Why do people (if you can call libertarians people) have such an irrational...

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Why do people (if you can call libertarians people) have such an irrational hatred of the Federal Reserve?

All urls found in this thread:
http://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-earnings/
http://www.yardeni.com/pub/YARDENICHARTBOOKDAILY.PDF
http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metacrs9044/m1/1/high_res_d/IP0281G.pdf
http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/monetary/20160921a.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banking_crises,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banking_crises
http://www.yardeni.com/pub/FOFEQBND.PDF
http://www.yardeni.com/pub/FOFCORPFIN.PDF
King_Martha
King_Martha

@Ignoramus
National Bank shouldn't be privately owned, currency policy should be the realm of a publically owned national bank.

askme
askme

@King_Martha
First off, that's a myth, every bank besides the New York Fed is publically owned, and second off, it doesn't matter who owns it, it matters who controls it, which in the case of the FOMC is publically appointed officials.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@askme
Publically =/= state owned

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Ignoramus
It's not necessarily irrational. I agree with the existence of the Federal Reserve, but a lot of them agree with Hayek's view. They might necessarily agree with certain policies taken by the Fed, but are opposed to the Fed's monopoly on currency. Opposition to giving ExxonMobil a monopoly on oil drilling doesn't equal opposition to oil drilling is the general vibe I get out of them.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@King_Martha
@kizzmybutt
So as a libertarian, you think that Bernie Sanders should be able to depress the interest rate until we have full employment?

A publicly owned Fed would give us something worse than our current Monetarism/Keynesianism hybrid, it'd give us Post-Keynesianism because of the Sanders-Warren wing of the Democrats. They'd use it to support socialist policies in the name of having full employment all the time, rather than just during recessions.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Gigastrength
No I'm not American and my views have nothing to do with Bernie Sanders or the democratic party or Post Keynesianism.

I'm advocating state capitalism.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Ignoramus
because theyre mad thyre not the ones printing money

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Carnalpleasure
state capitalism

That's like a 'democratic dictatorship.'

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@BinaryMan
Not at all

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@BinaryMan
State Capitalism is the state using capitalism or capitalist entities as the basis of it's economy in a centralized fashion. Proven to be a superior method than neoliberal capitalism or marxism socialism.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Carnalpleasure
@Need_TLC

advocating state capitalism
State capitalism causes the entire economy to become reliant on a single or a single group of sectors.

China can't adopt to market forces and make its steel industry more efficient because the workers will riot against the state. State capitalism naturally leads to an authoritarian state, so you have to keep those poorfags employed in uncompetitive jobs or else they'll riot.

Read Friedman.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Ignoramus
irrational hatred of the federal reserve...

irrational.

Wewlad. For starters the fucking name in itself is deceitful.

not Federal
no reserves.

They yoyo bank interest rate as they see fit to keep us on edge of a depression.

I mean? What rational reason would u have for liking them? They are a bank for banks?

what is fractional borrowing/lending?

Anyone having anything to do with it should be publicly flogged the way i see it.

Banks shouldnt need a bank.

They should stop overlending and if its not too late shit will settle itself out.

But, the sky is falling.

The numbers are astronomically fucked.

America, we bout to go to war with someone or have a new currency...

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Need_TLC
Oh fuckoff. I havent dedicatted my life to learning capitolism buying houses and bizinesses, etc... just to become a communitsic or socialist society.

Looks like i get to fucking move....

Come onnnnnn trump

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Deadlyinx
yoyo interest rates
Lmfao, no. They change interest rates (usually) by accordance to the New Taylor rule.

banks for banks
Your argument doesn't exist at all, just fear mongering

@kizzmybutt
Ok?

@Playboyize
Currency is a natural monopolistic "industry" in itself.

If you need proof on how shit it is, just see the free banking period in the early to mid 1800s.

cum2soon
cum2soon

A combination of misinformation sprinkled in with a little bit of correct information but not enough to give context.

Basically they are the equivalent of someone who got some of the cliff-notes to macroeconomics 101 that they half-skimmed, a pamphlet from the John Birch Society, and a copy of "Atlas Shrugged" and base their entire political and social ethics off of the above. In fact, in some cases I think that may be literal.

They're pawns for people who perpetuate weaponized misinformation in our society. Lowest form of shill: the unpaid kind.

askme
askme

@cum2soon
Atlas Shrugged
God I fucking hate this book and what it's done to this country.

I just take solace in the fact that Ayn Rand lived off the government.

Techpill
Techpill

@Ignoramus
quantitative easing, operation twist, and artificially low interest rates for long periods aren't signs of a successful regime. You have doubt in their competence as a result.
but it's teh fiscal policy that makes it look bad
No one will blame obama because he's black.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Ignoramus
It's because private money has been outlawed by the state, since business are forced to accept USD & taxes must be paid in USD.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

Every cent of what every user of the dollar earns either through their labor or through profit is destined for the pockets of a bank to pay what is fraudulently called "interest", or a fee we must pay them for the service of stealing our earnings from us through inflation.

We are coerced against our will to use a currency that continually loses value, and to spend the majority of our time and labor working to pay the fee for our own enslavement.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Burnblaze

Sometimes i think that Libertarians are people who almost made it to Communism but stopped short and took a detour to Randland.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Ignoramus

Because muh gold

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@ZeroReborn

Never read Rand. We're not all objectivists. Thanks for trolling.

whereismyname
whereismyname

Not one cent of federal income tax goes to pay for any program.

The pie charts that you see describing the allocation of the budget are fiction. The actual disbursement of funding was thoroughly audited in the 1980s and proved that it all goes to pay Fed interest.

The Fed/IRS/Income Tax were "enacted" simultaneously for a reason. The monetary pool does not include the counterfeiting fee (interest) - the income tax is a gunpoint guarantee that the fee will be paid either through more borrowing or the forfeiture of real assets by the government (by force).

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Ignoramus

libertarians are not people, hue hue

irrational fear of what nearly everyone agrees is inevitable economic catastrophe

$inflation/10, made me reply to this completely shite bait.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@whereismyname
The actual disbursement of funding was thoroughly audited in the 1980s and proved that it all goes to pay Fed interest.
source?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Snarelure

infowars link incoming

Bidwell
Bidwell

@ZeroReborn

wtf does this even mean?

Communsim and Ayn Rand are polar opposites retard

massdebater
massdebater

@Techpill
Prove it, all of those have been successful so far.

@Need_TLC
Every economist who has any worth agrees that central banking is a good thing (99.9% of a economists). Take your retarded and irrelevant Austrian School of Thought somewhere else.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@askme

How so? she collected social security she paid into? She used public roads?

Did you know Karl Marx used goods that were bought and sold for profit?

I don't see why there is a double standard for Ayn Rand

Methshot
Methshot

@hairygrape
No double standard. Just one standard to not be a hypocritical cunt

TreeEater
TreeEater

i don't even know what the fed does, but i hate it.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Methshot

Just because I have slaves and think it should be illegal to own them doesn't make me a hypocrite.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@hairygrape
Have you ever read any of Ayn Rand's works?

What makes /her/ justified in using social security, an inherently altruistic system, for her own benefit simply because she paid into it, but suddenly in Atlas Shrugged it's unjustified for James Taggart to use the government to take out his competition (Phoenix-Durango). Taggart pays into the system, isn't he entitled to something out of it?

That's the flaw with objectivism. I've read and own Philosophy: Who Needs It, The Virtue of Selfishness, The Fountainhead, and Atlas Shrugged.

@Bidwell
Using Ayn Rand's logic, they wouldn't be. Ayn Rand frequently equated christianity with communism because both endorsed "self-sacrifice."

Assuming you're an unironic Objectivist, you have no grounds to, therefore, oppose the equation of communism and objectivism on the grounds that both are based in radical materialism and the rejection of Christianity.

Reminder that if Rand's philosophy were worth a grain of salt, the people clamoring for lower regulations, lower taxes, and smaller government would not conveniently be supported in large part by Evangelicals.

girlDog
girlDog

@Ignoramus
nicely said

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Snarelure

The Grace Commission. President Reagan ordered the audit himself, and had a group of experts conduct an audit. Look it up yourself.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@massdebater

who has any worth

e.g., everyone who agrees with you, agrees with you.

Back2rdt with your shite bait and personal attacks.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Gigastrength
So as a libertarian, you think that Bernie Sanders should be able to depress the interest rate until we have full employment?

You should probably take 5 minutes to understand libertarianism before you wade into this.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Deadlyinx
Your lack of understanding of any of this is why people think libertarians are retarded. Because they are.

farquit
farquit

@Burnblaze
Lol. The FED is why my job sucks!!

viagrandad
viagrandad

@whereismyname
So how are those programs paid for? Lol. You watched one too many YouTube conspiracy videos.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@TurtleCat
Go through the top ten economic journals and find 1 fucking papers that agrees with you.

@VisualMaster
You should probably take 30 seconds to read the conversation before you reply with this.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@VisualMaster
I'm point out that a publicly owned Fed would be a fucking disaster from a libertarian point of view. I think I understand libertarianism, I was one for like two years until I came to my senses and realized that if every major economist disagrees with you, it's not because they're wrong.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Emberburn
[Citation needed]
And no, not a fucking conspiratard website
Heads up, 98% of all economists worth their salt aren't getting paid off by muh Rothschild banks

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Ignoramus
It's easy to hate and be fearful of things you don't understand. People hear the government is printing 80 billion a month, and think omg were going bankrupt. Plus, people try and use their personal understand of spending and budgets, and apply it in a macro sense.

Methshot
Methshot

@kizzmybutt
^this

TechHater
TechHater

@Ignoramus
I find it hilarious that libertarians take an introductory microeconomics course and suddenly think they're hot shit and will criticize liberals for being economically illiterate, while having no knowledge about macroeconomics international trade

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@TechHater
^^^again, this

libertarians are the ones screaming about "ECONOMIC ILLITERATES" when they literally know nothing of economics

Saying they take a microeconomics course is pretty generous

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@TechHater

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Also Europeans are about to lol at you, because outside of the US Liberals and Libertarians are the same group. I understand what you mean though.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@King_Martha
Curiously, why is there a concern that it is "privately owned"? It's not privately owned in the sense that profits are kept for the shareholders. Almost all of the Fed's profits are sent to the US Treasury. Also, it's not privately owned in the sense that the organization itself elects a board. The POTUS appoints the board of governors. Is the concern that it's not publicly owned that its policies are not controlled by the public? Is that it?

Nojokur
Nojokur

@kizzmybutt
Or maybe people understand the desperate measures we've been taking in monetary policy and are cautious of it. Even the MSM talks about monetary policy no longer being as effective as we once thought.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Nojokur
no longer being as effective
Until all financial assets are owned by the Fed and there is no more paper left to print money on, there is no excuse to say "monetary policy isn't effective"

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Fried_Sushi
It's effective at causing artificial bull markets on wall street.
Hows that inflation and interest rate goal going for them? Is yellen saying she's going to raise them or back to "negative rates is a serious possibility"? It's been 2 hours so I'm sure she switched it.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Harmless_Venom
You think low interest rates are the cause of the bull market and not record earnings and revenues for public companies?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@King_Martha
record earnings and revenues for public companies?
Are you talking about corporate bond sales being at a high? What makes you think businesses are doing better than ever?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@haveahappyday
He literally just said revenue and earnings you imbecile

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@haveahappyday
http://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-earnings/ Real EPS were at all time highs in 2013 and 2014 and we have not significantly dipped.

http://www.yardeni.com/pub/YARDENICHARTBOOKDAILY.PDF Forward EPS are at all time highs.

Why do you think it's artificial?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Sharpcharm
The snp500 measures stocks not revenues so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Why do you think interest rates are low if we're doing so well?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@DeathDog

http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metacrs9044/m1/1/high_res_d/IP0281G.pdf

This is a link to the report handed directly to President Reagan.

Case closed, samefagging shills.

"Resistance to additional income taxes would be even
more widespread if people were aware that:
o One-third of all their taxes is consumed
by waste and inefficiency in the Federal
Government as we identified in our
survey.
o Another one-third of all their taxes
escapes collection from others as the
underground economy blossoms in direct
proportion to tax increases and places
even more pressure on law abiding taxpayers,
promoting still more underground
economy -- a vicious circle that must be
broken.
o With two-thirds of everyone's personal
income taxes wasted or not collected,
100 percent of what is collected is
absorbed solely by interest on the
Federal debt and by Federal Government
contributions to transfer payments. In
other words, all individual income tax
revenues are gone before one nickel is
spent on the services which taxpayers
expect from their Government. "

King_Martha
King_Martha

@RumChicken

No. Libertarians do not advocate a publicly owned Fed. You don't know what you're talking about.

and understanding it is your burden, not ours. Go educate yourself, and learn how to argue without samefagging, trolling and name calling.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Gigastrength

Bernie Sanders
any individual
should be able to control interest rates

dude, you're in over your head.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Gigastrength

What if I told you inflation is the only restriction on monetary policy?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Ignoramus
The snp500 measures stocks not revenues so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Surely the companies (the stocks) that constitute the SP500 have revenues and earnings, right? That's what those data sources show. If you were to take each of the 500 companies' EPS and multiply it by the percentage they represent in the SP500, you can arrive at the overall EPS of the SP500. Surely high earnings and revenues mean businesses are doing well? At least the SP500 businesses? The CHARTBOOKDAILY document also shows record high forward earnings and forward revenues for SP400 (mid cap) and SP600 (small cap). Surely 1500 companies doing well can be a proxy for the overall business climate?

Why do you think interest rates are low if we're doing so well?

Well, the Fed attempts to explain this stuff. http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/monetary/20160921a.htm

Here are some quotes:

Information received since the Federal Open Market Committee met in July indicates that the labor market has continued to strengthen and growth of economic activity has picked up from the modest pace seen in the first half of this year.

The Committee expects that, with gradual adjustments in the stance of monetary policy, economic activity will expand at a moderate pace and labor market conditions will strengthen somewhat further.

Against this backdrop, the Committee decided to maintain the target range for the federal funds rate at 1/4 to 1/2 percent. The Committee judges that the case for an increase in the federal funds rate has strengthened but decided, for the time being, to wait for further evidence of continued progress toward its objectives.

A lot of that press release seems to indicate that the primary reason why the fed funds rate is being kept low is because inflation is under their 2% threshold.

I think interest rates are low here because of the low fed funds rate and because they're low globally. The ECB and BoJ have been continuing to engage in QE.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Deadlyinx

This poster literally never read about the panics of 1873, 1907, etc.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Ignoramus

How did we get by before a Federal Reserve?

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Sharpcharm

The economy was vastly less complex.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Emberburn

Is that a joke?

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Gigastrength

"top ten" journals agree that "central banking" is a good thing

In other words, in your secluded universe, the "top ten" excludes any heretical non-Keynesian ideas.

Well, you sure showed me! Yes, central, bureaucratic control of the economy is a GREAT idea, and only (insert 10-year-old name calling here) would disagree!

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Stupidasole
for example: in ausland our reserve bank (equivalent of the fed) is independent of the federal govt (i.e. not controlled by parliament) but owned and ran (so the statement goes) for the public good.

that being said, all monetary policy has done (and can do) over the past years is to encourage investment, despite the fact that that investment has gone straight into non-productive assets (housing, and in this country there's a massive tax loophole for property investors, thank you rich and wealthy bankers!) and propped up the FIRE sector at the expense of more productive industries and the economy at large

now in the event of a viva la revolucion, you'd want to be able to publicly control the banking system, similar to how iceland did it a few years ago

macrobusiness.com.au (personally HnH is the most preachy of the bloggers but he makes for a good read, and the rest of them are guns)

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Sharpcharm
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banking_crises, it looks like we got by, before a Federal Reserve, with banking crises in the US once every other decade.

TechHater
TechHater

@TalkBomber

No. The economy was vastly less complex prior to modern banking.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@CouchChiller
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banking_crises

Looks like everything became significantly worse after we got off the gold standard.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@eGremlin

The gold standard was no longer viable, do you actually understand why we left the gold standard user?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@TechHater

Markets are markets regardless of whether you're selling pomegranates at a bazaar or first mega bank is selling collateralized debt obligations to second mega bank.

You guys make markets sound more complicated than they actually are. I think this stems from you guys not actually knowing anything. Can markets become more sophisticated? I guess in the way that certain financial vehicles are used that incorporate multiple parties being affected, but the underlying economic rules are fundamentally the same. They don't change.

Sophisticated financial vehicles existed before the advent of the Fed.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Poker_Star
I'm not trying to say that the sp500 is full of low profit corporations. If they were then they wouldn't be in the sp500. I'm saying keeping bond yields low has moved investors into the stock market which has inflated it. that and businesses selling bonds to buy back shares.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Stupidasole

Markets are markets regardless of whether you're selling pomegranates at a bazaar or first mega bank is selling collateralized debt obligations to second mega bank.

You know how I know you have zero education in economics past macro/micro 101 at best?

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Sir_Gallonhead

You know how I know you know nothing but enjoy pretending you do on the internet?

Further, I have a law degree and an MBA. Yes, I took macro and micro. No, I don't have an undergrad degree in economics.

However, I seriously doubt that you do as well. But continue with your false bravado and supercilious attitude. I want to see how long you can keep it up by saying nothing at all.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Nojokur

http://www.yardeni.com/pub/FOFEQBND.PDF shows, over the last 10 years, equity funds (mutual funds and ETFs) have grown from $3T to $4T. Bond funds have grown from $1.5T to $3.4T. Do you perhaps have data that shows that a ton of people are moving to hold individual stocks? It doesn't seem to me like there's a huge rotation of investors into equities.

http://www.yardeni.com/pub/FOFCORPFIN.PDF shows that, post crisis, non-financial new bond issues are growing from about $500B/yr to $750B/yr and that non-financial new equity issues are sort of stagnant between $50B/yr and $100B/yr. But, none of these look like the financials bond bubble prior to the 2008 crash.

My earlier points of pointing out earnings and revenues was to also (implicitly) point out that the SP500 price/forward earnings ratio doesn't really scream that we're in a bubble. Do you have some other indicator you look at?

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Ignoramus
Maybe because the state has a monopoly on currency creation.

Buttcoin is the first non-state currency that the feds haven't shut down because they realize that the world isn't going to put up with their shit anymore (and they sorta think the blockchain could be good for regulating things).

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Soft_member

law degree and an MBA
on le internet arguing about economics ~midnight on a Tuesday

Also

MBA

All opinions about economics automatically discarded.

I only minored in econ before I changed majors from IR, but I took macro and micro as one class, moved onto intermediate, then did International Macroeconomics and Finance.

tossin out dem five dolla words when you trying to sound smart

If you can't admit that markets have become massively more complex since WW2, which happened post great depression, which led to modern globalism and the internet then we really have nothing to say to one another.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@farquit

CTR incoming.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@viagrandad

Lol. Maybe you need to read a book.

Do you even know what a Federal Reserve Note is, or a Treasury Note? Do you understand how money works?

How about taking this opportunity to learn something instead of being nasty and calling names like a 9 year old?

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Stupidasole

1) The profits come from real labor and profits.
2) The profits are "returned" by the issuance of a Fed check from the Fed account. That account has a zero balance. In other words, they "return" the profits by stealing from you yet again through inflation.
3) The President is handed a list of acceptable candidates, and is forced to pick one - preferably the name at the top of the list.
4) No for-profit corporation on Earth gets away with not even having to file a tax return, having no budget (how can we know what their profit is without one?), virtually totally secret meetings, and having zero accountability.

Example: $16T, the entire GDP of the US, printed and handed to another central bank with ZERO notification of the constituency.

All okey-dokey with you, huh? Please go to Cyprus and bless them with your genius.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Ignoramus
Why do people (if you can call libertarians people) have such an irrational hatred of the Federal Reserve?

If they knew how the FED and financial system in general operate, they wouldn't be libertardians in the first place.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@LuckyDusty
No lol. New Classicals agree, Monetarists agree, Post-Keynesians agree, even fucking Hayek agreed that we should have a central bank.

@haveahappyday
He was talking about how libertarians want the Fed to adhere to congress, which would allow retarded senators (like Bernie) to control it.

@cum2soon
So fucking what?

@Poker_Star
If they knew how the world worked then they wouldn't be libertarians.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@King_Martha
When you borrow at 0% interest, your cost of capital tends to be low. Thus high earnings.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Ignoramus

It's almost impossible to not use government funds when the government has it's snout in basically everything.

Just because evangelicals find some of her philosophy appealing, for whatever reason, doesn't make her philosophy flawed.

Your communism and objectivity comparison still doesn't make any sense. collectivism vs individual rights

did you actually read the books or are you just spewing shit you heard from CNN ?

Illusionz
Illusionz

@CodeBuns

we are lol- ing at your shit economy btw

Greece the utopia for big government socialists

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Ignoramus
I suppose it is justified for her to use government services because it could be welfare maximizing for her to do it, even if those state organs are a net cost to society.

What makes t wrong to use government to take out competitors? From a larger view, it is noncompetitive. However, from the individual actor's point of view, it makes sense to use the law to illegalize competitors than compete for consumers.

If you are really wondering why that is an undesirable way for society to advance, t makes sense why libertarians seem opaque to you.

farquit
farquit

@Poker_Star
What if the next best alternatives for investment were all quite shitty?

For a non-US example: the Chi ESE government prohibits several investment instruments available outside of China. With the resulting market distortion for domestic investment, large numbers of Chinese invest in alternatives such as housing or real estate abroad.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Emberburn
Markets have become more complex in which way, though? Is it actually more complex, or is it just larger in size due to more participants? I lean towards increased participation.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Nojokur
WHAT FEAR MONGERI G YOU FUCKING IDIOT! they change the interest rates whenever the fuck they want first of all based on notheing other thatn "how much can we take before riots" and 2nd of all my wife made me take a faggot tour of that fuckibg shithole in kc. I been a salesman and i know when im being sold. And in their faggot shill vidya they said WE ARE A BANK FOR BANKS.

What "fear mongering" faggot.

Its simple goddamn math and accounting.

In my lifetime (30 years) i have seen this country go from being (you can work hard and have a good time) to social programs that cant even oay the first generation that soent their lives paying in! 2% is a good investment tho...

Oh well, now we need defined contribution plans (ie 401k) for retirement.

U gonna trust your retirement to a stock market????? BAHAHAHAAAAA! sure...

Dont mind the fact that mutual funds are LEGALLY allowed to just not report operating fees. Meaning all these hedge fund managers are rich because they made 40% gains on YOUR money and gave u enought to barely beat inflation.

Suck my fucking dick and argue when u can make some fucking sense faggot.

get on my level
or gtfo

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Gigastrength
Was that when they kept trying to fuck with my money by making 2 feds that failed?

Buzy at work and my give a fuck level to look it up is barely over that. I might latter.

TechHater
TechHater

@King_Martha
go educate yourself
read the thread, they were discussing a publicly owned Fed at the start

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@CouchChiller
First Bank of the United States
19th century
Second Bank of the United States
20th century
Jesus Christ, kill yourself

1907 was the reason why they created the Fed in the first place, dumbass. Unless putting one banker directly in charge of solving recessions (J.P. Morgan) is a good solution to your fear mongering about "muh big banks"

Nojokur
Nojokur

@BlogWobbles
fiscal entitlements are out of proportions
clearly monetary policy is to blame

Dude are you even trying

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@LuckyDusty
Milton Friedman said there should be a central bank
Hayek said there should be a central bank
John Maynard Keynes said there should be a central bank
Karl Marx said there should be a central bank

Snarelure
Snarelure

@SomethingNew
I never said there was a bond bubble. Our whole monetary plan is to move investors into riskier assets. Maybe it didn't work and there is no bubble because inflation is so low it still is drawing many foreign/domestic buyers, as your second paragraph suggests. It's not like bond buyers have a good market globally.

@Poker_Star
What's up with Veeky Forums thinking you're a tinfoil-hatter for questioning the fed? wsj, fox business, cnn money all debate their actions. Those aren't lolbertarian media outlets.

TechHater
TechHater

@Snarelure
You can have a discussion about the Federal Reserve's actions. For fucks sake there's even internal disagreement within the Fed- Eric Rosengren, Janet Yellen, and Narayana Kocherlakota don't think the same way.

The opponents of the Fed in this thread aren't making typical criticisms of the Fed- something you could see Larry Kudlow or Rick Santelli saying. They aren't saying privatizing the Fed would be a good thing and then presenting a clear argument. Their arguments against the Fed and their arguments on monetary policy are retarded.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Ignoramus
I keep reading about how the fed is privately owned and controlled by the jews and the Rotschilds but I've never seen any proof of this.
So far my understanding is that there's 12 federal reserve banks in the USA but who truly owns them ?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Snarelure
commercial banks own the stocks of the federal reserve. The Rothschilds own a lot of shares in the banks that have shares in the fed, but so do a lot of other people.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Snarelure

You will never see any evidence to this effect produced, but you will hear it repeated ad infinitum.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Stupidasole
fed prints trillions through QE to give to commercial banks
they used this money to buy fed bank shares
the fed funds itselfs

wat

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Illusionz
It's hard to tell when there's 100 different conspiracy theories but this is taken off the feds own website:
For instance, each of the 12 Reserve Banks operates within its own particular geographic area, or District, of the United States, and each is separately incorporated and has its own board of directors. Commercial banks that are members of the Federal Reserve System hold stock in their District's Reserve Bank.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Snarelure
@Stupidasole
So your biggest problem with the Fed is that the bankers are in control of it and therefore control the economy

Therefore, your alternative is to return to a 1907 system, where we have to rely on a single banker like J.P. Morgan to control the entire health of the economy

There are legitimate arguments about the actions of the Fed and even the existence of the Fed and I have yet to see one posted in this thread

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Lunatick
I simply said who owns the fed and you took it as me wanting to go back to 1907.

Inmate
Inmate

@Lunatick
Bankers aren't in control of the Fed lol, they may own stock, but that means nothing.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Nojokur
Lol.

Whatever mang. Im 30 and will retire at 31 in may.

Stay poor faggot

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Inmate
I'm not saying that they're in control of shit. I'm just speaking hypothetically. If their arguments were legit, which they aren't, they'd still be shit because the alternative to no Fed is JP Morgan circa 1907

cum2soon
cum2soon

@haveahappyday
So then, pray tell, what is your alternative?

If you have a central bank, how would you organize it differently than today?

takes2long
takes2long

@Fuzzy_Logic
If theyd get rid of this fractional spending bullshit and let the investors in charge instead of greedy beurocrats weed be fine.

It took uncle sam 3 tried to get it right and we are hearded to ww3 cause of it.

SUCK MY FUCKING DICK IDIOT.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@BinaryMan
State capitalism naturally leads to an authoritarian state

That's kinda ironic seeing that the slow demise of state capitalism and support for smaller gov resulted in a wealthy few being able to fund and "support" politicians to enact policies favorable to few.

massdebater
massdebater

@cum2soon
SIMPLE

MONEY BACKED BY TANGIBLE WELTH LIKE DIAMONDS GOLD OR SILVER OR EXOTIC ANIMALS. WTF EVER.

1:1 LENDING RATIO.

ALOWING THE FUCKING BANK TO TAKE 1 DOLLAR OF MY SAVINGS AND LOAN 20 IS GODDAMN LUNACY.

WHAT IF 2 OF US WANT OUR MONEY?

OH USE ANOTHER ACCOUNT.

WHAT IF WE ALL WANT IT. 20X OF CUSTOMERS NET WORTH OWED.

EPIC FAIL

Evilember
Evilember

@Bidwell
but it's not

Firespawn
Firespawn

@cum2soon
Are you trolling or do you struggle with reading comprehension?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Garbage Can Lid

Karl Marx said there should be a central bank

One of these things is not like the other, comrade...

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Bidwell
you dont know shit. Would probably be my answer

eGremlin
eGremlin

@massdebater
The issue with that is everyone's quality of life would drop. Right now there is "free" money being pumped into the system, which is fantastic. Right now anyway.

That is until the penny drops that the debt is so collossal it can never be paid back without imploding the global economy. The interest on the debt will be paid by our future productivity. So essentially we are loading up on cheap money and then giving the responsibility of paying it all back to our children and grandchildren.

It's not a sustainable situation, but hey, we will probably all be dead when the problem finally crystallises. This is all a case for owning hard assets outside of the monetary system as insurance. Muh gold.

legal disclaimer: I have no formal economics background. The statements made above are not intended to constitute financial advice.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Ignoramus
because for 50+ years the rand corporation and their ilk have been peddling the idea that humans advance more when they compete so sharing is looked down upon in the higher echelons of society and taught to you and the rest of the plebs.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@massdebater
commodity currency leads to deflation
no one would bank with a full reserve bank, they would keep cash on hand or use unregulated shadow banks
with little money in the banking system, little investment would be done and economic growth would slow down
banks can lend amongst themselves to cover depositors

askme
askme

Most hatred stems from ignorance

eGremlin
eGremlin

@King_Martha
@farquit
@viagrandad

samefag shilling in this thread is intense

@massdebater
appeal to authority
Literally not an argument

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Ignoramus
"hey Rand, do you want this money back we took from you?"
"nahhhh, you guys can just keep that"

dumbasses

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Harmless_Venom

he didn't reply to this one

kek. this thread is shit. let it slide

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@eGremlin
appeal to authority
Yeah if 9/10 doctors tell me to not jump off a bridge I should do it anyways because that's a fallacy.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@takes2long
no fractional reserve banking
So you want to go to the area before the 1800s in essence?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@massdebater
advocating commodity currency in the current year

Commodity currency caused the Great Depression to be so bad in America because of the resulting deflation

MPmaster
MPmaster

@TurtleCat
Karl Marx is an economist whether I like to admit it or not as a capitalist

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Ignoramus
why arent librarians people?
i like librarians

eGremlin
eGremlin

@MPmaster

Karl Marx doesn't advocate central banking you dingus. Under Communism money itself is eventually phased out, and the practice of usury is to die long before it.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@massdebater
ALOWING THE FUCKING BANK TO TAKE 1 DOLLAR OF MY SAVINGS AND LOAN 20 IS GODDAMN LUNACY.

Nope, that's a necessary condition for economic growth.

MONEY BACKED BY TANGIBLE WELTH LIKE DIAMONDS GOLD OR SILVER OR EXOTIC ANIMALS. WTF EVER.

Money is a commodity. Why should the price of a commodity be artificially tied to another commodity? We have prices determined through markets.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Raving_Cute
Nope, that's a necessary condition for economic growth.
thats not true at all

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@King_Martha

not necessary
Lol shut the fuck up

StonedTime
StonedTime

Who knew so much of Veeky Forums was cucked to the fed. There's no reason any person or group shouldn't be allowed to issue their own currency. If the currency isn't as good as the Fed's then no one will use it, no problem. But everything like e-gold and the liberty dollar get shut down by the government, using their monopoly on violence to maintain a monopoly on money. Now that we've created crypto currencies that can't be shut down easily we don't have to argue about who should control the national money because there can be multiple decentralized forms of money.

Also Hayek was not in favour of a central bank, he only had recommendations about how they should work seeing as they were so prevalent.
I do not believe that we would have major industrial fluctuations if it were not for the present banking system, which in turn depends on the government monopoly of the supply of money. I have been driven into proposing the denationalization of money. (Conversations with Great Economists, p. 10)

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@AwesomeTucker
You should show him the current money supply chart. If it were tied to a relative commodity (like oil) and not fiat like it is. Austrian economics would of completely compromised the dollar by now.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Ignoramus
to be fair, the federal reserve DID exceed its legal sphere when it brought the US out of the recession.

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