whole 200+ trillion of it. They will find a way. Because we know what happens if that doesn't pull through. Either way, it is a calculated figure with enormous economic implications, which make me feel uneasy. Best to get an insurance policy.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Inmate
citing goldbug propaganda to support goldbug propaganda is circular.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Emberfire
Either it's true or it's not, that's up to you to decide, user. This is Veeky Forums. Do your own due diligence. If you care enough, you'll see the same unfunded liability information on sites like Forbes and CNN as well - or probably whatever media outlet you end up going to, save a few. It's widely cited.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Flameblow
it's not that it's not true, it's just true from certain points of view.

the fed can pay that easily by printing more money, but that causes inflation. Unless we can grow our population and product, but nobody is reproducing. We could fix that by bringing in more immigrants and getting them paying into ssi and retirement accounts. But conservatives would rather give their ssi to the government than have brown people living near them.

we could default. Conservatives have repeatedly threaten to default on debt to other nations, I don't see why they'd have a problem defaulting on debt to their constituents. In fact that's what they seem to be aiming for- pocketing the retirement accounts of ever American alive.

but ultimately it's going to be a combination of these things. We'll raise ssi taxes, we'll raise the retirement age, we'll cut retirement benefits for public employees, we'll default on some obligations, we'll hire the cheapest contractor to provide health care and insurance, we'll grant amnesty to brown people in the country illegally, and we'll keep on letting inflation chip away at retirement benefits. In time we will probably raise taxes on the wealthy.

none of which affects the fundamentals of the country significantly. We'll still spend far more money on killing muslims than we will on saving americans. Because that's what DoD contractors want and they hold the pursestrings. Conservatives will continue to foment civil war because it appeals to folks like yourself that hate the government. They will continue to fuck you once they get elected because they don't actually want smaller government or a weaker dollar. They have nothing to gain by revolution, but much to gain by appealing to the frustration of average people. And /pol/ will continue to blame the joos or whatever group is popular for that sort of thing, calmly ignoring the people actually fucking them.

buy guns, buy gold, whatever. Neither will save you if you're right.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

YES

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@eGremlin
I aint reading all that shit, nigger.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

Sure, if you understand the vehicle, trade it. I don't (beyond the concept), so I don't touch it.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@BunnyJinx
I aint asking you to.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@idontknow
muchos respectos anonos, honestly i don't mind paying 110% spot price for gold, because i know the merchant i buy from wants to make a living and he also paid for the shipping, and as i see the history of gold, it is unpredictable and may double in price in short notice, plus it's soo bretty its like jerking off your eyes

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