Clinton v Trump Economic Plans

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

Which candidate has the best and most efficient means of boosting the American economy?

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/economy

https://www.thebalance.com/hillary-clinton-2016-economic-plan-3305767

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/economy
https://www.thebalance.com/hillary-clinton-2016-economic-plan-3305767
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2016/01/12/investing-in-america-by-restoring-basic-fairness-to-our-tax-code/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
http://clintontrumpforex.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgicDQHbV3M
http://fortune.com/2015/06/26/fracking-manufacturing-costs/
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/agricultural/
http://lme.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNTwYQGeWow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCabT_O0YSM
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-09-03/should-donald-trump-have-indexed-)
http://archive.is/aefO9
http://archive.is/T7u8p
http://archive.is/JuVJp
http://archive.is/g0Vq5
http://archive.is/HLRIz
http://archive.is/m9PCR
http://archive.is/ficX6
http://archive.is/JOlTt
http://archive.is/0igxb
http://archive.is/ZeuQX
http://archive.is/MdITh
http://archive.is/s0HPZ
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/low-paid-illegal-work-force-has-little-impact-on-prices/
https://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2010/03/pdf/cost_of_deportation_execsumm.pdf
Snarelure
Snarelure

Clinton

Skullbone
Skullbone

Clinton

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Snarelure
Cuck

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Snarelure
@Skullbone

Why?

askme
askme

@Emberburn
running status quo, which is going to fuck everything up soon enough

trump on the other hand promotes isolationism, "bring back muh factory" mentality which is only going to end in raising tariffs, higher costs, a trade war with china and slashing taxes which is going to put more pressure on the US budget

Inmate
Inmate

@askme
don't forget less pollution.

likme
likme

Why is this even being asked?

Just about every economist and businessman worth a shit is for Hillary.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

Thanks for correcting the record goys

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

Trump

im a tradesman and i have a business on the side

i give ZERO FUCKS about the economy at large. Hillary would raise taxes on me = vote for trump

also @likme

lol the dumb-ass economists sure did A BANG UP JOB over the past decade huh

Techpill
Techpill

@Snarelure
@Skullbone
@Emberburn
Hi CTR!

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Evil_kitten
Doesn't matter, neither will be able to pass any of it.

You Yanks forget for some reason that your country was set up to give very little real power to the president. It was this very deliberate thing that the founding fathers set up and congress and the president have been trying to make you forget ever since.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Poker_Star
i give ZERO FUCKS about the economy at large.
buttmad when people can't afford to buy his shit in a crisis

kek, quality post my friend

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

I have a shit memory but even I can remember the donalds tax plan: hes going to lower taxes BIG LEAGE; shes going to raise taxes BIG LEAGUE

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Methnerd
The President directs a lot of Congress's business and sets the term agendas.

While the President doesn't have much domestic power, she has a lot of domestic influence.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

Gary Johnson

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Techpill
asks why Hillary's economic plan is better than Trumps
gets called ctr

Fuck off

massdebater
massdebater

Neither is perfect. Clinton is the usual spend spend spend spend Democrat, who will keep things pretty much as they are now and have been the past 8 years, but will also raise taxes on everyone, making the Middle class hurt more.

She'll make college and healthcare free, which will drive up the debt, and get into war with russia, which will most certainly break our bank, as well as irradiate large portions of the country.

Trump Meanwhile, will slash taxes across the board, and impose trade tariffs on American Companies that make their goods outside of the US. he'll probably deregulate and offer corporate tax incentives to get those companies to bring production back here.

on the other hand, his tax slashing will probably starve the govt.

the ideal solution is a strategic mix of both higher taxes, (taxes go up proportionally to your income) AND deregulation/corporate tax incentives, with a sprinkling of protectionist tariff

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@massdebater
the gov makes more than enough let alone from taxes

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Poker_Star
Those businessmen run the economy mate, even if they do fuck up
Everybody thinks they can do a better job for some reason

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Evil_kitten
Corporate or overall? Trump's tax cuts are massive, benefits investors. But the health of the country would do better under Clinton who'll blow up the debt less.
@massdebater
taxes on the middle class
She only wants tax raises for those above 250k.

drive up debt
Unfortunately yes, but it's an easy choice, even the most conservative estimates say Trump will do worse for the debt. Under Clinton it's 80% of GDP, under trump 100%

Trump tax cuts
Which he has not adequately explained how he's going to pay for, under than a vague statement about reducing bureaucracy

tariffs on American companies producing outside the US
He can't do that. He can only tariff things coming in the US. Most of the big corporations sell to global markets. I'm not sure if he considered it would also drive imports of raw materials needed for factories up.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Evil_kitten
Shilling aside and bias aside. If I am an elementary school teacher and I dont make that much as it is, I cannot afford for things to sky rocket up. But I also want to make sure I can keep my job and afford to live just fine. Which presidential candidate offers more to me as a middle class elementary teacher?

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Carnalpleasure
taxes = economy
mouth breather detected

happy_sad
happy_sad

@kizzmybutt
She only wants tax raises for those above 250k

Because historically rich people always pay their taxes, right?

Illusionz
Illusionz

@happy_sad
tax raise by how much? 0.0001% tax raise is still a tax raise. Fuck that lying cunt. At least trump knows how to run a business and he might run your shitty country like a business and perhaps make it great again?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Poker_Star
Funny, as a member of the working poor. I have no choice but to vote for Hillary or starve. We can vote opposite and be cancel twins.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Illusionz
"Trump KNOWs how to run a business",lol?

askme
askme

@askme
Who gives a shit about China? Nuke beijing send the entirety of the United States Armed Forces to wipe out Chinese industry. You will force the world to buy American. Stop being a faggot pussy

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Sharpcharm
she

Inmate
Inmate

@askme
trump on the other hand promotes isolationism, "bring back muh factory" mentality which is only going to end in raising tariffs, higher costs, a trade war with china and slashing taxes which is going to put more pressure on the US budget
that sounds fucking awesome

I don't know why people pretend there's any way to give the economy a stimulus and creat jobs other than lowering taxes. Trump's tax cuts for the middle class and small businesses would be God tier

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@massdebater
on the other hand, his tax slashing will probably starve the govt.
on the other hand, his tax slashing will be extremely successful on all fronts
BASED
A
S
E
D

Methshot
Methshot

@Inmate
Because what about muh low-class spics and niggers. Who's gonna pay for their welfare?

Because I can guarantee you it WON'T be the higher-class.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Methshot
Who's gonna pay for their welfare?
you wont need to if you strip out the minimum wage and reduce taxes on small businesses to next to nothing

let cities partner with non-profit organizations that help the poor and homeless to incentivize businesses to give them cheap labor. Works in the shithole cities where I live in NY

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Sharpcharm
We could always just kick them out.

Evilember
Evilember

@Emberburn
doesn't want cheap labor actually stimulating local economies

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Evilember
I like to prioritize the locals and not just the few that profit off of the cheap labor.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Emberburn
We could always just kick them out.
Yea kick out all these hombres kek

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@happy_sad
He has over 500 businesses ya retard.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@askme
You will force the world to buy American

and who will buy your overpriced shit? Unless you lower your costs via internal devaluation the only people that will be able to afford american services will be the EU, which is rejecting your shit trade agreements

@Inmate
lowering taxes for middle class and small businesses is never a bad thing, but when you're running a budget deficit and debt-gdp ratio over 100%, you're facing a problem, petrodollar notwithstanding. Honestly, whoever is elected is going to have to face the next recession and IMF has already said that the next recession will probably end in most of the involved countries defaulting.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

Trump wants to make the US a third world manufacturing country because his base is a bunch of no-skill, retarded hicks.

Clinton will continue to promote globalist ideals, at the expense of the aforementioned no-skill, retarded hicks.

So ask yourself, are you a no-skill, retarded hick, or do you have what it takes to survive in the global economy?

This isn't /pol/. There is no debate about this from an economical perspective.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

trump in the long term

Flameblow
Flameblow

@New_Cliche
I'm not American stupid nigger

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@CodeBuns
I don't get why people are so eager to disparage blue collar whites, who are at least hard working if not intellectually gifted. Spic/Nigger wellfare queens and hoodlums on the other hand are protected classes

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@ZeroReborn
defends hard-working whites
disparages "spics"

You're too stupid to live.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@CodeBuns
muh hard working spic meme
get out of my country, taconigger

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@whereismyname
To be fair the Hispanics that do work; work just as hard as whites. Based on my personal experiences and others I know.

Blacks on the other hand...

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Inmate
Yea because the 60's 70s and 80's are so well known for their lack of pollution

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Deadlyinx
Probably Clinton, honestly. You wouldn't care about the estate tax hike and assuming you teach public school the increased spending would offset the slight tax increase for your bracket and (I'm assuming) the increase in medicare deductions.

Trump's plan would straight up lower tax, but depending how heavily he relies on debt it's hard to say how your salary would change. His trade proposals wouldn't benefit you as you don't work in the industrial sector, but it probably won't benefit you either (e.g. might cause recession).

FastChef
FastChef

POTUS can raise or lower taxes unilaterally, without Congressional approval
fucking hell, this site is dumb

w8t4u
w8t4u

@ZeroReborn

Shut up, redneck. Working class southern whites are among the dumbest people on the planet. The American South is a cesspool of idiots left behind by the global economy, too stupid to figure out new skills.

I bet you're voting Trump. Yes yes, I'm sure the billionaire globalist will bring your shit-tier manufacturing jobs back.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

Clinton definitely.

Trickle down economics should work, in theory. But it only works *if* businesses use tax deductions to create jobs. They can also choose to hoard it.

Trickle down economics requires a coalition. Trump hasn't told us of a single CEO whose pledged to hire more people if we lowers his taxes. We don't know what companies will hire, in what industries, for what titles and and what the pay is. We don't know if the new jobs are permanent or temporary positions.

What we do know, is that a lot of poor people work at and buy their shit at Walmart.

If Trump wins and lowers taxes on the rich and raises taxes on goods made in China and assembled in Mexico, then straight out the gate he's *increasing* rather than decreasing the wage gap, while simultaneously taking revenue *away* from social services even though more people will need social services.

And he's doing this based on faith/hope/assumption that the wealthy will create jobs with their tax deductions and give away all the money Trump just gave them.

***
Or.

We could elect Clinton. Who wants to jack up taxes on the Waltons and their giant bloated corporation. And use that money to send the staff and customer base of Walmart to college and trade school so they can get better jobs.

***
Trump wants to spend about $100 billion on one giant new wall. Paid for by Mexico who in turn refuses to pay.

Clinton wants to spend about $100 billion repairing existing roads and bridges. Paid for by the Waltons. Who are stuck here and whose businesses are stuck here and who won't uproot and move businesses away in defiance because they have shareholders and an obligation to shareholders to increase revenue.

***
Is /pol/ still in here?

Come at me you little toys. Accuse me of being with CTR. Debate with paranoia and memes rather than substance. This has been a great strategy why just look at those polls.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@happy_sad
They take out hefty deductions, yes. It's probably better than outright saying you want to cut taxes.
@Illusionz
Her plans are on her site. The most important one is a 30% minimum effective tax rate on incomes above 1 million aka the Buffett tax, which means loopholes and deductions don't affect it.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2016/01/12/investing-in-america-by-restoring-basic-fairness-to-our-tax-code/

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Sir_Gallonhead
Look man I too think voting for Trump is suicidal but I call bullshit on Clinton taxing "the Waltons" who dont even run Wal-Mart anymore

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Booteefool
Sure that's fine. I just threw their name out to illustrate a point.

We're not gonna lower the wage gap by lowering taxes on the rich and jacking up taxes on imports.

That's just gonna make Walmart and Target cut back on new job openings, cut back on hours for existing job openings, and raise prices on literally everything.

massdebater
massdebater

@King_Martha
This is why my candidate should win.
But this event is just made up, and theoretical.

The embodiment of delusional...

Btw dipshit, Clinton is a bought out, corrupt, globalist sociopath, she will run the world into the ground.

With that being said, its going that way regardless of who wins.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@massdebater
You're focusing on a very minute point. You're being deliberately obtuse and distracting the conversation with trivia.

If taxes for CEOs and corporations is lowered, while raising taxes on goods imported from China and Mexico, resulting in lower hours and higher inflation ... how will this fix the wage gap?

It won't. Trump will increase the wage gap.

The wage gap prohibits banks from funding small business loans. It stifles commerce. It keeps people from seeking health care services. It holds us back.

Every small business owner will tell you, they don't want tax cuts, they want customers. The wage gap stifles customers.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Sir_Gallonhead
how do you force businesses to create jobs and put back into the economy rather than horde?

Firespawn
Firespawn

@massdebater
surplus and staying out of debt is more important than great healthcare and education for those who cannot afford it themselves
This is by far, the most FLAWED liberal argument. So fucking stupid. It's a vicious cycle! No wonder you're in an economic shithole. Fuck your country for making Malcolm imitate your economic policy. We were doing fine.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Evil_kitten

Hillary

viagrandad
viagrandad

@CodeBuns
30% minimum effective tax rate on incomes above 1 million
finally become millionaire
haha no just kidding you only have $700,000
what a fucking joke of a worldview. Anything higher than 20% is unreasonable at any level of money
should be
20% at $1 mil+
15% at $300k+
10% below that
and starting at $30k gradually reduce the rate to a flat 0 at $20k

happy_sad
happy_sad

@King_Martha
by lowering taxes on the rich and jacking up taxes on imports.
no, but you will by lowering taxes on everybody and jacking up taxes on imported good made by american companies

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@happy_sad
You're on the Veeky Forums board. Not /pol/

Anyone here with a lick of business sense will tell you that some 24 year old kid with a $35,000/year call center job doesn't want me 2% more on his tax return while prices grow by 35%. A 24 year old kid with a $35,000/year call center job wants the opportunity to get a better education and wants at least $50k/year and would rather make $100k/year helping put together new roads and bridges while inflation stays flat.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@StrangeWizard
that's a weird dichotomy; why do you assume that tax cuts leads to more inflation whereas muh free college and muh roads doesn't?

it's a completely delusional mindset

Flameblow
Flameblow

@viagrandad
marginal tax rate 80% at $1 mil+

debate me

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Supergrass
This isn't delusional. I'll explain again.

Trump wants to do two things. Lower taxes for millionaires and corporations by 35%, and raise taxes on goods imported from China and Mexico by 35%.

Now we already know that if you lower taxes for millionaires and corporations, they *don't* create jobs with the savings. They hoard the money. Reagan proved this, Bush confirmed this.

So there won't be any new jobs, at least none worth pursuing.

But. You couple the failed concept of Reaganomics trickle down theory, with a huge increase on goods imported from China and Mexico and sold in Walmart and Target. And to be perfectly frank, everywhere else as well.

You do this and what. You think that corporations will be like "oh well hey we just got a tax cut so I guess we can eat it at the shipping docks" - you think they'll say this?

You think they'll be like "oh hey how about we admit we were wrong about China and uproot everything and just make factory jobs here" - you *really* think they'll say this?

Remember they have shareholders demanding (and deserving) big returns every quarter.

So. No.

Trump raises import taxes and all that's gonna happen is costs of every good sold in every store, every piece of steel, every car, every bottle of medicine .. all of it, is going up 35%.

Under Trump we'd experience a wider wage gap. Which decreases the size and influence of the middle class. Which fucks our economy.

Corporations pay no taxes. Prices go up at Walmart while hours get cut.

It's a bad fucking idea. Every major economist in the world agrees with me on this.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

Trickle-down only works when you've got something the wealthy can spend their cash on. There's no point in giving the wealthy more money if it's still not palatable to invest domestically. There's ways in which Trump's plan could work but you'd need to be very careful the order in which you do things.

Meanwhile: tax & spend makes the government look really productive, which people like, but makes the economy less liquid, which harms businesses that can't depend on foreign markets to prop up sales. Hillary Clinton? Making economic decisions that favour multinational corporations over small domestic businesses? Well, I never. Scandalous.

They are both pretty meh, but Donald's is a more downbeat meh.

Methshot
Methshot

Trump.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Sir_Gallonhead
i thought CTR was just a joke. I now believe the CTR is real.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Boy_vs_Girl
have no choice but to vote for Hillary or starve.
Exactly what the democrats have been doing for decades. Get people dependent on the government so they can control everything.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Sir_Gallonhead
The wall is about 10 billion dollars

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

Economy won't really matter once the US is turned into a nuclear wasteland.

who /investinginbottlecappressers/ here

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

short term? clinton, of course.

long term (next 50-100 years)? trump.

medicine tastes bad when it's in the form of a short term recession, but you still gotta take it.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Stark_Naked
trickle down theory
No such thing.

Trump raises import taxes and all that's gonna happen is costs of every good sold in every store, every piece of steel, every car, every bottle of medicine .. all of it, is going up 35%
First, America still makes things; there's no increase on prices from such things. Second, he specifically mentioned Mexico in that regard. Third, even if was in general, that'd encourage domestic manufacturing which absorbs the unemployed and people not currently in the labor force and turns them into taxable sources of demand.

Every major economist in the world agrees with me on this.
Nice bandwagon fallacy.

likme
likme

@Methshot
@Carnalpleasure

/pol/

and stay there

hairygrape
hairygrape

@StrangeWizard
24 year old kid with a $35,000/year call center job doesn't want me 2% more on his tax return while prices grow by 35%
His biggest budget items are housing, transportation, and food, none of which are going to be affected to the extent you indicate.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Evil_kitten
Clinton, without doubt

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Soft_member
trickle down doesn't exist
This meme has to end, trickle down is a term originating during Regan's era that describes his policy of lowering taxes to stimulate the economy.

America makes such things
Hah, what? Look at the label of anything in your house. It's not made in the US. The few things that are use raw materials from other countries. This is an economic reality that tariff supporters don't want to accept.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@likme
they disagree with me therefore they're from pol

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Poker_Star

You won't have customers or business when the economy tanks

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@StonedTime
This meme has to end
2 seconds in google: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics

There is no "trickle down" economics as defined by economists
The term originated in United States politics.[4]:27–8 It has been attributed to humorist Will Rogers, who said during the Great Depression that "money was all appropriated for the top in hopes that it would trickle down to the needy."

TL;DR, It's just leftists mindlessly regurgitating what they hear from their "news" sources--that is to say, comedians.

Look at the label of anything in your house. It's not made in the US
Hmm, seeing a lot of "made in America," weird. Although, even a rudimentary knowledge of the US economy would tell you that, pic related.

This is an economic reality that tariff supporters don't want to accept.
The economic reality that free traders don't want to accept and go through great contortions to avoid admitting is that no nations have ever been built upon themselves using free trade--despite tremendous effort by free traders. Every single great or noteworthy nation has gotten there through protectionism at some point.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Spazyfool
The idea we would still be trapping beavers and trading cloth for tobacco with the natives without protectionism seems like a bit of a meme to me.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Lunatick
oy vey op is a putz

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Lunatick
No, we wouldn't because there's this thing called "technological advancement." However, free trade breeds dependency and without our few hundred years of protectionism, we would have been, and still would be totally dependent on the British economically. Instead, while Britain adopted free trade theory in the 1800s, America and Germany under protectionism soared past the British economically.

The original plan as espoused by free traders negotiating with Japan (which was economically worse than many African nations at the time) following WWII was for japan to 'specialize' in fishing and export tuna to the US while Japan would import US cars. As we know, Japan gave them a big ol' "fuck you," totally rejected free trade and protected its industry, and is now a globally important economic and export powerhouse. Japan rejected becoming a nation of fishing villages and it worked out wonderfully for them.

viagrandad
viagrandad

and to think i presumed this board to be free from the shills blight

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@viagrandad

This board may be mostly Republican/conservative, but it isn't full of retarded deadbeats like /pol/.

Techpill
Techpill

@Lunatick
One slide.

farquit
farquit

Trump knows how to create and stick to budgets.
Trump knows how to delegate to the right people.

Clinton's entire career has been a clusterfuck of incompetence.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

According to this site Clinton has better chance to win:

http://clintontrumpforex.com/

Flameblow
Flameblow

I read Trumps 100 day proposal

I really like it, hes cleaning up infrastructure, putting billions into tax cuts for people to build properties, which will provide jobs and better infrastructure

His whole removal of lobbyists will help a lot with corruption in the government

Nojokur
Nojokur

>>1582723
Thanks for contributing.

Illusionz
Illusionz

No one seems to have posted this, so here goes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgicDQHbV3M

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@farquit
Dude he's declared bankruptcy what .. how many times?

You know how many times Clinton declared bankruptcy? 0. You know how many times I declared bankruptcy? 0.

You know why people declare bankruptcy? Spending more than they have.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Need_TLC
lel

Either CTR, or more likely, an ebin troll pretending to be CTR for easy (You)s detected

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Evil_kitten
Of course. There is technology, climate, stability, population, urbanizaton, natural resources, ease of transportation and access to world markets, lots of things. Trade policy is a minor factor yet you treat it like the sole determining factor that made Japan, Germany and America and broke Britain.

Also mercantilism, high tariffs and protectionism was the norm, plenty of countries were protectionist and did not develop much industry.

'specialize' in fishing and export tuna to the US while Japan would import US cars
Again, this is an exaggeration like the idea we'd still be trading pelts.

@Techpill
This doesn't into account all the effects of these policies. You raise tariffs on steel and now a dozen other businesses must pay higher prices for steel. You build a ton of roads because they look good on paper, but in reality they will erode before the economic benefits outweigh the costs.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Need_TLC
You know how many times Clinton declared bankruptcy? 0. You know how many times I declared bankruptcy? 0.
So you vote for Hillary because you're successful? SHILLARY CONFIRMED TO SERVE THE RICH!!!

eGremlin
eGremlin

@TalkBomber
Luckily that was never our policy, and isn't Trump's policy.

Illusionz
Illusionz

Vote Hillary if you're doing good and you want little change.

Vote Trump if you want to enforce major changes. If a populist gains power in the world's most important economy, things are gonna change big time.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@TalkBomber
Trade policy is a minor factor
It really isn't. All these third world countries which have been scammed into embracing free trade under the Washington Consensus will never, I repeat, *never* become an industrialized first world nation under that system. They will be perpetually dependent on hand outs because they have no industries that can compete with the superior infrastructure of the west and free traders say subsidies and tariffs are bad. This just produces a negative reflexive cycle of dependency where they import basic things from the west because they can't compete due to a lack of efficient infrastructure or equipment. It reinforces poverty in these countries and they will *never* climb out through free trade.

On the other hand, if they rejected free trade, subsidized efficient infrastructure and equipment to bring down the cost of domestically produced goods while imposing tariffs on goods to bring in tax revenue and support industry, they can evolve toward becoming a major economy.

mercantilism
Who's talking about mercantilism? What, do you think mercantilist nations were the only ones with protectionism? You also realize that mercantilism purposefully oppressed the working class, right?

this is an exaggeration
No, that's literally what free traders prescribed--that Japan 'specialize' in fishing because they had a 'comparative advantage' in it. This is not unlike when the world bank pushed Malawi into ending agriculture subsidies, 'specializing' in a cash crop, and importing food with the money earned; this just led to a famine in Malawi which only ended after Malawi subsidized fertilizer again, deeper than ever which then yielded a fantastic following crop harvest. A similar kind of delusional idealism led to the great famine of Ireland.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@TurtleCat
How many of them went bankrupt?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Evil_kitten
I'll bite

TechHater
TechHater

@Evil_kitten
Trump's policies would cause a DEPRESSION.

That's all you need to know.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@hairygrape

You seem to know quite a lot, that differentiates your reasoning from the average Trump supporter.

Consider the following: the US isn't a developing economy, it's THE economy in the world. And now it's supposed to regress into a state where a huge chunk of the population does menial factory jobs, making shoes, gluing electronics together, dragging car tires across unsafe factory floors?

Because that's what Chinese and Mexicans do. And they do it for pennies. It's still an improvement for them. But would it be an improvement for Americans to do these jobs and buy the things they produce at far higher prices?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

Who would Trump's tax plan benefit?

Hint: Not you.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@hairygrape

The reason the Japanese developed well as manufacturing exporter is because in the 50-60s, manufacturing jobs were top-notch jobs. They didn't downgrade their industrial complexity, they upgraded it. The Chinese also need to upgrade their industrial complexity now, if they ever want to reach Western wages and living standards.

What you suggest for the US is a downgrade in complexity.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@CouchChiller
shit nigga don't let that graph stop you from voting trump, i can lend you those 12 dollars if you really need them

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@TechHater
One causes stagnation possibly -1% growth. One causes great depression, fuck this election and country man.

Lets just go full China, fuck the environment and blow this mother up, 10% growth baby.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Illusionz
The change Obama promised?

Obama was worse than bush in many many aspects but most importantly starting wars.

more innocent ppl were killed during Obamas administration than under Bush. Havent you ever seen those anti smoking ads that say >"Obama kills more people in a day than cigarettes"

Check your facts and voting hillary would just be Obama 2.0

and youre a RETARD if you think than nigger was a good president. Power of the media tho, so strong it makes you blind to the truth and its really powerful in united shits of america

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Nude_Bikergirl

Eeeeeeh. What are you trying to say by this?

I said Hillary won't (!) change much.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Evil_kitten
ClLINTON: Federal economy goes way up (America had 0 debt in the 90's under Bill Clinton) but local economy remains same.

TRUMP: (Rich celebrity with no political experience, same as Regan) Federal economy goes further into debt, but more local jobs are created.

JOHNSON: Local economy skyrockets now that people have less money being taken by government. Federal economy goes up slowly, if at all.

STIEN: World economy (including local and federal) goes up due to surplus in renewable energy. Oxegen levels also increase, making people healthier, happier, and more productive.

Jill Stien is the logical choice. America needs to make money on a federal level and renewable energy is perfect in terms of global demand. I'm voting for her, but Bill Clinton was also one of my favorite presidents because he's a genius at balancing checkbooks and the 90's were pretty laid back under him. Gary Johnson would ensure that we see money in our pockets the fastest, but he doesn't believe in federal spending for renewable energy. Trump's a fascist and will ruin the federal economy but at least fascism creates jobs.

I'm voting for Jill Stien, but I wouldn't mind seeing Bill Clinton back in the White House. Gary Johnson would be cool too.

girlDog
girlDog

@Crazy_Nice
She wont change much but Trump wont change much either. The problem with "democracy" is that the people you cant elect are the ones that call the shots and make the big decisions. "democracy" is just another excuse for NATO to invade opium/oil-rich "non-democratic" countries and have leverage for their stupid uneducated populations to support a war that would get 0 support if the government was more transparent and honest

5mileys
5mileys

@girlDog

I do think Trump will change quite a things, because it'll be a signal to the financial elites that they can't continue business as usual, because people are really fed up.

A happy, secure population wouldn't elect a controversial protest candidate. That's the signal.

And I do believe that democracy can be real. But you have to continue fighting for it, casting a vote twice a decade isn't enough.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@eGremlin
And now it's supposed to regress into a state where a huge chunk of the population does menial factory jobs, making shoes, gluing electronics together, dragging car tires across unsafe factory floors?

Yes. Half the workforce is incapable of anything else.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@eGremlin
It's still an improvement for them
Unfortunately, it won't improve much beyond that if they, themselves use free trade policies.

they produce at far higher prices
This is just a flat out fallacy. Labor inputs are relatively small in the production of a good. Increasing the labor input cost doesn't increase the final price very much at all because most of a goods cost comes from the machinery to produce it and the materials used. Using US labor would increase prices by 4-10% depending on the good which is in line with historical average tariff rates.

Anyway, to answer your question, yes, it is an improvement because it reduces unemployment and turns those being a deadweight loss on society (by effectively having their income subsidized by taxpayers) into net taxable sources of demand.

A gaping hole in free traders' plan is they espouse that even after net job losses from free trade, society benefits from (perceived) lower prices (however, we'll just assume this part of their theory is correct). What they miss is that income is absolutely, unequivocally, a total necessity and when these people lose their job needlessly from free trade, they siphon money from taxpayers to support themselves which necessitates raising taxes on the very same people who are getting "lower prices." In other words, whatever benefits are perceived to exist actually cancel out because of the need for income.

@CodeBuns
Nonsense, Japan was in a worse position than many African nations at the end of WWII and it protected its fledgling industries and invested heavily into infrastructure to boost overall productivity and efficiency.

All industries today are far more complex than they were 50-60 years ago. None are simply left behind in technological advancement.

If the Chinese want to reach western level wages and living standards, then they'll need even more protectionism and stop suppressing wage growth and adopt sustainable environmental policy.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@BlogWobbles
most of a goods cost comes from the machinery to produce it and the materials used.
Which are themselves expensive because of the labor needed to produce those items.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@BlogWobbles
Nonsense, Japan was in a worse position than many African nations at the end of WWII
Kind of. Except they had a rock solid social structure and culture, and knew how to industry already.

takes2long
takes2long

@Sir_Gallonhead
Which also have relatively low labor inputs and experience staggered costs in that machinery is a capital expenditure which does not need replaced on any frequent basis.

@Soft_member
Ah, but it's not just Japan that has grown and is growing tremendously under protectionist policy. More recently, places like Vietnam and the Dominican Republic are seeing substantial growth and burgeoning industry where there was previously little. The same went for China in the 80s, Korea, Taiwan, etc.

askme
askme

@Sir_Gallonhead
No. There's a reason Trump's economic plan is heavily vested on opening up the Energy industry.

http://fortune.com/2015/06/26/fracking-manufacturing-costs/

massdebater
massdebater

@BlogWobbles
Nonsense, Japan was in a worse position than many African nations at the end of WWII

LOL

nice bait

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@takes2long
Which also have relatively low labor inputs
Only if you look one level deep; if you keep going it's all labor costs.

TechHater
TechHater

@massdebater
You're right, I should have said "some" rather than "many."

@kizzmybutt
That's not even vaguely true. The base commodities used in producing goods have value independent of labor cost as is reflected in the futures market (blow are some exchanges). Additionally, land has value and cost to use independent of labor, as does electricity, water, etc. You're becoming silly, user. It's not like we don't have historical evidence to view in regard to producing *and* selling a product in the same country. Hell, we do it even today!

http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/agricultural/
http://lme.com/

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Sharpcharm
This worked great in Kansas

5mileys
5mileys

@ZeroReborn
@w8t4u
This. I don't have any sympathy for Jimbob who didn't try to see the writing on the wall and adapt their skills. Either by training to enter the service economy or training high skill technical jobs. They expected the world to take care of them, ironically what they disparage those on welfare for.

Fuck them, globalism is good.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@TurtleCat
He has one business. He rents his name to the other 499.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@5mileys
Why the fuck would someone train to downgrade?

girlDog
girlDog

@Boy_vs_Girl
I meant services like white collar jobs, not mcjobs

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

literally only cuts taxes on the rich

Thinking trump will actually help you get a better future is a special southern kind of retarded

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Spamalot
I voted Jill, and I'm actually noticing her get way more love than usual, feels good

Emberfire
Emberfire

@girlDog
Most people aren't capable of being professionals. The real boon of the last few centuries has been figuring out ways to get the peons to produce stuff of value, not in improving the peons.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Sir_Gallonhead
this all day

Evilember
Evilember

@Sir_Gallonhead
Clinton wants to spend about $100 billion repairing existing roads and bridges.

Cant fix the roads and bridges that are already fixed.

Obama just spent $800b fixing them all in 2009. What could she be spending another $100b on?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Burnblaze
they don't want tax cuts, they want customers
Every small business owner -1

I don't want more customers, I want less taxes so I can expand.
I would love to pay my employees more but I'm busy paying $32/hr after taxes for employees making $24/hr. I wish I could give it to them but instead the state/fed will imprison me if I don't take nearly 30% of their income out of their pay check.

Aside from COGS taxes are my #1 expense.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Sir_Gallonhead
We could elect Clinton. Who wants to jack up taxes on the Waltons and their giant bloated corporation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNTwYQGeWow
Implying Hillary's going to raise taxes on anyone with more than a couple million and less than one million

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Sir_Gallonhead
I won't accuse you of being CTR. I will accuse you of not knowing a goddamn thing about what you're talking about. Jesus Christ you'd think you could do some basic fucking research on what each of their policies are.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Crazy_Nice
The major influx of refugees and granting of amnesty is going to change a shit ton. Just because she's the "In bed with powerful people" candidate does NOT = stability. Powerful people want to pay workers less. A couple million refugees and 11 million illegals granted amnesty will do exactly that. She'll change a lot, but none of it for the better. Have you been paying attention to what happened in 2015 at all? Do you think that major influx of "refugees" resulted in stability? Do you think all the wars we've started and prolonged in the middle east resulted in stability? Stability is the opposite MO of the united states right now.

askme
askme

@Spamalot
Regan has no political experience
He was a governor for many years before he ran.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Snarelure
But she has no plans to grant amnesty, you retard

This is fear mongering /pol/ bullshit

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Skullbone
She said so in the debates.

@massdebater
college
Implying totally free college won't burst the education bubble, starve trades, and inflate hiring statuses to making college mandatory for even the most shit-tier of jobs.

Congrats on essentially putting a 4-year barrier on entering the workforce + deflating salaries across the board?

TechHater
TechHater

@girlDog
@Snarelure
The belief that their nation would rule the world forever, naturally encouraged the citizens of the leading nation of any period to attribute their pre-eminence to hereditary virtues. They carried in their blood, they believed, qualities which constituted them a race of supermen, an illusion which inclined them to the employment of cheap foreign labour (or slaves) to perform menial tasks and to engage foreign mercenaries to fight their battles or to sail their ships.
These poorer peoples were only too happy to migrate to the wealthy cities of the empire, and thereby, as we have seen, to adulterate the close-knit, homogeneous character of the conquering race. The latter unconsciously assumed that they would always be the leaders of mankind, relaxed their energies, and spent an increasing part of their time in leisure, amusement or sport.

takes2long
takes2long

@lostmypassword
@Techpill
believing that a presidential campaign is monitoring Veeky Forums

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@girlDog
Sorry, economics just doesn't work like that. No, not everyone can be a doctor, lawyer, fund manager, etc.

The fastest growing segment of jobs in the country since the 1970s is in the retail and food service sectors which have also seen real wages decline upwards of 20% over the period due to labor arbitrage.

Globalism is like a fungus that seeks to fatten itself upon the decay of nations.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

/pol/ ruins every fucking thread on other boards. Thank you for colorectal, the cancer.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Evil_kitten
lol all these CTR cucks samefagging

cum2soon
cum2soon

@girlDog
Of course you meant services like doctors. Tell me how many fucking doctors you can have in a workforce of 150million. Tell me about all these high tech service industry jobs you'll be able to retrain the wage cucks into, when average IQ means half the fuckng population can't do that shit.

And all the while you faggots are outsourcing the meanial labor factory jobs by the millions per year, you're importing millions of slave laborers each year who are soaking up all the shit service jobs our own retards previously did.

Now tell me you stupid fuck. What the fuck is that half the population who is unemployed and untrainable going to do?

farquit
farquit

@cum2soon
What the fuck is that half the population who is unemployed and untrainable going to do?
I wouldn't say they're untrainable but I get your point. This is a gaping hole in free trade that free traders go through great contortions to avoid answering.

Ultimately, if they're unemployed and unable to find work, they're siphoning money from taxpayers in order to replace their lost income. This necessitates raising taxes on the taxpayers to support the unemployed or adding debt+interest to support them. The high cost of 'low' prices~

viagrandad
viagrandad

@farquit
Right. Free trade is generally a good thing, between peer or near peer economies. Very few people have issues with NAFTA when it pertains to trade with Canada. Or free trade amongst the Commonwealth Nations. Or with the EU.

But, if we open up trade and open up borders with third world nations, one of two things will happen. They will get fucked by our massive economy destroying their local economy, or they will institute protectionist practices on their economy and fuck is over with their slave labor. It takes a delicate balance when opening emerging markets.

I don't have a problem with free trade. We have a free trade agreement written in to our constitution and takes up all of an entire paragraph. What I do have a problem with is opening up the entire third world all at once and siphoning our wealth away for no good to us other than the ability to buy cheap shit a few cents cheaper.

We have a nation to take care of. If they want it to continue being a free for all and use slave labor as a standard practice, I'm going to start changing the way I do business.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@viagrandad
They will get fucked by our massive economy destroying their local economy
when has this happened?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@viagrandad
Free trade is generally a good thing, between peer or near peer economies.
I would argue that it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. It's certainly not a good thing but it isn't necessarily a bad thing either. You really have to think about what free trade in this scenario is, and it's just arbitrarily throwing goods back and forth across an imaginary line; no prosperity of any kind is gained and the only theoretical loss is that one country doesn't obtain jobs from the arrangement.

As a general rule, free traders argue some nonsensical drivel that free trade is good because the "efficient" country will be making goods and the world benefits or something like that but it totally ignores reality. We live in an era of tremendous standardization due to technology; where there is no meaningful difference between a good produced in one country verses the same good in another. The same machinery and standardized processes will end up producing the same product regardless of the country of origin. In modern times, the difference in manufacturing costs are exclusive to one or more of the following: wages, regulation, or taxes.

We should certainly take into account that the origin of free trade theory was in a time long before the advent of the industrial revolution and the machine age, so Adam Smith and his then supporters had no concept of mass production and mass standardization.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Emberfire
It's happened mostly to desperately poor countries with medieval-tier infrastructure that accepted free trade. The US has a lot of bad, evil protectionism on agriculture (which is why it's a major industry) and when American crops are sold in these poor markets, it easily undercuts their local farmers and reinforces poverty; their farmers can't compete so they can't get enough money together to upgrade their equipment and because they can't do that, they can't compete, and repeat... It's a negative reflexive cycle.

whereismyname
whereismyname

early november, 2020
Clinton up for re-election though she already has it in the bag
her amnesty program for citizenship of aliens has been in effect for 2 of the 3 month window now
decide to watch final debate at friends house even though there is no hope of the country ever exiting a single party state
Mike Pence is just laughed at and called a racist for 90 minutes while the audience briefly breaks to ask scripted questions
upset at what this country has become

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@whereismyname

leave and try to forget about this and just focus on providing for my family, questioning why I bothered to even have a daughter after Trump lost in a landslide 4 years ago
driving home, notice a build up of traffic on this rural road
must be a roadside sobriety test
get closer and notice the cruiser cars.
it's actually Hillary Clinton's special immigrant-alien police force to aid in new-citizen relocating
they don't look anything like cops
begin to worry and think it's a trap of sorts
too late. *knocks on glass*
roll down window
AYYOO WHITE BOY WHERE YOU GOIN'? YO CHECK DA CAR
notice authentic special police force badge hanging off a big gold chain
two other "officers" begin to walk around car

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Spazyfool
suddenly remember I have a PENCE/CRUZ bumper sticker right beside my TRUMP/PENCE sticker I never removed
as quickly as my heart sank, I hear a voice from behind the car coupled with finger snapping noises
YOOOOO HAH DIS NIGGA RIGHT HERE
WE GOT A RACISS WHITE BOY
YOOOO
the one with the badge asks me to get out of the car, laughing and shoving me around
RACISS BOY, the others mock
start walking towards the back of the car

silence

I dont even hear the shot.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Evil_kitten
Trump will be easier on my taxes.

Oh, and less illegals is always a plus.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@BinaryMan
my argument for "good" is that artificial restrictions where none need to be are a negative. I could be more selective in my wording.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Flameblow
t. someone who will never make over 300k/year

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Carnalpleasure
Well, there's pragmatic issues with that. Most notably there's the issue that you could put tariffs on a good from a certain country, but then a firm making that good in that country can just reroute the good to enter through (say) Canada or have a small component of the production be done in (say) Canada, then enter the us to dodge the tariff. The second is that there's still the issue of less jobs going to your own country so you lose by having a lower tax base than you could have had. Finally, there's the interest of tax revenue to be gained (A straight 4% tariff on all imports would wipe out ~16.1% of the federal budget deficit)--even 10% tariffs would produce a hardly noticeable impact on prices to consumers.

It's also worth mentioning (although free traders never will) that you can be selective with your tariffs. If there's a specific good you want to allow free trade with, you certainly may. I wouldn't mind a small number of goods from Canada or the EU not be subject to tariffs as long as they did the same.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Spamalot

Government subsidies cause inefficiencies in the market. While renewable energy is cool, funneling government AKA taxpayer money into something with no intrinsic demand is exactly the reason why California has enormous fields of wind turbines that sit lifeless. It costs more money to fix them than the money that is made from them.

I love the purist ideals of Stein, but in actuality, it just doesn't work.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Spazyfool
Government subsidies cause inefficiencies in the market
Nonsense, when you subsidize something, you just get more of it.

California has enormous fields of wind turbines that sit lifeless
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not particularly knowledgeable about wind turbines specifically, there are really interesting economics behind solar.

If you imagine a scenario where the gov't subsidized virtually all of the cost of solar panels (insofar as it's needed to electrify a particular building) and most every business, home, and government facility took advantage, each of theses entities would see a substantial drop in monthly energy bills which would free up cash to be spent elsewhere, companies would have lower expenses and breakeven points so they would have a somewhat easier time staying open, and many government offices would have a lower expenditure attached to them. When this freed up money gets spent, it'll gradually find its way back to the government via taxes. You also have the benefits of a very high degree of national energy independence, the electric grid becomes a much less effective target for a terrorist attack (because electricity production is more decentralized), and if you care about it, it's clean energy. All while not having a significant impact on jobs because the panels need replacing every 20 years or so, but the original installation of the panels is staggered out over time in the first place.

Techpill
Techpill

@DeathDog
We're probably arguing semantics over what "free trade" means to us. I certainly don't disagree with you.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@w8t4u
I love everything about this except for the fact building out a solar infrastructure that large would do about as much harm to the environment as Chernobyl did when she popped.

If we can balance solar and nuclear we should be good.

The first US nuclear plant in 40 years opened last week, only good things ahead boys.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@w8t4u
A better way would be for the government to subsidize by directly buying into a technology. If, for instance, you think electric vehicle are a good thin, why not lobby the Feds to replace their fleets with EV?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Carnalpleasure
*BIGLY

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Emberburn
7, which is way less than most

SniperWish
SniperWish

unironical "muh trickle down" in a business board
This is fucking awful. I thought smart people lurked here ?

WebTool
WebTool

@King_Martha
Why is the wage gap necessarily bad if even the poor have well enough to get by? Being poor means having an outdated iPhone

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@CodeBuns
Only 1st generation male hispanics are hard working. The rest are a drain on society.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Techpill
Possibly.

@Sharpcharm
I don't necessarily believe that to be the case.

I like solar because it doesn't need constant management or to be continuously fed something (other than sunlight), it has the potential for tremendous decentralization of electricity and the benefits are passed on to the user, and it makes the nation more independent and secure in the case of mass adoption. Really, I'd be supportive of anything like that, not just solar, but there doesn't seem to be alternatives with the same characteristics. Even a personal generator is insufficient because it constantly needs to be fed something which is a hassle and mass adoption would still mean your nation is dependent on whatever fossil fuel it burns, so you can get swept up into some kind of stupid foreign conflict out of necessity.

My issue with nuclear is that it's still centralized power which lays claim to a portion of an individual's or group's income in a semi rent-seeking fashion, except technically something of value is being given in return.

@Skullbone
I don't see why we couldn't do both.

Also, electric vehicles combined with solar energy to charge them is similarly interesting to the solar energy subsidization I mentioned earlier. If the government subsidized virtually all the cost of an engine/batteries for an electric vehicle, that would substantially lower transportation costs. Consumers would have more money to spend, prices may decrease (gasoline costs do factor into a final shelf-price of a product), and there would be a far greater degree of energy independence so finally the middle eastern barbarians can bomb themselves into oblivion without necessitating the involvement of the west.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

GARY JOHNSON!!!

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@TechHater
That really fired up the ol noggin.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Stark_Naked
they *don't* create jobs with the savings. They hoard the money.

How could they hoard this money? How? If they invest it in businesses, it would provide jobs. If they bought luxury goods for themselves, it would provide jobs. Maybe they could put it in a bank, but then the bank could loan the money to others and create jobs. I guess these rich people would have to keep this money in their mattresses.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@cum2soon
you faggots are outsourcing the meanial labor factory jobs by the millions per year, you're importing millions of slave laborers each year who are soaking up all the shit service jobs our own retards previously did.

Couldn't have summed it up better than that right there.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Fuzzy_Logic
long winded post that refused to answer the question.

massdebater
massdebater

Trader here.

Clinton cause she wants wall street to "self regulate" and basically turns a blind eye to all the shady shit we continuously do.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@massdebater
wall street trader here

post proof

Booteefool
Booteefool

@LuckyDusty
Right now it's happening because interest rates are so low. It's a maneuver designed to boost the stock market, but little is filtering down to the actual economy. It's just circulating amongst stocks like one of those cash grab tubes on game shows.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Evil_kitten
user did answer. That exact scenario has played out all over Africa and South America.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@LuckyDusty
Maybe they could put it in a bank, but then the bank could loan the money to others and create jobs.

implying that they keep their money in the US

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Evil_kitten
I'm no economist, I believe that if you over regulate and over tax corporations, they will attempt to the redeem lost money by other means. Sourcing parts or all of your products from China seams to be the popular move. I recrecall reading about factory ships in the first half of the 1900's. That was an attempt to get out of taxes and regulations. Anyways, I believe if you loosen the pressure on corporations they will at least keep the factories the already have here. Maybe even bring some jobs back.
That combined with more import taxes may pressure companies to make shit within the US.

idontknow
idontknow

@CodeBuns
It's not just the taxes, though that is an issue. It's also the regulations. Want to make it a giant pain in the ass for a corporation to open a factory overseas? Tell them they'll lose the US market if they don't operate that factory to US regulatory standards.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@massdebater
You don't even have to raise taxes on the wealthy, theoretically you just have to close loopholes because most people above a certain threshold abuse the system because that's what make sense.

I'm not even saying that it would be possible, but if you could tighten up the code so that the richest people were paying what they're "supposed" to pay then you could significantly slash their tax rate and still make a huge profit off of them.

I mean, Warren Buffet pays about ~16% now, right? If you could get him to pay even 25% that's a significant increase from an individual perspective. He's supposedly supposed to pay ~40% for income tax, but he doesn't. The same is true for a lot of different people.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

Over 9000 hours in ms paint

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Evil_kitten
Clinton could blow it up while Trump could crush it. We're better off if the Donald crushes it IMO.

idontknow
idontknow

@viagrandad

How is it in your mind you think that anyone who doesn't suckle Donald's nuts is a shill?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@idontknow
$.02 has been deposited into your account

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@PurpleCharger
1 ruble has been deposited to your account

Bidwell
Bidwell

Trump policies are terrible and would lead to shitty trade wars and all. His tax policy would greatly increase the debt.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Evil_kitten
whichever one is closer to austrian economics. i would probably go with trump.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Deadlyinx
austrian economics is idiotic user. Keynes was right.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@viagrandad
The British policy of FBOT was always the best.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Firespawn
+1 worthless fiat currency devalued by central banking has been deposited into your keynes account

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Evil_kitten
Clinton

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@SniperGod
Inflation has been historically low for years and if anything the dollar could end up too strong, so please do tell how our currency is worthless

viagrandad
viagrandad

@PurpleCharger

call people shills when you're the ones going around Veeky Forums to every board campaigning for trump for free

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Evil_kitten
Does ANYONE on this board even consider immigration and foreign relations as a factor?
You don't even remotely get the full economic picture just by looking at their economic policies.

Clinton wants to open the borders and get as many refugees as possible which kills the economy, Trump wants to deport all the illegals that are ruining the economy right now.

Additionally Clinton is going to increase the military spending by a crazy amount since she supported a possible war on Russia.
Trump on the other hand wants to get along with Russia which will end all the crazy military spendings for the proxy wars in the middle east which will additionally create more labour since the soldiers would be working instead.

Not to mention that Clinton was in office for 30 years and she never did anything that she promises she'll do after the election even though she had a chance to do so, so no basis to believe her. Trump on the other hand was incredibly consistent in his claims, here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCabT_O0YSM

I believe my post will kill the thread, we're choosing the president and not the finance minister, Veeky Forums can't seriously be this short minded.

@Need_TLC
If you invest in the amount of companies Trump did invest it's not a surprise that some of them have gone bankrupt, he's still growing and was growing in the big picture
They are unavoidable if you're a huge businessman, you're just confusing personal bankruptcy with a bankruptcy of one of your businesses. Get >>/out/

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Boy_vs_Girl
Dude, ignoring the fact that hunting down every illegal immigrant and throwing them all out without first giving them a trial to prove their innocence is a gross violation of both the 4th and 6th amendments that make the Patriot Act look like a walk in the park .. ignoring how shitty Trump is at the constitution ..

Do you realize how fucking expensive it would be to hunt down every illegal?

And then of course there is the inevitable class action suit against the federal government filed on behalf of every person residing in America accused of residing here illegally and each demanding a trial to prove their innocence, which Trump would surely lose especially given the current state of the Supreme Court.

Followed by the massive expense of housing every illegal immigrant in a detention center that doesn't violate the 8th amendment, and the massive expense of putting 11 million people on trial .. the discovery, the research, the litigation.

Not to mention the huge burden you're now placing on farmers and ranchers to backfill positions with minimum wage or higher jobs. (Assuming of course Trump doesn't litigate virtually every farmer and rancher as well for hiring illegals).

So while he's putting the country in debt and tarnishing a legacy by shitting on the constitution from the jump, food prices are going to go way way up.

Amnesty is much cheaper. Especially when you step back, look at the statistics, and realize that the overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants are actually being chill and keeping a low profile and working shit jobs no one else wants.

Are you gonna go pick potatoes? Are you gonna go scrub cow titties? I'm not. I got a sweet desk job. Who do you propose we send to the farms and ranches? The homeless? Millenials fresh out of college with giant $100k student loan debts?

***
Also, let me be clear about something. I don't want to get along with Vladimir Putin. I don't like Vladimir Putin. I grew up in Reagans America

TreeEater
TreeEater

@askme
Lower taxes = higher revenue in the long run. Don't you even study economics?

Supergrass
Supergrass

@TreeEater
If this was actually true then we would have had an explosion of good jobs in the 80's and again in the early to mid 2000's.

Lower taxes only equates to job growth when the job creators paying fewer taxes actually decide to create jobs with their savings. Rather than house the savings in offshore banks.

Trump has no such coalition of job creators committed to offering good jobs if we lower their taxes. He wants yet another implementation of faith based trickle down.

Do you even study economic history?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

Of the tax cuts Mr. Trump proposed, the vast majority would benefit upper-income households and corporations, the latter of which would see their top rate slashed from 35 percent to 15 percent. In truth, it’s difficult to estimate the impact of these proposed changes, because the Trump campaign left it unclear whether the 15 percent top rate would also apply to “pass-through” businesses; these firms pay taxes at individual income rates, which are higher than corporate rates and would remain so (albeit reduced) under Mr. Trump’s plan. If the lower corporate rate applies to pass-throughs as well, the revenue reduction could be even larger.

We went through this trickle down bullshit before so why the fuck are people falling for it again?

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@TreeEater
But user, this isn't true!

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@hairygrape
Illegals don't just pick potatoes

They also steal IT work

Were not just talking about mexicans you racist

takes2long
takes2long

@Poker_Star
Oh your small business makes 300k? Because if it is less than she isn't raising taxes in you.

Inmate
Inmate

@FastChef
That isn't what we are discussing. We are discussing their plans and hypothetical implementation you faggot:

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@TechHater
is this the Fate of Empires by Glubb?

Booteefool
Booteefool

@hairygrape
I don't want to get along with Vladimir Putin. I don't like Vladimir Putin.
Read: I don't like world peace, I like the middle east and Ukraine to be a huge battleground for the ongoing cold war and I certainly don't mind a full scale WW3 (with all the military and manpower spending in mind) and the growth of ISIS.
a gross violation of both the 4th and 6th amendments that make the Patriot Act look like a walk in the park, ignoring how shitty Trump is at the constitution
You shouldn't even mention this stuff if you wanted to defend Hillary, that doesn't even compare to the stuff Hilarry wants to do to America and even stuff she did herself.
She wants the same unconstitutional laws and on top of everything the crimes she commited would've resulted in a full time prison for her if she wasn't an untouchable person.
@Supergrass
you are incorrect, here are some examples
Your argument is a fallacy, were those historic events entirely based on the amount of taxes? Ohhh, right, there were thousands of other influences, but you surely forgot that.
@Stark_Naked
I don't get what you want to point out? Are you claiming that taxing rich people is good for the economy? When you tax all the rich people the products they make get more expensive according to the tax which equals inflation and you do the math. It's pretty much a trap for people that are both stupid and uneducated, they think it will result in some magical robin hood stuff, these people even wonder why the poor even vote for the right.
@Sir_Gallonhead
@hairygrape
Illegals cost a ton of money even when they come to the shop and purchase a bag of rice. They didn't pay any taxes yet they're enjoying all the roads, buildings, products and virtually everything that's adjusted according to the taxes.
When people say that all illegals are thieves they don't mean that they literally grab purses from grandmas on the streets. Well, some of them do that as well though and at an astronomically higher rate that real citizens do.

farquit
farquit

@takes2long
I don't think they have resources to have agents over here at all times, but that doesn't mean that the first two posts in this thread weren't written by them.
Veeky Forums gets cached immediatly, I won't be surprised if they get an instant alert if codewords such as Clinton, Trump, election e.t.c. are used as a post, or if they have less resources, then just in the OP post, so that they can dedicate a person for a quick solution, as you can see in the first two posts while taking account the time difference between both of them it looks like a poor shill attempt with the time difference being used for the proxy change.
Would a normal Veeky Forums poster just write Clinton as the answer without giving any substance?

Alternatively this very thread was created by them, which I find less likely.

The moment you realize that I'm not paranoic the better for you, you are more of a denier if you think that I am after the times of Snowden and Wikileaks.

CTR, don't try to respond to this, I'm well equipped, just keep doing your shady stuff in a different place, thank you.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Booteefool
When you tax all the rich people the products they make get more expensive according to the tax which equals inflation

Taxes take money out of circulation, not adding to it. If anything taxing the rich would be deflationary

askme
askme

@Need_TLC

Actually, declaring bankruptcy is more of a strategic financial move that's fairly common with giant companies moving alot of $. And that's because of our fucking tax code that makes it cheaper to go through the "bankruptcy" process.

In reality, these people aren't bankrupt at all. He's a businessman who was listening to his accountants and his business sense.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Evil_kitten
don't call it a comeback
i been here for years
rockin' my peers
puttin' sucka's in fear

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Evil_kitten
Clinton is just going to be the same we have now, which is not that bad.

Trump's page does not have any policy but from his speeches I'm guessing he's going to lower taxes and add tariffs. While reducing taxes is good and popular I don't see it helping the deficit in short term (8 years). And being able to outsource things to China is why purchasing power in US is high, I don't see how tariffs will help US economy in general or do US companies good.

In general I'm okay with 4-8 more years of what we have rather than a risky alternative with bold claims.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Harmless_Venom
kys fucking Keynes fag

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Carnalpleasure
No, he isnt. Hes going to lower them on the surface but eliminate loopholes and punish companies for saving money by doing their manufacturing elsewhere. Under Trump shit is going to cost far more.

girlDog
girlDog

@Need_TLC
You know how many times Clinton declared bankruptcy? 0.
You know how many times I declared bankruptcy? 0.

Do you know many times Trump declared bankruptcy? 0.

He has zero personal bankruptcies, which is what you are referring to.

He has had 4 companies file for chapter 11 for strategic reasons, sometimes for reasons outside of his control, such as the economic conditions in Atlantic City.

A person going bankrupt and a business going bankrupt is 2 completely different and separate things, so saying "durr Trump went bankrupt!" is completely false and just shows how fucking stupid anyone saying it is.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Crazy_Nice
fucking keynes fag
that's more of a monetarist statement than a Keynesian one, but I guess you're qualified to call people economic illiterates because you skimmed the syllabus of a microeconomics course.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@girlDog
Beyond that, those 4 companies are like 4 out of the 100+ brands that Trump has. The whole "you could've made more in an index fund" is a fucking meme, even Bloomberg admits this (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-09-03/should-donald-trump-have-indexed-)

Inmate
Inmate

@Sir_Gallonhead
They also steal IT work

False and demonstrably wrong.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Crazy_Nice
Totally irrelevant, a better indicator is how much time is required to pay for goods instead of how many dollars they cost

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Poker_Star
Is a tradesman, have a business
Doesnt care about the economy
???
Profit

Snarelure
Snarelure

@hairygrape
You fucking idiot, the constitution does NOT apply to illegal immigrants.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Snarelure
I'm constantly explaining this to Trump supporters.

The constitution applies to literally everyone currently residing or existing on US soil. Everyone. No exceptions.

The 14th amendment is very clear on this.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Pay attention to that last part. It's really important.

There have been multiple cases before the Supreme Court, dozens even, challenging this. Even case with illegal immigrants.

Everyone currently located on US soil, is protected by the constitution. Everyone.

***
Bro do you even have a pocket constitution? I do.

FastChef
FastChef

@Emberfire
how the fuck do you expect the peons to produce anything of value if you don't improve them

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Deadlyinx
you just contradicted yourself

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@BlogWobbles
DYEPC
Do You Even Pocket Constitution

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Evil_kitten
because you skimmed the syllabus of a microeconomics cours
no, i actually have studied economic policies throughout human history, and your policies do not work

@Ignoramus
no

happy_sad
happy_sad

@askme
trump supports think this is a good idea
Please be a falseflagger.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Spazyfool

If we both give him $12 we've reduced deficit by $12, somebody make me an economist

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Lord_Tryzalot
This thread isn't too bad. It hasn't devolved into using bullshit sources or
muh jews/[insert word]niggers

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@hairygrape
Do you realize how fucking expensive it would be to hunt down every illegal?
Don't know how much it costs to kick them out. But, I know how much it costs to keep them here.

The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers (2013) $113b/yr
http://archive.is/aefO9

Taxes:
The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer $54.3b/yr
Heritage May 2013 http://archive.is/T7u8p

Education:
Educating illegal immigrants costs $44.5b Annually
AJC August 2016 http://archive.is/JuVJp

The cost to educate unaccompanied minor illegal immigrants over $761 million
Washington Times September 2014 http://archive.is/g0Vq5

How Illegal Immigrants Can Pay for College $32m Federal Scholarships, In State Tuitions
USNews August 2014 http://archive.is/HLRIz

Scholarships for Undocumented Students
scholarships.com February 2016 http://archive.is/m9PCR

Healthcare:
$4.3b/yr Care Costs for Undocumented Immigrants Absorbed by Hospitals
Healthcare Finance News November 2013 http://archive.is/ficX6

Illegal Immigrants Account for $10.7 Billion of Nation’s Health Care Costs, Data Show
CNSNews July 2009 http://archive.is/JOlTt

Immigrant Labor:
Mass Migration Driving Down Wages
Telegraph December 2015 http://archive.is/0igxb

Increasing the Supply of Labor Through Immigration: Measuring the Impact on Native-born Workers -4%wages/yr
CIS April 2004 http://archive.is/ZeuQX

All Employment Growth Since 2000 Went to Immigrants
CIS June 2014 http://archive.is/MdITh

Immigrant Entrepeneurs: 1/4 of new business hire 1/2 as many employees as Native Entrepeneurs
CEPR August 2016 http://archive.is/s0HPZ

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@hairygrape
food prices are going to go way way up.

That's a lie.
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/low-paid-illegal-work-force-has-little-impact-on-prices/
FTA

If illegal workers disappeared from the apple harvest and wages for the remaining legal workers rose by 40 percent in response — and that entire wage increase were passed on to the consumer — that still would add less than 3 cents to the retail price of a pound of apples.

And another lie
working shit jobs no one else wants.
Picrelated

Who do you propose we send to the farms and ranches? The homeless? Millenials fresh out of college with giant $100k student loan debts?
Yes.

Aside from the complete mischaracterization of Trump's immigration policy, you've lied about actual real life occurances which aren't abstract theoreticals. Why are you even here?

askme
askme

@hairygrape
@Garbage Can Lid

Do you know how much it would cost?
Wait I do know. Just remembered this report

https://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2010/03/pdf/cost_of_deportation_execsumm.pdf

$285b/5yrs
That includes super high tech border security, not a low cost wall. The price comes out to about $57b/yr, or about half what those fuckers cost us every year.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@BlogWobbles
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
If you cross a border illegally, then you are a criminal. Criminals are put in jail. However, seeing as how undocumented citizens are normally from Mexico, that makes them Mexican citizens. Which means that they should be deported off of our land(as is guaranteed under equal protection of the law), and tried by Mexican courts. However, 12 million is a lot to try for courts that we know don't work. What do you think we should do? Just ignore it? Ignore it until we can't? Maybe ignore it forever?

IGNORING A PROBLEM DOESN'T MAKE IT GO AWAY. But you're probably salivating at the prospect of 12 million illegal immigrants who can't speak English being granted amnesty. "Yes, yes!," is what you're thinking, "Finally, the democratic party will rule completely unopposed! Guns will be restricted, more socialist policies will improve our economy, we'll get to help out the hundreds of thousands more refugees that we created! Nothing will go wrong!".

But I have to ask: Will being an American citizen even mean anything anymore, then? Millions of people who broke the law knowingly, instead of being given a trial and a sentence, are rewarded with citizenship? Will that encourage people, or these new citizens, to follow the law, AT ALL? Because I don't believe it will.

If you support this, you don't want a country that crowns thy good with brotherhood. You want a country where the law only means something because of the threat of violence and crippling debt. You can say all you like that I'm just using a slippery slope fallacy, but people said that about gay acceptance, which I used to support. Now look at the kind of things it's doing. The bible-thumpers were absolutely right, it was a slippery slope. Slippery slopes are never wrong, given enough time. And it won't take nearly as long for those things to happen as you might think.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@King_Martha
If you cross a border illegally, then you are a criminal. Criminals are put in jail.

Only after we prove they are criminals.

Meaning, providing them with their 6th amendment right.

So many Trump supporters fail to understand that if literally every illegal immigrant claims they're not guilty, they're going to completely clog up the justice system.

#occupy did it in NYC with 1/10th of 1% of the amount of people.

We're talking billions of dollars in investigation and prosecution.

That Operation Wetback shit might've worked in the 50's but this is the 21st century. A dozen rednecks can seize federal property and threaten trespassers with firearms and get away with it, what makes you think 11 million people can get scooped up and thrown away without a trial.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Garbage Can Lid
FAIR
Opinion discarded.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@PurpleCharger
What the Fuck does this mean?

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Ignoramus
I dont believe this plot.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Burnblaze
You mean Hillary?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Spazyfool
I love the purist ideals of Stein, but in actuality, it just doesn't work.
Never been tried in America. Has worked (and still does) in Europe.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@iluvmen
I'm not an illegal alien
Okay, drivers license please
Don't have one.
Birth certificate please.
Don't have one.
Immigration paperwork please.
De Nada.
Tax paperwork? Bank account? Social security? Passport? Health insurance plan? High school year book?
Nope.
Gee, it sure is hard proving who's illegal.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Sir_Gallonhead
all those retarded answers.

One simple answer.

You got a warrant?

walking down the street.
cop demands to see proof of citizenship
You got a warrant?

running a business
cops demand to see proof of workers citizenship
You got a warrant?

Seriously. why is it that virtually every single Trump supporter knows fuck all about the United States Constitution?

You *do* live here, right?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@iluvmen
comes to Veeky Forums
"1/10th of 1%"
not 0.1%
why tho? you just <seem> retard.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@farquit
Exclusive lurker here coming out to say: Thanks for being based as fuck.

this thread got so shifty and off-topic. :(

Firespawn
Firespawn

@TreeEater
Lower taxes = higher revenue in the long run.

still taking baby steps in macro 101?

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

It doesn't matter who's marginally more sound than the other, Hillary is a criminal and a traitor and should be in jail. If you vote for her you're morally bankrupt

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Booteefool
When you tax all the rich people the products they make get more expensive according to the tax which equals inflation and you do the math.

TechHater
TechHater

@Need_TLC
You're fucking retarded

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@viagrandad
You're a retard if you think a 30% tax rate at incomes over 1 million means you only get 700 000$ after taxes.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@likme
Why is this even being asked?
Just about every economist and businessman worth a shit is for Hillary.

They are all brain dead Keynesians, that's why.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@StonedTime
all taxes can be past on
'no'

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@LuckyDusty

I would sleep better at night knowing Trump is not the one in charge of the nuclear codes

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@TurtleCat
Raise demand for their goods or services. That's why they are in business.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Stark_Naked
Now we already know that if you lower taxes for millionaires and corporations, they *don't* create jobs with the savings. They hoard the money. Reagan proved this, Bush confirmed this.

You are truly delusional. Reagan lowered taxes and the 80's were awesome.You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own set of facts.

5mileys
5mileys

Trump wants to repatriate the drug trade. The off the books money is astounding.

idontknow
idontknow

@Need_TLC
You know how many times Clinton declared bankruptcy? 0

She didn't have to declare bankruptcy. She sold 20% of our uranium reserves to the russians for $165 million. The Clinton Foundation could end today, and she and Bill could live off of the $250 million endowment the Foundation has. I hate you shitheads who come here and spout opinions that have no basis in facts. That's the only way she can get anyone to vote for her.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@idontknow

I would vote for any other republican not named Donald Trump.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Trumps anti free trade stuff is just so disastrous... Free trade lowers domestic prices and the only negative part of it is the income distribution effects that might come along with it. The argument that the US loses jobs to China and the US would be better off without free trade is just ridiculous, since the gains from trade allow the US to easily compensate the losers and still be better off.

But yeah, Hillary's terrible on so many other aspects. I am glad I don't live in the US and don't have to choose between them.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Poker_Star

What kind of money do your customers make? When I was a tradesman, I worked in tenements more often than in mansions.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Inmate
I don't know why people pretend there's any way to give the economy a stimulus and creat jobs other than lowering taxes

Bullshit. If you want to create jobs and stimulate the economy, the most effective technique is to raise taxes on the upper middle class and give the money straight to the poor.

Why money to the poor? Because they buy all that shit they've needed and haven't been able to afford right away, which helps sellers and tradespeople.

Why raise taxes? Because we stop working when we feel like the tax rate is so high that we don't gain anything else from extra work. For tradespeople, this manifests as hiring assistants (for the business expense) and taking time off to enjoy yourself. For proles, this manifests as them sticking to the 40 hour workweek because there's no point in doing extra work - as a result, if their employer wants the same amount of work done for the same cost, they need to lay on extra employees.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@TurtleCat
You raise our taxes, duh.

I didn't start CONSIDERING hiring employees until my tax burden became offensive to me.

askme
askme

I think Trump will trick the economy out while Hillary will eventually trick the suckers into eating a highly toxic shit sandwich. It's not a hard decision.
@CodeBuns
Enjoy that shit sandwich or pro-working class USA number.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Evil_kitten
who care's about economic plans, I (like everyone else) voted based on who had the most similar genitals.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Stark_Naked
Now we already know that if you lower taxes for millionaires and corporations, they *don't* create jobs with the savings. They hoard the money. Reagan proved this, Bush confirmed this.

Different times, different measures. The American stock markets have been saturated. EM's keep proving they're vulnerable and so does Europe. Bond yields are extremely slim. Real estate is inflated. Do you know what corporations can do with the extra profits? Pay shareholders more and raise wages. Or expand, even though foreign consumption is reaching a plateau as production exceeds needs so doing so is high risk, low reward. Corporations would be well advised to focus on re-structuring debt, paying shareholders dividends then increasing salaries because of low employment. All of this will restore organic inflation and re-balance growth in a more sustainable fashion because shareholders tend to spend or invest profits. THIS ISN'T THE 80'S, 90'S OR 00'S, THE GREAT RECESSION CHANGED THE ECONOMY.

The current liberal model is liberally making things worse, for the better (i.e. screwing you fools over in the long-trun). I know it's tricky, but Trump's conservative model might make things better, conservatively while forcing some people to live more conservatively. It seems like meme-magic but it's not, it just so happens that English is a very convenient language.

Raising taxes on imports from the countries that are very consumer efficient (i.e. their consumers consume less for more hours worked) might help keep IMPORTANT industry and manufacturing from folding in on itself too rapidly thus forfeiting market share to foreign companies and reducing dollar demand.

Under Trump we'd experience a wider wage gap. Which decreases the size and influence of the middle class. Which fucks our economy.

REMINDER: the next recession is coming soon enough and it's going to decrease the size and influence of the middle class AND fuck the economy up anyway.

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