Veeky Forums Tell me why the estate tax should not be raised to 75% or higher

happy_sad
happy_sad

Veeky Forums Tell me why the estate tax should not be raised to 75% or higher

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3IQC3HCg-w
http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/the-10-most-outrageous-things-pollies-have-spent-our-money-on/news-story/254c2cb0858b56fb89ed65f547bee3f0
Playboyize
Playboyize

Suck my small fat brown uncircumcised dick you piece of filth

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Playboyize
excellent rebuttal

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@happy_sad
I think it ought to be. Gotta stop dynasties.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@happy_sad
Should be taxed at 50% plus a 4 year span where the estate is rented out to homeless people.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@happy_sad
Because the super rich dodge those taxes and you're just fucking over the middle and lower class.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

I can't believe that on a forum full of people who want to get rich, there are people who WANT the government to be able to tax the same dollar earned multiple times. Crazy unreal. End as usual, it went affect the billionaires, it'll affect guys who manage to leave a few million behind.

Good lord

Emberburn
Emberburn

The government gets half while you're alive, the other half after you die.

What a bunch of kooks you are

Supergrass
Supergrass

@cum2soon
middle class doesnt pay estate tax you dipshit

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Sharpcharm
i cant believe on a board which contains 0 billionaires that there are people in favor of the redistribution of wealth
wow shocking turn of events

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Supergrass
then no one does

iluvmen
iluvmen

@King_Martha
i agree there are too many exemptions. trusts should count as assets

TreeEater
TreeEater

@iluvmen

Your ID is Jew

I KNEW IT

FUCKING JEWS MAN

Emberfire
Emberfire

@happy_sad
Tell me why it should be.. without sounding like a crybaby about how the world is unfair

WebTool
WebTool

@Emberfire
It would help to redistribute wealth instead of handing it to people who didnt earn it

FastChef
FastChef

@WebTool

Why must wealth be earned? Why must wealth be held by those who earn it? Why must wealth be redistributed? Who does that help?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Emberfire
Tax is applied based on how much the government can take from you without a large impact to your life. When you are dead, you can't spend the money and thus it needs to be redistributed for optimal velocity of money. You can be taxed at a 100% rate because as a rotting corpse you have 0 needs.

muh kids
If you are rich, you should be able to teach your kids how to generate money so they can create their own legacy. And you should be able to afford life insurance for your family in case you die suddenly. Rich kids riding off of the legacy of their parents is really the saddest thing. So much potential wasted.

Honestly, there is no excuse for the government not to seize all of your remaining assets after you die.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@WebTool
It would help to redistribute wealth

are you saying it should be redistributed to people who didn't earn it?

Illusionz
Illusionz

@FastChef
Depends on what you define "wealth" as. Some people would define wealth as owning capital.

Those people would be wrong. In today's society "wealth" is the ability to generate economic growth. You can be pretend rich and blow all your cash on hookers and blow but you are just a poor little man with a bunch of money.

You don't need to have a lot of capital to generate wealth. Access to capital is a service offered by banks and investors who are more than happy to lend if you are a wealth generator. There's no reason a dead person or their useless children need access to all that capital who might not spend or reinvest it efficiently. If they are smart and good at business they can access it through other methods.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@PurpleCharger
Lol.. sounds like a cry baby attitude
@WebTool
so either way you are handing it over to people that didn't earn it

I want both of you to go ahead and shut off your computers and go out and get a fucking job and stop crying about other people being better off than you

Supergrass
Supergrass

@happy_sad
It shouldn't because it kills the incentive to make it in the first place. The reason people build wealth is first for themselves, and second for people they care about. If I knew all my wealth was going to go to a bunch of asshole politicians, I'd set fire to it immediately before I off myself.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@FastChef
You know dam well who it helps dont play coy with me you fucking edgelord

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@BunnyJinx
lol are you fucking kidding me? i dont think you understand how taxes work. the irs doesnt take money from the rich then toss it in the air for people to grab. its invested in school and civic improvements which in turn create a higher standard of living for everyone

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Supergrass
when im dead some of my wealth will be seized
guess ill just stay poor forever
ya i bet thats a lot of peoples train of though

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Spazyfool
Great argument. Hope it works in the political theater because we are coming for you nigga.
@Supergrass
Why do rich people not care about the society that allowed them to become rich and powerful?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Raving_Cute
the irs doesnt take money from the rich then toss it in the air for people to grab
oh my sweet summer child

girlDog
girlDog

@Harmless_Venom
all government is waste
k

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Booteefool
Great argument.

you think that when the government taxes people they use that money in a righteous way? Or do you think they just give themselves and their co-workers a big bonus at the end of the year?

you should probably be looking for a job and worry about your own finances instead of worrying about other people's money

viagrandad
viagrandad

@happy_sad

My argument is for you to kys

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Evil_kitten
You've described the private sector to a T.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@girlDog
strawman

@happy_sad
private sector = government spending
great contribution

takes2long
takes2long

@haveahappyday
You can go ahead and describe to me how public sector union workers get bonuses.

Inmate
Inmate

@Booteefool
Why do rich people not care about the society that allowed them to become rich and powerful?
Many rich people have set up charitable trusts to help society after they pass. The difference between that and what your suggesting is one if voluntary and the other is forced.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@takes2long
You can go ahead and explain to me why your lazy entitled ass feels as if anyone owes you anything without sounding like a cry baby

Playboyize
Playboyize

@hairygrape
Nice meltdown

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@happy_sad

Why shouldn't it be taxed 100%?

Why shouldn't you be taxed 100% throughtout your career or lifetime and have money be given to those who need it?

Because that's probably not how incentives work for productivity.

Methshot
Methshot

@Playboyize
Nice explaining... troll harder faggot you suck at trolling just like you suck at life.. 30 year old man child detected

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Methshot
Already gave an economics-based answer, you just wanna spout ad-homs because >muh money

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@TreeEater
Still sounding like a cry baby. Lol

Holy shit get out of your parents basement would you?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@happy_sad
Same reasons income tax (or any tax) shouldn't be 75%.

When they prove they can do a good job of managing the money they get, then I have no problem giving more.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Deadlyinx
estate taxes are after youre dead idiot

TechHater
TechHater

@TurtleCat
be dead
government hyenas pic your bones clean
It's the circle of life.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Inmate
I can understand that but when you have all these billionaires creating organizations to serve a specific niche, at some point wouldn't it be more effective to pool that all together into a common organization, run by the people for the people?

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Inmate
ya the waltons set up a charity and gave 1% of their dads wealth to it! thats exactly the same as a 75% estate tax!!

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@AwesomeTucker
Let me guess. One of those people in the common organization is going to be you.

Illusionz
Illusionz

this kills the motivation

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@AwesomeTucker
it be more effective to pool that all together into a common organization, run by the people for the people

Cause clearly the government is known for both its efficiency and doing things "for the people"

You seriously need to fuck off back to r/bernie

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@AwesomeTucker
You should probably just focus on making your own money buddy.

Not sure why you think giving money to poor people will do anything.. they are poor for a reason..

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Illusionz
he can't spend all his money in his lifetime

Then you don't need it my nigga

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Spazyfool
Do you have an example of an organization that can do government better than the government can?

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Nude_Bikergirl

Can you give a single example where the government does anything better than private business?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@New_Cliche
ya the waltons set up a charity and gave 1%
And the rest went into wealth generating activities that are taxed. At this point the 99% has been taxed several time over.

5mileys
5mileys

@Crazy_Nice
Transportation infrastructure, healthcare, water and sewage, emergency services and public safety, national defense, public education, environmental protection

Do you need more examples?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Illusionz
dumbest argument ive ever heard

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Dreamworx
le poor people are lazy
got an econ major with us today i see

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@5mileys
infrastructure, healthcare, water and sewage, emergency services, national defense
Most of these are in some way contracted out to private companies in some way shape, or form.
public safety, public education, environmental protection
It is very questionable if the government is effective ate these.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Harmless_Venom
wealth generating activities

lol right...

Methshot
Methshot

@Harmless_Venom
the waltons money is taxed several times over
this is false and you know it

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@5mileys
healthcare
public education

The rest are likely bullshit as well but I know from first hand experience that those two are shit.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Deadlyinx
@Methshot
I guess your right. The waltons didn't pay any taxes on property they bought. They did not pay any taxes on capital gains or dividends. They did not pay any estate taxes when the heirs died.
I guess the stacked all the money in a storage container and made a thrown out of it.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Sharpcharm
ya all those private schools in harlem and appalachia are really doing a great job

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Emberfire
made a thrown out of it.
basically

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Emberfire
The waltons didn't pay any payroll taxes for the people they hired or themselves.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Poker_Star
The workers might be provided by the private sector, but the public sector tells them exactly what needs to happen and in many cases sectors are highly regulated.

And at the end of the day, if subcontractors fail the government is on the hook for not being able to provide the service.

If the government went away these services would turn to shit real quick because for the most part, they are monopolistic.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

ITT
A bunch of commie 12 year olds who want to rely on handouts and have their family wealth taxed so it can go towards NEETS and art projects.
I would rather see every single one of you die then get your hands on what my family worked for.

WEW lad. Im glad i live in a country where they dont tax inheritance.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@happy_sad
Kys, leftypol.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Emberfire
if you truly believe that the walton family is paying their fair share of taxes i might as well be talking to a wall

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@StonedTime
If the government went away these services would turn to shit real quick because for the most part, they are monopolistic.
They are already shit with the government running them.
The government loses billions of dollars every year to fraud, waste, and abuse. It is clear the government is shit at handling money.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@5mileys
Transportation infrastructure, healthcare, water and sewage, emergency services and public safety, national defense, public education, environmental protection
government does these things better

You're an idiot.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Stark_Naked
government sucks lets all just fend for ourselves!!
ok man great argument

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Fuzzy_Logic
fair share
This meme needs to die. It is way to subjective. I can tell you one family member has paid more in taxes than anyone here will ever make in their life.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@BinaryMan
I would rather see every single one of you die then get your hands on what my family worked for.

This desu. Fuck liberals.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Fuzzy_Logic
if you truly believe that the walton family is paying their fair share of taxes i might as well be talking to a wall
The government you're so willing to give other people's money so they can redistribute it to your NEET ass set those tax rates and enact the laws and policies which allow them to pay minimal tax.

You can't even make a post without demolishing your own argument.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Stark_Naked
Not only does the same thing happen in private organizations, they aren't auditable to the same degree as public organizations so you will never see it fixed, and on top of all that any profit they generate is waste.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Booteefool
/thread

girlDog
girlDog

@5mileys
All soon to be privatised to help pay off the ever increasing gov debts because the gov are fucking incompetent of running an economy.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

ITT: Trust fund kids who have never earned a dime in their lives try to justify why they deserve mommy and daddy's money.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Need_TLC

You're the edgelord poor son of a bitch niggerlit here nigga.

My parents are millionaires based on their net worth and they are leaving everything to me and my sister and we will get over a million in life insurance nigger

why the fuck should kids in africa receive my millions?

MY SPERM IS TIED TO THOSE MILLIONS, MY DNA!

idontknow
idontknow

@haveahappyday

i earned $11.25, thats like, 113 dimes u edge lord

in 1 hour

at work

at fucking BEST BUY

I DESERVE THE MONEY, MORE THAN YOU, SAD PIECE OF SHIT

SUCK MY DICK U CUNT

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Crazy_Nice
really? they paid a higher percentage than i will in my life? i disagree with you i pay near 40%

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@haveahappyday
Hey when you parents die give me their money because you don't deserve it.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@kizzmybutt
OK, I don't need their money.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@lostmypassword
they paid more
HAHA BUT THEY DIDNT PAY MORE THAN 40%

u r 1 dense motherfucker, abandon this stupid shit and let OP talk to himself

Methnerd
Methnerd

@cum2soon
a million dollars doesnt even qualify for the estate tax. maybe take some of that money and get an education

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Sir_Gallonhead
Not only does the same thing happen in private organizations
If it happened to the same degree as it does in the government, the business would fail immediately. Businesses can't just issue treasury notes and get more money when their business fails.
they aren't auditable to the same degree as public organizations
Private organizations are audited all the time. They are audited when they want loans, issue securities, and when they are sold.
so you will never see it fixed
Government auditors issue reports on unimplemented recommendations where government organizations had major deficiencies in internal control and they never corrected them.
on top of all that any profit they generate is waste
Profit gets churned back into the economy. It isn't wasted.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Deadlyinx
why should someone richer than me pay a smaller percent? that is the most backwards logic ive ever heard

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Gigastrength
Its not about needing it friend.
Your family earned it therefore it should be passed on to their immediate family in full whether you feel you deserve, do/don't want it. Then you can donate it to me after. At least its your choice and not some vulture who wants to fund transgender surgeries because its progressive.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Carnalpleasure
Businesses can't just issue treasury notes and get more money when their business fails.
Ya if citigroup or bank of america started to fail theres no way... o wait

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@TalkBomber
Yeah, and the shareholders paid the price. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Carnalpleasure
You can't audit broken business processes or figure out how much x person is paid in the private sector. That's part of the secret sauce that can't be disclosed. The public sector is required to issue documents (with national security exceptions) or they can be sued. There isn't a freedom of information act for the private sector.

A business can be inefficient for long periods of time, if their competitors price fix or do other shady deals to protect their profits they can stay afloat for a long time.

Profit gets churned back into the economy. It isn't wasted.

So, government waste isn't waste because it gets spend and goes back into the economy.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@LuckyDusty
your point?

Supergrass
Supergrass

@RumChicken
You can't audit broken business processes
That's what auditors do.
figure out how much x person is paid in the private sector
Just audit payroll. If you mean can you as a private citizen then no, but it doesn't matter anyway.
A business can be inefficient for long periods of time, if their competitors price fix or do other shady deals to protect their profits they can stay afloat for a long time.
The government can go even longer for reasons previously stated.
@BinaryMan
your point?
Someone has to pay tangible money instead of issuing treasuries or printing more money.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Flameblow
Family wealth doesn't have to be in cold hard cash, that's a very short-sighted way to see it. The wealth that your family should provide you with is through life lessons, ultimately raising you to be a successful person and a wealth creator so you can create your own legacy, not live off of the entrails of theirs.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

If unearned wealth is so evil, why create more unearned wealth recipients by redistributing estates?

Check mate commies

King_Martha
King_Martha

@TalkBomber
but there's no guarantee their kids can manage it

girlDog
girlDog

@Supergrass
stock market
tangible money
o i am laffin. dude you literally just said private sector cant be bailed out like the government when that literally just happened. are you retarded?
@Stark_Naked
becase thats not how taxes work. the money would be spent on civil improvements like education and infrastructure not handed out to people in gold bullion

iluvmen
iluvmen

@girlDog
private sector cant be bailed out like the government
That's government malfeasance not the private sector. Sorry to break it to you. Your god THE GOVERNMENT is pretty bad.
For some reason you seem to think money just magically appears in the stock market. It doesn't btw.

idontknow
idontknow

@Spazyfool
we have a problem, and instead of fixing it, we should ignore everything surrounding the problem and its causes and route everything through a different system
You seriously need to fuck off back to /ancap/.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Raving_Cute
its invested in school and civic improvements
if you haven't noticed, US is pretty much on par with the 3rd world in regards to infrastructure at this point: interstates crumbling, water supplies degrading to the point to where they're causing biological harm to citizens, and oil and gas drilling (which get massive tax breaks) is causing earthquakes that damage private home owners and real-estate investors.

I'm not convinced that the tax money is being redistributed fairly, so why add more privately owned funds from citizens to the pool of funds to be misappropriated?

Snarelure
Snarelure

@happy_sad

I really disdain anyone who is in favor of the estate tax, let alone 75%. Economic asymmetry is a reality of any society, even the communist states always seem to end up as a two party system.

Whenever I hear someone advocate wealth redistribution through progressive or estate taxes the first thing is think of is class. What social class is this person from? You're probably thinking "Well of course the rich are against wealth redistribution!"

What is the number one thing members of each class have in common with each other?

Is it total wealth?

Is it education?

Is it race?

No. It's temporal perspective.

We see it every day. Those of the lowest class live for the day. Buying lotto tickets and racking up consumer debt with no concept of delayed gratification. And no, it's not always out of necessity. There's a reason most lotto winners go broke.

Next we have the middle class. Building equity in their houses with 30 year mortgages, preparing their kids for colleges, and saving for retirement.

Then there's the upper class. While the middle is thinking on terms of years or decades they are thinking lifetimes. Concerned with their legacy and future generations, they create trusts and endowments. An honorable cause.

How about from a moral stand point? At the most fundamental level isn't that the purpose of any living organism? I.E. To spread their genes and do what they can to ensure survival of their progeny. Personally, I don't think so.

Ok, so morals aside, what are the practical implications? Wealth redistribution of that magnitude is a huge step in the direction of socialism which is not what America stands for.

Life's not fair, get over it.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Harmless_Venom
so it does? where do they do it and when? I want to grab some money

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Gigastrength
us on par with 3rd world
these are the bright minds against the estate tax

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Stark_Naked
Well said!

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Fried_Sushi
You missed the point again.
I am talking about cold cash and assets because you cant take shit with you when you die.
Rightfully it belongs to the family and not to government, not to some vulture neet.
You can still give it away but at least it was your choice.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@girlDog
the money would be spent on civil improvements like education and infrastructure.

Yes goy, thats what happens..thats how the world works

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Snarelure
EDIT:

"How about from a moral stand point? At the most fundamental level isn't that the purpose of any living organism? I.E. To spread their genes and do what they can to ensure survival of their progeny. Personally, I DO think so. "

TechHater
TechHater

@TurtleCat
lol just because you're paying top tax dollar for what you think are civil improvements, doesn't negate the fact that your money largely goes to politicians salary and the corporations backing them.

FastChef
FastChef

@RumChicken
inheritence is a form of income. why shouldnt it be taxed like every other form of income

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

ITT
gubment is bad
taxes are bad
its not bad to leech off your parents ok my moms basement is fine

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@happy_sad
CerzJaew
Jaew

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@TurtleCat
Depends on where you go in the country. Not everyone is a wealthy suburbanite.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@FastChef
it is being taxed.. when it was earned. How many times do you think is fair for money to be taxed?

If you buy a TV and pay taxes on it, and 2 years later you want to upgrade it, so you give it to your younger brother, should your brother have to pay taxes on it? This is basically what you're suggesting is appropriate

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@happy_sad
Veeky Forums is a communist board.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@RumChicken
You are the vulture NEET in this analogy. You think falling out of your mommy's vagina entitles you to everything she ever did.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Ignoramus
they taxed your father when it was earned. not you. Thats like saying you shouldnt have to pay income tax because your boss already paid taxes when he earned it. Thats fucking lunacy

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Fuzzy_Logic
Ya 3rd world countries are famed for their wealthy suburbs. Lol you guys are fucking trash. Do any of you have a real argument other than
gubment is bad dont pay the mean men!!

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Snarelure
it's un-American
not an argument
life's not fair
no it's not, that's why it's the duty of every human being to make it more fair
rich people make trusts and endowments
not all of them
I'd like to see credible numbers on how many actually create something other than a business, a child, or a loophole for the estate tax that actually outlives them and is useful

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Garbage Can Lid
3rd world countries do have wealthy suburbs. It is also where most of their corrupt politicians live.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Garbage Can Lid
Im starting to think you only came here to rile up support from your Marxist buds. Wrong board man.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Stark_Naked
you're right. instead of rebalancing our tax dollars that already pay (well above minimum wage) government employee salaries and insurance/health plans, let's take more money from middle class people (that they already earned fairly and paid taxes on it) who try to help their kids have a better financial life than they did.

So if one citizen's salary is already getting taxed 28% and you want to tax any inheritance of another 75%, what's the benefit? since 103% of money earned was paid for taxation??

THAT's fucking lunacy

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Boy_vs_Girl
Gates and buffet are doing a lot of philanthropy. I fully believe that should be tax deductible. But on the other hand you have people like the waltons hoarding their money. Theres no reason why they shouldnt have to pay a comparable rate
@happy_sad
Ya I didnt think you had any valid argument. Just call me a marxist and go the fuck home

5mileys
5mileys

@haveahappyday
middle class people do not pay an estate tax. what the fuck are you even talking about?

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Boy_vs_Girl
hat's why it's the duty of every human being to make it more fair
Why is it my duty. I didn't volunteer. If you want, you can take a vow of poverty and give your money to others to make it " more fair"
inb4 I want other peoples money.

takes2long
takes2long

@haveahappyday
So if one citizen's salary is already getting taxed 28% and you want to tax any inheritance of another 75%, what's the benefit? since 103% of money earned was paid for taxation??
Retard detected

w8t4u
w8t4u

@takes2long
This is the argument that really bothers me. People like you have no problem reaping all the benefits of living in a first world western society but when tax reform pops up
lol i dint choose to live i aint payin shit XD
Nobodys forcing you to stay here. But if you are you should chip in

Bidwell
Bidwell

@w8t4u
sorry this is meant for
@cum2soon

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@w8t4u
@Bidwell
No this is the hypocrisy of libtards. Their half-baked ideology is always fine when someone else is at risk. But when it comes to risking their and their families financial future, they are nowhere to be found.

Step up buttercup.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@cum2soon
that's why it's the duty of every human being to make it more fair
Why is it my duty.
It's your duty because you have the intellect and emotional maturity to understand that duty and carry it out. I'm not saying you need to give away your money to be fair, although that can be part of it. I'm saying in any way that it comes up, it is your duty to be as fair as you can manage. That is your duty because that is one of the only sources of respite your fellow man has from the rest of life being unfair.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@kizzmybutt
What are you talking about I do pay income taxes. Its literally the opposite of hypocrisy to ask the elite to do the same

SniperGod
SniperGod

@PackManBrainlure
It's your duty because you have the intellect and emotional maturity to understand that duty and carry it out.
I also have the intellect and emotional maturity to understand that I have the option to reject that duty with no repercussions. If you want to try and punish me for my decision the come at me bro.

That is your duty because that is one of the only sources of respite your fellow man has from the rest of life being unfair.
This is another example of a half-baked liberal ideal. Libtards seem to think everyone operates under some common moral code, but progressives destroyed common moral codes a long time ago. This country has slipped into a Brazillian type culture where it is every man for himself.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Burnblaze
Yeah, but you don't pay enough, you need to pay your "fair share". Because I have made an arbitrary determination that you haven't paid you "fair share" because reasons.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@BlogWobbles
the elite pay less than me how is that even remotely arbitrary for me to ask they pay more?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@StonedTime
Because how much more. "Fair Share" is not a policy and it is not an amount. How much do you want them to pay. Give me a specific number. Give me a specific policy change that is needed. You are just whining like a child that someone has more icecream than you do.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@w8t4u
benefits of Western Society
Which ones?
shit education
shit healthcare
shit infrastructure
shit environment
shit consumer regulations
shit family-value systems
shit quality of life

Now, if we were Denmark-tier I wouldn't mind paying more in taxes (even though our tax rates are pretty much the same but infrastructure is much better).

Literally, all of those "benefits" were actively negative-contributors to my success (meaning I was working against the wind uphill, instead of just uphill) and fueled my desire to become wealthy to escape that mess.

The only reason I'm still here is because my city (NYC) is the world-hub for my industry.

@Flameblow
They are. I'm on the boards of one school in Chicago (Westside), and two in Harlem and they're giving young blacks a chance at life by teaching discipline (notice: Gates and Trump were both rapscallions before attending military institutions) and providing father figures and hope.

@Boy_vs_Girl
duty

Ideals are only used to bend people to your will. They've never been objectively good, but let's be honest morals are subjective and shouldn't be used as a judgement of fairness.

No one has any duty, but those dictated by biology (eat, shit, sleep, procreate). All other artificial "duties" are imposed and interfere with free agency. Though some are necessary for the maintenance of this country's order and preservation of life, they are to be a minimum so to not infringe of the individual's will, but at the same time maintain that other individuals do not freely infringe on others' wills (as opposed to government-enforced duty).

@AwesomeTucker
This is incorrect. "Run by the people for the people" does not mean "absolute democracy." The founding fathers did not wish for a fully-fledged democracy, because it is at its core "mob-rule:" "Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule." - Nietzsche

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Boy_vs_Girl

un-american is not an argument
Sure it is. American citizens as an aggregate do not want a socialist or communist state.

no it's not, that's why it's the duty of every human being to make it more fair

Wow. So how many hours per week do you volunteer and what percentage of your income is donated to charity?

Also my back is killing me and I'm getting behind on chores. It's not fair! could you come over and mow my lawn?

not all of them
I'd like to see credible numbers on how many actually create something other than a business, a child, or a loophole for the estate tax that actually outlives them and is useful

Again, asymmetry. Tallying up how many "rich people" create charities, for example, would be useless. What matters is the net contribution, which obviously couldn't be quantified.

The point is many times(yes I know not always, again NET contribution of this group) rich people are rich because they get shit done. They descended from a long line of people who got shit done. They surround themselves with people who get shit done. Redistributing wealth to the poor so they can engage in consumerism(because that IS what does and will happen.) is not the answer.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Evil_kitten
Judging by the posters in this thread, having a government at all is communist.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@PackManBrainlure
respite from hardship and unfairness

It's true what they say about liberals (though it's become a buzzword at this point), they have daddy issues. It's feminine to try and shy away and avoid struggle, because struggle forges a boy into a man. It's bad for the society when fathers fail to pass on valuable lessons to their sons.

@viagrandad
Estate tax leans more towards authoritarianism (i.e communism) than it does towards the betterment and liberty of society.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@happy_sad
I believe Thomas Sowell tackles this:
Paraphrasing here
if one taxes estates at a high rate this would be a constraint on the liquidity thAt moves towards investment. This would have the effect of constraining a large market drive investment force to that of one of a government determined investment.

Ministry of investment. Worked for the Russians! Wait...

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

This: @Bidwell
To anyone making any assertions on economics topics, read Sowell's "Basic Economics" for a good primer (or Krugman if you have autistic tendencies and can stand dry topics).

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@viagrandad
Judging by the posters in this thread, having a government at all is communist.
No, it's a difference in thinking. Some just believe the government is the solution to everything. Others believe the individual can come up with his own solutions. Some people are collective. Some people are individualistic.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Bidwell
This is an argument against all government investment or spending.

WebTool
WebTool

@SniperGod
you think everyone operates under some common moral code
no, I think they *should* do that in some small ways (that mostly or entirely all boil down to this one single duty)
no one has morals so I don't have to
not how it works kid
also if people didn't have morals they wouldn't be rabble-rousing like you see all sides doing in this thread-- they may not all have your morals, but they have morals and they're damn sure gonna let everyone know about it while sitting at their computer eating Cheetos
@MPmaster
hello Ayn, are you still salty over what the Soviets did? (I'm not talking about government-enforced duty either, I'm talking about something everyone should take onto themselves of their own free will)

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@happy_sad
@StrangeWizard
@Supergrass
@Fried_Sushi
@iluvmen
@WebTool
@Need_TLC
@Raving_Cute
@Garbage Can Lid
@TurtleCat
@New_Cliche
@iluvmen
@hairygrape
@Methshot
@Flameblow
@Fuzzy_Logic
@Lunatick
@lostmypassword
@Methnerd
@Skullbone
@TalkBomber
@BinaryMan
@girlDog
@TurtleCat
@FastChef
@BunnyJinx
@Stark_Naked
@Garbage Can Lid
@SomethingNew
@5mileys
@w8t4u
@Bidwell
@Burnblaze
@StonedTime
I'm not a Commie, I just post a lot.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Evil_kitten
@Evil_kitten
Sure it is. American citizens as an aggregate do not want a socialist or communist state.
I'm going to need not just a citation, but a concrete definition of socialist and communist. (hint: there is no definition all of America agrees on)
@Evil_kitten
Wow. So how many hours per week do you volunteer and what percentage of your income is donated to charity?
That amount is none, because my family needs me for things, we don't have much money to go around, and I'm a lazy bastard. I know that one, maybe one-and-a-half of those are valid excuses. That doesn't mean I can't believe in the principle. I'm not trying to talk down to anyone, just laying out what I believe.
@Evil_kitten
Again, asymmetry. Tallying up how many "rich people" create charities, for example, would be useless. What matters is the net contribution, which obviously couldn't be quantified.
That's bullshit, you can count the dollars spent, the time spent, the value (preferably by amount of use) of the objects donated, and the number of people who feel their life was improved by a rich person's contributions or that the life of someone they know was improved. If it's true, it should be provable, and if it's provable, it should be quantifiable.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@SomethingNew
le no girls on the Internet
le feminine traits are bad
le epic trial by fire that creates a man
to give you more response than you deserve for a moment:
- I'm not saying people should never have to struggle
- I'm not saying that I shy away from struggle (if anything I wonder if I'm a masochist)
- I'm not saying avoiding struggle is better than tackling it
- I'm not saying there isn't value in overcoming things
what I'm saying is you should help people, it's that a simple
A Real Man™ doesn't selfishly refuse to help other people and then dishonestly justify it as a character-building exercise.

idontknow
idontknow

@WebTool
something everyone should take onto themselves of their own free will

That's not how freedom works. Let me regurgitate a similar phrase from your own:

Paying taxes is something everyone should take onto themselves of their own free will. (But if you don't we're gonna infringe on your pursuit of life, liberty, and property, i.e your free will if you don't voluntarily follow our will)

Even more similar is with religion (not religious, but went to a Catholic school): God gave you free will, but you're not allowed to use that free will however you like. If you use it in a way that he dislikes, you will be punished.

Moral imperative is different from forcing your viewpoint on others, don't forget this. Some might not agree that respite from hardship of your fellow man is moral imperative (see: the majority of blue collar/working-class).

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@idontknow
@idontknow
Moral imperative is different from forcing your viewpoint on others, don't forget this.
I think you're the one that forgot this, I'm not forcing my views on anyone. You also seem to have forgotten the meaning of the word "should" (it does not mean "must").

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@cum2soon
@Stupidasole
It's a more general belief of liberty and self-agency (leaning much more towards libertarianism than communism, or the mid-way point, socialism).

Although there was a point of federalist-dominance in American government, they were still very anti-authoritarian (which socialism leans towards).

if it's provable, it should be quantifiable
It's informal quantification. By paying any taxes at all on their megawealth already creates a net-positive, much more so than your regular Joe (or fifty). There's no reason for the megarich to pay huge taxes on the sole basis of "they used our infrastructure to become successful now they must pay it forward." They are doctors, small-business owners, and other technical "1%ers" that are more successful than the average, that have had the same opportunities as everyone else, but did more with their time than those who aren't as successful. Why penalize them? If anything, those who don't work to become successful should be penalized heavily for being burdens on society and a net-negative on infrastructure (although I'm not an authoritarian so I don't care about imposing my subjective and fallible will on others).

@cum2soon
Feminine traits are meant for women and masculine for men, it's the duality created by nature that brings equilibrium to relationships, family, and society. These are the traits that won out for the survival of each sex, so by imposing inferior qualities you are actively being a detriment to the survival of one. I can chose not to help people because it doesn't serve my interests, I can chose to be selfish because it increases my self-preservation.

Besides that aside, there's no point in arguing what's involved in a sociologic utopia, so let's drop that.

@Poker_Star
You're advocating for it and not in the sense of open-minded discussion, but purposeful debate. For what other reason would you argue for your points if not see them universally applied in your fashion?

Firespawn
Firespawn

@TalkBomber
oh wait
Except they paid off everything plus interest, when will this bailout meme die

WebTool
WebTool

@TalkBomber
Bailouts are becoming less of a thing. Lehman was allowed to fail to send a message.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Firespawn
when will this bailout meme die
he must have been talking about GM

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Sharpcharm
Feminine traits are meant for women and masculine for men, it's the duality created by nature that brings equilibrium to relationships, family, and society. These are the traits that won out for the survival of each sex, so by imposing inferior qualities you are actively being a detriment to the survival of one.
bullshit, every culture assigns different traits to the sexes, sometimes wildly different
You're advocating for it and not in the sense of open-minded discussion, but purposeful debate. For what other reason would you argue for your points if not see them universally applied in your fashion?
Well sure I want it to be applied, but that's not the same as forcing it on it people. If that was the case everyone in this thread would be forcing their views on people.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@VisualMaster
The traits of all cultures usually convene into a general constant within (males being provides, women being nurtures, etc.).

But, I've been a fool and fallen by my inability to restrict my contrarianism. I'm reminded how these discussions (and any discussion) serve little purpose, but to polarize the views of the orators and the onlookers. It'd be better to have a single man at the helm and his vision than the that of the numerous mob, for atleast his vision would be clear and relatively friction-less (compared to the abominable amalgamation of democracy). Full self-agency is the closest to the prior's efficiency, but holding more freedom than it.

Atleast I'm not the greater fool, for what it's worth. Goodnight.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@RumChicken
Yeah, American auto manufacturers suck, and we should honestly let them die. American Manufacturers should just focus on producing parts for older/classic cars.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Fried_Sushi
Yeah, I noticed you ducked that one completely.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@FastChef
Except inheritance isn't income. It's literally cash being transferred from one owner to another without the process of a sale or Labour involvement.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@happy_sad
spend your whole life amassing wealth to make the life for your children and grandchildren easier than your own
die before you can start distributing assets
government takes 3/4ths of your hard earned wealth
gives it to tyresha and get 13 kids
kill yourself, nigger.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@BunnyJinx
give me a specific number
Ummmm... I did 168 posts ago faggot

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@MPmaster
shit quality of life
in america
ok man. just go youre not even trying anymore

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Harmless_Venom
@RumChicken
@Methnerd
Less than 10% of taxes go to welfare. Complaining about your taxes going to Laquesha or Smelly Dave doesn't make a lot of sense mathematically.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@SomethingNew
paying taxes isnt communism. i know youre trying to be cool and edgy but stop man its pathetic

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Firespawn
Its not a meme. Its a thing that happened in our lifetime. Government interfered in free market in the interest of preserving the nation and it worked. Literally this whole thread has been about how government is evil and the free market is god. But maybe sometimes government regulation is necessary.

happy_sad
happy_sad

It should be raised to 100% and excise tax should be lowered

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Bidwell
Its literally income. Its money they recieved from another thats the definition of income
cash being transferred from one owner to another
ya no shit

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Methnerd
ignoring the logical fallacy the money is just handed over to nigs what makes tyeshas kids less deserving than yours? yours havnt done shit. You build this whole premise of the fruits of your hard work and labor. If this is a meritocracy why the fuck am i rewarding your shitbag kid? hell still be a fucking multi millionaire after the tax is paid and his community will be all the better for it

Methshot
Methshot

@SomethingNew
"It's bad for the society when father's fail to pass on valuable lessons to their sons."

So much extreme irony here it isn't even funny. Spout off neoclassical economics as if it's the gospel and completely ignore the economic history of the country and how it maneuvered into the superpower it is today.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

The welfare state is only good for ethnically and culturally homogenious societies where there's a sence of belonging (I.E. northern europe). No one wants to pay for the welfare of people that are foreign to themselves and have no or little similarities.

t. someone living close to the worst city in Sweden

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Carnalpleasure
Yes, what we do is silently exclude the outsider from networks that allow success, and then hate them for failing.

it doesn't matter, the white boys of /pol/ will soon be outnumbered in the US and they know it. At that point they will be the ones excluded and forced to take welfare. They think they'd rather die than be in that position, but I'm pretty sure nobody is going to fight them for it.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Nojokur
Wrong you dolt.
If anything happens to me then I want my kids to be looked after by having my money and not having the man get thier hands on it so they can use it fund transgender operations on the medical scheme.

@Stark_Naked
Fuck smelly Dave, he aint getting shit from me. Im talking about the useless shit tax money gets wasted on. Surley you dont belive that there are not millions of dollars wasted on stupid shit every year? A politician spend $8k to get taken to a meeting via a chopper instead of using a car service.
They dont deserve shit.

takes2long
takes2long

@King_Martha
your kids will still have millions. i think theyll survive
implying youll ever make enough to qualify for the state tax

likme
likme

@takes2long
i think theyll survive
implying the victim's survival justifies your theft
what a piece of shit you are

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@King_Martha
Surley you dont belive that there are not millions of dollars wasted on stupid shit every year? A politician spend $8k to get taken to a meeting via a chopper instead of using a car service.
a valid point.

why not cut out the middle man and be the guy running the chopper service? Selling to government and politicians beats whining about how your tax dollars are spent any day.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@takes2long
And the world will be no better with the extra money that the government will misuse.

Love how hard you are trying though.

Methshot
Methshot

@likme
@kizzmybutt
le government is evil
hurr durr taxation is theft
a bunch of broken records with nothing of substance to say. disgusting

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@lostmypassword
Because tax money isnt supposed to be there for politicians to use it to pay for their personal dinners at Hestons restaurant, fund their family holidays while flying first class or use it to pay for hookers.

If I was the pilot selling a ride to Minister Fuckface it doesn't change the fact that they are abusing the system and wasting tax dollars on shit they shouldn't.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@kizzmybutt
@King_Martha
see some of the screenshots I posted earlier for a few examples of the useless waste of taxpayer money.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Methshot
lol, a typical boot licker who probly relies on welfare and spends all day arguing in a Veeky Forums thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3IQC3HCg-w

Evilember
Evilember

@PackManBrainlure
tax money isnt supposed to be there for politicians to use it to pay for their personal dinners at Hestons restaurant, fund their family holidays while flying first class or use it to pay for hookers.
Good luck with that.

CEO's of major corporations do that shit ALL THE FUCKING TIME. At least politicians aren't drawing a multimillion dollar salary on top of their perks. There's no point to running the country if it pays wageslave salaries.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Methshot
I'll take that over some shitheel who can't even defend the most basic tenets of their own argument.
You make me laugh, Tommy.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Evilember
CEO's of major corporations do that shit ALL THE FUCKING TIME

And? thats private money mate. Not someone's inheritance or tax dollars they are spending. I dont give a fuck about what a CEO does.
Politicians already get paid well here not to mention a life time pension of $100k p/y after they retire for life, also tax payer money :^)

DeathDog
DeathDog

@BlogWobbles
Politicians already get paid well here not to mention a life time pension of $100k p/y after they retire for life, also tax payer money :^)
I'm saying that's nothing compared to what they could and generally do make in the private sector.

you may want poor slobs running the government, but the voters don't agree.

FastChef
FastChef

@DeathDog
the voters don't agree
That's because they think paying their representatives more will make them less likely to steal (you know, b/c they're already rich).
Unfortunately, they're going to steal anyway, so paying them high salaries is idiocy.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@FastChef
paying them high salaries is idiocy.
if you think a couple hundred thousand a year is a high salary for an executive in the US you're in for a shock.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@ZeroReborn
It never ends : http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/the-10-most-outrageous-things-pollies-have-spent-our-money-on/news-story/254c2cb0858b56fb89ed65f547bee3f0

But no, lets hand over %75 of our wealth to these people..

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@JunkTop
If you think a couple hundred thousand a year is nothing then you are stupid and need to consider an heroing.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@GoogleCat
I'm an executive and business owner.

I wouldn't run for president for the money, I couldn't afford the pay cut.

I might do it just because it's something rich white dudes do when they've done it all, but honestly I'd be a terrible politician.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@cum2soon
Retard detected
I swear people have cookie cutter answers for everything so they don't have to think

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Sharpcharm
a few million
Over 10 if you're married. Plus tons of deductions. Children will still be wildly wealthy. I don't have pity for the small percentage of people who are affected by this because they are still the richest people

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Stark_Naked
Nobody here would say that you should voluntarily pay more taxes. The government should just force you to

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@New_Cliche
but honestly I'd be a terrible politician
That's because you can't lie for shit.
You're no executive, just some 16 year old dumbfuck keyboarding from the basement.
Enjoy your tendies.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@New_Cliche
I'm an executive and business owner.
You're an executive shit talker.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Garbage Can Lid
yep, you sure got me there.

my problem as a politician would be my background in government contracting.

you see, I see the primary duty of the government being to spend money and thus get it into circulation. I can't think of a more direct way to get it from the printing presses to the people.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Nude_Bikergirl
It was in reference to those who have an issue with trusts and other entities used to arraigne estates in the most tax efficient manor.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

IL: Lame ducks make themselves millionaires, taxpayers pay

Bidwell
Bidwell

Anyone who supports this doesn't expect to gain any sort of inheritence themselves nor do they expect they will ever have an inheritence to give to their children.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Stupidasole
"No one can agree on exactly what a commie is"

You know what a fucking communist is. I know what a communist is. The rest of the country knows what a communist is, regardless if they've sorted out all the details.

let's count everything

You wouldn't need to count the sperm cells to know I jizzed on your moms face

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@iluvmen
You wouldn't need to count the sperm cells to know I jizzed on your moms face

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Bidwell
lol do you really expect to be part of the .5% elite one day? fucking delusional man

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Bidwell
wrong, I don't expect to leave my kids helpless in need of handouts, they'll learn how to generate capital and exploit people just like I did, if they don't want to work for it or become drug addict failures tough shit...

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Fuzzy_Logic
You poke holes in everything and only respond to things you can meme, show us some intelligent thoughts of your own. Even if you do, you won't say them in fear of some faggot like you finally getting to be the edgelord. Stop being so pretentious on an anonymous board.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@King_Martha
so what?

there's no guarantee they'll leave it to their kids. they have the choice of who it goes to. with a 75% estate tax, the choice is made for them. that's what this is really about, the government making choices for us.

Your post is like
there's no guarantee people will make an efficient use of their time
from now on everybody spends 2 hours a day doing productive government work for no pay

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@girlDog
the money would be spent on civil improvements like education and infrastructure not handed out to people in gold bullion

I can't type lol enough... I'll try... LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

First, the money would be handed out to people like gold bullion. All the contractors getting those infrastructure contracts would be based on nepotism and further our political corruption.

Second, the money would mostly be spent elsewhere just like all the other money we collect. Probably 60% for defense. So congrats your beautiful idea to take citizens money to improve education and infrastructure is now just pouring money into a corrupt war machine that's globally and systemically oppressing the freedom it claims to stand for.

likme
likme

@w8t4u
Except that it isn't neither earned via sale or Labour

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Supergrass
You poke holes
you can meme
you do
you won't say
you finally getting
And yooooooooooooo, decorated myyyyyyyy life.........

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Nojokur
dude wtf why did you get rich u fugging asshole gibsmedat
wtf why did you stop investing as you got older wtf u asshole you should help the economy even though you don't gain anything from it

Capitalism creates winners and losers. Youre the loser

Techpill
Techpill

@Nude_Bikergirl
1776 WILL COMMENCE AGAIN

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Sharpcharm
When you realise Veeky Forums is predominantly economically illiterate slackers it starts to make more sense

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@WebTool
Let take money from people who didn't earn it and hand it to people who didn't earn it

Fucking Jaews man.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Deadlyinx
I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE

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