This is Blind!Asgore He's like that one chick from KOTOR 2 that sees through the force
Alexander Jones
morning
Cameron Wilson
>monsters can steal human souls >they can become aberrations like flowey >killing them all is somehow evil deepest lore it's like the entire game was put together by some kind of monster sympathizer
Owen Garcia
>175062371 >>they can become aberrations like flowey I see someone didn't finish the game
Benjamin Murphy
Morning utg! Hope you guys have a good Wednesday! Thanks Twitter user!
Jayden Lee
It was written by a dog, what did you expect?
Bentley Hall
My biggest question is how the monsters would convince humans that, as the monster population increases on the surface and monsters continue to coexist with human society, that as time moves forward that there wouldn't be a single instance of a monster killing a human to take their soul and becoming godlike after only taking a few more, as Flowey did.
How do you prevent something like this? This is why the humans went to war with the monsters in the first place.
Colton Ramirez
Its a video game and not real. If you can accept that magic and time travel is real in this universe you can accept that monsters and humans can co-exist
Brandon Foster
Chill out
Caleb Fisher
Realistically? No. But at the same time, realistically, Frisk and Chara would have been dead on impact. At some points you have to suspend your disbelief, otherwise a lot of the story just collapses under itself.
Christian Russell
Morning /utg/. Got done with the one where Sans makes contact with Gaster. Now on to the one where Undyne and /pol/ack Alphys meet some definitely-not-feminists. Any input for comedic details to add before it gets written up?
Jacob Sanchez
monsters and humans were able to live together before paranoia drove the humans to wage war against them, they could do it again
also, asriel describes sharing control of his body with chara after absorbing their soul, and the souls he takes in as flowey ultimately rebel against him, it seems like controlling a human soul is very difficult and risky
Xavier Jenkins
No, those are different. Magic and time travel are not consistent with the real world, but they are consistent within the game. Suspending your disbelief for them isn't that hard. But the game shows that some monsters are willing to take a human's soul for really dumb selfish reasons, like the Mad Dummy. That makes it a problem of internal consistency, which is much harder to accept.
Thomas Hernandez
I swear Undertalefags are the most whiny group out there. I've never seen idiots try and declare a canon happy ending as non canon because its not edgy enough for them
Angel Wright
It's just Charafags and Genocidefags looking for (you)s. Ignore them
Joshua Campbell
r & i
Gavin Hernandez
We're just bored and bitter, user. It's getting close to the 2-year anniversary and Toby still hasn't done jack shit about any of the kickstarter goals, or even some of the backer rewards like "Papyrus's Cool Song" for that matter.
Nolan Collins
Get some sleep
Austin Powell
Reminder that Sans is a tortured abuser who is very abusive and violent towards friends and loved ones but apologizes for it and threatens to kill himself if you try to change him so it's okay Reminder that Mettaton is a bullied woobie who needs your help to fight the forces keeping him down and also cares about and loves and listens to loved ones all the time Reminder that the Undyne we see in Undertale is just faking it she's really justy a vulnerable weak-willed girl who needs a powerful man to love Reminder that Flowey has a huge flower cock and he just loves to rape people with it
Nicholas Jenkins
What about Asgore and Alphys
Isaac Gonzalez
Of course it's canon (and I think Toby tweeted you're supposed to take it at face value), but it's a bit of a hole in the writing. Finding a way to resolve it would make it more believable.
Kevin Sullivan
I want my happy ending to make sense
Ryan Collins
Monsters on the whole are chill Humans Co exist to some degree with the host so it's unlikely that you could end the world unless you found a monster and seven humans who wanted it bad enough but that's not even weird in lots of setting with magic and demons and shit Humans are more peaceful and wacky for the most part like in earthbound Frisk is there to look after humans with the power of resets and when Frisk dies Flowey will absorb his soul and the two can be immortal time buddies that look after the peace of both humans and monsters
Pick and combine any of the above. I like the Frisk and Flowey time cop one myself
Luke Cox
Fake characters made up by secondaries
Alexander Taylor
If you really get technical, there's really no other solution than either letting go and assuming peaceful cohabitation, killing all of them, some kind of seclusion/ghetto, or some kind of magic/tech solution to block the soul absorption
Your choice on which is happiest to you.
Noah Garcia
Well that's boring
Gavin Butler
barely related, but this reminds me of a theory I've seen floating around, where Undertale, the game we played, is already a bastardized version. Toby Fox is such a genius that he anticipated what the fandom would do with his game and purposely 'corrupted' his original vision to its extremes.
This 'Undertale Prime' is the original Undertale, of which even the game we played is merely an already fandom-twisted version.
Sebastian Gomez
I think I remember that theory. It was something about how the game is too positive and not dark enough, right?
I blame genocide for being too edgy and attracting all the edgelords.
Nathan Taylor
...
Luke Edwards
Basically, the game is too positive, it doesn't take itself seriously enough and the 'villains' are sympathetic instead of one-note. All of these are attributed to things the fandom would have done anyway and Toby was just ahead of the curve.
It's basically an Undertale theory made by Jaden Smith
Adam Kelly
...
Asher White
Yeah it's the lipstick. That Undyne looks a lot better than the others. The lipstick makes her look like a cheap whore.
Cooper Kelly
Yeah that's dumb and doesn't even make sense. Like what's the point of this theory? Maybe i'm just a weirdo that needs a reason to care about something but its on the same tier as people who try and claim that beta stuff is somehow more canon than stuff that made it into the actual game.
Ayden Bailey
It's a mostly working model, so I'll give it credits for that, but it's not true. Undertale started out as a JRPG battle system with a Shin Megami Tensei-like mechanic to allow you to resolve fights peacefully, to satisfy the urge to talk to monsters and learn about their backstories. The original idea behind the game (from even before the decision to make killing completely unnecessary) was to make NPCs and enemies into actual characters.
The result is a JRPG with complex enemies you can befriend, but it was not based on a separate concept for a more traditional game. It was designed like this from the start.
Ethan Robinson
Funny enough, the theory doesn't really go into the mechanics, it dealt with it purely on a narrative level. Like, Prime Papyrus is just Skeletor, but since fandom would soften him up anyway, Toby went ahead and did it in advance. It basically argued that in this dark and serious Undertale Prime, all the bosses are to be killed without mercy or remorse, pacifism is morally repugnant, Frisk should have killed everyone attacking them, because only that makes sense. The mechanics aren't explored at all, just the story and characters.
Michael Gomez
Well we already know what prime Papyrus would've been like until Toby realized it would be obnoxious and wouldn't jive well with the whole attack or mercy setup his battle system had going on so it's not right
But I do think it's still kind of interesting
Dominic Gonzalez
wtf is Dien Bien Phu? semikon and other jap undertale artists keep posting about it
A theory that talks about how fans bastardize characters doesn't mention Sans and Toriel. Did Soriel write this?
Landon Howard
Genuine origin coming through
Lincoln Scott
I like how his prime Asgore is just normal Asgore but a bit less goofy. Asgore confirmed best goat
also its weird they didn't mention Flowey or Asriel at all I don't understand what this is. Is it just a shit post or...?
Logan Howard
Soriel's been active since Dec 2015?
Nathaniel Campbell
He used the word Sympathetic for Asgore instead of deserves to be hated by everyone and should be killed somehow post TP so it can't be Soriel.
Jack Adams
I don't even care anymore
Christian Perry
Liar, you cared enough to post here that you didn't care, caring enough to let us know you didn't care.
Christopher Wright
bro stop blowing my cover
Kevin Allen
bruh stop being an attention-seeking homofag
Camden Campbell
I can blow you instead :^)
Ryan Rogers
Jesus, sorry I offended you so much.
Jordan Murphy
...
Carter Williams
Canon
Cameron Reyes
That's what I was thinking would be most likely. If human souls in the Undertale universe keep their consciousnesses, then they could rebel if they were suddenly killed and absorbed.
But what if humans who become friends or family with monsters suddenly die and their monster friends or siblings decide to absorb their souls to keep them from disappearing? In that case there might be humans that allow this to happen so they don't die. Then you have a bunch of Dreamer Reborns running around.
Or what if a monster becomes deranged and sadistic like Flowey and decides to make some kind of cult centered around creating an ultimate being? Crazy suicidal religious nuts could line up to offer their souls to their monster demigod and they wouldn't rebel. Then what happens?
I understand a lot of this is fridge logic but I don't care, it's worth making theories about.
Ayden Roberts
>Or what if a monster becomes deranged and sadistic like Flowey and decides to make some kind of cult centered around creating an ultimate being? Crazy suicidal religious nuts could line up to offer their souls to their monster demigod and they wouldn't rebel. Then what happens? A hero will stop it. I mean this kind of stuff happens all the time in fantasy settings and in comics but most people have just accepted that its part of the setting.
Jose Thomas
The reverse is also true. A monster slights a deranged human, human sneaks in and fucking kills the entire family with no difficulty. The vaccuum cleaner industry experiences a booming resurgence.
Christian Baker
Phil Collins' solo career>Genesis
Sebastian Brooks
Truth.
Matthew Price
The problem is that this stuff would be so easy. It's one thing if you can summon a demonic being using magical gemstones and tomes of forbidden knowledge and the blood from twenty virgins, because that puts a natural limit on how frequently somebody is going to do that, but the soul thing can canonically be successfully done by two kids fucking around without their parents noticing.
Ryder Foster
>but the soul thing can canonically be successfully done by two kids fucking around without their parents noticing. We must have very different meanings of the word successful. Besides you also have TP Frisk who is canonically stronger than a seven soul monster so they would be there to stop any of that bullshit.
Luis Ross
>We must have very different meanings of the word successful. They successfully became an extra strong combined being that could probably have killed humans had it wanted to. The actual soul absorption was successful, the plan failed later. >Besides you also have TP Frisk who is canonically stronger than a seven soul monster so they would be there to stop any of that bullshit. He won by convincing Asriel (who had only just regained his positive emotions but still had an omnicidal habit) to stop, not by his strength. His strength alone could have gotten him a stalemate at best.
In both cases the reason it failed is that Asriel is fundamentally a nice and kind person, which is not something that applies to every villain.
Jose Williams
Hey guys. the polls are showing a pretty definitive answer right now but I'll post it one more time for anyone else that might've missed it - Whether or not we should change anything about our roster/goalhorns/anthems for VGL Season 8
If you believe the UI, Asriel had "infinite" attack and defense. But it must be lying because in the game's files, Asriel's attack is actually below 10. Makes me think that maybe his "godlike" power wasn't actually godlike, just high enough to eclipse anything Frisk could have done in that moment. Perhaps an adult human would have stood more of a chance?
Sebastian Baker
I think your underestimating Frisk. They're pretty much jesus at this point and can most likely convince anyone to do anything.
What are you looking for here? Yeah if you make up some situation you can come up with one where everyone is fucked but what's the point? You can do that for a lot of things including real life. Just accept that its a game and that TP is all about hoping that things work out for the best and hell judging by the TP ending and the Q&A it does so don't worry about it.
Even if it somehow it doesn't then it was worth it to try wasn't it? Better to have optimism for the future then to let your pessimism lead you to doing something horrible like genocide. I mean really if you want to go there then the best solution for the planet earth is for the humans to all be killed and for the monsters to take over. god like in Undertale is a little g not a capital G. They aren't omnipotent just really strong
Andrew Watson
>I think your underestimating Frisk. They're pretty much jesus at this point and can most likely convince anyone to do anything.
You know, I don't mind thinking of them as walking-talking determination, but that's a little bit of a stretch. I really doubt they, or an adult human could have stood any serious chance against a godlike monsters, it's only by luck that they're facing such a very specific one.
Calm down, jesus. I get it, you're looking at the better outcome, others look for a realistic one, even if that realism is tenouous in this universe at best. For the record, I fucking hate the 'all humans are bastards' fantasy trope and it's one of the reasons I like to assume a better outcome, but there's nothing wrong with just tossing ideas about, even if not ideal.
Connor Hughes
...
Michael Rivera
I am calm though? Relax dude i'm not saying your wrong or anything i'm just saying that the ending is already shown as being happy so that 'more realistic stuff' just didn't end up factoring into it and its a bit silly to get hung up on it. If it really bothers you that much then just do genocide or one of the neutral endings and pretend that's canon,
Easton Diaz
Making his attack literally infinity in the game's code might have been possible, if it's stored as a float, but it's not something you'd ever want to actually do. His attack in the game's code doesn't indicate anything.
I'm looking for a working solution to the problem. I have vague plans to write something that would be improved by a believable solution. I think the TP ending canonically works out whether it actually could work or not, but this problem makes it less believable. The better the solution, the more satisfying the ending is. Some of the solutions people posted here are better than what I could come up with on my own.
Plus it's fun to speculate.
Ayden Wood
>looking for a working solution Mine is time cop Frisk and then when Frisk dies Flowey absorbs their soul and they dedicate their new combo lives to protecting everyone's smiles. Over a couple of decades other humans are cool and want to help out so Flowey ends up getting seven souls all dedicated to helping everyone out and then you have a superman style situation >Plus it's fun to speculate. I never said you shouldn't
Ethan Phillips
I'm not the person you were arguing with, you just started veering straight off into straight-out sperging. Going for a less than idea exploration is fine, there are lingering questions that would need to be canon.
>If it really bothers you that much then just do genocide or one of the neutral endings and pretend that's canon, That's a really damn limited scope, if it's either full-on-rainbows TP or neutral/genocide.
>I think the TP ending canonically works out whether it actually could work or not, but this problem makes it less believable. The better the solution, the more satisfying the ending is. Some of the solutions people posted here are better than what I could come up with on my own.
I kinda think it was on purpose. If you chain it with what Asriel says, he does note that not everything can be resolved by just being nice, and the glimpses of TP shenanigans are hopeful, but those words are meant to always linger in the back of your mind. The only thing I dislike is the usual 'every human is racist except for [protagonist and a couple more]'. It really is kind of cliche and overused at this point. Other than that, I'm cool with different ideas.
Landon Torres
Would you still love your fave if they were 8 and they weren't eating their whole meal and instead storing large portions of it to be eaten later even though they had been told many times that they don't have to worry about not being fed anymore
Alexander Diaz
>you just started veering straight off into straight-out sperging. I wasn't really sperging. I'm sorry if you read it that way but I wasn't saying you were wrong or that you shouldn't be coming up with fun stuff to explain whatever you want I was just saying that the game already gives answers and its kind of silly to doubt that as if it was lying or trying to trick you. Here i'll stop responding after this post though if it makes you feel better. Maybe i'm not understanding enough of what you're doing and i'm talking about the wrong stuff. Sorry if so
Brody Reed
Dude, I was not the person you were arguing with. Nobody said the game is lying or tricking just, the user was just throwing out ideas and you started getting a little more combative than necessary. You don't have to back out or anything, I'm just saying you may have taken it a bit more to heart than you needed to.
It's cool senpai.
Justin Allen
...
Ryan Howard
...
Jacob Peterson
nice
Charles Ortiz
What if Sans used to be a Jerk City character and that's where he tried to go back to
Xavier Morgan
>just saying you may have taken it a bit more to heart than you needed to. People keep saying that but i'm not really sure where they're coming from. I mean I calmly presented my opinions on it and I even gave some possible solutions here to explain how the whole living in peace thing could work out. I'm interested in hearing other peoples opinion and I want to talk about them and give my point of view. So far though no one has really presented anything so there's not much to talk about aside from what actually happened in the game which is a shame. A lot of my personal headcanon for it is coming from one of those Post TP comics. I forget the name of it but it had Asgore running for mayor or something and a big part of it was that Frisk kept having to reset to stop shit from going down.
By the game lying to you I meant all the criticism that TP wouldn't work when its shown that it does. I wasn't necessarily talking about this conversation specifically but just the whole thing in general. I was unclear about that so my bad.
Angel Gutierrez
Being a human living among monsters before the war! Sharing a home with a group of Boss Monsters! Tilling the field during the day! Growing and selling the crops! Developing a close friendship with a thin boss monster with a huge mane of hair! Working together through the hot summer to build an extension of the house! Drinking in the unfinished bedroom together! Telling stories of your lives before coming here! Discussing leaving behind the destitute homes overtaxed and underpaid by hedonistic royals! Sitting closer to him! The smell of the field and his sweat and his fur filling your nostrils! He gives you the warmest smile you've ever seen and puts an arm around your shoulders! He leans in and gives you a light kiss!
Christopher Bell
and this is the story of why I started human-monster war.
Dominic Hughes
not them but the 'what are you looking for' thing came off as you trying to shut down any speculation
Luke Taylor
Ariel was displeased
Wyatt Lewis
user finding out he was cuckolded by another user and the boss monster he had eyes for! user spreading tales of monsters stealing human souls! user gathering a group of violent radicals! user committing mass murder against the monsters! user dragging screaming monsters out of their home and lining them up in front of their homes! user emerging from the house as flames vomit forth from the open windows to lap at the straw roofs! user carrying in each arm a dangling monster infant! user swinging them by the leg into a pile of rocks, their heads bursting like ripe fruit as they dust across the stones! The parents' wails barely drowned out by the roaring fire that was moments ago their home! user having his compatriots cull the monsters with the club and the spear and the boot and the fist! user chasing them from his homeland like animals! user never finds love as the remnants of that lost tribe of monsters is entombed in a mountain!
Xavier Williams
Oh no my intent with that was asking specially what were they looking for. Like stuff from the game to support TP working, headcanons about why it would work, reasons it wouldn't, how it physically worked out out, like the first 10 years post TP, a month later, dozens of generations later, AUs based on the idea that it didn't work etc. etc
Matthew Carter
Have a romantic night of passion! Waking up with him the next morning! Get up to go take a bath by the river! On the way there, find a spider! It wants money! Talking spider! Ew! Squishing the spider! It turns to dust! Weird! Taking a bath!
Levi Martinez
Who? Boss monsters are gross.
Gabriel Nguyen
CONFIRMED NEW CANON LORE THE WAR STARTED BECAUSE THE CHURCH DECLARED MONSTERS ALL HOMOFAGS IN NEEDING TO BE ERADICATED
Leo Myers
furry twinks > furry baras
Oliver Perry
Normal looking dudes > bara dudes >chubby dudes > twinks