Seriously guys, cropto is a trade medium

SniperWish
SniperWish

havn't been on Veeky Forums for a while
check the catalog
people still hyping crypos as investments

seriously guys, cropto is a trade medium
trading them is like buying thousands of US dollar bills and speculating on the exchange rate

but even more foolish, because there is litterally nothing backing these "currencies" exept from inflation

inflation that is fact, generated solely from other people buying them under the same delusion

it's just another manifestation of a ponzi scheme, you buy a worthless product, hype it as much as you humanly can, then try to sell it off to other idiots who do the same

your crypto could be based on marbles, shells, stock in fake companies, positions in a fake buisiness

it will end in tears when these people who tell you they are winning realize they have a million play monies that nobody will buy
and government crack down on them for false trader listings/barter violations/lack of risk holdings/P2P pyramid marketing

are people really STILL this stupid

All urls found in this thread:
http://bitcoinchaser.com/bitcoin-units-and-denominations
WebTool
WebTool

@SniperWish
why are you so upset about it?

Most people on biz aren't hyping them as long term investments, but short term holds over a few months at most. Bitcoin is different as that seems to have established the most legitimacy of all cryptos, so naturally some suggest long term holding.

Speculating in cryptos is a great way to make easy money. The simple fact is buying monero when all the dark net news came out helped me get 136 xmr at .0056 and I sold at .0214. I made around 400% doing nothing, trading these fake coins that you hate so much. Best part is if I bought when I first saw it a monero thread on Veeky Forums I would've made 1000% or even more.

you'd be stupid to ignore an opportunity to make easymoney, regardless of how much you disagree with it.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@SniperWish
If you can sell something for ten times more than you bought it for why do you give a shit that it's backed by fairy dust?

TechHater
TechHater

@SniperWish

t.Rothchild shill

Nojokur
Nojokur

@WebTool
I'm angry because it's just gambling

plain and simple

there is no "product"
there is no growth

sure you can win, you can win in a casino as well

the odds however are not in the favor of the investor, and they can never be because there is NO MARKET GROWTH
no crypto is destroyed, and you better hope no more is issued

therefore there are only three terminal outcomes
1. all stock collapses to true zero value (see: fiat vs non fait currency)
2. inflation continues infinitely for no reason, bitcoin is traded in place of national currency (if anyone isn't smart enough to outright ban it for trade protection), bitcoin faces a euro-style collapse as there is and cannot be a local/international trade barrier
3. the number of traders secretly declines, till a tiny group of people hold all the stake and can cause a market crash/rebound cycle

@ZeroReborn
because its just gambling, gamble if you want that's your buisiness
but don't act like it's a business, a skill or an investment plan

@TechHater
barter>common comodity>gold>gold standard>gold standard>fiat standard>non fait standard> non fait non standard

with every step the economy gets more fragile, bitcoin and the like are another step in the wrong direction
they then end up with a pile of untradable currency

Supergrass
Supergrass

@SniperWish
That is not how a Ponzi scheme works OP. In a Ponzi scheme the seller pays old investors with money from new investors.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Nojokur
I get what you're saying. I still don't know why other people gambling upsets you so much. And using monero as the most recent example, sure it was gambling by someone's standards, but it was a pretty safe bet risk/reward wise. Some people say investing in the stock market is gambling, but we know better. Since most people on biz are poor, with few marketable skills, they will take great risk if it has great reward potential. When the news came out that monero was being adopted by darknet markets, we all knew there was a risk of some catastrophic event that would crash the price. We all remember the DAO hack (which didn't even cost eth holder's as much as it should've if they held or sold early enough) and knew anything was possible with monero. But we took the risk because the potential reward was 2x, 5x, 10x, even 100x down the road. It has panned out so far. You can say we got lucky, but we got no more lucky than someone buying a stock after news that a 2 year old company has entered a new market, or come out with a new product.

Couple other points:
no crypto is destroyed
some cryptos do 'burn' coins as part of their protocol. many bitcoin have been permanently rendered unspendable. so some coins are legitimately, or de facto, destroyed.

3 terminal outcomes
come on bro, there's never only 3 outcomes for something this complex.

it's just gambling
i guess. working for a living is gambling. you're gambling you're not going to get fired every day, gambling your company won't go bankrupt. of course it's not really gambling, but I said it is. that's all you're doing, saying something's true when we all know it's not.

bitcoin step in the wrong direction
could be, depends entirely on our actions moving forward. hard to say anything's worse than what we're doing right now with fiat money and our fiscal policy.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Nojokur
I'm angry because it's just gambling
hype driven markets are not randomness, but a man-made construct and are such exploitable.
it's not fucking gambling.

the same happens all the time in the stock market, remember elizabeth holmes

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Supergrass
a pyramid scheeme, not a ponzi scheme
my mistake

but I am sure you understand what I am saying here, that the inevitable loss from over-valuing of a crypto is just being passed through successively larger "investor" groups

@Dreamworx
I hear what you are saying, but there is a difference between "taking risk" and "gambling"

investing is about making informed choices about who should get startup money or bail outs
that's important, and a real skill

speculating on stock smoothes supply across the market, you are taking a risk sure; but the money is made with skill

the difference is that there is net gain

when you invest in stock, collectively the investors win

when you invest in crypto, collectively nobody makes anything, it's just money changing hands

burnt currency
comes with it's own problems, because it's unilateral and that sets a dangerous precedent
imagine if the government said an individual dollar bill was invalid and the trouble that would cause

so in short
investing has risk, but the money comes from sound business planning and helps phisical buisiness, there is net gain
investing in cryptos IS risk, the money comes from risk, there is no net gain

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Need_TLC
I never claimed it was random
however I think there is a large element of guesswork/random

what makes it gambling is that there is no net gain

hype driven markets carry a lot of risk, but that being said they drive growth, guarantee net returns etc

the crypto market isn't hype driven, it's inflation driven
the hype is literally baseless

it's just another "get rich quick" that people who are invested in shill for

5mileys
5mileys

Stay poor op

Bidwell
Bidwell

@SniperWish

trading them is like buying thousands of US dollar bills and speculating on the exchange rate

Isn't that essentially what Forex is?

massdebater
massdebater

doesn't mean you can't make money off of it.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@massdebater
but this is Veeky Forums, not /casino/

gambling and discussing gambling shouldn't be a distraction to real businessmen

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Crazy_Nice
the crypto market isn't hype driven, it's inflation driven
But the whole economy is like that since the capitalists won the world wars.
Some of the dollars that are created ex-nihilo just end up in crypto, and you make a lot more money fructifying a large capital rather than being a productive worker

cum2soon
cum2soon

@SniperWish
trading them is like buying thousands of US dollar bills and speculating on the exchange rate

yeah cos that is so dumb, look what happened to Soros... oh wait

massdebater
massdebater

@Nojokur
I'm angry because it's just gambling

why does gambling make you angry - it is what plenty of hedge funds and prop firms do

Methnerd
Methnerd

@SniperWish
Actually, big money is not interested in cryptos, because the the liquidity is ridiculouslt low for that kind of money to trade, thus the markets are very soft in general for trading. It's just an amateur world mostly.

Basic algos have lots of value in those markets, we can see that running couple hundred backtests past 3 years. Im not heavily trading cryoptos but it seems it's very soft market, so not a necessary a bad choise for amateurs/not institutional traders.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

And sorry for bad english im on my daily drunk

Emberburn
Emberburn

Whenever I see a 'Trumpcoin' thread I honestly wonder how people so retarded can even operate a computer and create a post.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Emberburn
I haven't even checked what trump coin actually is, yet i see that thread every day at biz. Just sounds so funny it is automatically in the same category with doge coin

When is say trading cryptos i mean mostly bitcoin, it at least have some kind of minimal liquidity and is not a fully joke

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Emberburn
This

WebTool
WebTool

@Emberburn
Stay poor

TechHater
TechHater

@SniperGod

Its literally a fucking standard template crypto like the 700 others. Its a digital token named Trump, there is nothing technically there whatsoever. The joke is that this little project ha no affiliation with Trump, or anyone whatsoever. Its a literal fucking token meme joke, worth 5 cents with a current 24 hour trading volume of a little over $700.

The even funnier thing is that everyone involved in it knows its an actual joke and a P&D, they're trying to pump it, then dump it.. on who? Themselves, because there's no fucking outsiders to hold the bags. Can you imagine anything more utterly fucking mentally retarded?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Nojokur
You sound like someone who made a few bad trades. Don't project, child. There are many people making money hand over fist. Just because you aren't doesn't mean it isn't possible.

I've made around 4000$ US in the last month trading crypto. Stay ignorant.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@SniperGod
At least you admit you have no idea what it is.

@TechHater
Of course it has no direct affiliation with Trump. PAC's can't have any contact...
They admit themselves it not a technical coin, we all know it isn't and frankly who fucking cares. It's a PAC which will be funded by the coin and is trying to be more successful than the previous bitcoin PACs.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Supergrass
well nothing you say there is wrong
if you follow it through to that point it just becomes a more philosophical issue than a practical one

however I think that they point about the risks speculating on cryptos pose is valid

@cum2soon
I wouln't consider soros a example to follow
speculation on exchange rates is foolish *unless* you engage in insider trading or are in a group of people wealthy enough to effect the outcome

and speculating on crypto shift is even more foolish than exchange speculation, because there is no real world trade backing for crpto's

the US can't just abandon the dollar overnight, however a lot of trader of cryptos can and do just that

@massdebater
I literally just told you

taking risks =/= gambling
many buisiness strategies have elements of risk, but there is a net gain
there is security in investing because on the large scale the investors all come out ahead, which is why hedge funds exist

but cryptos have no market gain, the aggregate investor gets literally nothing
just like a pyramid scheme, there is no growth generated

so don't say "everyone gambles" and try to put other strategies in the same basket

@Methnerd
well that's a new argument to me
let me think

while you are right that the market is soft, there are fundimental differences in trading crypto and stock
if someone was to try to learn by crypto trading it would end in tears

because there is no net loss in the market, an ameture could trade randomly or pseudo-randomly, break even, then think they were ready to take on real stock trading

girlDog
girlDog

@WebTool
if you play blackjack at least one person walks away from the tabble saying "you just have to be good at the game" and "enjoy being poor by not playing"

the other players?
they generally say nothing, or pretend they won as well to save face

easy to get the wrong idea because online everyone can pretend to be a winner

cum2soon
cum2soon

@BunnyJinx
shill pls

everyone who's holding in a inflation market will do anything to get others to invest

while some people are making money, some people are loosing money

and most of all, the average investor breaks even
and always will
because there is no market gain

it's kind of a fundamental that people who didn't study or just arn't bright might miss

you can't "invest" in a market where there is no growth
what you are actually doing is "speculating"

and when you are speculating on something that's so insular (unlike oil prices, exchange rates) there really is no skill to it

stop treating your gambling habit as a buisiness skill

5mileys
5mileys

Lol op there is nothing backing the us dollar either. Bitcoin is a global currency and is the future of currency. Its volatility is dying down every year and every year it's usability increases. There's now a visa debit card you can use with it. People with collapsing economies are putting their money in bitcoin. People will always fight the change and be mad at what they don't understand. People are trying to make money off of it and there's nothing wrong with that, but personally I invest a small amount of my income every month so when the us economy collapses I'm not left with worthless paper that is worthless and backed by nothing.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@5mileys
I dont even know where to start ith a post like this

1. the US dollar is non fait, true.
but it's backed by massive amounts of debt, household debt, government debt
it's also backed by the fact that it's so entrenched internationally

2.bitcoin is becoming more and more stable
true, but as it grows in size it will inevitably hit a number of massive trade barriers

first governments will make demands that it be auditable for tax
then they will apply the same investment laws that regular currency has (RIP speculating)
then smaller countries will ban it outright for trade protection reasons

it will face the same challenges as the euro

it's laughable you are worried about the collapse of the dollar, yet think bitcoin is comparatively safer

the bitcoin market is exposed to insta-death
a crisis could result in literally every holder dumping at the same time
with no agency empowered to halt trading, and a whole world of hurt if they did it's an awful idea to use bitcoin for anything but an instant transaction medium

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Fried_Sushi
Governments can't do anything about it, this type of currency wether it's bitcoin or not is the future. Nobody owns it, it's completely open source. Good luck trying to regulate the internet. If banks want to start their own digital currency, which I've read they began doing. It will end up like the "private internet" or intranet.

Why would anyone want a currency backed by debt? The fed just prints money as they please. There is a finite amount of bitcoin. The us dollar is entrenched to older generations, but now people are growing up and they don't even know a world were bitcoin doesn't exist. It's like when people tryed to ban the automobile because it would disrupt horse traffic. People are scared of change, but it's coming and bitcoin is the future. It's just not 100 percent ready yet.

Value comes from a persons perception of what value is. Why is gold worth anything? Why are diamonds worth anything when they can make artificial diamonds that are exactly like real diamonds. You cannot possibly know the outcome, but one thing is for sure the system we have now will collapse. When that happens I will have a stash of a global currency I can use anywhere in the world instantaneously.

Playboyize
Playboyize

butcone is the future, its so simple and easy to use
ok first verify your account to buy
buy the coin
use it in every day situations such as...
never mind just sell while you still can
Bitcoin truly is the next gen currency

iluvmen
iluvmen

@cum2soon
Governments can't do anything about it
well if they made it illegal tomorrow, ho many major providers would use/accept it?
none probably

then if they shutdown the trading hubs (see: megaupload) access would become erratic

it is not "the way of the future", it's just a new and stupid idea

why would any country give up sovereign currency?

@Playboyize
yea lets just have one universal currency, uncontrolled by national or corporate interest

it really would be that simple, wouldn't it

takes2long
takes2long

@iluvmen
Even if they made it illegal you could still convert it to whatever currency you want and use it that way. There's no killing this idea, it's like when they shut down napster. Look how that went for the government and the music industry. The samething will happen to banking.

Again this isn't about countries, government, and the banking system. People are tired of these old systems and realize bitcoin is the future. When brexit happened their currency value dropped and bitcoin went up almost the same exact value, which means people took their money and put it into bitcoin. It's really fascinating watching this change happen.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@SniperWish
are people really STILL this stupid+ 0 post omitted.
well, you see,

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Snarelure
crap. burned myself.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@takes2long
you arn't even making an argment WHY bitcoin is so great, you are just repeating the same claims
it's great
it's new
it's unstoppable
it will make us rich

bitcoin is like any other currency exept
A. it's not government issue (no security, no trade barriers)
B. it's non fait (more risk of collapse)
C. it's finite (no guarentee of availability, monnopoly supply issues)
D. no hard copy (risk of hacking, internal fraud)

all these things combine to create a perfect storm

if there was a sell off, it could trigger a crisis of confidence
now normally sudden crashes are mitigated by real time trade limitations (people can only hear about and act on a selloff move so fast), however because bitcoin is all digital a massive portion of holders could all sell off instantly "D"
this WOULD trigger a digital run on the banks
normally this couldn't happen because trading would be frozen in the short term
but how would bitcoin freeze trading? "A"
it's a currency, not a stock. A freeze would make the whole bitcoin economy stop dead within an hour or two

generally what stops a run a stock is that at some point people start buying on the hope of a rebound, scooping up discounted stock

but in bitcoins case this would be unlikely
why?
because bitcoin isn't stock, it doesn't represent any real business or market
if a metal company was going under and I bought all the stock, even if the stock became virtually worthless as the majority holder or stock I could recoup losses "B"

there is nothing to recoup when it comes to bitcoin, a few people would just be left with trillions of play money certificates
and if they couldn't trade with each other (unless by some million to one chance) bitcoin would start being burnt "C"

I hope you see how the instability of bitcoin could manifest

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Snarelure
see this is a key point of mine

bitcoin has no "minimum value"

you can melt even mexican pessos to ensure they don't become literally worthless

this means at the peak of a crisis, that 11th hour rebound would never take place aka. the dead cat bounce
and knowing this, bitcoin could head straight to the pavement

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Ignoramus
I never said it will make anybody rich

Of course I understand those risks, which is why I said it isn't 100 percent ready to take over yet. We're just going to have to see what happens we can make predictions all day long but these are the facts.

More and more people are using bitcoin every year. It's becoming easier to use and safer to use. It's volatility has been steadily decreasing. It's been around for seven years now and has only been getting stronger.

There's a finite amount of everything that has value in this world. The rarer something is the more value people place on it. Who knows how this will play out. Why I think bitcoin is great is for one I can send money instantaneously to anywhere on the planet to anyone and buy anything. It's not controlled by anybody and the government doesn't track my spending. It's a global currency and is changing the world.

Again I'm only investing a small portion of income monthly into bitcoin, you'd be a fool to invest all of your money into it. People having been saying bitcoin is dying since it started yet it only grows.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

OP, just shut the fuck up. You're one smug grandpa, aren't you?

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Supergrass

Of course it has no direct affiliation with Trump. PAC's can't have any contact...

Are you seriously this delusional? Oh wow, I never fell for the whole 'masses are retarded' shit but I'm starting to see it now. No wonder companies make millions selling retarded shit, there's plenty of you around.

This is a fucking P&D consisting of <200 people who will take a shit on themselves. Honestly tell me how old you are, you can't be older than 16, I refuse to believe you are.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@SniperWish
This sounds suspiciously similar to fiat... Hm, that really made me think.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@SniperWish
trading them is like buying thousands of US dollar bills and speculating on the exchange rate

what is forex trading for 100, alex

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@WebTool
non trader here, please explain something to me because I don't seem to understand:

if you bought 136 of something @ .0056 (usd?) and sold at .0214, while yes that's 400% profit, isn't that $0.76 in and $2.91 out? meaning a total profit of...$2.15?

Or is what im assuming is a USD value a BTC or something else?

@Nojokur
gambling is playing a game of pure chance, simply playing against numeric odds typically with a house advantage.

trading a currency based on news and current events (even if that news/current event is just "THIS NEW CRYPTO CAME OUT!" is not playing against numeric odds and is therefore, not gambling.

keep in mind i do not trade stock, forex, or crypto. this is just an outsider looking in

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Sir_Gallonhead
It's a value of btc

http://bitcoinchaser.com/bitcoin-units-and-denominations

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