Hey Veeky Forums yesterday i was on here with worries of rod knock in my 1jz and i think...

likme
likme

Hey Veeky Forums yesterday i was on here with worries of rod knock in my 1jz and i think i've narrowed down the problem, as i was getting ready to completely pull the motor apart i noticed the clutch release hub (r154 tranny) is fairly loose and slides around on the pressure plate. The sound it makes when i shake it is exactly like a rod knock, How tight to the pressure plate should these be? In this picture you can see the wear from it sliding(this clutch as less than 20 miles on it)

All urls found in this thread:
https://youtu.be/6qx5tqZQB18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qx5tqZQB18
BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@likme
Can't answer you for that particular setup, but every time I've heard a clutch make noise there's been a noticeable wooshing or scraping noise. You really think it would just tick/knock without having been obvious when you were trying to hunt down the source of the noise?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@BinaryMan
One of my buddy's down at the junkyard said hes seen it where the crank carries the sound to the front of the motor and makes it sound like a rod knock up there, Unfortunately i already pulled the motor so i wont be able to confirm 100% this was it until its back in. Just hoping someone on here can confirm if it should be tight. The sound it makes when i slide it back and forth and it taps the edges is 100% the sound i was hearing and sound exactly like a rod knock. ill post a video of that sound one sec

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@Raving_Cute
https://youtu.be/6qx5tqZQB18
heres the sound

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Lord_Tryzalot
Oh wow, is that yours? I mean I'd really have to go look at an assembly diagram but I unless there's some part that's not installed that's meant to keep the plate centered on the hub that looks like obvious trouble.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Raving_Cute
You already have the motor out so plastigauge your bearings to make sure they are fine, as for the clutch I would take a look at your pilot bearing in the motor, it may be damaged or seized, if it seizes the input shaft on the transmission will be damaged and it will allow the clutch to engauge off center.
Look at the tip of the input shaft and see if it has any wear on it.
This exact thing happened to my Toyota pickup so I installed a new pilot bearing in the engine but I seated it slightly deeper or shallower I can't remember, that way the new bearing it supporting a fresh section of the trannny input shaft.
That or you can take it apart and weld and build up the input shaft nose then machine it back down.

Evilember
Evilember

@Skullbone
Engage* lol

Firespawn
Firespawn

@cum2soon
i followed some aussie on youtube assemble it so im fairly certain i put it together right and i dont think its supposed to contact the input shaft at all. Its a fairly cheap clutch so i think the fingers just might not be thick enough(3.2 mm). If i find out it is supposed to be tight ill probally just through an extra shim in there.That sounds just like rod knock doesnt it:D

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Skullbone
I once forgot to install the pilot bearing during a clutch job and within I don't even know maybe as little as 50 miles started engaging unevenly from wear.

That turned into a long, expensive hunt that went on for long enough that the transmission snout got worn down and I had to live with a throwout bearing rattling around and a hotspotted flywheel for the remainder of the car's life :(

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Flameblow
Lol my friend did this with his Camaro when he swapped motors, forgot to put the pilot bearing in. He sold the car shortly after lmao

FastChef
FastChef

@TurtleCat
What's surprising is I noticed the pilot bearing on the ground the next day and hadn't done much more than drive it around a few blocks to make sure it was good to go. Crazy how fast a little bit of wear where you wouldn't expect there to be much wobble in the first place escalated into the whole damn thing knocking around.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Skullbone
Hmm the input shaft looks unmarred(i have a 2nd to compare to) and the pilot bearing is new, As is the hub bearing, also the clutch was working perfectly the miles i did drive, smooth engagement and good grab.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@whereismyname
Pretty interesting man, maybe that wear pattern is because the teeth on the pressure plate are at a slight angle out and when you push them in with the throwout bearing it brings them straight, which would mean inward.
Kinda hard to word this but I think you will understand.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Firespawn
OK, I think I can imagine what you're saying both sound wise and shimwise. Yeah I guess that could be it. Or are you supposed to adjust the clutch mechanism to make sure it keeps enough pressure on the plate to account for thickness? I mean plate thickness is going to vary anyway, and that's quite a lot of play.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Skullbone
Ive heard cracking open the bottom end can make you prone to failures if you dont use arp and then ive heard of people making 500+kw on reused hardware, whats your take on that
@MPmaster
and its one of the weird pull type clutches, thats why this whole assembly is strange to me:D Im not at all worried about the wear, its just how loose it is on the pressure plate and whether or not it would cause a rod knock like sound that worries me. I pulled the motor expecting an oil pan of shavings so im just trying to narrow down the sound.

@iluvmen
This hub doesn't contact anything underneath so i dont think adjusting the pressure would change that, i think the only thing that holds it tight to the fingers is a wave washer underneath a snap rig, ill pull up a diagram

As always thanks for input guys! Over all my main concern is making sure this was the rod knock sound before i start putting it back together, if this is the sound ill probably just end up getting a nice clutch as this was the $100 ebay special just to get my swap running.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Skullbone
If it's not torque to yield hardware I wouldn't sweat reusing it, fucking Matt happel made 1k horsepower reusing his head bolts and all the other hardware, I wouldn't sweat it unless it's torque to yield.
Just make sure to torque it correctly.

The throwout bearing is loose on the pressure plate?

5mileys
5mileys

@StrangeWizard
okay ill dig in to the toyota trsm and see if they are torque to yield but It just doesn't make sense to me that a bearing could die and not have any metal in the oil/oil filter no matter how early i caught it. and yup here's my video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qx5tqZQB18

sounds just like rod knock right?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@5mileys
That's a strange looking setup, I've never fucked with one of those.
Wouldn't the input shaft prevent the bearing from contacting the pressure plate like that?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@lostmypassword
nope the input shaft just free floats through the bearing and hub and splines into the clutch disc

Methshot
Methshot

@TalkBomber
That's really weird maybe there's supposed to be a plastic bushing or something that broke or rotted out, maybe check the exploded views out.
Something has to stop it from moving around.

takes2long
takes2long

@Methshot
Ive found that the wave washer is weak underneath allowing it to move freely, Now i just need someone to reassure me that it was the rod knock sound i was hearing and not my motor:D Where are all the mk3 supra homies at that's where this transmission is from

StonedTime
StonedTime

@takes2long
You put the cone spring in the correct direction?

StonedTime
StonedTime

@StonedTime
i don't think that would make a difference anyway, the cone spring only controls the lock up between the bearing and the hub. If you look in the picture plate washer, wave washer, and snap ring is what controls lock up between bearing and pressure plate and those go in either way.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@StonedTime
Sounds plausible. How busted is your wave washer? It must need quite a bit of wave at rest to keep all that slack clamped down during normal operation.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Nude_Bikergirl
It honestly does nothing other than act as way to thin of a spacer, i just watched a video and it looks like it should give up a little bit of a fight when your trying to put the snap ring in, as if the snap ring wasn't already a massive pain in the ass:D This release hub is such a horrible design work around

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@SniperGod
I would think more than a little bit of fight if it has to keep the plate from budging around unless that thing is beefy af. The diagram makes it look like it should be pretty thin, but the way your plate knocks around makes me wonder wtf is going on and who would design it like that unless they planned on having the fingers of the plate be curved enough keep tension.

idk I'd have to watch the vids and stuff I guess to make a more intelligent comment.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@SniperGod
btw ever see one of those wooden claptraps with a busted V8 on the back running damn near headerless? Took a tourist tour on one once and idk how they don't all go deaf doing that for a living.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@New_Cliche
hahaha no but i would really really love to, so many questions on how. I want to see the inside of that tranny/outboard so bad.
@BinaryMan
its super thin, less than 1.5mm. Im not sure if the clutch fingers are supposed to support it the hub but i feel like that would be a weak design as that diameter changes with the movement of the fingers

This is the jz in question

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Fried_Sushi
dat big old fashion thin steering wheel
You just don't see those around much anymore. You just don't see too many machines like day to day where it looks like somebody just sat down and wanted to create something beautiful for nothing other than the sake of doing so.

Evilember
Evilember

@Nude_Bikergirl
haha man i just swapped in this nardi to because i thought my swap was done:D that massive wheel size + manual steering is pure bliss highly recommend it. I would pay all the money in the world to have that exact outer body with like 10 bmw engineers designing all the inner workings of the chassis. They definitely did not spend as much time on the rear end because they only design a right control arm, the left side is literally just a right one flipped upside down and it looks so dumb.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Evilember
Oh shit dude you're giving me too many feels. I've never more than really walked by a Supra.
dat leather touch and color
dat era angle of the door handle
dat gauge cowl w/ old lifelike rough plastic action
o shit door handle on the bottom O_O;
DIAL TEMP GAUGE HANGS UPSIDE DOWN

I really miss the manual steering on my first econobox. Nothing like it. Top fucking kek about the control arm. Art and engineering are all about where you have to try to hide the compromises imo.

askme
askme

@Evilember
wheel looks like an 2000 GT's

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

Get one then user, they aren't to expensive, i found this one in texas rust free running for dirt cheap. Some z enthusiasts would have me lynched for what i did to that car, It literally had ever single receipt from day 1 in 1978, all matching everything never modified. oh well though blowing a motor and an asshole landlord that throws out all your documentation definitely will push you towards bastardization

girlDog
girlDog

@BinaryMan
big chrome flip-up door handles
You're raping my youth user, but if that's you, you're enjoying that car the way it was meant to be enjoyed.

Too many fish in the sea and not enough time to waifu them all. Only just enough time to love the ones you're with.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@StonedTime
Not shown here. But most release bearings center on a guide sleeve surrounding the trans input shaft. So, not installed, the release bearing will go 'clunk, clunk' back and forth. But once slipped onto that sleeve, they remain centered.

Check the input shaft sleeve for wear, proper fit, etc.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@iluvmen
Heres my spare input shaft that i use for the clutch, it definitely has room but i just am a bit weary because the sound i hard was very consistent and im wondering if this thing would sound so consistent bouncing randomly

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