Why is gold valueable? I mean, why is gold overvalued by being a safe harbor...

DeathDog
DeathDog

Why is gold valueable? I mean, why is gold overvalued by being a safe harbor currency regarding it's technical value. Why is gold a safe harbor currency? Isn't this like a big scam?

If your answer is "because it's rare" or "because it's shiny" please leave this thread.

All urls found in this thread:
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Investor-Z/Chapter-154?id=322844
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt7hTCeoXUM
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100805025053AAvfLwB
whereismyname
whereismyname

@DeathDog
Why is dollar valueable? I mean, why is dollars overvalued by being a safe harbor currency regarding it's technical value. Why is dollars a safe harbor currency? Isn't this like a big scam?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@DeathDog
self-fulfilling prophecy.

basically it's valuable because everyone thinks it is.

also it's pretty, durable and rare.
like diamonds.

Spamalot
Spamalot

Gold is a useful and therefore valuable material in many industries.

and it's incredibly rare. finding one single ounce of gold will make you $1,300 richer. Good fucking luck.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Spamalot
and it's incredibly rare
hundred billions of tons of gold on earth alone it's not exactly rare user. some estimate about 1% of our worlds mass is gold.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@DeathDog
network affect, same reason funny green paper is valuable

[spoiler]but both are shit vs bitcoin :^)[/spoiler]

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@happy_sad

but the problem is that it is not that easy to dig up in large quantities. Things that are very hard to get or to produce are expensive. The other problem with gold is that so much of it lies in some god damn vaults and is unusable and another big part is in jewelry -> almost unusable

guess the main value of gold is that it in fact is shiny and not minable in very large quantities and so the people adapted it as a very valuable good (in the middle ages only kings had gold because it looked fancy af)

whereismyname
whereismyname

as the user above me

it's hard to produce
has some uses

does not degrate over time

you could store value in potatoes or porsches for a while

it goes back to ancient times

it has always been the money on this planet

its was easier to exchange than direct barter

nowadays it's just another comodity

gold market is rigged

its still good to have some though

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Spamalot

There's a lot of elements that are just as rare or more rate. Plus being useful.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Because people like gold (demand) and there isn't that much of it available (supply). It's basic economics don't complicate it.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@DeathDog
because gold has magic powers to grant the bearer, immense riches

Nojokur
Nojokur

World's first Bitcoin in physical form. Rare, impossible to forge, can represent large amounts of money in relatively small packages. Gold was only useful before the digital banking system existed. I don't think of it as currency anymore. Its just useful in making electronics. The only reason its still expensive is the historical value which is very hard to shake off in a few decades.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Garbage Can Lid
gold is not durable

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Carnalpleasure
guess the main value of gold is that it in fact is shiny and not minable in very large quantities
artificial scarcity really
and also the greatest value of gold is the resistance to corrosion while also be a decent conductor.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Poker_Star
it doesn't burn, it doesn't rust or oxidize, it's hard to dissolve in acid, it doesn't react with anything under normal conditions, if it melts you can always recast it, it doesn't shatter or break, it never changes its state of matter in normal conditions, it's easy to keep pure, it's dense which makes it easy to control, it's impossible to forge since its a pure element, etc, etc.

gold is pretty fucking durable. it being soft doesn't mean it's not durable.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

its not gold that is valuable, its just a MEDIUM of trade that cannot be replicated, its not abundant, it doesn't degrade, and is malleable.

rather than carrying a two thousand baked pies to trade for a cow, you trade a sack of gold coins for the cow. That guy you traded with will then go and buy some tools and medicine or get some service from some hooker down the street.

resources are valuable as well as assets. like a car or plow. land is valuable. water is valuable.
consume and breed.
humans are livestock.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@DeathDog

It is because it is rare. There's literally nothing more to it. Why was gold picked over anything else back when fiat currency didn't exist? Because it was rare and it looked cool. Human beings are very superficial, visual beings. Gold is rare and looks good, therefore it was universally considered valuable.

massdebater
massdebater

@DeathDog
Rarity, expense of extraction from rock, lots of uses, general non-reactability, expense of storage.

It's not actually that valuable compared to other metals like, say, plutonium. But you can bury it in the ground for thousands of years and it doesn't change.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Poker_Star
platinum is more rare and pretty god damn tough if that is what you are looking for.

Methshot
Methshot

because the entire history of humanity is more important than what some shitstain thinks about gold

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@cum2soon
but really boron is where it's at 9/10 hardness on mohs scale extremely rare on cosmic scale why the fuck are we not making money out of it?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@TalkBomber
This. Back in the day there was no other material that was like this. Also its distinct colour meant it could be used to flaunt wealth.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@TalkBomber
not to mention you can alloy it to increase the hardness.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

Force of habit maybe, it's always been regarded throughout history as a wealth standard.

It IS rare, regardless of what OP says
It is useful in computing technology
It is extremely malleable and dense
It is fungible.
It doesn't corrode ever.

That said, Silver is even rarer than gold these days, and it is even more useful in industry and computing, though it does corrode.

Silver is massively undervalued to be honest.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@happy_sad
Over 90% of those hundred billion tons is in the core of the earth. Good luck mining that.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@CodeBuns
true.
of the remaining ~10%, almost all of it is dissolved in the oceans. Good luck mining that as well.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@MPmaster
dissolved in the oceans. Good luck mining that

Electrolysis.
Tidal/wind/solar energy.
Why aren't we doing this?

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@DeathDog

I am a gold hoarder and also a futures trader who trades mostly gold. Gold has several unique properties that make it ideal as a store of value.

1. It is universally recognized as being valuable by every peoples who have come in contact with it. Even before the Inca and the Spaniards made contact in the new world, they both recognized gold as being of value in their respective cultures even though it had no functional use.

2. Gold has unique physical properties such as its density that much it harder to fake. It also doesn't deteriorate or tarnish over time like other metals and materials do.

3. Gold requires resources to mine and pull it out of the earth, which limits the supply and ensures its value. Similar to how bitcoin requires solving increasingly complex algorithms.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Firespawn
your anodes and cathodes would cost more than the gold you'd harvest, you'd have to alter the chemistry of the ocean to make it work, most of what you'd get is base metals, and it would kill every living thing in the ocean and eventually the planet.

also the price of gold is dependent on its rarity, so if you produce millions of tons of it from the core or an asteroid or the oceans you'll flood the market, drop the price, and bankrupt yourself for your efforts.

look at the history of aluminum. It used to be rarer and more valuable than gold.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

Gold is redeemable in sex. Jewlery is how men won over women since we invented it.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@DeathDog
Gold can be used as a conductor in electric components I think. So, it's useful and people use it so some people need it for things that they want to make.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@DeathDog
Because it's rare and shiny.

5mileys
5mileys

@DeathDog
What's wrong with "it's shiny" being a reason to assign something value?

Go find a gold nugget and tell me it doesn't put a big fucking smile on your face.

askme
askme

@CodeBuns
depends on how you define core it's not a tranquil little ball of hot metal. gold comes pretty close to the surface often enough.

massdebater
massdebater

@LuckyDusty
Silver is massively undervalued to be honest.
i agree, that is why i bought when it was $15

Methnerd
Methnerd

@DeathDog
Gold has unique properties:

- its malleable enough to where you can make interesting jewelry out of it
-it has a VERY LOW oxidation(rust) rate
- it is often used in electonics because of the above

as for why its valuable otherwise; its a semi rare mineral that was used as a replacement for the barter system . If we were to go back to the barter system it would fundamentally change business

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Methnerd
This. It's used a ton in electronics. Gold plated connectors, gold plated PCB's, ... PCB's use copper (which is also expensive albeit not as expensive as gold) for the conductive traces, but copper corrodes. Hence some plating of the PCB is required. This can be done with HASL which is basically a solder coating of the PCB or through gold plating. HASL is not suitable for fine pitch components and BGAs (ballg grid arrays) because it is difficult to get an even plating.

As for connectors it's basically the same thing except connectors get extra wear through repeated insertion. Gold is pretty durable in the sense that the conductivity is very high and therefore the contact between two connectors is much better.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@DeathDog
As Jim Rogers puts it: It is valuable because of the psychology of investors (yes I know there's some industrial uses for gold, but they are not the mean reason), there's no reason for giving privileges to gold over other commodities.

TechHater
TechHater

@LuckyDusty
is silver actually rarer though?
like is there more silver on earth than gold?

i love gold
pic related its my gold

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@TechHater
Yes. It is rarer and from the industry point of view more useful, plus in most of its applications silver is irreplaceable.

FastChef
FastChef

Best conductor that's stable. Is easiest to manipulate which allows crazy applications.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

Because people agree that it is valuable

Nojokur
Nojokur

@BinaryMan
Update
just researched it, silver is 17.5x more abundant in the earths crust, just more gold is mined.

that doesnt mean silver is rarer than gold, it just means people want it less (because its more abundant and not as quite as interesting)

Inmate
Inmate

@Nojokur
silver is rare right now because mining was unprofitable due to suppressed price (it's pushed down every day like clockwork by market manipulators).

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@TechHater
Man I love gold coins. Truly lustworthy.

DeathDog
DeathDog

http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Investor-Z/Chapter-154?id=322844

Even chinese comics know it user

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@TechHater
ooh, gold show-off thread? i'm in!

here's my baby. 20 ounces. only 6027 were minted to commemorate 20 years of Vienna Philharmoic bullion coins. Bought it in 2009 at EUR ~15.5k (14k gold + 10% mark-up). Today the gold alone is over EUR 23k. Not that I'm planning to sell or anything...

i'm a coin collector and as such i usually pass on bullion, but this was just too good of an opportunity. i'm in it for the fun mostly, not really trying to make a profit. my collection is over 2 kg of gold, which would be a stupidly high % of my portfolio if i treated it as an investment.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@VisualMaster
You could probably exploit other commodities from that as well. Like electrolysing ship hulls off and selling them back to the shipyard, atom by atom.

@TechHater
Silver is way way way more useful. It's used in electronics because it's malleable and has high conductivity.

likme
likme

@DeathDog
Just convince everyone that bottle caps are a mch better currency and that worked out great in Fallout.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Carnalpleasure
(in the middle ages only kings had gold because it looked fancy af)
How about golden coins?

Nojokur
Nojokur

@DeathDog
Try google nigger. Gold is the standard of wealth because its shiny, malleable, is notoriously unreactive so can be stored for long periods as well as rare.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Crazy_Nice
gold show off
people in biz are broke as fuck user, probably only a few have gold collections.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@happy_sad
Well if it was too rare then it wouldnt be much good as currency if nobody had any

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Methnerd
Not true. Gold was deemed valuable independently by every developing civilization

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Ignoramus
Gold is bright yellow. Pretty easy to tell the difference between a gold nugget and a lump of rock. You cant expect a 2nd century farmer to discern boron from other grey rocks

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

Gold and Silver will be more valuable in the near future because a lot of countries are doing away with physical cash.

Gold and Silver are the only logical replacements for buying and selling illegal drugs, not buttcoin.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@kizzmybutt
doing away with cash
in the near future
Not in your lifetime bub

Methnerd
Methnerd

@DeathDog
It's durable, its supply cannot be radically increased easily, historically had minimal use other than to be valuable, and its an element so cutting it in half nearly infinite times doesn't destroy it. plus it can be recombined.

...plus it's rare. makes sense to me. if not, give a better example as a STORAGE of wealth.

FastChef
FastChef

@BinaryMan
Gold is rare and looks good, therefore it was universally considered valuable.
See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones
Same thing. Rocks that look good and are made of rare material.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@DeathDog

Gold is fucking useless to me. The only reason to have it is because somewhere some schmuck will give me things I actually want for it because we wants a pretty teacup or whatever.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Garbage Can Lid
diamonds
rare
Someone hasn't done their research...

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

Flesh of the gods

Evilember
Evilember

@TreeEater
we mine far more gold every year than we do diamonds.

nice job falling for the contrarian counterpropaganda though. Monopolies are bad, huh? and you're super smart because you'd never buy diamonds! You're very clever.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Evilember
we mine far more gold every year than we do diamonds.
By design, because the monopoly you mentioned has artificially inflated the price of diamonds by limiting their mining and production.

nice job falling for the contrarian counterpropaganda though
Monopolies are bad, huh?
and you're super smart because you'd never buy diamonds! You're very clever.
OH, you're shilling for De Beers! Carry on, then - sorry to cut into your commission.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@AwesomeTucker
the monopoly you mentioned has artificially inflated the price of diamonds by limiting their mining and production.
kek

google how many kimberlite pipes exist in the world, "research" guy.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

Here's a very interesting documentary The Secret World of Gold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt7hTCeoXUM

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@CodeBuns
As far as I'm seeing we (that is, the human race) keep finding more and more sources of diamonds every year and have been since the 1870's. The discovery of kimberlite pipes has increased the world's source of diamonds, not limited it.

And guess who owns every single mine and kimberlite pipe worthy of commercial production?

So how are diamonds still expensive as fuck if our source of gemstone diamonds has only every increased and the number of countries producing gemstone diamonds is ever-expanding?

Congratulations, Mr. Shill - you got me to go on a wild goose chase after information I already had. Go ahead - I'm waiting for more "You don't know what your talking about!" shilling.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@DeathDog
Why is gold valueable?
Most iconic of the noble metals, doesn't form a patina , so doesn't tarnish with age, your gold statue will look the same one day from now or 100000+years from now

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Nude_Bikergirl
no, it's ok.
having worked in both gold mines and diamond mines I know you're full of shit because:
1. constantly expanding production doesn't mean it's not rare. Going from 2 working diamond mines to 200 still makes them about 1000 times less common than gold mines.

2. diamonds are significantly more expensive to mine because we can't just dissolve them, crush them up and melt them, or crush them up and float them.

but I get tired of you being an idiot just to defend your previous idiocy. It would be cool if you came up with some outrageous new stupidity, but honestly your arguments are pathetic and not entertaining. So I'm going to cut you loose.

unless you can think of something REALLY stupid to say, then I'll keep reading.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@kizzmybutt
you're wrong because you're stupid
p-please buy more diamonds
Sure thing, pal. Sure thing.

So I'm going to cut you loose.
So in one breath you keep going on about how I'm wrong, yet graciously "cut me loose". Doesn't look like I'm so wrong if you're giving up that easy.

But hey I get it - kids that aren't yours to feed, miserable wife to please, non-existant sex life to get back to...you go get 'em tiger!
;^)

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Spamalot
Silver has more uses and industrial application

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Evilember
De beer's artificially inflated diamond prices by hoarding diamonds and diamond mines for literal centuries with their monopoly, you don't know shit

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@LuckyDusty
so now that their monopoly is broken we're mining more diamonds than gold?

Last year the world produced 135.5m carats of gem diamonds, which is 60k lbs.

we mined 6 million lbs of gold.

We mined 100 times more gold than diamonds. And gold is considered rare. By any definition gem diamonds are even more rare by orders of magnitude.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@PurpleCharger
We mined 100 times more gold than diamonds.
Again, by design. Looking at production numbers doesn't change the fact that De Beers is sitting on untouched sources of diamonds to artificially keep the price of their product high.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

The fuctionality of gold is purely astral. Now before you nay say grab a piece of metal and pretend it's like your hand and then pretend your body is like the metal. It's cross transferrence of electrical energy.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@PurpleCharger
Last year the world produced 135.5m carats of gem diamonds, which is 60k lbs.
Gem diamonds are shit, they make up less than 20% of all diamonds produced, most is industrial diamonds used for cutting and abrasion

And implying gem diamonds produced is the same as raw diamond mined is akin to declaring the tonnage of wooden furniture produced yearly is equal to total timber harvest
A raw material is not the same thing as a finished good

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@LuckyDusty
the world is a pretty big place, are you sure they have literally every diamond mine in the entire world

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Crazy_Nice
ok, so just taking your word for it,
total diamond production would be 300k lbs counting industrial diamonds

vs. 6000k lbs of gold. Still not even close.

WebTool
WebTool

@Crazy_Nice
And implying gem diamonds produced is the same as raw diamond mined is
I said gem diamonds MINED, not produced.

they weigh them before they're cut, too.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Garbage Can Lid
You are wrong.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@DeathDog
because it's rare
Supply

because it's shiny
Demand

You answered your own question.

Dumbarse etc.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@happy_sad
All the gold we have dug fits a 30x30 meter cube

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Stupidasole
it's absurdly dense though.
I think a ton of gold fits in a cube of just over 1 foot per side.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Need_TLC
19.30 g/cm3
I'm not calculating that though

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Need_TLC
@SniperWish
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100805025053AAvfLwB

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@StonedTime

No, you are wrong. See what I did there? Any 12 year old can say "no, you are wrong" but it doesn't mean shit unless you can give evidence to back up your statement.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@DeathDog
Not easy to find, durable, easily breaks down into smaller parts, etc

Gold is the ideal upon which all other currencies are based, and if all other currencies fail, gold will always be there

Gold is our friend

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@DeathDog
Because you have to pay for machines, employees, energy n shiet.

It's extremely expensive to get fresh gold

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

An oz of gold had roughly the same spending power in ancient Rome as it does today.

Thus gold is money because it is an effective store of value

The same can not be said about the US dollar, which loses 2% of its value every year, and its value is only determined by faith in the US government

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