Would anyone be interested, if it existed, in an ad network like adsense that...

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Would anyone be interested, if it existed, in an ad network like adsense that cant be blocked by adblock?
Its possible and simple to do by developing serverside
Would that have demand?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Gigastrength
Its possible and simple to do by developing serverside
Wow I wonder why every single ad service in the entire world hasn't done it yet.

Techpill
Techpill

@Gigastrength
fuck off adblock shill
make ads that dont cause cancer

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Deadlyinx
It havent been done, because it cant control the website, the user and the content, and they dobt like it
Like, you cant count cpm, but the model would be PPC and CPA
Another reason is that a lot of sites cant change its serverside or wouldnt allow for security reasons an serverside script
But still, a small company willing to solve that would be very feasible

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Gigastrength

I suggest you figure out how something works before trying to come up with solutions to problems you don't understand.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Skullbone

Proprietary serverside software that has a 24/7 connection/log for the ad service that the clients place on their own whitelisted servers.

Problem is ad servers and services get blacklisted too fast and adblock is increasingly content aware.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Burnblaze
How that works is by blocking tags in html or blocking domains, basically
Tell me how its not possible to overcome that serverside
Lets assume its possible, would people be interested in it?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Skullbone
Another reason is that a lot of sites cant change its serverside or wouldnt allow for security reasons an serverside script
This is so vague and yet still manages to be completely wrong. Modern websites are essentially one big server side script.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@TalkBomber
I mean some, like blogspot users for example, it doesnt deal with php, but with js ads work, some people wouldnt be able to use
Im aware how it works, but if you care to explain why it cant be done serverside
You could use the user website as a click redirect to the ad server
Or even some url shortening service
The image would load as base64

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Skullbone
How would you track clicks? Is just block your redirect tracker

eGremlin
eGremlin

@RumChicken
but if you care to explain why it cant be done serverside
explain how it would make any difference

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Skullbone
How would you stop artyom and his massive botnet from pretending to click all your those juicy ad links? You don't have any impression stats.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@DeathDog
The tracker would use a legitimate service like url shortening, and when the user clicked the link of the site it would redirect to the service, it would collect a shit load of information to validate the click, the adblock wouldnt know if its legit or an ad

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@PurpleCharger
Show some kind of proof of concept because nothing you have suggested so far sounds like it will remotely work.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@PurpleCharger
I would gladly block your urlshortener to not give ad clicks to greedy publishers. bit.do is blocked by ublock default lists

Nojokur
Nojokur

@PurpleCharger
How about I just block all images that have a link pointing to your site?

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Emberfire

Yeah? It blocks the <ad> tag? Good tag, many blocks.

You are correct it does block domains.

You're not going to get anywhere being arrogant and feigning conceptual understanding of something.

See my other post. There is an actual feasible solution somewhere in there. Whether it would have to be done with cloud stuff or DNS trickery or whatever that's up to you to figure out if you can even get that far in the concept. Let alone R&D, idiot.

@Emberburn

Lunatick
Lunatick

@New_Cliche
Yeah, lets assume bit ly done that, if you block the entire server users would stop using your adblock because most part of the service redirect to legit links, meaning you would need to find a way to only block ads ones buts serverside

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Lunatick
Don't block the link then. Just block the any images that have that link

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Gigastrength
the reason no one does this is because you have to manually add the ads into your content, most people rely on faceless automation like google adsense for ads. its trivial to do by hand but its also very uncommon in todays world to interact with advertisers directly.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Gigastrength
Fullstack developer here. There are ways to make blocking advertisements exceedingly difficult, and there are ways to detect that they've been blocked. The problem is that it's not worth the effort. You can do dumb shit like embedding ads inside of images, and having the page be one large image or a handful of medium sized ones, with javascript magic overlaid on top of it to add in links. This is a black hole for bandwidth, server-side resources, makes your website load slower than shit, unresponsive, etc.

Every way to force ad views has some negative effect, and frequently hurts the effectiveness of your site for other users, all to target a demographic that is more likely than not, not receptive to advertisements in the first place. Breaking functionality is a great way to shoot yourself in the foot.

Maybe a few direct banner adds can slip by, like partnered authors on a book site or something, but any sort of third party stuff is trivial to eliminate. Only fucking idiots rely on 3rd party analytics exclusively instead of combining them with scripts that compile information from your apache/nginx/whatever logs.

takes2long
takes2long

@AwesomeTucker
The image would be get in the serverside and transformed to data64, meaning it would be basically text, not loaded from a link

@Booteefool
It would be automated, the ad server would be requested in serverside and sent filtered to the user to stop adblock

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@cum2soon
Its not that complex if you can get the ad severs in the serverside, you can make the link look like a normal one and transform the image into data64, into text

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Need_TLC
The fuck are you talking about.

You're talking about vaguely related technical terms. You clearly don't have a proper understanding of the technology, the English language, or both.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@MPmaster
Not primary language, not explaining in technical terms, show wheres wrong

Emberburn
Emberburn

@TreeEater
not explaining in technical terms
show wheres wrong
really makes me think

Flameblow
Flameblow

@TreeEater
Posts something unintelligible.
Expects others to explain things for him

Mate, that's not how this works. If you want to have a discussion, you need to clearly state your ideas.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Flameblow
@Flameblow
Data64 is a way to load img src with text
http request from serverside to ad server to get instructions on how to show ad on clientside
2 posts same person, obvious troll, otherwise would point what he doesnt get

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Nojokur
And why can't this be blocked with an ad blocker using heuristics, like all of the decent ones already do?

There's nothing new being presented here. Proper ad blockers intercept the request to GET the add in the first place, and dynamically remove the elements framing the add from the web page as it is being loaded and rendered. They rewrite and alter the webpage on the fly in real time. As the content is shoved out, you lose control over it. The client can do whatever it wants with the data you send it. It can display it as is, It can ignore it. It can rewrite it. It can cache it. It can take the content, do analysis on it and cross reference other sources of data, generate metadata, whatever. You cannot directly control any of it.

If you want to trick the client into displaying adds, your only choice is obfuscating the request for the add in the first place. That does work, but once the client detects it, it can block it. Small sites running first party adds don't even need to obfuscate stuff in the first place. Big sites will have their ads on the easylist in a matter of weeks, if not days regardless.

You can slip in a false positive that will get blocked, and have the website fail to function if that does get blocked, but that doesn't get ad blocker users to turn it off, it just drives them away, and can interfere with 'normal' users, particularly if their are decent admins managing their internet. (Any site that does this is practically guaranteed to not be important for work related activities, so my response as an IT guy would be, "why the fuck are you looking at Hulu on company time?")

TL;DR you are in a battle with a client that has total control over how the data you send them is presented. You cannot win.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Nojokur

I think you're being a little more fatalist than neccicary.

Since ad blocking is systemic that means there is an antithesis to it's method. At least that's the logic OP is using and i would say he is correct.

It's just not worth developing a solution because this isn't really a problem. The answer is responsible and sensable ad usage amongst advertisers. You will see the industry is actually moving in that direction, slowly.

Even if OP developed a propriatary solution to obfuscuate, track, and rotate ad content it wouldn't attract the market he thinks it would.

Have you been to xhamster and xvideos lately? They have obnoxious ads that are getting past my adblock with ease. That's the market you would be tapping. Porn ads per click have a terrible return. There's money there, but not for OP.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Crazy_Nice
I haven't seen an add on those sites recently, but I don't exactly visit them often. I also have some more power user oriented stuff going, because it's my job, so that might effect things. Dunno. I'll load up a VM and fuck around a bit. Chances are they will be blocked soon, if they aren't already, because the lists are actively and aggressively updated to reflect broken/leaking stuff on major websites.

A small site, like the already mentioned book site, can get away with hosting a few of their owns ads, and their viewership is so low that it will never make it onto any of the big lists. Slightly savvier ad block users will nuke the ads and never look at them again. They weren't going to click on them anyways, so nothing is lost.

It really is as bleak of an outlook as I'm suggesting. Literally the only way to get away with ads is to sneakily disguise them as actual content (paid reviews and shit), or to be small enough that you don't attract attention. You are fighting the collective might of some of the most knowledgeable web developers in the world. It's the same reason that almost all forms of DRM are total failures. They will piss on your project because they find it amusing to solve the puzzle, or despise you with a religious fervor.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@kizzmybutt

I think it's possible to obfuscuate your ad sources via serverside methods like he is suggesting, obviously something a little more sophisticated than the idiot OP has in mind. But because of the nature of adblock users and the community the ROI would be awful in the SFW market.

Something like that might be profitable in the porn side of the internet. I'm not going to do market efficacy studies or any R&D to prove my theory though so i suppose we'll just have to disagree.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Methnerd

An addendum: I have cloud computing in mind. Or piggybacking off an essential service or something like that via a partnership with the content producers. Nothing like an adblock wall (fuck you forbes) or anything like that though.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Methnerd
That's just it. The margins are so thin that it's not worth it. It

targets a demographic that wants you to fuck off
requires a lot of development costs
requires additional server overhead (bandwidth/cpu/maybe disc space)
requires much more active management, much of it proactive in nature
starts a cat and mouse game where the risk cannot be accurately assessed due to the ad-hoc nature of the community effort
will make your company the target of brutal grey hat penetration testing where they probe and DDoS you with questionably legal botnets

It's enormous risk, very low revenue, on a tiny demographic, and you can't even be sure that you will win anything.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Methnerd
Either way, OP would just be joining the cat and mouse game the rest of advertisers/"content creators" are playing. You can get as creative as you want but the client can and will find a way to block it eventually. Then you'll find a way to change it. Then they'll block it again.. etc etc etc.

Or you can do an ad wall like Forbes and see your traffic drop off a cliff.

Like @Nojokur
said
TL;DR you are in a battle with a client that has total control over how the data you send them is presented. You cannot win.

This is an undeniable fact. Plus the more crafty you are at sneaking past adblockers, the more the user base will begin to hate you and stop visiting your site/content - adblockers haven't exploded in popularity by accident.

FastChef
FastChef

@Gigastrength
You should make a program called Adallow. Every ad that a person looks at makes them instant cash. However the fine print says its infinitesimally small. Also its not truly automatic it just adds the cash after your done browsing.

Also there could be discounts that appear on random products as they happen to appear. (you are looking at Chipotle stock on yahoo finance and BOOM 5 dollar coupon offer)

So people get ""paid"" like 0.0001 cents an ad and they get sweet offers.

Companies will be thrilled you thought of a workaround to adblock. You could give Twitch.tv orgasms if you could convince people to actually sit through the ads hour after hour.

Anyway that would likely be an easier to exploit Adblock then pissing the globe off by breaking Adblock.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@FastChef

That's an idea. I don't see it gaining any tracktion at all.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@FastChef
And then the first piece of malware leaks into your system. Tech articles shit on you for being untrustworthy, toot their horns to generate outrage traffic, any investors you have run away, and the ad block users get even more militant in their beliefs.

It's game theory in action. Or prisoner's dilemma. Whatever you want to call it. As soon as one entity in a group starts to behave 'unethically', they gain an advantage over the others. The less ethical you are relative to your competition, the more money you can make. At some point, everyone is playing dirty, and there is backlash. Backlash that rips into your profits. So to maintain your profits, you get even sleazier. The backlash gets stronger. Repeat ad nauseum. Eventually you reach the point we are at now where ad blocker users are so heavily conditioned to be absolutely paranoid of any advertisement that you fundamentally cannot approach them. It doesn't matter if you are doing everything reasonably and securely, they've been backstabbed so many times that they simply aren't going to trust you.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Evil_kitten
Compounding that, there's tons of users who only jumped on the bandwaggon when stuff got obnoxious. Anyone who is serious about marketing will tell you that customers do not change their habits without a good reason. They find a shop to buy their weekly shit at, and won't change unless they really need something they can't get there, or it's closed, or something. Even if stuff is slightly cheaper elsewhere, or the travel distances are better, they won't behave absolutely rationally. Familiarity is what you want to breed if you want loyal customers. These users jumped to a different set of tracks when they started using ad blockers. It provided a substantial increase to the quality of their experience, and things had to get very bad before many of them would take the 2 minutes to research and install a blocker. You aren't going to change their habits back if you don't have some EXTREMELY compelling reasons for why browsing with ads is a superior experience. Even if it somehow IS a superior experience (and it basically never is), you need to overcome the hurdle of daily habits.

Aggressive practices created this situation. It was a profitable ride while it lasted, but the bed has been made. Now it's time to sleep in it.

Techpill
Techpill

@viagrandad
There's basically no point in trying to get people who use an adblocker to click on ads.

Ads are for targeting stupid people who don't know what the fuck they want.

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