/smtg/ - 真・女神転生/Shin Megami Tensei General

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Shin Megami Tensei V
Teaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut9ekAp2drs
Reveal Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvyCAFV9MbM [Embed] [Embed]

Strange Journey Redux
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ-5x5IaYFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvLc8kXrz1g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Ty1p9tQEQ

Dx2 Shin Megami Tensei: Liberation announced for smartphones:
https://gematsu.com/2017/09/dx2-shin-megami-tensei-liberation-teaser-trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAiRowFQLY0

Chaos concert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDfjry8-t24

Shin Megami Tensei: Synchronicity Prologue side-scroller for PC released as free download
http://gematsu.com/2017/10/shin-megami-tensei-synchronicity-prologue-side-scroller-pc-released-free-download
English translation
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xq0ear1r0cvq40h/Synchronicity%20Prologue%20English%20V1.zip?dl=0

Strange Journey Redux Files including cutscenes, portraits, sprites and soundtrack:
https://mega.nz/#F!l0lwXbrD!k4nTlSzKp86s8qrwt1Wf1A

Shin Megami Tensei IV/IVA portraits, sprites and textures:
https://mega.nz/#F!UltjlITb!PnGEcWYkxv_n8u0vJQvhFg

Memorial Arrange Tracks album, fully named and tagged:
https://mega.nz/#!Qt0V2aYY!AGD6ECNHOkNcGNSKjEhoT0KLvYEWhW2F_0508GNB36o

Starter guide
http://i.imgur.com/zJcYpuE.png

Tips and tricks
https://pastebin.com/vp24zrH7

Fangames, artbooks, soundtracks, manga, and other downloads
https://pastebin.com/znkHg0kZ

OST links
http://pastebin.com/kLbYxjFU

Misc translations
https://pastebin.com/XE7fjVPy

Booru
http://smtg.booru.org/

Recommended reading
http://pastebin.com/ByiXrDGX

Previous thread: /vg/thread/195350928#p195350928

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut9ekAp2drs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvyCAFV9MbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ-5x5IaYFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvLc8kXrz1g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Ty1p9tQEQ
https://gematsu.com/2017/09/dx2-shin-megami-tensei-liberation-teaser-trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAiRowFQLY0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDfjry8-t24
http://gematsu.com/2017/10/shin-megami-tensei-synchronicity-prologue-side-scroller-pc-released-free-download
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xq0ear1r0cvq40h/Synchronicity%20Prologue%20English%20V1.zip?dl=0
https://mega.nz/#F!l0lwXbrD!k4nTlSzKp86s8qrwt1Wf1A
https://mega.nz/#F!UltjlITb!PnGEcWYkxv_n8u0vJQvhFg
https://mega.nz/#!Qt0V2aYY!AGD6ECNHOkNcGNSKjEhoT0KLvYEWhW2F_0508GNB36o
http://i.imgur.com/zJcYpuE.png
https://pastebin.com/vp24zrH7
https://pastebin.com/znkHg0kZ
http://pastebin.com/kLbYxjFU
https://pastebin.com/XE7fjVPy
http://smtg.booru.org/
http://pastebin.com/ByiXrDGX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvyCAFV9MbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvyCAFV9MbM
https://pastebin.com/khpwNFbG
https://www.romhacking.net/translations/2616/
https://agtp.romhack.net/project.php?id=smt2
https://twitter.com/iiotenki/status/901377001713418241
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toifnKW4LZs
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLssNN2-cPtMcq2utWvgXa6tb8edL5_9xq
https://youtu.be/Jxx21UoQuwM
http://www.mediafire.com/file/95c74ivio7jc7m6/save.rar
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LiAfb2Q9FYJLFQ6yWgaW694MQWztIvG6_22xyByFOr4/edit?usp=sharing
https://twitter.com/SEGA_akiba3/status/928821695061753858
https://i.imgur.com/QYMIRXW.png
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATtbt8bBmW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAmgwGa8JTc
http://www.aurora.dti.ne.jp/~eggs/gil11.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKMRad3df4A
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-level_utilitarianism
https://www.2chan.net/
https://rosie.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/gamerpg/1494690611/
ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Where my MT2 bros at?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

I guess I'll post my OP with the added goodies next thread since this one doesn't have that stuff.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Ignoramus
Reveal Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvyCAFV9MbM [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
Fuck.

Bored, going to dump some IV/IV:A art.
@ZeroReborn
Right here, actually one of my favorite SMT games. I wish it would be referenced by Atlus but I guess there might be complications because of Namco.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

Can a SMT horror game work?

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Ignoramus
retard inbred /v/ermin goes too fast just so he can have HIS thread and doesn't let the user include all the fucking scripts and so on
PLEASE GET CANCER AND FUCKING DIE

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Illusionz
can we get a correct thread for once, man?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@lostmypassword
Tell me what they are and I can add them. Sorry user if I missed them last thread, post them now and I'll update it next thread.

SniperWish
SniperWish

Trying to figure out how SMT4A stores its demons in files in hopes of re-enabling the cut SMT4 demons and perhaps even adding new ones, and there's actually data in here for demons that aren't even in the game such as Morrigan or Macha, neat stuff.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@ZeroReborn
Here my good man.

@Illusionz
MTII isn't an SMT game.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Illusionz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvyCAFV9MbM [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]

Illusionz
Illusionz

@PurpleCharger
Ok.
@kizzmybutt
To be fair it was just the one but yeah, sorry

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Stupidasole
Here you go:
https://pastebin.com/khpwNFbG
It's probably better if you have it so you can add anything that comes up in this one.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@SniperGod
Thanks, genuinely sorry user. Will definitely add these scripts next time. Shame none of the actual game files seem to exist online, not that anyone would bother translating a obscure as fuck phone game but still.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@SniperWish
How much experience do you have with this sort of thing?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

Reminder: Mastema is /ourguy/.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Playboyize
In terms of programming? More or less 0, but I can make at least some sense of hex data.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Fuzzy_Logic
Marking on Nanashi's arm resembles a clover
Markings on Demi-Fiend's arms resemble some other type of flower
What does it mean?

King_Martha
King_Martha

@TalkBomber
it's a Veeky Forums reference

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@ZeroReborn
nothing beats that game's battle theme

Emberburn
Emberburn

@TalkBomber
or a seed
I think the artist might have fucked up on that one

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@TalkBomber
both died and blossomed and they blossomed and died

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Need_TLC
b
l
o
o
m

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Fuzzy_Logic
Wrong
Round 2 stream when?

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Spamalot
What do you mean?

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Spamalot
I'm here to report it just like last time, don't try it.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Playboyize
that is fate

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@ZeroReborn
started as lawfag
now consistently a chaosfag
What the fuck thor.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Need_TLC
... He's fast...

girlDog
girlDog

@Need_TLC
Die, bastard

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Need_TLC
Dark-Law user pls go

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

And that's the last of them, have this lone demi to end my small dump.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@StonedTime
@girlDog
After you.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Boy_vs_Girl
Yeah, I find it funny that Thor is Light-Law in SMT1, but Light-Neutral in SMT2 and SMTif. And he's even Light-Chaos in Strange Journey. I wonder why they did that?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Boy_vs_Girl
Light-Law in SMT1
Light-Neutral in SMT2 and If...
Light-Chaos in later games

takes2long
takes2long

@WebTool
He actually did get our stream nuked last time

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@takes2long
For what purpose? Stream time is quality /smtg/.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@New_Cliche
He's an edgelord faggot.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@New_Cliche
Because it's not legal and streams aren't allowed as per Veeky Forums rules.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Stupidasole
@haveahappyday
@King_Martha
@hairygrape
@Boy_vs_Girl
@BunnyJinx
master1200
Jesus Christ user save your images properly.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Bidwell
Because it's not legal and streams aren't allowed as per Veeky Forums rules.

WebTool
WebTool

@Bidwell
Because it's not legal

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

*kills ur mobs*

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Bidwell
This is the worst Lawfaggatory I've ever seen.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@takes2long
He actually did
A stream mod beat him to it, you are giving him too much credit.
In fact even acknowledging him is just giving him an autism boner which will further fuel his wish to keep at it, so if you guys are wise, I advice you to stop doing it.

takes2long
takes2long

What would you do

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@kizzmybutt
user, who the fuck do you think reported the stream to begin with thus getting mod attention and by proxy nuking it, youre an idiot

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Stark_Naked
You may call me an idiot, but I see that you are not wise.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@takes2long
jack off

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Bidwell
lawfags

King_Martha
King_Martha

Alright. Persona 5 being good this is gonna piss you all off isn't it? Probably a good retard detector inspired me to go back and start persona 2. Persona 2 is great so far, and reminds me I need to get into the rest of SMT.

So far have collected
SMT 3 (featuring Dante from the devil may cry series, PS2)
Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner 1&2, PS2
SMT 3.5(??, Strange Journey, DS)
Devil Survivor 1, 2 DS
SMT 4 3DS
SMT 4 Apoc, 3DS
Bought a switch for SMT 5

Only questions:
1. How the fuck do I go about playing SMT1&2 in english? What's the generally accepted way to play them? I heard there's GBA editions, I'd love to play them on my flashcart if possible. And please don't say "skip them", not an option.
2. Where should I start? I've been told Nocturne is newfaggot friendly. Is that so?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@King_Martha
1. Translated SNES games, they're in the OP, and if you don't find them, they're really easy to find online, just look up the "Orden" patches.

2. It used to, though it still is an SMT classic and a must play. But in my opinion SMT IV is more newfag friendly, even if the intro is tough.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@King_Martha
order patch for smt1 https://www.romhacking.net/translations/2616/

gideon patch for smt2 https://agtp.romhack.net/project.php?id=smt2

both are playable in flashcards in ds/3ds, smt1 can also be played in iphones whose fw isnt the lastest

Nojokur
Nojokur

@King_Martha
forgot to add this: depending on your experience with other rpgs if you come from fire emblem then the devil survivor games are good entrypoints, if not then nocturne and iv are alright even though both have a kind of strong start

TreeEater
TreeEater

@King_Martha
I feel that P5 is not as hated around here as P3-P4. Adding non random dungeons and "demon negations" helped alot me thinks.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@King_Martha
We don't completely hate persona, /pg/ is just 95% waifufagging for P3-5 so it is kind of annoying. You can discuss Persona here as long as it actually relates to the games and not just "I'M GOING TO MARRY ___".

whereismyname
whereismyname

@SniperWish
@Deadlyinx
@Nojokur
Hmm. I really wish I could play them on GBA but I guess I'll play them on my SNES flashcrt. My CRT could use some use.

And I didn't know Devil survivor(s) was like fire emblem, that's my nbackground, so good to know. I guess I'll start with Nocturne, 4, Strange Journey, or DDS, whichever one grabs my attention most. Though maybe I guess I should wait for the 3DS remake? I heard it added not!Yukiko for some reason. Also better grafix

OH AND I FORGOT:
Is there any way to play the first Devil summoner (Saturn)? Is it even good? the sequel got a 3DS remake for some reason. Is the first one possible to play/worth playing?

thanks guys

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

so do we all agree that sj is the hardest entry?

cum2soon
cum2soon

@TreeEater
Eirikrjs tumblr has been nothing these past couple days but complaints about how gross P5 is and how he hates Hashino forever for pandering to the lowest common denominator. So there seems to be plenty of hate.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Spazyfool
I can't play DDS without getting a boner at some point, so that series gets my vote.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Spazyfool
Nah, and I am a die hard SJfag. SJ is more difficlt then some of the newer games, it is more difficult then the base difficulty of games like IV and Nocturne but some of the older games still have more difficult dungeons if only because of how annoying dungeons can be.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@cum2soon
Don't know who Eirkikjs is but,
he hates Hashino forever for pandering to the lowest common denominator
Why did it take until P5 for him to hate Hashino and not P3 or P4?

@whereismyname
3DS SH is the best version
And I say wait for the 3DS remake adds alot of content just play Nocturne. And why did't you get the 3ds versions of DeSu? They also add a nice amount of content.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Need_TLC
The dungeons being annoying doesn't really make the games difficult though. SMT having the Cathedral doesn't change that 99% of fights can be auto-battled through.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@TreeEater
P3
I mean I really don't like P4, I've tried so hard but it just feels like saccharine otaku escapism wish-fulfillment and it rubs me entirely the wrong way, but even playing it recently, I genuinely really like P3.

Still though, P5 is pretty much better than both, I especially liked it making a fucking GRAIN of effort to try pretend it's in the same continuity as P1-2 compared the near Fallout 3-ness of P3-4. Guns, negotiations, good dungeons, actual demon enemies instead of shadows a la 1&2, etc.

good to see I'm not alone in that.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Need_TLC
literal artificial difficulty makes games hard

Playboyize
Playboyize

@whereismyname
You have a shiton of games to play.
Unless you maraton them and beat them in a few weeks, I doubt you will run out of games before DSJ comes out.

You can play Devil Summoner via its PSP port, but it has no playable translation, just the scripts.
I'd love to play it, since I loved Soul Hackers, but I can't be assed to play an RPG while being forced to look up guides and scripts every three seconds.

FastChef
FastChef

@CodeBuns
good dungeons

What good dungeons? They seemed all super linear and tedious.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@whereismyname
the gba versions havent been translated yet (save for the ios version of smt1 which is the gba version. someone should really try to dump it)
@BinaryMan
agree with user here, the 3ds enhancements of both desu games are quite nice and add plenty of new stuff

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@whereismyname
Is there any way to play the first Devil summoner (Saturn)?
Not unless you know Japanese or want to follow a translation guide (in the OP)
Is it even good?
It's decent, but Soul Hackers improves upon it in every way. The loyalty system in Devil Summoner really drags it down.

girlDog
girlDog

@cum2soon
In what way is it gross?

I personally don't like it that much because of its pacing and the way it "balances" dungeon crawling and the VN aspects, but its themes and presentation are actually pretty ok to me.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@BinaryMan
3DS SH is the best version
I don't understand
Devil summoner 1 was for saturn, and Devil summoner 2 was also for Saturn, but 2 got a remake on the 3DS yeah? Is there anyway to play 1?

And thanks, I'll probably demifiend it up

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

tfw completing a full moon in P3
Looking forward to another 5+ hours of little meaningful content.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@girlDog
It has the two gay comic relief guys and Mona hitting on Ann. Or something, I don't know all the details of what people on tumblr are criticizing.

WebTool
WebTool

@FastChef
theyre good in the sense theyre much better than tartarus and the tv world and have a better defined aura surrounding them

w8t4u
w8t4u

@FastChef
Comparison:Fucking tarturus and all of P4's shit

In context? Fucking great.
Now I will admit I fucking hated Okumura's silly apace adventure though, even if his daughter is hot.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@haveahappyday
So predictable and boring.

At least the Power Rangers analogy in IV was funny.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@girlDog
In what way is it gross?
hashino explicitly asked soejima to fuck all the girls designs and make them look "cute". tae was supposed to look way different

w8t4u
w8t4u

@CodeBuns
Its more that, P3-P4 are half VN, so is P5 but ATLEAST it has Guns and negotiations and the combat portion is not an after thought. P5 also makes alot of nods and references to older SMT games.

The Arena in which you fight thor is Nocturne
Mentions Raidou's 2nd game
Mentions characters for P2EP
Last dungeon is a nod to SMT 1 Chaos route in how you fight the 4 archangels in that same order
Also Gabriel asking for peace seems to be a nod to SMT 2 as well maybe?
Autistic artist has Kenako's eyelashes and gives you cards the same way the artist in the P1-P2 games gives you cards by painting

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Ignoramus
that face
*inhales*

w8t4u
w8t4u

@BunnyJinx
Wrong image.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@New_Cliche
So glad he is gone. Who is the new Persona director?
Its the same guy who made the dancing games
Oh boy.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@RumChicken
do we have a name for new director yet?

Illusionz
Illusionz

@BunnyJinx
tfw I used this same exact image on /v/ to shitpost on how all jrpgs are shit
one user told me to play nocturne
SMT is my favorite series

Funny.

TechHater
TechHater

@Soft_member
*exhales*

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@w8t4u
IIRC it's very possible that Joker is Reiji's son and Futaba might be Baofu's daughter.

For the life of me I don't understand why Hashino has such a hateboner for P1-2 though, there were so many fucking hoops had to be jumped through to explain how 3-4 even fit in the same universe, adding a sidequest to EP just to try to explain how demons just suddenly became blobs lol

and that fucking anime ova "Only teenagers can use personas" are you fucking kidding me

TechHater
TechHater

@Sharpcharm
RC it's very possible that Joker is Reiji's son and Futaba might be Baofu's daughter.
I heard about the later but Idk how or why people think so. The former is new to me and would love to see why people think that.

adding a sidequest to EP just to try to explain how demons just suddenly became blobs lol
Wait fucking really?

And I always assumed that it was not a hate boner but out of respect for the old universe or something. And I am not 100% if he even worked on the anime. If so fuck him. but luckily it seemed to have gotten retconned

JunkTop
JunkTop

Oh, yes, friends, i forgot to ask.

What the actual fuck is this? It's been explained to me as the "Zegapain" of SMT.
Does it/will it ever get an english translation?

viagrandad
viagrandad

@New_Cliche
hashino explicitly asked soejima to fuck all the girls designs and make them look "cute"
Based.

SJW views of "I'm fat, ugly, and lazy, so everybody and every medium should lower to my standards" are laughable.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@JunkTop
As the official ambassador of the SMT fanbase, I declare that it will NOT have an english translation.

That is all, have a nice day.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@viagrandad
I am all for fuck sjws and all that but waifufags also need to be shot on sight as well.

@JunkTop
If some one could get the script sure but its kinda impossible to put that script in the game since there are STILL no original XBOX emulators.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

What did he mean by this? Do I play P2EPS1 or wait?

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@CouchChiller
Please god I didn't even knowthis was being worked on
Please
Please give it to me

Inmate
Inmate

@CouchChiller
Onegaiii is referring to himself and means one gay which means you need to suck his dick a little more to get the information

Playboyize
Playboyize

With all the Hasino discussion going on I looked him up and found this recent interview from him.

It was Japanese only but the guy who posted about made a bunch of tweets summarizing some of the key points.

https://twitter.com/iiotenki/status/901377001713418241

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@AwesomeTucker
Can't you make an exception, buddy? It fits directly between I and II ! Please reconsider.

massdebater
massdebater

@Playboyize
Yeah, this is where they are getting him just targeting the lowest common denominator comes from. When Megaten used to be all counterculture and punk, but it's sold out now, man.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Fuzzy_Logic
No. This is the mascot of smtg now.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@CouchChiller
Sorry but never really been into Persona, aren't both of the P2 games already translated on the psp? Is this a retranslation patch?

Either way that sounds pretty cool. I keep saying I should really look into the games but I keep finding other stuff I would rather play. Maybe this will motivate me to pick up the P2 games. For P1 I want to wait for a version that is the uncensored psp version but without the shitty music the psp port added.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@StrangeWizard
Only Innocent sin is translated on psp.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@haveahappyday
@Carnalpleasure

Well, SMTI had way more of a theme of east vs west. Fallen angel shit on chaos was a thing that showed up in side roles, but weren't the main bosses. Similar to louisa ferre in SJ, but even less present. So they probably wanted to go with a random western god for the first law rep / thorman was an anagram of truman. But norse religion clearly actually leans chaotic. Dying in battle gets you better heavens, and the heavens themselves are about battling, human sacrifice, and all in all more chaotic mentality. It was only a matter of time til he veered over to chaos.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Playboyize
Atlus offices sounded a little crazy back then. Thick with tobacco and incense smoke and doors covered in yen notes, maybe as an aesthetic?
They really were /our/ guys.

The early game developing industry sounds so comfy. It's like the industry was so niche that they would take in pretty much about anyone who applied, and most people were in it for the passion of making fun games they would personally like to play.

I t's also amusing that Hashino pretty much got put on charge just because he was 30.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@kizzmybutt
Welcome to why I said smtg was shit. One person with autism is free to ruin it for everyone else as long as they want, driving away the better posters.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@StrangeWizard
For P1 I want to wait for a version that is the uncensored psp version but without the shitty music the psp port added
Is that a thing? Also P1 is mediocre as all fuck

I like Shoji meguro but he fucked P1's soundtrack HARD

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Harmless_Venom
Did I play different games than everyone else? Maybe I was way underlevelled but in SMTI I got killed all the time. I thought the old games were way harder.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Sir_Gallonhead
P1 is actually amazing and ur gay

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Gigastrength
Didn't know that, thanks for the info. Maybe I'll start up the psp version of EP if he actually releases the patch.
@Sir_Gallonhead
Yeah, I have heard mixed things overall about P1 but it seems the closest to traditional SMT so I figured it may be the best starting place for me. As shallow as it sounds only P1 and P2 really interest me, maybe it's just because I have seen so much discussion on P3-5 that I know basically everything about them but they don't really interest me personally. I am liking the direction P5 seems to be taking and hope it continues though.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@whereismyname
Fuck, meant IS, I know that is the first one story wise.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@haveahappyday
A few things they complain about.

The gay guys being comedic relief in a game that also doesn't let you pick gay options. So its presenting homosexuality as too ridiculous to be a choice even though there's not only a ton of options but a ton of dubious ones like dating random adults. Presenting that as more allowable than gay options sets a tone people disliked. Even in a world of living out fantasies that are dubious it doesn't offer it, or treat it like anything but comedic relief.

The fact that anne was treated like a sex object by both the story and her own teammembers, and no real criticism of them is ever made even though she's someone who was actually almost raped and who would probably be highly sensitive to that. The same people who helped you -not- get raped themselves perving on you sets a tone of borderline cluelessness. The fact that morgana is in on this despite being a being created by the good side deliberately to help foster good ends doesn't help either. The fact that its actually a real problem in japan that you are kind of expected to just not make a big deal about people perving on you, and that the game presents your team doing it in a game meant to be about usurping those same issues of people abusing situations also doesn't help.

The fact that most of the female outfits were fanservice or close to it, but the male ones weren't sexualized at all, despite this being about self image and it being unlikely that half of those people's minds have a justified reason for it. It sets a tone that is different from just impersonal fanservice that doesn't make its way into the story itself for their actual outfits to make it obvious that for no real reason teh female ones are all sexualized. Something anne even reacts to in-game.

Its not the worst thing ever, but obviously people will note that these things could have been handled better.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Stark_Naked
So the usual complaints westerners make.
Glad they're not relevant.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Stark_Naked
I think too many people like to think Persona is somehow abpve typical anime bullshit but it is literally Atlus' main outlet to make SMT into typical anime bullshit without upsetting veterans. It's been that way since P3, P1 was pretty successful as far as SMT games go so it made it a somewhat recognizable name and went Atlus was in its "do or die" situation in the mid 2000's P3 was decided to be what they needed, something more marketable for the autists and normalfags.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@iluvmen
I would say the Ann thing is genuine. The fact they took what was an important aspect of her character and story arc and threw it away is pretty shitty.

Though I guess expecting a good story in the first place was the real problem.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@BinaryMan
Yeah. That's the thing. All of this is standard fare anime tropes to appeal to autists who can't get laid. But in some things it is depicted in sufficiently abstract a way so as to not be able to be highlighted. In this case its just that these three things stuck out a lot more, since there were specific things they were being contrasted against.

Interestingly, record breaker and iva both have more hinting at gay shit in the main cast than p5, and despite coming out earlier were started work on way later. So some of that might be depicted differently now. The tone of how homosexuality is seen has changed a lot in the last decade alone.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@happy_sad
Why are you responding to someone deliberately trying to be autistic as if they have genuine things to say?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@PurpleCharger
I was regularly getting 3 or 4 levels with each boss fight, and it was still extremely easy. But then again, I was exploiting nerve bullets and later magic bullets.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Spamalot
I wasn't deliberately trying to be autistic. I just don't care about Persona and don't take people seriously who expect some serious social commentary or otherwise good stuff out of anything after 2

Spamalot
Spamalot

@BlogWobbles
The issue people bring up is that P5 is explicitly about tackling social issues, yet seems completely oblivious to these kinds of things.

TechHater
TechHater

@Harmless_Venom
To be fair wasn't the refrences to homosexuality added in the localization? There's that famous picture of a description of Isabeau and it mentioning she reads gay romance novels but I remember hearing that that wasn't in the original translation.

Might be wrong though. Overall though yeah, other games seem to better show homosexuality, P2 technically allowed you to be bisexual and date a guy even.

TechHater
TechHater

@Spamalot
P5 is explicitly about tackling social issues,
I don't know shit about P5, is it really? If it is, why?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Stark_Naked
And ingame there was Lala and her gay bar, which you can not only work at, but isnt filled with stereotypes.

Also funny people use the two gay guys when Yosuke spent every time chance going EW NO YOU HOMO Kanji during thenstory.

Inmate
Inmate

@TechHater
No user Hallelujah, Gaston, and Navarre will have Nanashis babies on Massacreand it even spawn a bunch of Hal Mpreg. They tell you as much.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

/vg/thread/195350928#p195359208
I'm not ashamed to say that I've fapped to girly Flynn more than once

idontknow
idontknow

@TechHater
yea, the society is fucked up, fucking adults, the society's governments trying to cater to the needs of few people with power instead of a the masses, teachers raping students, arranged marriages, kinda, most of the shit I mentioned arent exclusive to the world of p5 either since those are noticeable even in a third world country like the one I live in

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

This design is here to stay...right?

idontknow
idontknow

@Burnblaze
its because they are exclusively complaining about p5, ive seen a lot of people complaining for yosuke's internalized homophobia

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@AwesomeTucker
yes but the catch is Krishna won't appear at all, only Vishnu

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@AwesomeTucker
Only if we get fun-loving, down-to-earth Krishna instead of dumb villain Krishna.

Techpill
Techpill

@TurtleCat
His sinisterness is the best part, though I am playing the undub.

Smug calmness he has is great.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Burnblaze
I don't get why people pass lala off as some positive gay depiction. Just because people on tumblr think being a fat person with blue hair is good doesn't change that that actual depiction was more like "wow look at this wacky wierd person who lives on the wierd outskirts of society." That's a very asian thing. In japan, homosexuality isn't treated as evil so much as inferior and not really something normal or serious people do. Her being treated as nice is continuous with that. Japanese anti gay culture isn't trying to demonize gays. Just depict it as something normal people don't do.

And yosuke was a little different, since that's something he as a character did. Not which the narriative establishes as simply how things are.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@TurtleCat
but Krishna was loving and kind and right about absolutely everything

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Illusionz
Biggest bullshit moment in any game is when you try to take krishna's hand, and dagda slaps it away.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@AwesomeTucker
Remake of SMTI with that krishna when?

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@BinaryMan
I think too many people like to think Persona is somehow above typical anime bullshit
I really agree with this.

But I think this can be reflected to SMT as well. Because there are fans who treat SMT as some awakened high-tier philosophical movement, when in reality it's mostly devs who think mythology and philosophy are cool and turn them into the setting of their videogame; in the same fashion that other devs turn sci-fi or medieval fantasy into videogames.

With this I'm not saying that the series is shallow thrash, no, there are a lot of things which are worth paying attention to and discussing about. But in the end the stories in SMT are not written to be a doctoral thesis, they are the setting for videogames, so they will inevitably have flaws and plot holes.

Evilember
Evilember

/smtg/ - social (sexuality) matters tackling group

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Nude_Bikergirl
who treat SMT as some awakened high-tier philosophical movement
Never saw that happen here.

It's just people who think mythology and philosophy are cool and discussing the ethical systems presented in the games and metaphysics/world building of the devs. Nobody who takes himself seriously implies that it's more than vidya

But in the end the stories in SMT are not written to be a doctoral thesis, they are the setting for videogames, so they will inevitably have flaws and plot holes.
Which also nobody implied here. Don't know what other communities you frequent though

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Skullbone
Video game industry is too big now, so much money. They can't risk with the oddballs, times have changed. Maybe there's some comfy workplace in the indie scene, but who knows

WebTool
WebTool

@Nude_Bikergirl
because there are fans who treat SMT as some awakened high-tier philosophical movement

I'm not sure what you are referring to. The fans aren't saying that smt is magically the forefront of breakthroughs in philosophy. You are presenting the same thing as two different things. The games referencing these things gives people a vehicle to talk about them in the context of the games. Which is also interesting for people who want to learn them independently to have something to contextualize them with that. No one said that the games THEMSELVES are breaking this unique new ground.

FastChef
FastChef

@Nude_Bikergirl
While not "above" SMT is a series seen as not needing to rely on that for interest. The heroines have always been pretty sexy, that stuff is fine, but seeing things like that beach dlc in IV:A is kind of concerning. There it is not relevant to the story and just dlc but still, it is a bit concerning. In a series about the apocalypse having such low brow fan service like that only takes away from the world, not add to it.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Sir_Gallonhead
There's a fan made patch to put the old music in P1, but it's a little broken.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@FastChef
IVF in itself is concerning but a fuck ton of people called the story out for being a complete mess, so I doubt they'll do anything like it again.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Deadlyinx
gideon patch for smt2
The Orden patch for smt2 fixes the spell/race names though.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@BinaryMan
@Nude_Bikergirl

The point isn't that its too anime though, its that the particular depictions come off a little suspect. Random fanservice isn't something that people would have noted as obviously if it wasn't indicative of certain things in particular that they'd have issue with. Not veering into sexism and being anti gay isn't something that people think it has to be a doctoral thesis to do.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Fried_Sushi
the results of romhacking told me order patch for smt 2 was in spanish

girlDog
girlDog

@FastChef
The beach dlc wasn't concerning. It was a mediocre side thing you can ignore. If anything its price was concerning.

What was concerning is that toki's sole existence was to be fanservice.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Flameblow
Devil Summoner 1 also got a PSP port. There is currently no translation patch for either version of it. Also I recommend using the names Debisama and Soul Hackers since Devil Summoner 1/2 could refer to the Raidou games.

likme
likme

@VisualMaster
which is a little disappointing since 4A's story had some good original elements that were severely damaged by the emphasis on fanservice and cliches and they'll probably drop all of it for a few more Lucifer vs Angels rehashes

WebTool
WebTool

I wonder what Lucifer's next disguise will be like

eGremlin
eGremlin

@WebTool
Little girl, need the Alice and Moh Shuvuu audience now that we've gotten teenage schoolgirl out of the way.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@WebTool
A loli.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@likme
The annoying thing is that they haven't even fully tapped out the potential of angels vs demons yet. But even on THAT front they rehash too much. IV was a good game, but was more or less a final admission of their lack of variety.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Spamalot
Why not do more small scale and personal stories like Devil Summoner?
Do some world building or something.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Stark_Naked
you are kind of expected to just not make a big deal about people perving on you
more people need to realize this is the real way though. grow a thicker skin, don't let someone else's words or personal actions influence your mind, thoughts and beliefs.

humans objectify other humans all the time, it's in human nature. women objectify men the same way men objectify women, and this will never, ever change until the end of time.

as long as they don't outright push you down and stick their dick in your pooper they're not actually doing anything by fantasizing about you, and trying to control their minds and thoughts by trying to stop them from being attracted to you is immature and fucked up.

remember the sticks and stones breaking bones, words can never hurt me saying? too many people forgot that and bought into the juvenile, childish belief that words can hurt people, and shrugging them off is something alien, scary, you should throw a tantrum like a spoiled 4 year old who was denied a piece of candy.

the moment adult crybabies throw a tantrum about muh objectification they give power to those they try to attack, because their actions made them react in this specific way. like a puppetmaster who pulled the "you get offended now" string by saying a specific word and they get offended like clockwork.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@WebTool
Hot bara.

StonedTime
StonedTime

attempt to harness a power far beyond a group's control
one by one, members get shrekt
leader of the group gets shrekt
remaining members run around begging for mercy

Why is it so satisfying?

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Ignoramus
Yeah. For instance, things they could do but didn't yet:

Depiction of messians and gaians in a situation that isn't an apocalypse and where they aren't at war with eachother. They are normal groups who aren't radicalized, and even team up to help fight a villain. Get one of each in your party, and have them be like the spock and worf of the team or whatever.

A neutral side that is more abrahamic somehow.

A game where law is the dark demonized side and chaos is in charge. It can even be more gnostic. Chaos as aeons, and law as archons.

Depiction of the law and chaos sides in a situation like triangulum where no ending cleanly corresponds to any alignment, and so they aren't archetypical perfections, but ways to solve a problem.

Actually elucidating a ton about the sides in-game. Yes, we get it, they don't have to for every game, but why not have a game that goes into them in more depth.

Smaller scale endings. Transforming the world in the same way every time is getting a little uh... monotonous.

More old testament shit. More abrahamic things that are positive on chaos.

Have a seperate fallen angel dark-law side like in high school dxd. That would honestly be super rad if they are the main villains in something. Maybe you can even side with them.

TechHater
TechHater

@Poker_Star
you should throw a tantrum like a spoiled 4 year old who was denied a piece of candy.

This describes your post more than anything. Go back to kotakuinaction or wherever you are from.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@StonedTime
What are you even referring to?

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@TechHater
you seem to know a lot about kotaku and its various offshots. maybe you should go back there yourself if my post offended you, senpai.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@New_Cliche
Sorry, one reversal allowed only. Off you go.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Booteefool
Day 1 buy

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@ZeroReborn
fuck your rules, tumblrina. it'll be reversed as many times as needed.

farquit
farquit

@Sharpcharm

SH Phantom Society ultimately falling apart, though outside of the Devil Summoner games I doubt I'll find "this group is good and they're not"

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Sir_Gallonhead
thinking sexism is real means you are tumblr.

Yeah, this is how we know you still think gamergate is a thing. I bet you are also irrationally angry about game journalists, which is something normal people legitimately don't know exist because they don't actually matter.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@kizzmybutt
sexism
you activated my trap card.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@eGremlin
Depiction of messians and gaians in a situation that isn't an apocalypse and where they aren't at war with eachother. They are normal groups who aren't radicalized, and even team up to help fight a villain
Boring as fuck

Smaller scale endings. Transforming the world in the same way every time is getting a little uh... monotonous.
SMT was always about changing the world fundamentally, and it's fine like that. Not monotonous at all.

Wouldn't mind anything else you mentioned.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@viagrandad
send pics.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

Give me some Chaosfag music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toifnKW4LZs

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Raving_Cute
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLssNN2-cPtMcq2utWvgXa6tb8edL5_9xq

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

keeping your top secret files in a folder labeled "top secret"
They never learn

MPmaster
MPmaster

@BunnyJinx
It's their porn folder. The top secret stuff is in About ALGON

5mileys
5mileys

@farquit
To be fair they have a master the Grigori except Kokabel who is still an angel obey.

And their goal is to enforce control on the world by any means.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@StonedTime
Kadokura was an ally, but he was not their leader. Azazel was still sane but underestimating Kadokura cause crazy.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Illusionz
He literally talks about how he doesn’t trust humans as Vishnuflynn and says his love will no longer reach you as he plots to kill you.

girlDog
girlDog

@viagrandad
HAHA YOU TRIGGERED YOU FUCKING SNOWFLAKE?? MAYBE GROW A THICKER SKIN NEXT TIME ;)))

cum2soon
cum2soon

@StrangeWizard
the gba versions haven't been translated yet
WHAT?! oh come on, man my VirtualBoy is hungry

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@5mileys
Here's what I'm thinking. Like in highschool dxd they can use grigori like semyaza and azazel for the dark law side. And make it be seperate from the law side, or from demons. If they want they can ALSO cram aeons in as a light-chaos side. So we could get like four different abrahamic sides in interplay in one game.

We could also find a way to get neutral in on it. In the middle ages many thought that fairies were like a type of neutral angel. And neutral often downplays its gods anyways. They could throw in just enough of that to give it context as additional abrahamic stuff, but not so much that it looks wierd for them to be next to other abrahamic figures. They could have saved neutral mastema for that too. But downplay both of those for more generic "muh humanism" as always.

That would be pretty wild. Five sides all that are abrahamic shit all at once.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@AwesomeTucker
She wasn’t forced into the main story trying to jump Ryuji like the other gays. Also unlike the previous things involving Trannies Lala doesn’t try to hit on teens like Akira either like the one from P3s Beach scene.

And the point still is that the guys who come into her gay bar do the same same thing normal people do instead of being walk gay stereotypes.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Illusionz
He was wrong about what the true form of a Godslayer is.

He was wrong about his Cosmic argh hatching

He was wrong about thinking he could beat YHVH.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Harmless_Venom
Look in the pastebin instead. It's there in English.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Nude_Bikergirl
please don't spread lies about our beloved savior

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@iluvmen
Krishna is too pure for this world. Even when fighting you he acts nice to you.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@girlDog
Please don't scream around like a fucking (no triggering intended) retard in my SMTG.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Lord_Tryzalot
That's literally all that happens here though.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Nojokur
What are you talking about?
SHUT THE FUCK UP IF YOU HAVE NO CLUE YOU STUPID SMARTASS
no trigger

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Spamalot
just wanted to point out how stupid all the shit that user said was

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

At what point exactly did this place begin to circle the drain?

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Sir_Gallonhead
begin

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Sir_Gallonhead
Around the time you started browsing. Pretty amazing coincidence.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Spamalot
When was that?

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Sir_Gallonhead
The moment it became a general. Generals are cancer, no exceptions. Tumblrites and ledditors are lowering the quality even more of course and made it even more worthy for Our Lord's smite that will eventually be upon us

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Carnalpleasure
At a non-descript, fixed point in the past.

Soft_member
Soft_member

Does anyone actually have fond feelings for the Spookies gang? The past like 5 dungeons have all been revolving around them and I can't bring myself to care at all. They basically only exist in the story to unlock doors for you.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@iluvmen
Such is what comes of trusting a human. Killed by his own champion.
This just proves there is no hope for humans.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Soft_member
I really like Spooky himself, he's very interesting and a pretty cool guy. The others I don't even really remember much of.

WebTool
WebTool

@Soft_member
I have fond feelings for Six's onee-chan, if you catch my drift.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

im more concerned about savage

King_Martha
King_Martha

@iluvmen
My salvation. My new universe.
Geez Krishna sounds like you’re using humans as an excuse to be the YHVH of your own world.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@King_Martha
i said stop

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@cum2soon
Some NPCs will mention remembering being inside the Egg and how aweful it was.
Others say the only good thing was meeting their dead loved ones Shesha ate.
The rest don’t remember and feel better after returning.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@cum2soon
Vishnuflynn aura cackles with malice.

askme
askme

@VisualMaster
probably just nu-dagda planting thoughts in their brains because his mommy told him to

TechHater
TechHater

@VisualMaster
No one said being in the egg was supposed to be fun. Its just a gateway to the new world.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@TechHater
Ah but he says that he isn’t harming or doing anything wrong to the souls, which is what matters to him. Yet the souls themselves don’t like it being part of his Egg at all. Yet he thinks they’ll want to be one with him?

whereismyname
whereismyname

@askme
Nah Dagda doesn’t pretend being part of the Egg will be pleasant. Unlike Krishna. He forced the souls of the entire demonized Mikado that praises God unto it on Massacre afterall.

Techpill
Techpill

@JunkTop
Not sure what your point is. He never said that there would literally be no harm in the transition. Just that what he is doing is long term not a harm.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Techpill
No he is saying that he isn’t harming the soul. Because he doesn’t care about the body. That nothing he is doing is harming the soul itself is why he feels superior and just. If the souls themselves don’t like it despite barely having any form of ego in that state why would they like being part of him?

It’s more like he goes insane as all their hatred towards him swells inside. Though considering he sounds like he enjoys dying as a normal demon in battle he might think that’s bliss.

Bidwell
Bidwell

Looks like the quest is going well

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Sir_Gallonhead
Also P1 is mediocre as all fuck
And it's still better than all the rest of the Persona games.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Stark_Naked
muh western complaints
muh gay
muh sexuality
So basically the usual shit from retarded people then? They could have at least bee a little more creative. Those retards even complain about the exact same things in some random platformer game.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@cum2soon
You're conflating two unrelated things together. He didn't say the soul won't experience any discomfort. He said you shouldn't mind death that much, because your soul will survive and you will be reincarnated into him. That wasn't an axiom of what makes his argument justified. Its just comforting words meant to console the people that dying isn't oblivion. It has nothing to do with not caring about bodies.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Skullbone
I get that its the "in" thing to only care about yourself in "4chan culture" but caring about sexism and what perpetuating negative trends actually does isn't some kind of bizarre thing only people on tumblr care about. Its pretty standard fare for anyone even tenuously approaching being a reasonable person.

askme
askme

@Dreamworx
It's a social matter and we're talking about games. There's at least one million better ways and mediums to tackle that shit. If the only way to care about these issues is the in the videogame industry, then there's no issue at all and just some people who are not taken seriously and hope that gamer don't have better things to do. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about those complains. P5's difficulty? Some dungeons being boring and "boxy"? AI routine of the bosses being meh? Demon only having 4 fucking different personalities for negotiation? Goro could have been a better written antagonist? Yeah, THOSE are complaints. Not muh gays and muh sexism.

likme
likme

@Dreamworx
fuck off, seriously

viagrandad
viagrandad

@askme
Okay, but you're arguing against an apparent group that doesn't exist. No one said that this particular thing in p5 is the worst thing ever. Just that it was there, and was a notable dubious thing. You're also going back to fallacious thinking where literally anything can be dismissed by pointing to a bigger issue. But no one said that p5 specifically is like the sole thing to care about. These are real complains, because they do matter. I mean, what is any issue in a game? Something that effects people's experience and enjoyment of it, or in general. And things like this are a part of that.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@viagrandad
Do you seriously and unironically believe what you just wrote?

massdebater
massdebater

@hairygrape
That there isn't a huge horde of people acting like persona 5 personally ushered in an eternal age of sexism? Yeah, I'm like 99% sure that that's not a common belief.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@TurtleCat
Again he never says the souls will suffer in the process. Only that the humans and their fleshy mearsuits will suffer and “die” as he views it. Taking the souls agonist their will is only saidnto be a step on the path.

And since the people didn’t like what was going on even as Souls his fallacious argument when someone brings up how most of mankind doesn’t want that, only to refute it by acting as if they do shows his disregard for the souls themselves. He treats human souls the part he supposedly seeks to save and care about like a commodity and takes them against their will. He treats them no better than YHVH or demons like Xi Wang Mu treats humans.

farquit
farquit

@viagrandad
Why don't you go be a cunt somewhere else ? Seriously, you must realise that nobody cares about what you're thinking here.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@farquit
Because the noticeable amount you get riled up about it amuses me. We feed off of that shit.

idontknow
idontknow

@Boy_vs_Girl
I didn't say he said the souls will suffer. And yes, he does make them undergo things they don't currently want? So what? Steven is totally fine with dagda's plan despite it doing that as well. Steven mcneutrals. You know why? Because these are gods. They operate on large timescales, and they realize that individual short term human lives who exist -right now- are actually not the be all end all of how to make decisions. So a few people who are in tokyo right now don't want it. So what? Its not about them. Its about the entire future of the world, and what will develop if reality is set down a better path. The people born into the new world -will- want it that point. Because just like the ones from the old world its all they've ever known. You can't use a status quo bias to assume that how things are is the best just because in literally every situation people will be afraid of anything that is -too different-.

Not only that, but many people willingly fed themselves to shesha. So its not like its something so alien that nobody wanted it. What's more, gods are shaped by observation. The idea of krishna's plan, and him thinking of it exists because he knows billions of hindus wanted something like it, so he is finding a way to deliver on that. Because it really is something that a lot of people want as a permanent outcome. So depicting it as something no one could want is misleading and is trying to apply a tiny human scale to the actions of beings that even steven admits simply have to look at things at a bigger scale.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Dreamworx
Do you even know where you are? I'm not talking about being Veeky Forums, but you're on the general for a series of games that depict sexual demons, a giant penis on a chariot and alignment wars that could end the world's foundations or even reset the universe. Do you really think anyone here fucking cares about some gays whining that they couldn't mate or that some girl walks around with her boobs off? For all I care, I'd force feed all humans Reds and be done with it.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Emberburn
What is this autistic sperging meant to be about? What does:

sexual demons, a giant penis on a chariot and alignment wars that could end the world's foundations or even reset the universe.

have to do with whether games veer into dubiously sexist territory? Sexual demons are not inherently sexist, and depicting the apocalypse =/= actually causing an actual apocalypse. How do any of these things imply that people don't or shouldn't care about the games sending a dubious message?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Emberburn
Do you even know where you are? I'm not talking about being Veeky Forums

I mean, you kind of are, since these responses are very "4chan" but are not omnipresent to "megaten."

cum2soon
cum2soon

@girlDog
Thanks for reminding me. I wanted to look over that area again.

likme
likme

https://youtu.be/Jxx21UoQuwM
So what does happens in SJ new neutral ending? Why is space mareine in the moon?

cum2soon
cum2soon

@likme
Alex comes back in time to kill you since the original paths all lead to bad endings, because they decided to retcon the entire connotations of the original game for some reason. So this is technically a sequel to the original, since its the second timeline. You learn from alex that humanity is indeed on a bad path, and won't be saved without some wacky hijinks. So on neutral, you absorb the ubergestalt powers from gore, and become the immortal protector of mankind. Every time the schwarzwelt comes back, you help fight against it.

No clue why you are on the moon. But you're a supernatural figure now, so you can probably just kind of go wherever.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@cum2soon
it's easy to see the shwarzwelt returning when you're in one place from where you can see it happening without the fear of propaganda or censorship hiding it. and since you're an immortal superman who's probably similar to stephen, trifling matters like lack of food, oxygen or means to arrive at the moon are nothing.

you probably also get over minuscule human problems like boredom when you're timeless.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Lunatick
I dunno. If your mind became so abstract that you never got bored, you'd probably be so abstract you couldn't be trusted to protect earth either. Even angels and demons need friends and society.

Who in the series are most noted for wanting to be totally alone. Dagda, isamu, and yhvh. In other words, the three craziest people in the series.

That's true though. It would be pretty depressing if it meant he literally lived on the moon and never did anything else. At least live on earth if you are an immortal.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@lostmypassword
Dagda, isamu, and yhvh. In other words, the three craziest people in the series.
Isamu
craziest people in the series.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Bidwell
In this case its literal though. Isamu in game, like noticeably was bitter about being ignored. All his views stem from this.

5mileys
5mileys

@Gigastrength
Dude, you're trying too hard. Sure, he has personal reasons for his views but it's the same for the other reason reps (funny thing is that their personalities all seem not really to be fit in their world).
What makes him more crazy than them? He's just trying to make the world a better place.

This being alone makes you go crazy stuff you're trying to push isn't really implied in the games. Persona maybe

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@lostmypassword
@Gigastrength
Isamu
crazy
craziest in the series
Just because you don't understand his point of view doesn't mean you should get far fetched reasons to justify that he's crazy. Solitude and severing ties with society is a extremely valid point, considering many do that to reach enlightenment or an higher knowledge.

girlDog
girlDog

@5mileys
What makes him more crazy is that he actively sounds bitter about being ignored, and so tries to spin this solitude as a good thing. His solitude was not self choen. Other people have reasons for views, but the reasons tend to at least kind of make sense. Walter doesn't like that he was born lower class in a world where there wasn't much opportunity to move up, so his views reflect undoing that issue. What would come off mentally unhinged if his views were not to improve his own station, but merely to spitefully force luxorors to be poor too without anyone benefiting from it. Isamu was forced into solitude, so his response is to try to spin it as if he chose it, while clearly being bitter it happened, and wanting to force it on others as well.

Sane views: have a problem, and try to fix it.

Unhinged views: have a problem, and try to rationalize it, and force it on everyone else too.

Nojokur
Nojokur

why the fuck does recarmdra even exist? name ONE game where using it isn't completely, absolutely counterproductive

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Nojokur
It's extremely useful when you're fighting Demi-fiend in DDS1 and can be very useful in other games if you use it smartly.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Nojokur
DDS1, Demifiend fight to be specific. Saved my ass once.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Nojokur
It has a lot of use on the superbosses in the Digital Devil Saga games
I think I used it once or twice in IV too. Probably not something you want to purposely carry over but it can definitely turn the rare situations where all but one character/demon are dead around.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@girlDog
He is bitter yes, but not about being alone, he's bitter about the state of society in general. He explains to you why he thinks it's bad and solitude the only answer.
If he didn't think that solitude was a good thing he wouldn't make it his reason. Also he had friends by the way.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Nojokur
I remember Recarmdra saving my ass a couple of times. Like Silent Prayer, it's a very situational skill but doesn't mean it's 100% useless.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

The only games where Recarmdra is actually bad are the Devil Summoners

WebTool
WebTool

Hey guys, my friend is letting me borrow his 3DS for a couple of months while I'm going away. I liked Persona 3-5 and I'm interested in SMT as well, so I was thinking of trying IV. I've played around 6 hours or so of Nocturne via emulator over the last week and enjoyed it, but won't have access to my PC for the time I'm away.
My question is how detrimental (if at all) would it be to play IV before Nocturne? I'm not sure how much the story elements would align but if IV spoiled things I'd probably rather hold off. At the same time I'd like to be able to play something like that while I'm away, if possible.
Also as a side question, is Apocalypse to be bothered with or should I leave it alone?

Supergrass
Supergrass

@kizzmybutt
Even the friend dynamic between you, him, and chiaki is set up to let you know he's reacting. Chiaki pushes you around, and chiaki clearly likes you more than him, with implications that you might have eventually dated confirmd in some interview. So he is in a position where he feels left out even on that front. When describing his reason he places a lot of importance on people ignoring him too. But why would he? He, like everyone else, knows that not everyone shares their reason. He can't seriously think everyone wants this. So the stress he is placing on it has a tone of bitterness. Hell, he has to confirm for you that he likes solitude since when he first says it it sounds like he's complaining. Because he is. Everything about him is written as a lonely bitter person trying to get a sense of control by passing their state off as self chosen. And he was written that way.

And yes, he is similar to other alignment heroes in a way. Because anything atlus doesn't like they want you to think that their experiences gave them bad reasons for. Problem is, isamu's bad reasons are extra pathetic, since its obvious that bitterness is a tone of them. On top of that, his reason is openly ridiculous.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@WebTool
It would actually probably be better story wise to play IV before nocturne. Nocturne is an "inversion" of many elements of the series. But if you don't know what the elements are normally, the inversion won't mean anything to you. IV has the elements in the normal ways, so it actually ironically would make more sense to play first.

IVA has a lot of good points. Its just infuriating that it retcons some of IVs best characters into shit ones, and doesn't let you side with a lot of the cool sides it shows, leaving you with two disappointing options, and an underwhelming ending.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@WebTool
Nocturne are almost completely separate besides one or two references. The only problem with playing IV instead of Nocturne would be the QoL changes IV brings that make the older games more tedious to play for you.

Also play Apocalypse after IV if you enjoy it.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Nojokur
Recarmdra can take you out of tricky situations. Let's say that you are in a situation where only one of your allies is alive and he's low on health. If he uses up his turn casting Samarecarm on another ally, then he will most likely die himself when the enemies take their turn. The ally that you revived will most likely get severely injured, so you'd be back at square one. The only way out of this cycle of reviving is to cast Recarmdra since it revives and fully restores the health of your 3 (or 2) other allies.

FastChef
FastChef

@WebTool
Story in the games is usually stand-alone, not counting some over arching connections through out the entire series. The only I see with playing IV before Nocturne is the quality of life IV has like easier fusion and inheritance systems, for instance.
Anyway, play IV. If you like it, play Apocalypse since it's more of the same but with improved gameplay and pretty bad story. IV should take you around 40 hours more or less while Apocalypse around 60.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@WebTool
IV and Apocalypse are completely separate from everything else, there is really nothing playing them first could possibly spoil. One of the DLCs in Apocalypse features the protagonists from the other mainline SMT games, but even then they are all pretty different from their appearances in the actual games so it's not like anything would be ruined there either.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Ignoramus
SMT1: Law
SMT2: Law
SMT3: Hikawa
SJ: Law
IV: Law
Apocucklypse: Law,
Devil Survivor 1/2: Law
Raidou Kuzunoha 2: Law

Irrefutably the best endings per game.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Bidwell
Indeed. We must obey the Law, hence any kind of streamfaggotry is not allowed on /smtg/.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Poker_Star
IV: Law
not White
Apocucklypse: Law
Not the Burn The Cartridge ending
1000/10 you tried

WebTool
WebTool

@WebTool
Yes you can play IV before Nocturne. Just don't get too used to its fusion system or you might become frustrated over Nocturne's.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@WebTool
Speaking of fusion system.
The way DSJ is the best so far. It's normal inheritance unless you use a source which makes it like IV. Since sources are pretty hard to get repeatedly, you're not using it that much so you don't have OP demons all the time.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Spamalot
Phew. Shuffling for hours to transfer the right skills from a source to a demon was not very fun.

RavySnake
RavySnake

how the FUCK do i make cia files work on my citra

askme
askme

@Supergrass
It was a Drama CD with an Original Demi-Fiend (Fake Scapegoat) Donut Steel and it was untrustworthy because the person in question was a whiny beta with the hots for Chiaki and Pixie hated his guts.

Chiaki ended up being one of the things Naomi hates. Bullies who pick on the weak.

farquit
farquit

@cum2soon
To be fair original Neutral was set up for the Schwarz to return. Gore saw an awesome future, but he was clearly basing his actions on the most positive future he saw rather than the realistic one.

And the realistic one not only happened, Lucifer’s daughter was sent back to stop that bad end because mankind does not learn from its mistakes and failed like the previous civilizations had on the second try.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@idontknow
The only people confirmed to feed themselves to shesha are the Ring. In fact the game had a missed opportunity in showing anymore than that.

The majority of mankind not only did not choose Shesha, he had to eat more than half of Tokyo’s population against their will just to meet the quota.

likme
likme

@idontknow
Dagda doesn’t give faux kindness to people he’s about to shut in. He will kill people, use them, and then let their new Creator who isn’t bound by agendas like Krishna, YHVH, or Gods in general decide their fate.

The fact that he was human is why Satan sees Nanashi as worthy of being a Creator, while Jrishna rejects trusting humans and gives zero free will to his Godslayer. Thus he’s a garbage tier Creator by default.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@likme
Well, Apocalypse Odin is returning, so we might get Polytheistic gods as their own faction again.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

tfw no smt imagine

Playboyize
Playboyize

@idontknow
If billions of Hindus wanted that why did he come over to Japan and crucify a bunch of Japanese Christians that had nothing to do with their country and incarnate as a Japanese version of a Buddhist deity? Krishna was also according to the art book nothing like the suave man we see. His previous incarnation wanted to destroy everything with no ultimate objective until when he met ancient Onmyouji Flynn.

SniperWish
SniperWish

Can't wait for my box to arrive

MPmaster
MPmaster

@LuckyDusty
reimagine.online

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Gigastrength
abrahamic
What's the deal with this, user?

idontknow
idontknow

Why p5babies complain about p3 gameplay when it's literally the most close to smt?

girlDog
girlDog

Why sj is the best smt game of them all?

Lunatick
Lunatick

I just wanted to say p5 and p2 made me want to play smt, how the hell did it turn into "Gay rights in Japan"

Supergrass
Supergrass

@askme
The act of creating a nu-Dagda just so that it agrees with Danu is so evil, I can't get over it.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Supergrass
The game gives Danu the moral high ground to do anything, from murder (Dagda), matricide (Inanna), and hypocrisy (Massacre)

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Supergrass
Danu is a colossal cunt. Had the game been Danu vs Dagda in your COMP without the "friends" it would have been pretty fun

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@StrangeWizard
She's not a cunt, she just doesn't fit the narrative of the game at all. Nozomi being Fairy Queen rendered her role unnecessary.

RavySnake
RavySnake

oc

Skullbone
Skullbone

@RavySnake
Yeah ok, this is pretty good user, i giggled

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Playboyize
Because the rest of the world fucked itself up with wars and nukes.
It is implied that Japan is the only bastion of humanity left.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

The more I think about, SMT has always been tied to Nintendo. That seems weird to me.
Smt 1, 2, 4, 5, strange journey, ports of DDS: MT1&2 on the GBA, if... on the SNES, soul hackers, both DeSurv games.

Did I forget anything? I don't know why people (including me in the past) had preconceptions about it not being a "Nintendo franchise" and shouldn't be on the 3DS/Switch.

Of course there's the entirety of persona and DDS, and Raidou, and uh, NINE.

Still though.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Gigastrength
Nocturne as baby's first SMT, as well as persona being released with
SMT: Persona
In the west

girlDog
girlDog

@MPmaster
How active is that server?

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Gigastrength
Don't forget the Bible games, most of the Demikids series, Majin Tensei 1+2 and the original Megami Tenseis for the Famicom.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@idontknow
inb4 AI controlled party members

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Gigastrength
Golden era of PS2 games?
90% of 3D Metagen games are on Sony console.
Only #FE and future V on Nintendo.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Bidwell
Yeah, but it's going back to where it started and has probably the bulk of the catalog on

Bidwell
Bidwell

@AwesomeTucker
The only people who complain about the ai are noobs who can't into tactics or someone that never played the game

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Bidwell
This. It's like the Marin Karin meme, something that never happened to Mitsuru for me in all my playthroughs, and she never left my party.

Methshot
Methshot

@SniperGod
Man, that fuckin marin karin meme. If someone just bothered to set Mitsuru in full assault that would've never happened. But no, let's just complain about why the ai and tactics are bad because we are too dumb to use them.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Help Persona 5 become GOTY 2017

Methshot
Methshot

@Ignoramus
It isn't, so why would I?

takes2long
takes2long

@Ignoramus
But I liked other games more.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Ignoramus
It's never going to win GOTY, it deserves either best RPG or Best OST/Art Direction though.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@AwesomeTucker
I'm pretty sure you could make them manually controlled in settings but it made battles really long also that you couldn't change their Persona was a fucking retarded idea

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Supergrass
Well, that was supposed to be the bad part of Blasted Tokyo.
So much for Bonds, I guess. YHVH really should call you out for opposing his genocide attempts, since you're okay with making new subordinates if they think wrong.
Lucky for you, you can finish the genociding job yourself, kid!
They can't be hypocrites IF THEY'RE DEAD!

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Ignoramus
Hell no.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@AwesomeTucker
@Methshot
I set her to exploit enemy weakness and she still did the Marin kirin meme. You P3 kiddies should kys. Being unable to control your party members with the fact on how long it takes to do a single move makes the game a chore. Not to mention the dungeons are ass.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

I hate the encounter rate in SMT I

whereismyname
whereismyname

@BlogWobbles
Set her to full assault, retard.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Need_TLC
Yeah it's kind of sucky. Plenty of opportunities to overlevel though at least.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

Should I bother play the series in chronological order?

Emberfire
Emberfire

@VisualMaster
i unironically say yes but if the early games are too offputting then don't

whereismyname
whereismyname

@whereismyname
Its not the games fault its a piece of shit
set the healer to ONLY attack

Amazing game. And like I said that is not the only games problem.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Emberfire
MT1 is kind offputting but I think I may be doing something wrong, like my build isn't exactly what's described in the guide but it's not far off either. did I fuck up by only getting weapons at the start, cause demons fucking shred me in each encounter.

girlDog
girlDog

@whereismyname
Are you braindead or what? She's not the only healer in the game anyway. You could also pick yukari or you know CHANGE HER FUCKING TACTIC, you are just shitpsoting at this point.

Inmate
Inmate

@Booteefool
best OST
no

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Inmate
Nier deserves the best ost.

massdebater
massdebater

@girlDog
She can still and has still done Marin Karin when I needed health. The game is awful dude and thats not the only issue that game has. Not being able to control your team mates is an awful choice design wise and its only P3 kids that defend it.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@VisualMaster
No, it's not worth it, play the older games when you already like the series

@Emberfire
Don't listen to this man

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@massdebater
I bet my ass your favourite persona is 4

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@RavySnake
Same thing happened to me, just try to get a bunch of demons as soon as you can dude. There's a "Something was hiding here!" Gnome encounter I think on the 6th floor you can grind for easy jewels and Macca for armor. In fact you'll be using those static monster spawns a lot throughout your game. Switch to the Nekomata spawn for experience grinding once you get to the 4th or 5th floor, it regularly gives around 150-200 per kill. Don't even bother to fight the Stolas and Orc faggots.

JunkTop
JunkTop

mitsuru has never done marin karin when i played P3 even when i put her on support
was i extremely lucky

FastChef
FastChef

@BlogWobbles
Marin Karin is great against difficult bosses like Intrepid Knight who don't have exploitable weaknesses. It's unlikely to work, but it's sometimes better than having a low-level Mitsuru cast weak ice spells a couple of turns before the boss roflstomps your party. If it does work, the boss becomes a joke.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@JunkTop
No, that's what happens when you choose the right tactic. That dude is prolly some pg retard trying to shitpost.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@Deadlyinx
This P3 vs P4 rivalry I will never understand. But no, looks like your ass is now mine. I hate P4.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@AwesomeTucker
see the problem is that I'm regularly taking 15+ damage each hit, and when you run into three gnomes or slugs that's lethal in one round. does armor take a lot of the brunt cause I literally don't have any, I only bought weapons at the start.

WebTool
WebTool

letting AI make the moves for your party because you're too retarded to do so yourself
persona babies WILL defend this

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@FastChef
Yeah, sometimes it can be useful, expecially before the mid game. I cheesed a tartarus boss by using incubus and succubus fusion spell.

@Need_TLC
DDS
oooh, now all makes sense.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@WebTool
It's not even fun when it takes a long time for each member to attack. I think I timed it once and it took like 11 seconds or so for it to be your turn again. I dont know how they fucked up fighting in 3D so badly after they did it great in Nocturne and in DDS. Shit was fast.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@GoogleCat
posting an image from a game means that game is automatically your favorite

happy_sad
happy_sad

@GoogleCat
The fuck is that supposed to mean your really telling me P3 is better then DDS? And it was more of a reference to how heat says "your ass is mine"

TechHater
TechHater

@Dreamworx
post two pic of the worst smt games
wew

TreeEater
TreeEater

@TechHater
SMT

JunkTop
JunkTop

@hairygrape
Yeah armor can help a lot. You should at least have gotten an Oak Shield for yourself. Doesn't the chest on the town floor give a Jewel? Gnomes have Zan which hits quite hard at that level so recruit one not only for the damage but also because you can talk to demons with an allied one of the same race and they'll leave you alone, they can even rarely give you an item. Early game is rough if you don't know what you're doing but it smooths out a lot at least for me until I got to the Sea of Flames. Also fuck Cockatrices.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@JunkTop
okay, I might restart then cause I've died so many times that I have no macca and gnomes seem to want macca to talk. I only made it to floor 6 anyways, so I'm not far.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

What did they mean by this

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

Why P4DAN is the best megaten?

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

I love not being able to control my party in FES. It makes it feel more real, like you are an actual individual shouting orders at your teammates, and sometimes the outcome of those orders aren't exactly what you had in mind. One should not rely on one's friends as much as one relies on oneself.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

P4DAN is unironically better than #FE

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Gigastrength
Fuck.
Now I want SMT game where you shouting orders and spells into microphone.

And fuck you, Mitra-Buddah

massdebater
massdebater

@Stark_Naked
Why?

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Gigastrength
Unironically this. It was definetely a nice quirk and reflected the mc-centric story of the game.

@Stark_Naked
Ofc. Everything is better than that trash

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Evil_kitten
she's not a cunt

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@SomethingNew
are you the user who got his shit kicked in by mitra buddha?

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Techpill
Missing Irish Dagda
Your loss.

askme
askme

@Harmless_Venom
Yes.

askme
askme

@WebTool
A loli and a shota. SMTV is about a pedophile. Law ending is you brainwash it out of you, Chaos is you start diddling kids. Neutral means you still have the desires but don't act on it.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

I beat my first ever SMT boss my guys

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Lunatick
Danu as a character isn't the problem. It's the narrative giving making her unambiguously good for supporting humanity that makes her a cunt. If she was portrayed as flawed, or admit to wrong doing, then people wouldn't hate her. Killing her own son and mother figure for the greater good was what rubbed people the wrong way.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@askme
did you ever manage to beat him?

SniperGod
SniperGod

@ZeroReborn
MT1
SMT
Play real smt game.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Raving_Cute
Thanks this made me smile
@SniperGod
After I finish this one and the sequel I'll move onto SMTI ESL-kun

iluvmen
iluvmen

@eGremlin
the thing is that neither dagda nor danu are portrayed as flawed in apoc. sure, a lot of people say dagda's fucked up, as opposed to just dagda saying danu's fucked up, but that makes sense given their paths.

at the end of the day, you're either killing your friends or your erasing the god who saved you and replacing him with a copy, neither of which is actually an outright good or bad decision, since you can look at it as a massacrefag or a bondsfag.

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Need_TLC
I tried few more times and gave up.

Evilember
Evilember

@Lunatick
danu seems to embody the nu age "spiritual" fags who cry about how beautiful life is and that you should be grateful for being born into lifetime of suffering because all they look at is the surface with the birdies and flowers, afraid of looking under it into ocean's depths or tropical jungles to see the true horrific and disgusting form of life.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Evilember
nu age "spiritual" fags
Japan culture's been at it since before you were born.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@ZeroReborn
Starting with KMT 1
Based. Are you liking the game so far?

viagrandad
viagrandad

@RavySnake
Well, if you ever do get back to it, good luck, user

Playboyize
Playboyize

/vg/thread/195350928#p195549602
/vg/thread/195350928#p195550490
I'm sorry for not checking the link, anons. As penance for my offense against Law, here is a more permanent upload:

SMT 1 endgame savefile:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/95c74ivio7jc7m6/save.rar

@Ignoramus
Please remember to add it to one of the pastebins.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@viagrandad
Are you liking the game so far?
Yes, a ton. I love all of the unique mechanics but the magic system has to be my favorite. There's so many flashy spells and with the nature of the game getting hard hits on enemies feels extremely rewarding. I saw Strange Journey has the Demon Co-op attack system and I'm excited to check that out once I get to that entry. I wouldn't say the game is overtly hard but it's difficult in comparison with modern titles like Pokemon where you can pretty much just streamroll your way through. This is the breath of fresh air I needed and I'd say it rekindled my love for vidya. I don't remember the last time when I was this dedicated to finishing a game.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

For the guys last thread wondering why there are no generals on 2chan: Futaba isn't the place you go for that.
2ch (now 5ch) is what you were looking for and they have a ton of subboards for games and several generals for MT games. Their DSJ thread is at #171 already.

@girlDog
Seriously, I haven't played SJ in a while and was slowly forgetting how good it was but DSJ reminded me.
For everyone who loved SJ and wanted to replay it. Do DSJ, it's worth it, my dudes.

@King_Martha
He should listen to that man, if he is already used to older games and/or dungeon crawlers.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Need_TLC
It's especially ridiculous in the Mega CD version.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@haveahappyday
Do DSJ
We can't.

TechHater
TechHater

@TurtleCat
Soon

Firespawn
Firespawn

@TechHater
It's "early 2018", right?

FastChef
FastChef

@Firespawn
The fact that Atlus USA hasn't uploaded a trailer or announced a date yet makes me doubtful. I am calling for a September 2018 release. Screencap this.

FastChef
FastChef

@FastChef
Atlus USA hasn't uploaded a trailer
there was one quite a while ago, but with no release date

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

Jesus

happy_sad
happy_sad

@GoogleCat
World of 力!

Playboyize
Playboyize

getting in the threadly reminder to put any VGL 9 suggestions here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LiAfb2Q9FYJLFQ6yWgaW694MQWztIvG6_22xyByFOr4/edit?usp=sharing

also, there was a guy who ripped a few models a few threads back, if whoever that was can visit the VGL discord and give me a hand with getting the models onto players, i'd appreciate it

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@happy_sad
Can't break the floor with your hand without at least 99 STR

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Lord_Tryzalot
I don't care. I don't think the plan being justified relies on most people currently wanting it. I'm just pointing out that passing it off as something no one wants would be misleading. Sure, only certain people are confirmed to, but you have the mormon missionary looking demons preaching that you can do so, and allowing anyone who wants in. Which sounds like more did. What's more, the reason people aren't is because they are afraid and it seems like oblivion to them. So that's a biased narriative.

MPmaster
MPmaster

What's your favorite demikids demon design?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@StrangeWizard
Huh? Abrahamic is the collective term for religions like judaism, christianity, islam. Its a faster way to say it so that you don't say christian and sound like you are leaving out jews or vice versa.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Sir_Gallonhead
Which was caused by Gods Wrath aka the Archangels manipulating the Nukes to bomb each other. Kill the Archangels no nukes and then you have Infernal Tokyo.

And in fact Hindu and Buddhist Gods are shown thriving when we visit. Tokyo Bay even becoming the new Soma factory for Shiva and them.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@Supergrass
The fact that people care about this is so ridiculous. Like yeah, sure its dubious, but they didn't do it for no reason. It was necessary to keep you alive.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@iluvmen
But Nanashi and the group never interacted with YHVH. Only Demons and Stephen knows who he is and try to persuade Nanashi to kill YHVH because he limit's humanity's progress.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Ignoramus
It is based on people and how they view it, and those who did have their souls swallowed by Shesha Flynn that remember do point out it was a terrible thing. So even when they experience it they don’t like it. If that’s the case how many of the souls that chose it want to escape now? Ixtab had something similar with her prisoners of paradise.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@eGremlin
Lets be honest. A lot of it is people on the spectrum who sympathize with dagda for being an asshole in many of the same ways they are, so they deliberately choose to interpret replacing him in the worst way possible as if danu doing this one time in a crisis is as bad as the fact that dagda gives no shits about building an entire world on that kind of logic. Notably, what danu did isn't even as bad, since she didn't brainwash him, just give birth to a different person to replace him.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Dreamworx
It wasn’t as she now had the Mother of Allanfertility power Danu could have used those powers and birthed another deity to serve the same purpose. Instead she just made a clone of her son who was still edgy but enslaved by the Bond to his mother.

Considering the series and it’s love of cycles it wouldn’t be surprising if this wasn’t the first time she’s done this to Dagda either.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@TalkBomber
I honestly wished that Infernal and Blasted Tokyo were incorporated into Apocalypse. Krishna's path leading straight to Infernal Tokyo would've explained better why the Divine Powers shouldn't be trusted.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@iluvmen
you can look at it as a massacrefag or a bondsfag.

Or you can look at it the correct way instead.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@SniperWish
If the party had acted more professionally and the main characters didn't fall back on friendship as an answer to every question ask of them by demons, then people would have picked bonds. Bonds felt too Japanese with the undercurrent of the younger generation taking over the country, while the older generation is simply evil for not knowing when to quit and solve everything themselves.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@StonedTime
Infernal and Blasted do show that when push comes to shove they’ll pick a side and do aweful stuff to humans. The new guys that did IVA did a pretty basic outline of a superficial understanding of minor sidequests that never got as expanded as they should have in IV.

Cernunnos (Who as a Celtic God is a fairy) and the Old Gods rising back, Aztec and Norse Gods siding with YHVH in Blasted and/or trying to impose their own form of order, Mother Goddess MA making new humans from demon parts, asshole fairies like Pealladih and Dagdas daughter Brigid wanting daddy Dagdas Cauldron Which she offhandedly mentions can revive the dead fairies via Danus resurrection for some reason.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@SniperWish
Notably, what danu did isn't even as bad, since she didn't brainwash him, just give birth to a different person to replace him.
YHVH also just wants to give birth to a new humanity after finding out that the current one doesn't like him anymore. He gets called out on that by Nozomi and friends.
Really makes you think.

Also calling people autists only because they think that that was hypocritical is pretty funny but not really a good argument

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Need_TLC
The new guys that did IVA wanted to focus on friendship to attract newer audiences onto mainline. They prioritized appealing to the Persona crowd at the expense of the story, which is why there's moe characters in the middle of a post apocalyptic story.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Crazy_Nice
YHVH also just wants to give birth to a new humanity after finding out that the current one doesn't like him anymore. He gets called out on that by Nozomi and friends.
Really makes you think.

No it doesn't. Giving birth to a person who resembles another person has nothing at all to do with xenociding all of humanity. Stretching the aesthetic similarities into an equivalence is how its obvious its being disingenuous. Its like saying that if someone told you that if you kill one dude they will prevent a war where billions die, and then you say well it might not be the best, but its the best of available options, then they go haha, you think death is bad, but you killed one guy. We're the same!!

Also calling people autists only because they think that that was hypocritical is pretty funny but not really a good argument

Its not an argument. Its what is known as an insult. Its when you disparage someone because you think they have undesirable qualities.

In reality though, its unambiguously clear that there's a noticeable trend of people who are mentally off liking dagda. The two most well known dagdafags, jarinjove, and beltanecrisis also happen to notably be two of the most insane people in any megaten community.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Illusionz
Or maybe it’s something they wanted to try writing themselves. They are new afterall and this where They are allowed to do their own thing. I’m sure Mother Goddess (male) wouldn’t have been a thing otherwise.

girlDog
girlDog

@Emberburn
Giving birth to a person who resembles another person has nothing at all to do with xenociding all of humanity
It does and you're either retarded or deliberately leaving out that you kill the person the new person resembles.
It's literally the fucking same action, just with a different scale. The act itself is what matters in this case since the bond circlejerk doesn't say that YHVH's plan is good but the scale is too big. No, what he's planning to do gets presented as bad..

In reality though, its unambiguously clear that there's a noticeable trend of people who are mentally off liking dagda.
Please give me the scientific studies that prove that trend.

The two most well known dagdafags, jarinjove, and beltanecrisis also happen to notably be two of the most insane people in any megaten community.
And people like you caring about attention whores like that happen to be the reason why the "community" is cancer. Please don't try to bring that e-celeb shit to an anonymous imageboard. Having to deal with beadman is more than enough.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Emberburn
I mean I sympathize more with Dagda than I do Danu, but my bias is partly do to the overuse and shitty use of Bonds.

Dagda for the insane edgelord that he is does believe in what he’s doing is better, while most shonen-tier stories it would have turned out he wanted friends all along and since he couldn’t get any decides to blow up the universe.

Persona even did this Sho Minazuki just to show how overused it is.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@girlDog
It does and you're either retarded or deliberately leaving out that you kill the person the new person resembles.

Yeah. This goes back to the "you're on the spectrum" thing. You're acting like they are killing him for fun. No, its because he is insane as balls, and is trying to destroy the universe but in the more immediate sense, he is trying to kill you. Note here that dagda would rather spitefully kill you, letting yhvh stay in power, than have you go on and do bonds. Your entire nonsensical point is predicated on incorrectly conflating dagda being insane with humanity existing in a way yhvh doesn't like, by trying to conflate -every single potential thing people dislike together as- "someone is doing something I don't like." Only someone legitimately on the spectrum uses logic like that to conflate holocaust level violence with shooting someone who is currently trying to kill you in self defence.

It's literally the fucking same action, just with a different scale.

Yep. You're definitely on the spectrum. Killing one villain who is currently in the process of doing villainous shit is nothing at all like killing all of humanity for the benefit of one single person. Would it make you feel better if they killed dagda but didn't make a new one? That's pure emotional sperging talking. They needed a new one because dagda bound you to his power, so they needed his power to keep you alive. And they need you to save the world.

And people like you caring about attention whores like that happen to be the reason why the "community" is cancer.

No, its people like you who are noticeably on the spectrum to such a high degree that you legitimately can't tell that you're sperging nonsense right now. That autists are given free reign to spout nonsense like this without consequence is why serious discussion doesn't really happen on smtg, but ends after about two posts.

Lunatick
Lunatick

dogda is a demon in apoc
dog backwards is god
dogda is a god
wtf

Nojokur
Nojokur

I love the Demonica Girls!

StonedTime
StonedTime

@FastChef

Does March-April seem plausible, since Radiant Historia 3DS is gonna get released in February?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Emberburn
You're acting like they are killing him for fun.
Nice strawman. Would you mind staying rational here and not waste my time having to point out that I didn't say or imply that?

No, its because he is insane as balls, and is trying to destroy the universe but in the more immediate sense, he is trying to kill you.
I can't even remember him saying that he wants to destroy the universe but if he did, then yes that'd be a difference between his and Danu's action (leaving the scale aside).

Note here that dagda would rather spitefully kill you, letting yhvh stay in power, than have you go on and do bonds
Note here that Danu and your friends would rather spitefully kill you, letting yhvh stay in power, than have you go on and do massacre.

Your entire nonsensical point is [...} "someone is doing something I don't like."
That's not my point and I could call you autistic for assuming it is, if I were on the same level as you. But let me just not make any assumption about your personality (since it doesn't matter at all in a discussion like this one which the way this site works should already have made clear to you by the way) and refer to you to what I wrote above about not wasting my time.

Only someone legitimately on the spectrum uses logic like that to conflate holocaust level violence with shooting someone who is currently trying to kill you in self defence.
Again, my point is that they call out YHVH for something they did before, on a smaller level. Now if they made clear that they are consequentialists and don't actually think the method would be wrong, I'd have no problem with it. But it sure sounds like they condemn the action itself with their little speeches at the boss fight.

I'll ignore the rest of your post because of the post limit and it seems to be fulll of worthless strawman and ad-hominem "arguments" anyways. If you think there was a good point in there try to leave out all the fluff

WebTool
WebTool

@StrangeWizard
Fuck, where can i buy that Alice plushie?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@TalkBomber
You still didn't provide a reason why they are equivalent situations other than your inability to understand the difference between replacing someone you are already fighting against who is going to die anyways, and killing tons of people for no reason. Again, your argument has no point because for it to make sense it would need to rest on the assumption that they weren't killing him for any reason in particular other than wanting to replace him. Something that isn't the case, and so makes your entire point fall apart. They didn't so the same thing, since they aren't killing someone to replace them. They are killing someone trying to kill them. So there is no "principled" reason why it is similar. It sounds like you don't really understand principle based ethics, and are getting confused by a similarity that isn't at all as related as you think it is. Its the difference between killing someone in a war they started against you, and killing a random civilian because you don't like them.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@TalkBomber
@TalkBomber
Can you two shut the fuck up, please? That'd be great.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@TalkBomber
Please leave.

Techpill
Techpill

@cum2soon
please cum.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@TalkBomber
@TalkBomber
Tenderly fuck already

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

SMTV has a surprise for everyone.

viagrandad
viagrandad

SMT x Chex Quest

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@viagrandad
Fuck off, SMT is not an RPG

Techpill
Techpill

@New_Cliche
Please.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Deadlyinx
This, it's clearly an eroge

RavySnake
RavySnake

@TalkBomber
You still didn't provide a reason why they are equivalent situations other than your inability to understand the difference between replacing someone you are already fighting against who is going to die anyways, and killing tons of people for no reason.
I do understand. It's not relevant though since we're not talking about the second case.

Here, maybe you understand what I'm trying to say like this:
Dagda made a contract with Nanashi in which they agreed that he resurrects him in exchange for being his bitch. On bonds Nanashi breaks that contract. Dagda wants to kill him by just cutting the life line.
Danu wants to kill Dagda for not being an obedient child but she still needs him (for keeping Nanashi alive, I guess), so she just creates another one and after that doesn't seem to have a problem with killing Dagda.
Now fast forward to the YHVH fight.
Humans barge into YHVH's place in order to kill him (because a guy in a wheelchair said it'd be fun).
YHVH obviously is a little bit disapoint with son and doesn't want to get killed, so he tells the humans that since they seem to be out for him, he needs to kill them and create a new one so that they can continue sucking his dick.
Now the party reaction OMY how awful !!!11!!

QED

@Flameblow
@Techpill
@VisualMaster
no fug u

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@RavySnake
I got your point, it was just incorrect. You also proved my point, by depicting killing dagda as some casual thing they just kind of decide to do, and not something that is because he is actively trying to kill them / their universe / you / etc. Your entire mistake rests on you autistically refusing to accept that they were already needing to kill dagda in that scene. Its not even like he merely stops feeding you power. He actively starts attacking the team. He identifies himself as an enemy, and so there is no reason to have any issue with killing him.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@New_Cliche
by depicting killing dagda as some casual thing they just kind of decide to do, and not something that is because he is actively trying to kill them / their universe / you / etc
Why did you think I included the part about Dagda wanting to kill Nanashi?

He actively starts attacking the team.
Don't remember that, do you have a video link or images?

He identifies himself as an enemy, and so there is no reason to have any issue with killing him.
Now read that part about humans trying to kill YHVH again. How do they identify themselves in regard to YHVH?

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Lunatick
An entire population wanting to kill yhvh because he is the one antagonizing them deliberately isn't at all the same situation as dagda wanting to kill everyone else. They weren't coming to fight yhvh for no reason, but because he actively caused them death. Also, they were the entire population, and he is one guy. If one person tries to nuke an entire country and the country kills him he isn't the victim. And dagda is like yhvh in this instance. There's no way around the fact that dagda is the one who antagonized your group first, after saying his plan was to kill you all. You are deliberately trying to confuse yourself with the "replace" part. When if you ignore that, what is happening is more obvious. Dagda spergs out and declares his plan to kill you all, fights you, tries to kill you now, and so of course you kill him first. What should they have done? Go oh well, lets let dagda kill us. We wouldn't want to very vaguely aesthetically resemble something totally different that yhvh might do later.

Your entire argument was steeped in autism from the beginning. This is a line of thought only selfish people who legitimately don't understand numbers or people with different wills would make. Just like in real life where autists sperg out and then present themselves as the victim. They sympathize with dagda because he did the same.

eGremlin
eGremlin

Actually, I got an interesting thought to ponder due to all the discussion.
Merkabah and Lucy find Flynn in the monochrome forest, meaning, alignment reps and by extension YHVH at least on some level is aware of multiversity like White are. Considering being aware(no indication, but entertain for sake of argument) that one of the ningens is going to come to YHVH's domain to eventually kill him, would it be reasonable to replace them entirely i.e. nuke everyone since they're his creation anyway?

FastChef
FastChef

@haveahappyday
2ch (now 5ch) is what you were looking for
Any nip-speaking user trying to find out if they have the mobile games here?

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Emberburn
You are deliberately trying to confuse yourself with the "replace" part
That replace part is my point.
Let me rephrase one last time:
If killing someone in self-defense and creating a new brainwashed version of that person is acceptable, then you can't call YHVH out on doing that (again in a larger scale) unless you make it clear that the method itself isn't bad as long as it leads to good results.

This is a line of thought only selfish people who legitimately don't understand numbers or people with different wills would make
See @girlDog
just with a different scale

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

So I was wondering if anyone knows if the Gaston and Hal pages were scanned like this?

Methshot
Methshot

@StonedTime
The Powers were explicitly opposed to Lucifer's idea of freedom, though. They were definitely selfish and more interested in worshippers than human wellbeing, but their plan was a lot more humane.

massdebater
massdebater

@Methshot
Yes that is indeed true. Maitreya is a believer in World of STR but he also wanted humans to depend on them despite telling them to discard all attachments. That’s why he complains about you being a Massacrefag if you go down that route for not having attachments.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@FastChef
No, they don't even list the mobile games as part of the series on their wiki.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Methshot
Infernal Tokyo under the Divine Powers would be humane in the sense that Demons will be masters, and humans will be servants to gods. It's a choice between learning the Dharma from Maitreya, being eaten by Beelzebub just so he can be Baal, or a sex slave to Inanna as she uses you to make more babies.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@SniperGod
eat me Shesha

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

How do I get Raiho in Soulless Army?

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@TurtleCat
NG +

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@SniperGod
For their part demons were mostly in charge of Infernal. Only Kenji and later Akira being the sole Demonoids that amassed such power. Even an NPC points out most Demonoids that became one to beat demons lost and then submitted to them.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@WebTool
Only thing i found about that.
https://twitter.com/SEGA_akiba3/status/928821695061753858

SniperWish
SniperWish

@New_Cliche
Yeah, but Krishna's world would be more organized with demons given their own land and batch of humans to rule over. There shouldn't be much infighting unless Beelzebub eats Inanna's batch, and provokes a fight among the two. Or if Aspu and Seth started causing trouble on Odin's batch for shits and giggles.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@SniperWish
Apsu, seth, and beelzebub were just some of the demons though.

Don't forget the hundreds of fafnirs, pileses, cernunoses, ganeshas, hraesvelgrs that also want in on that human action

SniperWish
SniperWish

@King_Martha
Only demons who agree to Krishna's plan gets to live in his world. The Divine Powers is a private organization full of demons, not a government run agency designed so lazy demons can mooch of humans.

takes2long
takes2long

@Emberburn
Would it make you feel better if they killed dagda but didn't make a new one? That's pure emotional sperging talking.
While I see your point, this part reminds me of the time in old communities where the argument went that spergs couldn't understand the true emotions of people who would be offended if someone was replaced, etc, that is now completely reverted, so this part mildly made me think.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Somehow I became law aligned after my first boss in SJ. I feel unclean but at least apsaras can help me in demon co-ops now.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Boy_vs_Girl
Your heart yearns for the Lord, son of man. Though you are yet not ready to admit it.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Carnalpleasure
Investing points into INT instead of STR ever

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

My friend scored an interview with Sean Chiplock, the guy that voiced Navarre in IVA and Mishima in P5
Any question ideas?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@AwesomeTucker
Is he afraid of ghosts?

Methshot
Methshot

@Fried_Sushi
posting this image
when Lawhero was INT
and cheashero was STR

what did he mean by this

Nojokur
Nojokur

@AwesomeTucker
Navarre in IV was voiced by Liam O'Brien
What the fuck

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Methshot
It was six years since I played that game anon; I can't remember the stat distributions.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@iluvmen
No, i'm asking about making all the five sides be abrahamic. Isn't there already too much abrahamic shit on the series? It would be cool something diferent.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

Playing Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei right now, and it's very boring and tedious. Should i jump to SMT?

I mostly play this game for the story, and so i dont get called casual by you cucks. If the story in KMT are garbage. I might as well dropped it right now.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@CodeBuns
expecting story in a remake of a NES first person dungeon crawler

Nigga you dumb as fuck.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@CodeBuns
Don't bother with KMT unless you already really like the series, like seriously don't bother with old stuff at all for a while

Inmate
Inmate

@CodeBuns
The series is not for you. Play Persona 3-5 instead.

Inmate
Inmate

@Techpill
Whoa, I never realized Vergil has a built-in sheath for his katana, that's pretty cool.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Emberfire
@Gigastrength
Alright, dropped then. Thanks m8.

@Inmate
I finished all post-PS1 SMT game, except Raidou.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@CodeBuns
I love megaten II. There's this part where you lose your arm, it's great.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Playboyize

Not that guy, but he made the models available here: /vg/thread/194919589#p194927042

Are you able to just provide that to the VGL guys?

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@CodeBuns
It cannot be helped. You will need to accept your place as a second-class /smtg/ citizen.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Methshot
No they weren't. Krishna didn't even seem to give a shit about any other gods. Which is why when you make your way to him, and the rest are dead he doesn't even seem to care. He never once treats the other gods like his main priority.

Maitreya is an asshole, but even he seems to care about whatever his wierd goal is, not just attention.

The only one you could make that claim for is odin, maybe. However, even odin doesn't seem to be as bad as he might seem. He does after all test you, to see whether you were worthy of valhalla. And he legitimately respects gaston enough to give him his spear even in death. So maybe even odin's world would have some kind of thing going on where people can trade places among gods.

@SniperWish

That's not krishna's world, its odin's world. The divine powers don't have a single goal. Their original name was the polytheistic alliance to stress that they are only united to be gods fighting against yhvh. The things krishna, odin, and maitreya tell you are seperate plans.

Techpill
Techpill

@StrangeWizard
nice mental gymnastics bro

how are the DP giving you 'separate plans' for each member? please, do tell

takes2long
takes2long

@takes2long
But in this case, the point is that spergs aren't trying to feel someone else's emotion, but that dagda resonates so well with them because they feel he reflects their own. Which is actually somewhat sad because he probably doesn't reflect their own so much as the ones they pretend to have since they are lonely, and so convince themselves that it was a choice.

Dagda being replaced reflects that too. Why would someone who wants to be alone care that someone else replaced them with someone else? The entire reason to get upset about that is if the desire for solitude is a facade held by people desperate to be accepted. And being replaced is the total opposite of that. It is a total denial of further consideration of you. An icon of rejection. It would absolutely be something people would feel bad about. Even though ironically for dagda, in a way it was exactly what he wanted, because someone new eating up his observation makes it easier for him to keep from regaining form.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

PUT THE NEEDLE ON THE RECORD

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@StrangeWizard
Maitreya is an asshole, but even he seems to care about whatever his wierd goal is, not just attention.
If I'm not mistaken he was basically a toned down and unambitious version of Dagda. He wanted people to depend on themselves too, but unlike Dagda he didn't advocate for the extermination of all other beings and he wanted people to stop forming earthly attachments. Dagda is all about seeing life as an Guilt-Free Extermination War of everybody against everybody where people are after this freedom of solitude of his, meanwhile Maitreya's vision is one where people stop caring about things in life and just be people going their own way until the end.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@eGremlin
Making there be five abrahamic sides WOULD be something different. The problem isn't there being too much abrahamic shit per say, but the fact that too many of the games have the exact same story. IV wasn't bad, but there was no way around its world being a worse rehash of I and II where for some strange reasons the cool religions get less attention, and random gangsters get more. There are many ways they could mix this up.

Additional abrahamic sides that are way different could add a ton. I mean, look at SMTII alone. Its generally considered the best game story-wise. And what is different? There's a dark-law side, and also a division between normal law and yhvh. Even then though, one thing that could have been better, is that the center doesn't look unique enough. They thought throwing belphegor on it was enough, but imagine a game where something like a unique dark side composed of grigori, but still looking vaguely dark-christian fills that role? Five might be overkill, but at least law, neutral, chaos, and dark law should be in one game all abrahamic. Neutral is not benefitting at all from being not even eastern, but focused on obscure historical figures no one knows about.

They can still have a human apotheosis rep for an abrahamic neutral. Some historical figure who was known for some kind of neutral heresy maybe. I'm sure there's someone.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@StrangeWizard
That's not krishna's world, its odin's world. The divine powers don't have a single goal. Their original name was the polytheistic alliance to stress that they are only united to be gods fighting against yhvh. The things krishna, odin, and maitreya tell you are seperate plans.
What they'd do with the humans left under each one was different, not a single end, but they were all planning on splitting the souls.It's how they carried the alliance in the first place.

SniperGod
SniperGod

>>19564986
B-but why abrahamic, user? Why ANOTHER game focused on this and why FIVE paths that are abrahamic? Why do you like this shit so much? Why not give space to others?

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Garbage Can Lid
Merkabah's titties scare me away from the lord, I'll take Lucifer's bald head instead.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@takes2long
Dagda being replaced reflects that too. Why would someone who wants to be alone care that someone else replaced them with someone else? The entire reason to get upset about that is if the desire for solitude is a facade held by people desperate to be accepted. And being replaced is the total opposite of that. It is a total denial of further consideration of you. An icon of rejection. It would absolutely be something people would feel bad about. Even though ironically for dagda, in a way it was exactly what he wanted, because someone new eating up his observation makes it easier for him to keep from regaining form.
That makes me think even more than before
@Poker_Star
dark-christian
Like pic?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Techpill
Entirely discounting that this was directly confirmed in an interview, its extremely obvious in retrospect, because its the entire theme of the game.

What happens in-game:

Angels, and fallen angels unite to be one team composed of angels despite having different ideologies.

By the end, humans unite together to fight for humans, despite having different ideologies, and toki randomly talking at the end about still wanting a world of strength.

A ton of different gods are in a group called the polytheistic alliance, who each talk about different ideologies.

Its pretty obvious that they have seperate plans. Krishna wants everyone to unite as one. Maitreya wants people to get paranirvana (The game strangely doesn't have him explain what about his world would actually make that more likely though). Odin wants each god to live in the world ruling over some souls. The only reason you can confuse these for one plan is because you look at odin and think that either 1: maybe krishna's plan is merely one thing that happens with some souls, or 2: the gods are inside krishna too each ruling a portion in different ways. But 2 is clearly ridiculous, because many types of existence they might want would be incompatible, and 1 doesn't sound at all like krishna's goal. And neither are compatible with maitreya's really even if they sound similar. And all of that is ignoring that many of the lesser gods like meme sun god seem to want human sacrifice to exist, which clearly isn't compatible with being inside someone where reincarnation doesn't.

Believe me, I was confused at first too, because the game doesn't make it more obvious. But once you read the artbook interview, and then think over it again in retrospect it becomes so.

Supergrass
Supergrass

THE DRUM BEAT GOES LIKE THIS

Skullbone
Skullbone

What does /smtg/ think of Petal-kun as of now?

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Skullbone
Needs to get rid of bowl cut.

WebTool
WebTool

This is the Kaneko of ultimate power. Good art and character designs will come to you but only if you reply "ADD A DICK TO IT".

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@takes2long
Your obsession with your strawman of autists defending Dagda is hilarious.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@PackManBrainlure
I don't think dagda sees it as a war of everyone versus everyone. In fact, one of the things justifying "dark neutral" as "not chaos" is the fact that while strife would often happen, to them its not SPECIFICALLY about strife, more just about doing your own thing, and then be it as it may when strife occurs. For instance, note on dagda's path, you don't -quite- instigate direct violence. You just go and say you are going to do stuff, and people should get out of your way if they don't want it. That was probably intentional.

One difference is that maitreya seems to want dissolution into nature as a goal for everyone. Whereas dagda doesn't want it for humans, and only kind of wants it for gods? The tone is a little different, since dagda is about neutral freedom being taken different ways, whereas maitreya is more speficially about freeing yourself from reincarnation, I guess by destroying your soul and dissolving into the world apparently, which the game treats like paranirvana. But doing so by practicing until you reach some peak, and decide you have nothing left to prove. Its true that their goals have a lot of overlap, but they aren't quite the same in tone. Dagda wants humans to glorify their own will, but maitreya wants them to glorify a specific goal. That he presents the goal as an absolute, and toki says that cringeworthy line about telling him to shut up makes it obvious that the game expects you to see it as distinct.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@New_Cliche
I know, he sounds like he's speaking from experience

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@BlogWobbles

No it wasn't. See:

@BlogWobbles

DeathDog
DeathDog

@StrangeWizard
Their goals and attention are closely intertwined due to the nature of deities. If people don't view them the way they want to be seen, their nature will change.
Krishna's goal was somewhat vague and I'm not sure if the artbook or other outside material clarified it any more, but I interpreted his talk of a great singularity as being his personal new existence as the creator of the new world, issuing out souls to the deities who followed him. He wanted to be a central and necessary function of the new universe.
Regardless, their universe had nothing to do with Lucifer's idea of chaos. Krishna, Odin, and Dagda all finger him for being YHVH's pawn and furthering the cycle of suffering. For every war deity there's another representing harmless or beneficial qualities. I'm not saying it was a good outcome, but it was dramatically different than what Lucifer advocated in 4.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@takes2long
There aren't going to be two Dagda's after the first one gets wiped.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@WebTool
Here's your pity reply since I'm feeling particularly generous this morning.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

tfw stopped DDS1 ages ago because my PS2 broke
get a new slim
load up save
Brutes Base
can't remember what the fuck I needed to do
no MP recovery
fuck

hairygrape
hairygrape

@AwesomeTucker
He read about some legit retards trying to defend Dagda with their shitty attempts at logic and gets triggered every time anyone (regardless if that person is being reasonable or not) does defend him or even say anything against Danu thinking that it could only be someone like the retards he mentioned.
Sounds like he's turning autistic himself.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

Dagda did always strike me as an edgy autist

Danu's a hypocrite, though, which isn't much better.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@SniperGod
Don't get me wrong. Games about other things would be cool. But so would this. The problem with some other things is that other things don't have the same antagonism of angels and demons.

What will it be:

odin vs ice giants?

vishnu vs shiva?

devas vs asuras?

amatsukami vs kunitsukami?

It becomes obvious when you think over these that a lot probably aren't interesting enough to carry an entire game. And should actually be more obvious side aspects of others.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Nude_Bikergirl
odin vs ice giants?
This would be the lamest shit ever

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@DeathDog
No? His talk about a singularity wasn't just him saying he'd be powerful. He specifically talked about how souls, by merging with him will be free from reincarnation. Basically the universe itself will be one cosmic god that you live within, and who can protect your soul from falling out of.

Also, I never said that they were chaos? I'm not sure whether that part is you confusing me with something someone else said. They were clearly meant to be more analogous to reasons, and to be similar to but different from alignments. Krishna was alt-law, odin was alt-neutral, and maitreya was alt-chaos. Which there's intuitive logic for, since krishna / vishnu was a law character in I, and buddhist shit has been chaos since forever.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@King_Martha
That's what I said. In a way it was what he wanted, because there being a second one makes it easier for the first to not be observed into existence. The new one will eat up the dagda observation, letting the first one stay as nature.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@hairygrape
Now we know you're not paying attention. No one actually defends danu, because no one gives a shit about danu.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@DeathDog
I do think it would be funny if they depicted odin as chaos, and hel as law, conflating valhalla with warfare, and law with a "frozen world." But that would be funny as like a single tiny part of a game, not an actual whole game.

And ige giants are like primal nature shit, which always has to lean chaos in game anyways. Which is probably why thor was law originally.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

STILL no recordings of the law concert
I thought it would take awhile but did no one actually record it at all? What is the point if so few people got to listen to all that music?

hairygrape
hairygrape

@eGremlin
Considering being aware(no indication, but entertain for sake of argument) that one of the ningens is going to come to YHVH's domain to eventually kill him, would it be reasonable to replace them entirely i.e. nuke everyone since they're his creation anyway?
Yeah it's his only chance at survival.

@Illusionz
No one actually defends danu, because no one gives a shit about danu.
@SniperWish
Notably, what danu did isn't even as bad, since she didn't brainwash him, just give birth to a different person to replace him.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Boy_vs_Girl
That isn't how it works. New Dagda will be how people see nature because it's the only thing they have to interpret. Old Dagda's thought process will cease to exist entirely or be incorporated into new Dagda(which seems to be implied).

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

apocalypse
asahi and toki fight over nanashi
nozomi dresses like a whore
toki literally masturbates
dsj
unnecessary waifu pandering
smt5:
main character has a girlfriend
skirt so short you can see her underwear

is it safe to say that we are becoming persona?

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Raving_Cute
unnecessary waifu pandering
Where?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

arguing over IV:A'splot this deeply
It is the worst game to debate story as it is just a mess all around. Writing in IV:A isn't its strong point, this should be common knowledge by now.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Raving_Cute
toki literally masturbates
GOTYOAY

hairygrape
hairygrape

@CouchChiller
You can't "cease to exist" in megaten. That's the entire point of the cycle of reincarnation. Returning to nature IS kind of ceasing to exist. When you kill dagda, his last lines imply that he's semi okay with the outcome because he kind of got some of what he wanted. Its a pretty clear indication that godslaying him lets most of his thought processes return to nature. Identity is ambiguous in megaten, so some of his identity might be in the new one, but that wasn't really a major implication of the scene. The implication was that being godslayed was not altogether that different from what he wanted, albeit not done directly under his own terms, which for whatever reason would have been ambiguously "better."

Keep in mind that he stresses that nature is his "original form." And in the interview they point out how originally there weren't gods. And in game he stresses that nature became gods. There's no rule that says gods in the bonds world can't become nature. Beings have done it in megaten before, like mem aleph.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@GoogleCat
Alex is essentially a waifu, and louisa ferre having a kid

askme
askme

@Gigastrength
The first post in this reply chain is someone saying Infernal Tokyo should've been in the game as the end result of Krishna's plan. I wasn't sure which part you were disputing.

I still think there's room to believe he was still working with the other deities, though. They left a lot unexplained since your party never tries to argue with anyone about ideology and just whines about friends and villainy instead.
Since humans in his universe will still be fully capable observers(because he wants them faithbucks) he has to do something for other deities to prevent them from all rebelling against him like they did YHVH.

Or maybe he's just arrogant enough to believe he can keep everyone else down even without a master plan like YHVH had.

askme
askme

@hairygrape
which for whatever reason would have been ambiguously "better."
It's the usual SMT forcing one's own opinion onto others thinking it'd be the best for everyone.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Nude_Bikergirl
You're considering the mythologies in a very simplistic way.
There's some cool shit in indian, norse and japanese religions. The Divine Powers is very popular and would be cool to see the games doing something with the philosophy aspects of those mythologies

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@askme
The first post in this reply chain is someone saying Infernal Tokyo should've been in the game as the end result of Krishna's plan.

that wasn't me. I'd never say something that ridiculous.

I mean, the other gods would no doubt live inside of him too. Part of the ambiguity of his plan is that its one of the most abstract endings described in megaten. They don't explain it because they expect you not to care.

And to be fair, maybe he assumes that they won't think to rebel for a long time. Its a law leaning plan, which makes it happening less likely. But nothing lasts forever anyways.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@JunkTop
How Alex is a waifu?
She dies, you can't spend eternity forever with her. There's no romance option, there's no moe shit moments. How lucifer having a child is waifu pandering?

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Raving_Cute
nozomi dresses like a whore
how
toki masturbates
o-oh no, women masturbate? how could this be happening?
waifu pandering
fuck off and die
main character has a gf
no he doesn't, he begones the thot
skirt so short you can see her underwear
waaah i hate when women do things that make them seem attractive
jesus christ i can smell your virginity from here you smelly autist

this series hasn't become persona, you've just grown up and are still a virgin.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@hairygrape
The implication was that being godslayed was not altogether that different from what he wanted, albeit not done directly under his own terms, which for whatever reason would have been ambiguously "better."
The obvious difference between his death in bonds and his death in massacre is that in massacre humans have become some kind of Übermensch which he thinks is a better world. He cared for humans in his way.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Raving_Cute
toki literally masturbates
What.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Garbage Can Lid
But how would they in a way that makes internal sense? Realistically they'd have to go cross-mythology and make it be beings versus other unrelated beings that they vaguely make an excuse for them being an ideology. The divine powers were united by their nature of being not abrahamic, and the story not caring about their goals. If krishna was just an alignment rep in his own game, who would be the other side?

I'm not saying it can't be done. Just that they'd have to be careful. The closest to this thus far was nocturne, and no one thought nocturne's sees of gods was non-retarded due to them essentially being thrown in at random.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@hairygrape
There's no such implication that he's happy with the outcome, just that he expected it. Yes, deities are the phenomena. They're how people see them. New Dagda is nature just as much as the old, and as people's views change so do the deities. Thus "we cannot waver from the roles we're assigned." That's the only reason he wanted to kill all the humans and start over. If humans didn't change, neither could he.

You're making things up to get the ending you want.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@w8t4u
Because her ass is on the cover. You being forced to lose her is a tragic tale.

@StonedTime
When doing the deadly sin jars. For the lust one, there is a thirty second sound track of her making orgasm noises. Essentially, coming in contact with it overpowers her sexually and gives her an orgasmic experience. You might miss it if you push through the dialogue fast but its there, and the voice clip goes on so long that its obviously meant to be arousing.

Evilember
Evilember

@StonedTime
When inanna possesess her she basically masturbates and orgasms since inanna is fucking with her.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@CodeBuns
and the voice clip goes on so long that its obviously meant to be arousing.
If you get aroused by poor cute girls being forced into orgasm, sure.
ITS RAPE

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Evil_kitten
Realistically they'd have to go cross-mythology
user, They already did this. Masakado is representative of the neutral path in more than one game. And it's a legend of japan, not of the abrahamic people.

Techpill
Techpill

@Methnerd
damn, i completely missed that
sending it to the aesthetics guys, hopefully we can get that working

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Burnblaze
is porn allowed on Veeky Forums as long as you color her skin black?

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Snarelure
Yes, it's even encouraged.
Source: My dad works for reddit.

askme
askme

@AwesomeTucker
why are you trying to defend this shit?
one aspect of smt that made it so special is that it was a jrpg that didn't pander to this shit
we have persona for a reason, it doesn't need to be in smt

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@Snarelure
it actually makes it better

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Dreamworx
I meant for him personally.

@AwesomeTucker
There's no such implication that he's happy with the outcome, just that he expected it

Yes there is. I don't mean he is literally happy as in he is okay with what happened overall. I mean when he is just about to die, he starts saying that you doing this game him some of what he wants. He rants about how being stuck in a god form isn't what he wanted. And then goes on to say that's why what you're doing isn't killing me, its... Its not super complicated to put two and two together and realize that godslaying destroys your form, and he wants his form destroyed, so on some level he's getting some of what he wanted. The ambiguity is just in that it seems doing it on your own terms is ambiguously "better." Because identity isn't 1:1, so while this gives him a bit of what he wants, its obviously not outright what he wants. Like in SJ it differentiates mem aleph returning to nature from zelenin singing demons into nature, even though both are similar ideas.

Just because a god form exists doesn't mean -he- has to be it. Gods have souls. There's obviously a difference if two souls incarnate into the same archetype, vs if one does, and the other destroys itself or whatever. Identity comes from two things in megaten, which is your specific line of causality, and the form you are. If his soul can dissolve back to nature, he gets some of what he wants.

You're making things up to get the ending you want.

No clue where you got this idea from. I'm just explaining the ending. If I was going to make things up to get the ending I want, I would say that the true ending is losing to vishnu-flynn on purpose.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Deadlyinx
I mean, its not really rape. She knew it was going to happen, and chose to do it. Also, there's no entity raping her. Its just an essence of orgasm. You can say she doesn't want it, but the implications aren't really the same.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Raving_Cute
Yes user, having a girlfriend literally makes you Persona.

WebTool
WebTool

@viagrandad
Why the fuck would he go on one last spiel about why he hates this universe before you kill him and force him to remain in it if he's happy with the outcome?

I swear you're just intent on shit talking Massacre at every turn.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@eGremlin
That barely counts. That's not cross mythology so much as it is abrahamic stories, with the correct outcome being humanism, and some random japanese guy who is used to represent it existing more or less apart from the main narrative. Why do you think people say neutral is so boring? Because barely anyone in japan, much less outside of it really gives a shit about masakado. Even people who play the games only do BECAUSE of knowing about him BECAUSE of the games.

That's my point. Masakado is random nonsense that feels out of place, and in those games the main drive is obviously abrahamic shit vs muh humanism. He's not even there to represent shinto or whatever else Japanese religion he is associated with so much as he is to represent being a human (??) and not abrahamic.

The main struggle is abrahamic. If they deviated from this, the main struggle might have to be multiple things. And the problem is few things really fit easily into this kind of story.

askme
askme

@AwesomeTucker
Since when are virgins the one who complain about waifu pandering? The stereotype is that virgins are the ones who like it.

I don't mind it. IVAs was just low quality.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Nojokur
You like people because you share the same interests as them. The protagonist likes a kawaii so random slut.
The implication is that the protagonist is a weak loser that cares about dumb things like relationships and cute things.

It might not be on the same levels as a persona game, but they are very similar

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

I haven't been here in years, could someone link me the If translation?

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@WebTool
Do you have legitimate autism? I didn't say he was totally happy with the outcome. Just that he got a PART of what he wanted from it. If you go back and actually watch the scene, you see him rant about hating being trapped in the body, but his last lines were a little more positive. Why do you think he's saying "you're not going to kill me." Its weird wording, but the meaning is that what you are doing to him in some way is something he actually wants. Its just not his absolute preferred version of it, but it -is- better than staying in his tangible form.

I also have no clue how this is shit talking massacre. This has nothing to do with massacre, and I'm not denying that both endings are shit.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@CouchChiller
https://i.imgur.com/QYMIRXW.png

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Firespawn
dumb things like relationships and cute things
Wew

@CouchChiller
Give Gideon $10,000 for the download link.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Firespawn
dumb fujoshi poster

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Stupidasole
10k only
that is low balling it. 95K is standard.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Firespawn
dumb things like relationships and cute things.
and cute things
OVER THE FUCKING LINE FAGGOT

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Stupidasole
yes they're dumb and girly things.
every smt protagonist is badass and cool. i mean come on, was this really necessary? why is her skirt so short other than to pander to japanese virgins?

Techpill
Techpill

@Booteefool
and cute things
im sorry to break the news, but youre a weak minded fucking faggot if you like cute thing

massdebater
massdebater

@CodeBuns
stop taking this shit so
*takes of sunglasses*
PERSONAlly

likme
likme

@CodeBuns
He did not play SMT II

Take (you)r (you) and begun.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@CodeBuns
What about Bobo?

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Firespawn
*tips fedora*

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Ignoramus
Not him but I'm sure pets don't count

MPmaster
MPmaster

@CodeBuns
I have a feeling she'll be tough by mid game.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

Bad news lawfags. I heard from someone earlier who knows koreans who have played it in japanese that on the new "good" law ending in SJ, zelenin basically is shown directly swearing off utilitarianism as "too extreme." This is a two sided coin if true. On the one hand its a direct mainline statement that law was utilitarianism, which there are still people trying to deny, but on the more negative side it basically means that the new endings are meant to be more neutral bullshit that ultimately is meant to reject the cores of law and chaos philosophy, but are just leaning in those directions.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. Maybe its not as direct as they make it out to be, and is more about her saying she's not okay sacrificing people just for better ends, because she can also seek an even better better end where she doesn't have to but can still get the benefits. Of course, that can still in theory be anti-utilitarian, but isn't necessarily per say. After the nonsense in record breaker with miyako this portends an ill omen though.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@askme
why are you trying to defend this shit
I'm not, I'm making fun of you for being a beta dickless loser
one aspect of smt that made it so special
oh please fuck off. smt is 'special' for a lot of reasons, but not that. we've had scantily clad demon women since the beginning of the series.
we have persona for a reason
yeah, to be a cash rake, while smt gets to enjoy being the actually quality series

@askme
virgins are the ones who like it
that's like saying there's only one type of virgin archetype. virgins, especially the autistic ones also commonly employ a 'no gurlz allowed' mindset when it comes to the media they consume. that's why you see /v/ blow up over shit like aloy

IVAs was just low quality
agreed. but in and of itself it's hardly a series killer

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@CodeBuns
c'mon nigga

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Sharpcharm
master1200

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@JunkTop
Never change resolution-kun.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@massdebater
kek
@likme
its not comparable, smt5 heroine is suppose to live in our world, how many girls do you see in our wolrd with skirts THAT short?
and do you honestly believe that hirokos designs only purpose is to sell more copies?
@Ignoramus
its fine because shes wearing shorts
@w8t4u
i cant prove him wrong, so ill just troll him instead xD
@Supergrass
smt is 'special' for a lot of reasons, but not that
I disagree. I think one of the things that set SMT apart is that it didn't conform to pandering and it did a good job of setting itself apart from other JRPGs for that reason.
we've had scantily clad demon women since the beginning of the series.
There is nothing wrong with having a sexy character as long as it has a purpose. The provocative demons have an actual reason for why they dress the way they do.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Supergrass
yeah, to be a cash rake
You realize only reason why the girl is in SMT5 is to get more sales, right?

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Sharpcharm
that's implying the core of law is utilitarianism, which it isn't. law is meant to represent peace and order, with utilitarianism as a way to make it seem extreme or radical. everybody wants peace and order, but nobody except the extremists wants to commit genocide or take away free will. same thing with chaos and meritocracy. the utilitarian aspects of law are what make people shy away from it in the first place.

law+ honestly seems to be what law should be about, creating a peaceful and orderly society without the need for mass brainwashing or whatever. same shit with amane's ending in desu OC. The problem with you autists is you establish a rigid framework for what your alignment should be when the games give you a very good idea of it

farquit
farquit

@Sharpcharm
Well, Law in the first place wasn't perfectly compatible with utilitarianism in the first place. Utilitarianism suggests that it is OK to break the law so long as you cause more overall happiness than if you were to follow the Law. Which is completely incompatible with Law, which states that morality is absolute and laws must be unbending. So the two are not one and the same. If Zelenin does reject utilitarian principles, that would be in accordance with Law.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Sharpcharm
the new "good" law ending in SJ, zelenin basically is shown directly swearing off utilitarianism as "too extreme."
Yeah, the criticism against old chaos actually makes sense while the one against old law is just muh feelings of the people getting sacrificed for the greater good.

Maybe its not as direct as they make it out to be, and is more about her saying she's not okay sacrificing people just for better ends, because she can also seek an even better better end where she doesn't have to but can still get the benefits.
From the scene before the old/new split they just appeal to feelings and don't really say how they can achieve a better world without sacrifices. Don't know what the ending itself is yet though. Don't want to spoil myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATtbt8bBmW0

I love the track when Alex shows up by the way. It sounds like some corny villain track to me. Reminds me a bit of

massdebater
massdebater

@w8t4u
set SMT apart is that it didn't conform to pandering
yeah i remember the pandering of all those old RPGs like final fantasy or dragon quest
sexy character as long as it has a purpose
lmao hiroko has a reason for barely wearing any armor and having a tiny bit of metal covering her crotch? the demon girls really don't have a reason either, especially not in the early games. hell, that girl having a short skirt makes sense, that's a fashionable option many teenage girls take to attract men. can't believe I have to explain this to a person over the age of 18 but that's autism for ya
@whereismyname
well no shit, bud, everything devs put in a trailer is done to attract attention or sales
the only reason
we don't even know the role she plays. this is just like when alex was announced, you virgins were crying because a cute girl was added and didn't know she'd actually end up being a pretty good character

eGremlin
eGremlin

@TurtleCat
just muh feelings of the people getting sacrificed for the greater good.

lawfags

Evilember
Evilember

@massdebater
yeah i remember the pandering of all those old RPGs like final fantasy or dragon quest
But those games had a lot of pandering. Do you think pandering ONLY means sexy girls?
hell, that girl having a short skirt makes sense, that's a fashionable option many teenage girls take to attract men.
If you saw a girl walking around with shorts like that in public she would be shamed and called a slut.
the demon girls really don't have a reason either
okay, you're 100% trolling at this point

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

people still taking the bait

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Evilember
Do the woman that live around you wear burkas or something?

TreeEater
TreeEater

@Bidwell
but nobody except the extremists wants to commit genocide or take away free will
If the way Law does it really is the only way to achieve happiness, it's morally right for utilitarians and you need to do it. No choice but to be an "extremist" if it's still less death and suffering than the other endings.

@farquit
Which is completely incompatible with Law, which states that morality is absolute and laws must be unbending
If Law wasn't utilitarian, it'd mean that genocide as an act itself is okay. Law always was about doing some shady actions to achieve the greater good. That includes breaking the Law that's supposed to reign in the end.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@farquit
You're completely wrong. Play II. The realization zayin makes is that its not the laws that exist that matter. Its the perfect system. And if the existing system is wrong, you have to shift it to the perfect system. Irl utilitarianism doesn't correspond to tons of laws because in real situations it ends badly. But utilitarianism is big on thought experiments about hypothetical situations where utility is priveleged over all else.

This is based on those more abstract thought experiments. "law" here means "order" and order means guaranteeing something and what is being guaranteed is an ideal outcome via utilitarian logic. This is also why you get odd dialogue like ancient of days, and certain lines of merkabah. IV has an undercurrent of law seeing law as about making the universe exist in an ideal state. All of this is big utilitarian thought experiments once you delve into it. Why do you think miyako, the most explicit in series utilitarian is seen as controlling? Because the basis of utilitarisnism is that you do not inherently respect people's own wills or right to make non-ideal choices. You only pragmatically do. So in fantasy situations it can overlap with needing to control them for better ends. Law isn't just law. The laws exist for a goal. One that if it doesn't exist, you get dark law instead.

This didn't start with megaten either. Characters like spock are utilitarian and are shown as leaning more towards rules for thematic purposes.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@w8t4u
user SMT5 heroine is fucking barely shown doing anything other then annoying MC. Not to fucking mention your complaints about DSJ being waifubait is fucking dumb. You dont even see yourself waifuing up lucifer as that happens off cam and is just implied at best.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Evilember
But those games had a lot of pandering. Do you think pandering ONLY means sexy girls?

Only giving (You) this (You) to ask: where do you see the pandering in old-school Final Fantasy? Like, pre-IV I mean.

Dragon Quest, I can kind of understand at least.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@BunnyJinx
1-3 were on the nes right? Hard to do fan service on NES games me thinks.

I think you are letting the overly sappy and friendship route of SMTIVA cloud your mind with DSJ and SMTV relax user.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Bidwell
Core is an odd word, because obviously yes, in iva they call them peace and anarchy. But the standard "point" of them thus far is a sliding scale between guaranteed better ends overall even if individual self determination is overridden, versus encouragement to self determine and a dynamic world that encourages it, but no guaranteed happiness at all. Its not that utilitarianism is on paper the core, but rather that what they are inherently makes it more or less identical to that. Peace isn't a first order moral concept, but a description of an ideal way to put it into practice.

If utilitarianism wasn't a big part of it, a random genocide wouldn't be crammed into every game. The point is to show that they think its for the greater good. If this wasn't meant to have an absolute basis, then they could more often just focus on whether the law world is too controlling in general. Isabeau even calls law a "monistic extreme." Which is a statement that it focuses on maximization of a single value at all costs.

Sure, you can like law-esque endings without being utilitarian of course. However, what the issue is is that this is why people are likely to take law endings if they do in other games in general much of the time. But if the new "better" one is explicitly non-utilitarian it comes off like its not clear who its for, since while there are people who lean in directions but don't like the extremes, it is alienating the same people who normally take law endings slightly. In a case where it just happens to be non utilitarian that's one thing, but if it is explicitly showing her swearing it off, its more direct connotations.

This comes off a bit like iva, in that it turns real law and chaos into bad endings, but now the options are all more or less subsumed more within neutral. Overclocked wasn't anti utilitarian, but it managed to be more moderate. Something like that would be less dubious.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAmgwGa8JTc

I think this is the best NEW SMTIVA track. Fact.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Evilember
only because you're a shit, sexist Veeky Forums person who lives in a place influenced by the patriarchy and supports slut-shaming.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@TalkBomber
I can't recall any of the new tracks besides Divine Powers battle, Vishnu and YHVH/Stephen.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@TurtleCat
Yeah, the criticism against old chaos actually makes sense while the one against old law is just muh feelings of the people getting sacrificed for the greater good.

This is basically the core issue. Chaos is based on social darwinism. In other words, chaos is based on things that are universally understood to be openly ridiculous. The entire drive of mainline is to compare something openly ridiculous to more utilitarian logic in order to make the latter look bad. Chaos was never a real option. It was a foil to compare to law to make utilitarianism look extreme, and to justify presenting it as even handed because it says both have points. But then it cuts to the chase an calls neutral better. Even though actual utilitarianism isn't really that extreme in normal situations, and the entire setup is to avoid having to compare normal utilitarianism to standard neutral ethics in a fair light.

To add to that, they often go the distance by depicting chaos as a little better than law, just to make sure utilitarian logic seems extra bad. And they even take benefits that irl would make more sense to associate with law, and crowbar them to chaos. I.E. chaos claims to be anti-demonization and anti-authority even though people who have those kinds of ideologies in real life often like both of those things. How is thinking the weak are so inferior they need to be gotten rid of not a case of demonization? That is the basis behind why nationalist groups hate gays. Thinking they are weakening the nation.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@TreeEater
Yeah. People who think law is just about following laws must have not actually played any of the games. Even in SMTI law is introduced as the conspiracy, and like it is a group subtly maneuvering to get shit outside of normal legal means. Then in II zayin subverts that all the time. These aren't like late-series deconstructions either. They are literally the establishing games.

To be fair though, being okay with genocide doesn't de-facto make you utilitarian. There are things called threshold deontologists who say that principles are right most of the time, but in situations where the consequences overide them, you should go against them. And the difference between a world of eternal peace versus non is sufficiently large to qualify. that's what makes law so compelling. It is utilitarian, but it is not -only- good by utilitarian logic. If you are some kind of a virtue ethicist you have to consider that its world fosters more virtue too.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@BunnyJinx
Are you telling me you didn't jerk it to kary, user? She's just wearing a bra.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@BunnyJinx
he didn't cum the first time he beat warmech

Firespawn
Firespawn

@TreeEater
Yes, I get that it's 'morally right' for utilitarianists, but it's an unrealistic and overblown way to make people who aren't so gung ho to hesitate. I guarantee that if law in 4 didn't end up with killing all of tokyo or 2 with meggido ark people would be more lenient on law. I'm not saying utilitarianism isn't an aspect of law, i'm saying it's treated very negatively to make player choice harder from a moral standpoint.

@Evil_kitten
Fair enough, I suppose. Still, the overarching theme of law is peace. My point though is that the game takes said utilitarianism and makes the player take an intentionally difficult personally moral choice to create a law world. While that's in line with the principles of utilitarianism itself (giving oneself up to better the whole) it's extremely offputting. Hence why amane's ending is so loved.

I understand your concern with neutral subsuming law and turning away from utilitarianism but at the end of the day the utilitarian and the guy who likes peace without some great sacrifice will both be satisfied with zelenin's new world. And even still people will have to give up some freedoms, but it's less of outright brainwashing and more peaceful eternal worship.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Illusionz
There are things called threshold deontologists who say that principles are right most of the time, but in situations where the consequences overide them, you should go against them.
Interesting. I only was aware of classic deontologists, so I didn't know that.

FastChef
FastChef

@Evilember
pandering ONLY means sexy girls
Well what the fuck are you thinking of retard? Older ff and dq games, all the way up through 6 had virtually no virginbait.
slut
Holy shit get the fuck out of your basement. This is the most autistic thing I've read all day
100% trolling
As a wise man once said, not an argument, sudoku yourself retard

@Soft_member
one scene in the trailer
i know everything about her!
Well damn nostradamus, what else do you have for us?
you're fucking stupid
Nigga the amount of virgins in here crying about alex was immense. It spread to fucking /v/. You guys just can't handle women, 2d or 3d

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@FastChef
Nigga the amount of virgins in here crying about alex was immense

This was fucking before we knew her purpose. It was after IVA so don't blame us
Game comes out
she is not Asahi/Marie 2.0
no one cares any more

get fucked

JunkTop
JunkTop

There are actual reasons and lore as to why the characters are designed the way they are. You are either being intellectually dishonest, or you are a horrible troll.
Ishtar
"Goddess of war and love, revered in ancient Mesopotamia. She seduced many men to their doom, but the hero Gilgamesh spurned her, causing her to murder his best friend Enkidu."

Diana
"A mother goddess in Roman lore, she is the goddess of hunting and the equivalent of Greece's Artemis.
Diana is often pictured with a deer at her side and is also known as the goddess of fertility. She is an eternal virgin and has her followers take a vow of virginity

Lilim
"A demon in female form from Judeo-Christian lore. Said to tempt sleeping men and attack infants. Daughters of the demoness Lilith who tempted Adam; like their mother, they drain men of their essence."

Not to mention the game has a literal succubus.

@w8t4u
You are teling me that if you saw pic related in public that you would think its socially aceptable?

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Stupidasole
There's also pluralistic deontologists for a third kind. Classical deontologists thought that all rules stemmed from a single principle that was hard and rigid. Pluralistic deontologists believe that there are different principles that exist independently, and may even be in conflict. It doesn't mean that there's no right answer, but that a right answer may have to include biting the bullet against a lesser evil, since more right according to one principle would seem to violate another if not for the big picture. Its associated with ross' prima facie duties.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Spazyfool
it was after iva so don't blame us
I can blame for you being quick-to-judge retards
no one cares anymore
no one cares because she's not waifubait
This is a bad thing now, huh?

Also im fucking stupid @Soft_member
didn't realize you were replying to that other guy

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Harmless_Venom
Why would it be a bad thing if she is not waifu bait I am confused?

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Firespawn
My point is that if it associates the old law ending with utilitarianism, which is now retconned into a bad ending and the new good law ending with not being so, then while a utilitarian would like the new ending overall if it were the only option, and much better than neutral, the fact that the good ending now pits them potentially against utilitarianism itself adds some tension there. If the three wisemen for example are the ones depicted as the outright utilitarians, then the final boss of law+ is against something they claim to profess. Which is much more dubious than for example, II where the corrupt law figure was corrupt because they -weren't- utilitarian, but were some kind of divine command - justification by faith egoist who thinks the world of order should be used to maximize asskissing. Which is something that they are more likely to be fine being against. (unless of course they were christians who expected to be able to side with god). I don't know for sure that it does this, but some are saying so.

That being said, admitting that there are more moderate ways that the ideas can be taken is good all the same. People need to not think that literally all angels / demons have the exact same ideology, to the exact same level of extremeness.

Evilember
Evilember

@JunkTop
I don't know what's worse - you quoting the in-game logs to try and defend why goddesses of love and sex are sexualized (when you have shit like sedna, nekomata, or asherah) or the fact that you think that what that woman is wearing is somehow 'socially unacceptable'

I'm not even joking, man, please go get your dick wet. Being this much of a prude generally does hurt your lifestyle

TechHater
TechHater

@Evilember
If you allow your daughter to dress like this you are an awfull father desu.

WebTool
WebTool

Playing DDS2 right now, loving it but am stuck on fighting Heat on hardmode. How much further until the final boss and how hard is he? This boss is breaking my balls.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

When is the live action Devil Summoner gonna be subbed?

SniperWish
SniperWish

@TechHater
@JunkTop
There's nothing wrong with dressing like that tbqh, also i really feel like you're underage

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@WebTool
He's weak to lightning.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Check out the new SMT heroine !
Do not worry though! There is no hidden motives behind her design! We definitely do not care about sales or virgins at all!
We at Atlus understand that people have the expression to dress as they desire, so if a girl wants to dress like a slut then we will include them into our game to be more representative!

You can rest assured that she has lots of personality and will contribute a lot to the story!

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@WebTool
There are a few hard bosses by the end, but its not intolerable.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Evilember
Being this much of a prude generally does hurt your lifestyle
explain how it hurts your lifestyle

likme
likme

i want to play if

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Gigastrength
Tits are to big/10 will not buy

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Post the picture, you know the one.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Gigastrength
imagine being this fucking mad

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@SniperWish
user those are way to short. Would you honestly allow your daughter to dress like a tramp? I love seeing tramps and all, but lets not mince words here. No where were I live do I see a bunch of women dressed like that. No girl dresses like that in college either.

virgin and underage insult
kys

@Gigastrength
user please the new heroine skirt is not even that small. Lets wait until we see hoher to see if she is Asahi 2.0 waifubait.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@likme
Learn Japanese

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@BunnyJinx
3

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

I present to you...........
The new main character of SMT 6 !

We figured, hey, some people just like to go out in public in their underwear.
Everything is socially acceptable now, right?

There is definitely no ulterior motive behind this.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@PurpleCharger
being THIS autistic

This is my last (you) (you) and any other user will get.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@DeathDog
This one?

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Lord_Tryzalot
new heroine skirt is not even that small.
NIGGER Have you even been out in public?
Why the fuck did I even ask that? of course you haven't, you sit all day in your moms basement watching anime all day. You get to see all the cute girly panty shots all the time, and thats why you think mini skirts are acceptable

imagine having your reality be this warped.
holy fuck

Illusionz
Illusionz

@PurpleCharger
Real talk, are you a muslim or some shit? SMT V's heroine isn't even that bad, stop trying so hard

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@PurpleCharger
I mean, demifiend was a mc and he didn't have a shirt on for an entire game.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@PurpleCharger
I fucking hate that bitch. She's so useless and completely ruins the show by her existence alone. Please never post her again. Thanks.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Burnblaze
would anyone happen to have any recommendations for ways to learn japanese because I don't think smt if will ever be translated

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Crazy_Nice
in my SAME post I told the user who posted the irl skirt saying its to small and saying why

every single thread there is a shitpost gone to far.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Illusionz
I live in united states.
you would be caught dead wearing smt 5 heroine skirt here

but i dont live in anime land, so maybe everything is okay over there?

Booteefool
Booteefool

@cum2soon
Go to /int/'s DJT and read the guide.

Inmate
Inmate

This is the protagonist of SMT7. Tell me its too revealing, I DARE you.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Nude_Bikergirl
We have had girls in short skirts in SMT games before holy fuck dude its not real life fuck off.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Inmate
you become a full fiend in smt 7
hope it has dante

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Inmate
This is a messian image board, do not post images like that again

Firespawn
Firespawn

This is SMT 6's heroine concept art. Aproved by the world's moral compass, user!

massdebater
massdebater

@CouchChiller
Chaos was never a real option. It was a foil to compare to law to make utilitarianism look extreme
It's exactly this that makes me think it was never meant to be based on the ethical utilitarianism after all, I mean, Chaos is extreme darwinism, why am I to believe the other one is based on ethical philosophy when the simple choice is both were meant to be extreme? I take it to be how Japanese would interpret an ideology given it is had by YHVH or Lucifer. Maybe they explain it further in an interview

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@TurtleCat
goddess of agriculture and earthly fertility, whose main myth involves grieving for her lost daughter
made into a loli

what did Doi mean by this?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Firespawn
eyes wide open
slut

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Firespawn
That's cultural appropriation shitlord

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Nude_Bikergirl
It wasn't Doi, she was written like that and he had to desing her accordingly, it was said in an interview

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Nude_Bikergirl
His message is: eburishingu isu betta as a rori

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Nude_Bikergirl
Doi draw us a fucking little girl
Okay jesus please don't kill me I'm just trying to draw demons over here

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Nude_Bikergirl
Despite his great power and prestige, the Dagda is sometimes depicted as oafish and crude, even comical, wearing a short, rough tunic that barely covers his rump, dragging his great penis on the ground
What does Doi mean by this?

Flameblow
Flameblow

@massdebater
You're operating under the assumption that the people doing this think utilitarianism is a viable philosophy. Remember: these people are japanese. Utilitarianism is VERY non-asian, and totally contrary to asian modes of thinking. Asians take as an axiom that you are interrelated with your ingroup like family and shit, and that ethical systems have to take this into account. Utilitarianism very notably isn't that. The only relevant "group" if any is the collection of every possible person you can influence. To asians it seems subversive of the important family unit. Asians also focus on inner virtues, and moving in tune with the world in a direct way. Utilitarianism involves long term thinking, external views, abstract thinking, etc. It seems very rigid, calculating and "logical" to them. Asians dislike things that are too logical, focusing instead on personal experience and intuition. Things that are notably about resolving problems in the immediate sense, not planning for some indefinitely long future. The entire idea of mathematical utilitarian calculus and reducing ethics to math is totally alien to asian thinking.

They do mention in an interview that law is western themed and chaos is eastern themed, and in many ways they are extremes of certain western / eastern modes of thinking. The main thing that doesn't make that direct is that asians focus in the ingroup, but more on a group level. So they threw some lucifer into the mix to give context to more individualist chaos. The thing is that utilitarianism -is- the extreme of prioritizing utility. That doesn't make it the same as "extremists" in real situations, but it is an extreme.

In MTII, the "law" ending clearly wasn't utilitarianism at the time. Once we get to mainline it may not have been intended to be intentional in SMTI, but as the games went on it became more obvious that it was meant to be. By II it definitely implicitly is. Either way they realized it was, and ran with it past then.

Soft_member
Soft_member

what if yhvh was a nigger

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Soft_member
/b/
/pol/catalog#s=%2C but you don't even seem to be making a political statement as acting like a dumbass.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Soft_member
what if *record scratch* was a less than 56% white amerimutt mongrel

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@CodeBuns
found the Lawfaggot

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Would you like a Megaten game that takes place in the 19th century?

takes2long
takes2long

@AwesomeTucker
I expected the second line to be "until this faggot showed up." and got severely disappointed.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@AwesomeTucker
Yes, holy shit would i, modern settings are good and all but it's always interesting to see how stuff would be in older times

likme
likme

@Flameblow
Actually, my assumption is they didn't or barely considered utilitarianism at all. If they didn't actually read a textbook on utilitarianism, nowhere is it mentioned (until maybe a single dialog on a new game) that this is what they are doing, there is a bunch of complicating shit like it being chiefed by yhvh and angels who are generally unrelated then how can we claim it to be a representation or mis-representation of utilitarianism at all, rather than its own Jap thing?

iluvmen
iluvmen

I am hungry.

Hungry for more activity.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

one sentence sends me on a 30 minute long google marathon
still wind up with no answer
So after Naomi beats Tiamat, she calls Naomi アメールの末 (descendant of "Ameeru"). I'm trying to figure out what Ameeru is referring to, in general it's obviously something related to the first humans, but I mean specifically. The English translation gets rid of the mention entirely and just goes with straight up "Man" instead. Japanese message boards seem to be confused as to what it is as well, and I can't find anything in the Sumerian creation of man myth that matches up with that pronunciation. The first man created in the Sumerian myth is Adapa so it doesn't fit that. I wonder if the writers made a mistake.

likme
likme

@Inmate
SMT3: You become a partial fiend
SMT7: You become a complete feind

I see no problems here :^)

Inmate
Inmate

@Supergrass
TRIGGERED

farquit
farquit

@Garbage Can Lid
The final form of *record scratch*

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

Do I need to have played Desu1 to play Desu2? I think I got halfway through the first one but never got around to finishing it

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@haveahappyday

They have nothing to do with each other apart from a Black Frost making a reference.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@DeathDog
Ok, fuck this abrahamic shit. I see your argument, but i still think that the abrahamic is in too much games already. Time to go to some other shit.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Carnalpleasure
Yeah, it's possible that it is just a mispelling. This would certainly not be the first time Atlus made a spelling mistake in regards to mythological figures, so something like that seems likely.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Carnalpleasure
Only did a quick search (notgoogle) but maybe it's referring to the plant from the 11th tablet
その草の名は、『シーブ・イッサヒル・アメール(老いたる人が若返る、の意)
http://www.aurora.dti.ne.jp/~eggs/gil11.htm

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@AwesomeTucker
go back to /pg/

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

I aspire to someday work under Doi. Here is my interpretation of one of his portrait redesigns.
Please critique my work.

King_Martha
King_Martha

Should I play the Raidou Kuzunoha games? Or try to get through DDS1/2 again? (Played various amounts of the way through the first one many times but never quite beat it or continued to the second.)

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

This thread proves that women were a mistake

massdebater
massdebater

@Poker_Star
led to the fall of mankind

Jee you think?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@StonedTime
It wouldn't make much sense to call someone a descendant of a plant though.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

just reached tokyo disney land in SMT 1, i was neutral and chose to help lord yama in ikebukuro so i'm now chaos aligned.
what should I do if I want to get the neutral ending?
also, i got a cat of nine tails and present from hades as drops. i assume they are weapons but i can't equip them and they fetch a lot of money for selling. worth keeping?

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@AwesomeTucker
Play the mini-game at TDL and heal at the Messian's.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@w8t4u
The provocative demons have an actual reason for why they dress the way they do.
the reason being, they are based on fapbait by ancient waifufags who came up with them and worshiped them the same way modern waifufags worship their animu waifus as goddesses, and overtime had them converted into religions.

Evilember
Evilember

@Lord_Tryzalot
Fucking ancient waifufags. How we can purge them, bro?

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Lord_Tryzalot
soon we'll make our waifus real, with the power of observation

but seriously the problems with 4A fanservice stem from the cast all being complete retards with barely any connection to the plot and who obstinately oppose changing the world in any way
it's like a group of the most pussy-whipped neutralfags someone could come up with
if they actually held worthwhile convictions and didn't totally abandon their organizations and beliefs for muh friendship the game would've been fine regardless of their designs or how badly they want the protag's cock

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@likme

A few reasons. Lets start front the front and work back. In triangulum, miyako is an explicitly utilitarian character. She openly refers to western utilitarian thought experiments. What's more, she is also clearly meant to be an alt law analogue. In contrast with yamato, your team notes that she is very controlling. The theme of triangulum is neutral. All the endings are presented as different neutral endings. And you ultimately talk her out of utilitarianism. So from that alone we know that atlus thinks utilitarianism is crazy, extreme, and law leaning.

Contrast her with ronaldo, who is desuIIs first law analogue. Ronaldo has similar goals to law, but is explicitly non-utilitarian. His path has an anti pragmatist slant. So we can start to see that they each represent a part of what in mainline is the same thing. In mainline law's goals are an intersection of utilitarianism, with an outcome that looks generally egalitarian socialistic. (note that miyako doesn't do the socialism thing). If neither of these things resembled mainline maybe it could be a coincidence, but the thing is that they DO resemble mainline. this game alone reveals that atlus considers those to be two of the aspects of law.

Since mainline law looks so obviously like this, we know that at some point they decided explicitly that law was an intersection of those things. And chances are this was early on. In most games since II (arguably I) they throw in a random genocide to ask whether its okay for the greater good. Law says yes. Neutral is more deontological and says no. They didn't -need- to do this. They could have just focused on the brainwashing. They did this to explicitly throw in the utilitarian slant.

cont...

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@PackManBrainlure
The drum beat goes like THIS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKMRad3df4A

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Fried_Sushi
Now lets look at interviews. They explicitly say in an interview describing I that law is western themed. Sure, they could just mean christianity, but there's obviously more going on than that. From that we already get the idea that they think law's ethics are something unique to the west. Something non-eastern. Utilitarianism is the most "non eastern" ethics there are. What's more, japan learned about utilitarianism and socialism and equal rights all from western missionaries. Since they were the ones travelling there to teach them about the west the most. So there is intuitive reason the japanese would lump all this together as the collective "west."

Now lets look at what the sides even are. The ultimate scale of them is a sliding scale between guaranteed good outcome versus more on paper ability to do self determination. Former being law and latter chaos. The endings are about what you value, not just tangible systems. From that alone we get the idea that it already looks like utilitarianism. What is this guaranteed good outcome? The writers studied a lot of shit to write these games. They would have known what utilitarianism was. As everyone notes, the games treat ethics as more relevant than politics. Which means that the endings have to be understood in an ethical light. Once you realize that the endings are meant to work as advertised, you realize that you have to view it in light of what its trying to deliver on. And that is an absolute prioritization of good outcomes over individual determination.

From there, the rest starts to fall into place pretty obviously. And you begin to see more of the games in light of these elements. the brand of death is openly utilitarian thinking. Its about knowing who you need to kill for the greater good. It even highlights utilitarian two level thinking, about how you can -only act on it if you really know.-

cont...

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@TechHater
@Lord_Tryzalot
father
in western society? they get rid of fathers through courts, no fault divorces and feminism to make sure there's nobody to temper the woman and draw her away from her natural instincts which direct her towards pic related @JunkTop
.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Stark_Naked
brining politics into a video game board

/pol/
Not that I do not agree with you but take your autism out of here

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

Isn't it hypocritical of Jimenez to want to protect Bugaboo (a far weaker creature) when he is Chaos-aligned?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@happy_sad
You have to know the consequences for it to be justified. The angel says it would be a grave sin to kill if you don't. In iv, ancient of days says the dispensation of the universe is collective. This is near identically worded to the utilitarian concept of the point of view of the universe. What it means is that ethics can't be seen in an individual light. They can only be understood in light of the big picture. Its pretty straightforward buzzwords that if you read utilitarians you will hear all the time.

To add to this, there is a term for having enough information in utilitarianism to act on ways that would normally be seen as dubious. They refer to archetypes called archangels and proles. So utilitarianism itself uses christian terminology to depict individuals that know enough to decide what needs to be exterminated. Is it a coincidence that the utilitarian archangels are represented in game by archangels?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-level_utilitarianism

Since even lucifer agrees that law plans work as advertised, it would be bizarre to try to interpret law worlds not as about happiness. Even though many games stress that they are happy places. In SJs original ending it more or less said that negative emotions effectively ceased to exist, in place of joy. So we know everyone there is happy.

You can even compare the depiction of law to other similar characters. Mister spock is cold and logical, but also tends to follow rules, and is an explicit utilitarian. So the things that are associated together for law have already showed up associated that way in fiction. And take kyubey from madoka. He ALSO shares a billion similarities with law, and lo and behold the show is made by someone who hates utilitarianism and wants to depict it as alien. After awhile you get an intuition for this.

Maybe it wasn't their original intent, but it definitely became a core staple of it pretty fast.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Firespawn
politics
are you a retard? these are social problems that cause the pictures happen in real life all over the world, contradicting the "girls don't dress that way, nuh uh" prudish fallacy, not politics. you may want to stop visiting pol or its leftist counterparts yourself since you seem to see politics in every little thing that doesn't adhere to your worldviews.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@TurtleCat
Why are you retards still talking about this?

FastChef
FastChef

@Spazyfool
Not going to argue alignments, but I assume it's like a 'selfish' desire.

Chaos I guess includes doing things out of self-interest, like protecting a friend or a girl, whatever. I guess it could even include protecting the weak, it's weird.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@TurtleCat
in western society? they get rid of fathers through courts, no fault divorces and feminism

Sounds like politcs to me user. And I said I agreed with you, but it has no place here, there is a whole board to talk about that, go there and talk about it over there you fucking autist.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@iluvmen
I just finished studying for a massive test so ill read your posts tomorrow, I would want you to feel bad posting so much about law and not even get a single (you).

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Spamalot
good luck on the test

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@FastChef
@Spazyfool
I heard this point was brought up in Chaos+ not sure though. Since Alex says that in OG chaos she is the only human.

@Illusionz
Thanks user.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Supergrass
politics
politics is when speaking about laws such as the constitution, government, political parties, elections or international affairs. not social issues caused by retarded citizens. you're buying into a dumb idea that everything needs to be associated with politics, so that it can be then shut down with a "gb2pol" when things stop going in someone's favor.

i'm sure they'll appreciate me trying to talk about megaten. in case you didn't read the post chain, it was a response to an autist sperging over "why is this megaten's skirt so short, it's unrealistic" proving that it's in fact realistic and why is it realistic, not "oh my god our country is fucked, we need to do something".

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@iluvmen
I feel like there's some contradiction in there somewhere. You mentioned Miyako, but to her, the equation was as simple as "more people saved = better". She also comes from a world with no YHVH. Meanwhile, YHVH advocates a good deal of murder when it concerns as much as opposing his idealized idea of humanity. Could you really consider something that's so heavily driven by an ideology that isn't utilitarianism, utilitarian?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@FastChef
Yeah, that's basically it. Chaos is smart enough to realize that caring about people close to you is in a way part of selfishness. Its not about telling even close friends to fuck off in favor of being alone. But people close to you includes people who may currently be weak. I mean, chaos people clearly have kids, and their kids are clearly not born strong. Its not like chaos is stupid enough to die out in one generation because they decide babies deserve death for being weak. If you have an attachment to someone you can protect them.

I mean, take infernal tokyo for example. One demonoid says she feels sorry for akira's neurishers since he is poor and so can't afford very many, and so they probably get overworked. Neurishers are obviously the weak there. So they are obviously on some level capable of caring about them to some extent. As an extension of a group with the stronger. They know not everyone will be strong. The strong are followed by many who are weaker. And their hierarchies and interactions scale accordingly. Neurishers are treated like servants / slaves / whatever, but its not like no one cares about people just because they think those people are hierarchically lower in ways. They may even want to encourage them to get better.

likme
likme

@Nude_Bikergirl
judicatory branch and the courts
not part of government and therefor politics

/pol/

Supergrass
Supergrass

@likme
being this dense to mistake an explanation reply for continued discussion with intent focused on that, and pulling a strawman to shut down the conversation

were you born a retard or did your parents drop you too many times?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Supergrass
@Nude_Bikergirl
@likme
@Supergrass
ladies please there's plenty of me to go around

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Supergrass
The conversation was started by and for the sole purpose of a shitposting user who wanted more (you)s, be glad it got shut down autism-kun

Lunatick
Lunatick

You know what would make this thread better?
A stream.

idontknow
idontknow

@Stupidasole
You're proving my point. So yhvh often shows up as non utilitarian. You're not wrong. But he isn't the same in every game. Lets look over a few games.

In SMTII: he thinks the ideal world is one where all people serve him. Law axes him for the sake of the people. Him not being utilitarian doesn't reflect on the law end.

Nocturne: if we assume he is in control of the system, his only goal seems to be maintaining it. The law analogue isn't preferred by him, merely an option.

Desu overclocked: this yhvh is a lot nicer and DOES come off utilitarian. Take the old testament stories. amane tells you that god by choosing someone to make an example of can lead to the good of many. So note here that in desu, he is depicted as working via utilitarian logic. Notably, in desu, unlike in II he is presented as a true law figure, not a corrupt one even law hates.

IVA: he explicitly doesn't give a shit about law's goals of peace. Only being venerated. Note here that aniel says all merkabah wants is a world of peace. Yhvh says nothing about this, only that its good to venerate him, and follow him. Krishna says yhvh never wanted a world of peace, and actively worked against it becoming a reality.

So note the issue here. The times yhvh is corrupt and not in tune with law endings, he is not utilitarian. in desu where he is not, he IS utiltiarian. His potential disconnect from regular law is a big staple of the series. Sides aren't all monolithic. Confusing that him and the angels must always have the same goals is a mistake. The games made sure to let you know there is a disconnect in II, literally the second mainline. Look at it this way. Law is big on paternalism (so are utilitarians). The idea that they need to restrict people sometimes for their own good. A non-corrupt yhvh represents this paternalism. A corrupt one morphs it from restrictions for the good of humans into divine command theory, and thinking that following him is independently good. And so a disconnect

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Lunatick
I'll stream Debisama again one day

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

Typical OPfag here, will probably miss next OP seeing as it is only around 80ish posts away from a new one just a reminder to add
@SniperGod
@Playboyize
To the OP. Thank you.

Good night /smtg/, don't let any demons possess your body while you sleep.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Raving_Cute
It fits directly between I and II
Wrong.
NINE is set in the middle of SMT1, namely after nukes hit but before Adam returns from Kongokai.
The one that's actually between SMT1 and SMT2 is IMAGINE.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Sir_Gallonhead
reminder

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Soft_member
The only one you generally should be developing any attachment for is Spooky, for a good reason.
But yeah, other than Hitomi, everyone else is pretty much just trash. Doesn't help that literally all of them become traitors at one point because of a BLATANT falseflag and Spooky, you and Hitomi are the only ones left standing.
Fuck the three stooges, I unironically wish I could kill them and ride off into the sunset with Hitomi and Spooky.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@askme
Watch that demon be called "Devil".

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@PurpleCharger
@ZeroReborn
Did you at least read the novels before playing this one? Since this is a DIRECT sequel to the first two novels of the original MT trilogy. Third one isn't translated, but the first two are which makes it perfect for reading before MT1.
Shame the third one will probably never be translated.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Crazy_Nice
No but I'm only halfway through since I'm about to fight Loki. Are the novels at least good? Have you read them?

TechHater
TechHater

@Burnblaze
Doi didn't make any of the new DSJ portraits redraws user. His only portrait in the entire game is Alex.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Emberburn
They're very pulp-y and yes I read them.
If you like MegaTen, you'll enjoy them, if you don't, you might find them to be cheap and grotesque in terms of plot.
If I had to compare them to something it would be a slasher flick combined with Carpenter's The Thing and Japanese mythos.
The only reason to read the novels is for playing MT1 because they give you the entire background behind the plot.
No reason to read them otherwise unless you know Japanese since the third novel is NEVER EVER translation status so you'd effectively be cucking yourself out of an ending if you weren't playing MT1.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Sharpcharm
Law is all about peace and order through God. Why would removing utilitarianism be a bad thing? Seems to me this DSJ Law+ is Light-Law while the normal one is Dark-Law.

Firespawn
Firespawn

Why does every post in these generals have to be a long paragraph?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@Firespawn
/smtg/ is the thinking man's general. Writing in paragraphs is a requirement.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Ignoramus
I eschew your thinking in favour of nothing.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Stop giving attention to prude faggots who are clearly unaware of how life works.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@whereismyname
you are wrong

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@happy_sad
Oh yeah? Well fuck YOU!

takes2long
takes2long

@idontknow
Some Kagutaichi is his Japanese Incarnation it’s made very he detests Freedom.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@idontknow
Also note that the artbook states YHVH was born from the concept of Worship. YHVH does not seek Peace because it means people don’t have to worship him in IVA.

Raidou 2 he created the Apollyon/King Abaddon System and seeks to enforce SMTI-II timeline.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@takes2long
user are you okay? You appear to have forgotten some words.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Burnblaze
One Demonoid despite eating his emotionally tapped and basically brain dead Neurisher chooses to raise her normal human kid despite thinking its a pain the ass.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@New_Cliche
Tired and Auto correct. Need to change my new phones settings.

idontknow
idontknow

@CodeBuns
PHONEPOSTER BE GONE.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Nude_Bikergirl
She was intended like that for the story.

Also the fact she’s trying to feign being a sweet good little girl when she’s a better manipulator than Mastema.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Skullbone
What the fuck does mastema even do in dsj? I haven't heard anything about him relating to the new content.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Stupidasole
Miyakos plan was retarded by default because saving more people = better does not equal people = value. The universe itself wanted mankind wiped out for being an unworthy race that offers nothing to anything in existence and their lives have no value. Even Alcor as the Admin only doesn’t wipe them out because his friends sacrificed themselves for that world. Then the next Admin, seeing how stagnant and useless a species they are purged them.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Emberburn
The site posted in an earlier thread says he shows up for a New Law/Law+ event in The a Wailing Womb.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@hairygrape
That doesn't tell me anything. What does he do? Do you fight him? Or does he get convinced? Does he just say fuck it and leave?

whereismyname
whereismyname

@iluvmen
Kyubey and his race only cared about themselves and prolonging their existence because everyone else in the universe has emotions and are thus clinically insane.

Despite how much value humans offer to their plans to stop entropy when he meets his quota Kyubey decides to let humanity be wiped out because entropy has been prolonged.

Despite having a safer, more efficient system in place in the universe he decides the one that destroys entire planets and ends them a useful resource is obviously better solution because it lets them meet their quota faster.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Burnblaze
his portrait redesigns
Not this again. Doi didn't make those designs; they were made my a guest artist who did the art for Kamen Riders.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

tfw Liberation will never be brought to NA

just being realistic folks

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Gigastrength
/smtg/ is saved.

Skullbone
Skullbone

SUCH IS A SAMURAI SKILL!

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Skullbone
Bufu
Null Ice
Enemy Smirks

iluvmen
iluvmen

BEHOLD MY DEMONEE-HO!

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

Anyone have some nice Decarabia pics?

Methshot
Methshot

@SomethingNew

@Stupidasole
learns both Agi and Bufu in Apocalypse
The irony.

girlDog
girlDog

@Gigastrength
It's for the best. t. /fgog/ user, fuck NA fags

cum2soon
cum2soon

@girlDog
Gee /fgog/, how do you get TWO generals?

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Spazyfool
Huh. No. The human redesigns in Redux were made by "Atlus design team". They didn't give individual credits for them, but the name suggests it's internal staff.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@Ignoramus
I'm really starting to like this game

Emberfire
Emberfire

What's a right link to japanese 2ch?
Some user mentioned 5ch earlier.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Emberfire
5ch. net

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

REMINDER to whatever faggot make the OP:
Include this in the OP:
@SniperGod

@Emberfire
https://www.2chan.net/
5chan was a giant shitty meme and died like 5 years ago or something.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@PackManBrainlure
Japs don't use pictures on image boards?

It's so funny to read thread with google translation
https://rosie.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/gamerpg/1494690611/

Emberburn
Emberburn

@idontknow
Does YHVH even care about Utilitarianism? I always thought that Law meant being judged by his standards of good and evil, not human philosophy. He's just labeled as one because SMT doesn't really give him the license to commit questionable things.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Sharpcharm
5ch is the 2channel textboard today

Evilember
Evilember

@Flameblow
At least smtg is there.

I can't find anything SMT related on 2chan

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Sharpcharm
japs also freaking out about not making the next thread immediately,updating the pastebins,etc.
lel it seems they're also impotent as /smtg/ back at those dark times

Inmate
Inmate

@Sharpcharm
Nebilos "Milf or nothing"

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Inmate
Moe pig for playing crazy bachelor elderly neat.
Megaten Common thread = insane leader in recognition of quarantine

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Sharpcharm
@Evilember
dude, should've used the *Sumaho version*
it's a bit better

massdebater
massdebater

ywn drown Demeter

iluvmen
iluvmen

Do demonesses get any more lewd than Black Maria?

literally wearing nothing but a mesh and a headdress
you can see bobs and vagene or at least outlines
even rendered in 3D for Imagine

iluvmen
iluvmen

@iluvmen
I miss Imagine
If only that private server was playable

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@ZeroReborn
Nakajima
LOSARM
Who's the third one?
Sorry for sounding like a newfag.

askme
askme

@iluvmen
What's wrong with this server? I've played a bit and it seems pretty playable

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

If never

Techpill
Techpill

@askme
The Re:Imagine one?
From what I've been told it's super buggy, almost none of the NPC work, and half the skills do nothing right now

SniperWish
SniperWish

@farquit
Black Ending

WebTool
WebTool

LAW and CHOAS

happy_sad
happy_sad

@WebTool
CHOY!

Emberburn
Emberburn

@askme

Are you a turbo weeb?

TechHater
TechHater

@ZeroReborn
not siding with the witch

massdebater
massdebater

@takes2long
be next to her

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Skullbone
I doubt there's any good story reason why they had to completely eschew the character's myth to make her a loli.

5mileys
5mileys

@askme
It's pretty unstable. Sometimes you can't play more than 5 minutes straight due to disconnection.

5mileys
5mileys

@iluvmen
Please don't talk about my demonfu in that way. Thank you.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Sharpcharm
The Japs OP sucks.
English rules.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@5mileys

no slimegirls
alraune is actually half plant
goddesses claimed by everyone since antiquity
Nemissa had to steal someone's body to even do anything
I didn't see you claim her, faggot

Bidwell
Bidwell

NEW CYCLE
/vg/thread/195715082#p195715082
/vg/thread/195715082#p195715082
/vg/thread/195715082#p195715082

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Bidwell
748th post
new OP already

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Flameblow
Fool

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