Why do people on Veeky Forums gets so triggered whenever this empire is mentioned...

Istanbul. Ionia. Armenian/Greek Genocide. List goes on and on.

because europeans still remember when they were btfo all the way to vienna despite multiple coalition and crusade trying to take down the empire

...

kys

...

It only triggers byzanboos who give too much importance to an old city and ignore things that affected the Byzantine Empire way more than the Ottomans, like the Seljuks, the Fourth crusade, the Latin empire and the civil war of 1341.

Fuck off

westerners should remember it wasnt the Ottomans who blew the fuck out of the Byzantine empire, it was the westerners themselves who did it.

are you le buttmad?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Constantinople

Tbh the byzzies did a pretty good job of btfoing themselves.

How's Turkish coffee? I heard they drink it black with cloves, cinnamon and lots of sugar. Sounds yummy

extremely strong, if you don't already like your coffee black then it'll be practically undrinkable

>what is the latin massacre

byzzieshits bought the 4th crusade on themselves

because it gets mentioned by revisionist tripfag shitposters

Ottomans were cool guys. They BTFO autistic Balkanshits and don't afraid of anything.

All imperialism is wrong. Liberty, and nation states!

Most people drink it with sugar though so its not as bitter as black coffee.
I drink it generally with one cube of sugar that way its bitter and sweet.
If you order turkish coffee it comes in three types which alternate the ount of sugar in it so you'll have choices.

Elections in America are rigged by gerrymandering.
And no one is willing to fix it.

The longer a place have been under Ottoman rule, the shittier it is.

People usually blame problems in the middle east on the Brits and the French, but the backwardness of these areas come from centuries of Ottoman rule, not the couple of decades of British and French rule. Also look at the Balkans. Between countries, and within countries, one can see that development was inversely tied to Ottoman occupation. In Serbia, the northern part that was under Hungary is the most developed part. The ones that stayed longer the Ottomans, is shittier.

Law and order in the Ottoman empire sucked, there were numerous bandits that roamed the countryside which the government never cared to remove. The Kadi judge was know to be unprofessional and judge according to how he felt at the exact moment (bribery, corruption) and didn't really follow any book of law, and nobody held him accountable for it. Not to mention that the Sultan's power was unlimited and so was the power of his officers, which created a very unaccountable governance and hard to predict.

The state of education sucked. The printing press spread all over Europe in a couple of decades. The Ottoman court banned it. In the 18th century almost everyone were illiterate in the empire. While in say Sweden, the majority was literate, maybe up to 90%. There was not any proper schools or profession education either. The guy who built the great cannons of the siege of Constantinople was Hungarian. The Czech were the ones that mass-produced the Fez hat, the most symbolic Ottoman item.

The Ottoman empire was also immoral and cruel. They kidnap the sons of their own subjects and forcefully converted them, and made the majority of them fight their entire life, and have no wife, family or home. They also loved to fuck little boys. They had a whole system of how they kidnapped the sons of their own subjects for a life of prostitution and belly-dancing.

Life in the Ottoman empire was unpredictable, unjust, ignorant and cruel.

they wernt but the people who picticurly hate them usually boil down to: MUZZIES TOOK RIGHTFUL CHRISTIAN LANDS GIVE BACK CONSTANTINOPLE REEEEEEEEEEE

it's a shit /pol/ meme that became popular.

They were pretty based.
Not as awesome as Germany but clearly on the second place in the eternal awesomeness ranking.

>They kidnap the sons of their own subjects

actualy it wasnt even kidnapping, it was a form of tax, they made people pay a official tax in children and they saw absolutely nothig off about that and considered the people revolting against it as strange and unreasonable heathens

>Life in the Ottoman empire was unpredictable, unjust, ignorant and cruel.

it was also bizzarely passive and autistic, other than war and war related stuff, sporadic political conspiracy schemes going avri into failed coups and purges, and the occasional uprising, nothing actualy happened

this reflected in the mentality and culture, in a strange way it was completely chill and relaxed while at the same time rather lazy and submissive, sort of what europeans called 'occidental decadence', a kind of mildly hedonistic inshallah mashallah approach to things, just accepting shit as is and keeping your head down

almost like a entire culture based around comfort-zoning

They were half decent for a while, then when complete ape shit, they became a feudal society pretty quick, at least in the Balkans, with local pashas/beys doing what ever they wanted. This was the major problem, corruption was everywhere and you didn't know if some local bigshot is going to kill you and your entire family. The central authority in Constantinopole wasn't that bad, but they didn't have the power to enforce the law later on. They were barely keeping the empire together so naturally it stagnated, this happens to pretty much all empires, the problem being people memeing that the Ottomans were this great benevolent empire and that they were successors to Rome. They were shit and a large part of their shitty mentality is present in the Balkans today, but at least we got burek and good coffee so im not complaining.

>numbers
Always a constant laugh. Why does the ottoman horde take pride in being a literal meme?

Fuck the French.

I somewhat understand dislike for anything eastern these days, but 20 years ago it would be considered exotic and fascinating. I went to Turkey and Syria on two occasions and the culture and some places are terrific, they go well beyond the passing political circumstances in the West. Many of those places kept their soul. They were always a brutal society military-wise, but don't think they were always this radical or conservative. Ottoman Empire was amazing in its own way, but inefficient and cruel, sending millions to pointless deaths. Turkey is a modern country following Ataturk more or less faithfully, but the memory of the empire is still fresh.

I was sitting on a porch of a mosque in a small city in eastern Turkey watching the flowers in spring color the valley and the mountain beyond in its glory hovering over it with the snowy mountaintop above. The Muslim priest was kind and knowledgable about the history, he told me the mosque was first a church until the 8th century, which I actually realized immidiatelly because of its architecture. Once Turks took over, they turned it into their place of worship, keeping some Christian inscriptions out of respect and he showed me those. The entire town was filled with very kind, patient and curious people that were very hospitable and knowledgable of the world, loving life and living as they are. It actually reminded me of Japan A LOT. There is a ridiculous similarity between Turkey and Japan, especially in those smaller cities. The locals told me about the song of their city, it was very strange feeling listening to this ballad of death and long gone history, it evoked some strange feels. The song tells about the all males of that small town being drafted to go to war all the way to fucking Oman under the sultan's orders. Nobody came back. From what I gathered and that was, I can say, something - they are aware and knowledgeable of who they were, also aware of it. They keep awareness of their former glory

1. they are objectively an empire of evil, unlike most other empires.

2. the fuckign turkposters on this board are always annoying as fuck about spamming this map and t*rkposting where it doesn't belong. Subhuman roach scum.

...

>you have to go back

Hmm, let's hope it's in a damp cave, I would love to hear about your 'revelations'

>The song tells about the all males of that small town being drafted to go to war all the way to fucking Oman under the sultan's orders. Nobody came back.

That's called Yemen Türküsü.

youtube.com/watch?v=XU3AXyZQzQ8

It's Yemen, not Oman. This is the song: youtube.com/watch?v=XU3AXyZQzQ8

But taxation is theft

this

Because there is both a massive spillover from /pol/ and a disproportionate representation of Balkanfaggots on this board

I'm not even from /pol/ senpai

fuck you and everyone who looks like you

>and didn't really follow any book of law, and nobody held him accountable for it.
bullshit.i'm not a defender of kadi jugement but they followed royal decrees and sharia.he also had superiors which he accounted to.

>There was not any proper schools or profession education either.
ottomans followed a system where the master were not schooled but brought up by other masters.

where is the regular guy with the copypasta?

Your mom

Here, for you

Your mom

Its basically retards from /pol/ try to make this place into their second hugbox so anything positive concerning muslims or turks is met with retarded shitposting.
I mean the ottoman empire slowly went to shit after the 17th century but till then it was a good place to live and it united several peoples which before were warring consantly with eachother. That still gives them three centuries where they improved the lives of their subjects.
One example is that the morean greeks petitioned the sultan to take them back after the venetians got the area after treaty of karlowitz.
Or how foreign ambassadors well into the 18th century remarked at how healthy the peasantry looked but you'll have to remember that later in the same century the french revolution started due to the kings not taking care of the peasants.

>Ottoman empire was considered somewhat of a meme empire long before many of the posters on this board were born by western academics

What did you mean by this?

is becauz my friendo is dragging its name in the dirt with his triggering memes n child liek baba and it was pretty mean, no one lik turks. (i dont lik miself or my firendo blatta"

>latins didnu nuffin
Reminder that the Venetian crusade happened.

Reminder that the Latins chimped ao much that a quarter of Constantinople was damaged in the process.

Reminder that catholics sacked Thessalonica.

>I mean the ottoman empire slowly went to shit after the 17th century but till then it was a good place to live and it united several peoples which before were warring consantly with eachother.
>it was a good place to live
Yes, that explains why many of the Christian subjects lived in poverty, had declining birth rates and many of them converted to Islam to avoid heavy taxation.

>Liberty, and nation states!
Which is could go wrong

It's Oman and it wasn't that song, sorry.

Because of the consequences of their empire. Muslims in bosnia,kosovo, albania. Turks in Constantinople and anatolia. The Armenian genocide. The percentage of christians in Egypt is higher than the percentage of christians in turkey.

>byzantines brought the crusade upon themselves
I didn't know Enrico Dandolo has access to the internet.

The only thing I know of the Ottoman kadi is what Max Weber wrote about them as a "charismatic judge" in comparison to the rulebound justice of the west.

However using early 20th century German intellectuals as a source, I might as well use /pol/.

Because there's a disproportionate number of Eastern Europeans, and among us Balkanites (who are very autistic). It appeals to our (and their) autistic lust for historical larping.
Why do you think Yugoslav war threads get over 200 replies?
t. Polack who always shits on g*rmans

Mostly because I never saw an intelligent discussion about the Ottoman empire on Veeky Forums. Usually the Turks start threads with a shitpost intro, and there a re half a dozen shitty replies and then the thread dies.
Simply not worth it. I rather wait for the rare islamic arts threads or non shit versions of Ottoman threads.
>tl:dr turks starting a dozen shit threads a day really killed the subject.

REMOVE KEBAB

REMOVE TURK

YOU ARE WORST TURK

>actualy it wasnt even kidnapping, it was a form of tax, they made people pay a official tax in children
"I'm gonna forcefully take your kids" is the same thing, regardless of legal wording
>and they saw absolutely nothig off
And this is why they were idiots, and to this day turks dont understand why everyone who's ever been in contact with them hates their guts and why in many countries, the term "turk" is synonymous with cruel barbarity, chaoticness, stubbornness and atrocious rule(also smoking)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Turkism#Quotes_and_sayings

bump

Is there some variation with milk, like the Italian "macchiato"?

>Raped and put an end to Byzantine glory
>Barbary slave trade
>They're muslims

None of those are legit arguments

...

>people calling themselves roman emperors marrying off their daughters to tinpot turkic anatolian warlords
>oppressing middle eastern christians because of insecurity that their churches are older than yours
>rioting about the pope when an ottoman army is literally camping outside your walls
>frequent massacres after continual flip-flopping about whether it's okay to draw pictures of people or not
>literally a synonym for obscurantist, conniving, faithless political and bureaucratic systems
>""""""""""""""""byzantine glory"""""""""""""""

i want byzaboos to leave

sick man of europe

>the 4th crusade did so much damage the great and magnificent Byzantines were unable to repair it sufficiently 200 years later

No.

>the great and magnificent Byzantines were unable to repair it sufficiently 200 years later

but that's exactly what happened

there were about 500,000 people in the city in 1204, by the time the byzantines got it back it was around 70,000 which then dwindled to around 50,000 by 1453.

it never recovered, it was irretrievably depopulated after the sack

>What is the Latin Empire

>they're muslims
sounds like a legit argument to me

god damn, this thread is still around?

That's exactly what fucking happened. Have you heard of the fucking Latin Empire?
The ERE was totally crippled.

I think they were pretty cool and are interesting to study but I can't love them because of their role in finishing off the Roman Empire

Yeah, infighting was a serious issue. It's a shame, really.

Today it has 14 million. The Turks surely as hell recovered it. And Greeks want it back, a city with more people than all of Greece.

>The longer a place have been under Ottoman rule, the shittier it is.
>Anatolia is less shit compared to the Middle East

They were goat in the XVI century but after they went to shit and to worst empire of the millenium.

They didn't finish off the Roman Empire, Constantinople was Rome in name only

Russia was in worse social shape when that name was given to the ottomans.
There is a reason that a communist revolution happened in russia.

That's because you're a retard from /pol/ user.

Nope that's italian territory turkish coffee is drank with sugar or black.

Do you have a source for them living such shitty lives before the 17th century ?

>triggered

i think had the empire ended earlier like say 18th century people would hate it less. watching it rot away in 19th is painfull. at least they managed to pull gallipoli even on their dying state

On the other hand, mainstream historiography portrays them on a good light, and Turkish nationalism is still socially acceptable, because they aren't white Christian Europeans.

>mainstream historiography portrays them on a good light

not really

If they wanted revenge on the byzantines then why did they attack the catholic city of Zara on their way to Constantinople?. The people of the 4th crusade were in it for the money more than any of the people of the other crusades, it was ridiculous to the point that all they did was attack and sack two christian cities while the muslims watched and laughed their asses off. It also created an Austria-Hungary-tier meme state that lasted nothing.

because they destroyed the roman empire after over 1,000 years of existence.

t. enrico dandolo

lmao look at this dumb faggot
Constantinople was the heart of the ERE. The 4th crusade was equivalent to getting stabbed in the heart. The Turks on the other hand are not comparable because they conquered the entire Balkans before marching to Constantinople

Pretty much hit the nail on the head, this place is infested by /pol/ posters

Most the people on this website are European/American and there ancestors might have suffered under them.