Can we all agree he was the greatest strategist, head of state, general,and the...

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

Can we all agree he was the greatest strategist, head of state, general,and the most charismatic, influential and based human being ever?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@SomethingNew
Nope, manlet

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@SomethingNew
No.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@SomethingNew
greatest strategist
In short-term goals, yes. He also had an intuitive sense of naval matters and finance/commerce, but lacked the tools to fully utilize them.

head of state
Not really. Giving your siblings and in-laws kingdoms isn't really that effective.

general
I agree wholeheartedly with this. Say what you want about Napoleon, but even his biggest critics recognize his abilities as a military commander.

the most charismatic, influential and based human being ever
Ditto. Even his enemies admitted how much of a whirlwind personality he was. A whole era and series of wars was named after him; nobody else can claim that.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@SomethingNew
75% right. he was an above average head of State. Everything else is pretty spot on.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@SomethingNew
yeah, that sums it pretty well...
it has been 200 years since he was ultimately defeated at waterloo and still no one as toppled this guy in any of those aspects you've just mentioned

which says a lot about something: we are getting shittier by the day or this guy was a fucking prodigy

massdebater
massdebater

@SomethingNew
greatest strategist
lost a battle

Inmate
Inmate

@SomethingNew
No, Alexander Suvorov was better

likme
likme

@Inmate
literally who

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Inmate
Alexander as in the Alexander was better.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Inmate
Did Suvorov conquer Europe?

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@SomethingNew

You forgot the space before your question mark Pierre.

Anyway, Suvorov was better.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@PackManBrainlure
Did Napoleon?

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Emberburn
Yeah. He just lost it.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@SniperGod
yeah... all of europe... looks just like the roman empire basically... woah...

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@TurtleCat
nobody else can claim that

lots of people have had wars and 'eras' named after them nigguh

Nojokur
Nojokur

@SomethingNew

It's either him or Alexander. Shame the story ends in a tragedy.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@TurtleCat
all of europe
couldn't even take sardinia or poortugal

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@TurtleCat
Well it depends on what your parameters of Europe were. I mean he had the Caucuses to go, and Britain, but some would only consider the continental Europe.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@TurtleCat
take on the entire continent that later conquers the whole word
win but decide it's impossible and unrealistic to annex everything so only make modest demands
people later claim you were both a ruthless tyrant who made excessive demands and others dismiss your achievements because it doesn't look grosse on a map
ebin

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Dreamworx
He took Portugal (well, not personally as it wasnt worth it) in 11 days

Napoleon ordered Junot to commence the invasion, with the cooperation of three divisions from the Kingdom of Spain.

Paralyzed by fear and indecision, the Portuguese authorities offered no resistance. Junot occupied Lisbon on 30 November 1807 to find that John and many of the leading families had left for Brazil aboard the Portuguese fleet.

The French quickly occupied the entire country and appropriated or disbanded the Portuguese army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Portugal_(1807)

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Supergrass
Manlet compensating.

martial arts
not fucking useless

Learn how to use a gun.

girlDog
girlDog

@Boy_vs_Girl
quickly bogged down in guerilla warfare that drains the French army's manpower harder than 1812 before being driven out
conquest

spotted the french!

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Nude_Bikergirl
take on the entire continent that later conquers the whole world

sophistry

Techpill
Techpill

@girlDog
quickly
A year of occupation

Muh guerilla
Spotted the Portugayse
Guerilla was irrelevant, Brits liberated pussy ass Portuguese

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Techpill
a year is a vast amount of time

the butthurt frenchy is real

200 years later, you still mad about the war YOU LOST

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Nude_Bikergirl
take on the entire continent

AND LOST

L O L !

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Firespawn
not at all
he won
and won
and won
and won
then lost

so far no one has been as close to winning as he was

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@SniperWish

But he lost twice. Shit record.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@SniperWish
Hitler won, and won, and won, and won and then lost

THAT MEANS HITLER WAS THE GREATEST GUYS

the butthurt frenchy is real

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@RumChicken
Hitler didn't lead shit.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@VisualMaster
nice goalpost shift

YOU LOST

DEAL WITH IT

Continue trying to "refute me" in English, Frenchy. :)

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Skullbone
I'm not French, but if I was I'd be mad at Russians and Brits, not at moortuguese

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Nojokur

As in Alexander the Great, not Suvorov

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Firespawn
They once won a war against the entire civilized world
What other general can claim that?

viagrandad
viagrandad

@RumChicken
Hitler didnt lead anything and lost the first coalition war he fought
Hitler's domination on Europe lasted 4 years, Napoleon's lasted for two decades

takes2long
takes2long

@viagrandad
Hitler didn't exist you moron

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Firespawn
The only thing that did him in was invading and fighting the Russian winter. And that was because he did it first, and yet Hitler didn't learn from napoleon.

Techpill
Techpill

@RumChicken
hitler never won a war against all the european powers
Napoleon did

why do people draw comparisons? is it because anglos are uneducated?

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Inmate
You're the 1st person I've seen here mention Suvorov. He's criminally overlooked amongst historical commanders. He's probably the best that Russia ever produced.

@Lunatick
It wasn't just Napoleon, but Desaix, Kleber, and other commanders.

Still it is impressive that Revolutionary France was able to thwart off the might of the European powers.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Deadlyinx
he literally changed revolutionary France from trash to the most affluent place in europe

TechHater
TechHater

@RumChicken
A revolutionary. When i think head of state, i think of a Statesman and an Administrator. While he was good, like I said, he isn't really known for it, for good reason. he did issue a great set of laws, though.

eGremlin
eGremlin

most influential
Let's be objective here.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@SomethingNew
It's a tie between Napoleons mentor Dumas and Suvorov.

Napoleon comes in 3rd or 4th honestly, he had one tactic and kept using it for 15 years.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@TechHater
for good reasons
Name better heads of state
He created most french institutes, universities, a code of law that became the one of most of europe, loved and promoted greatly arts and archeology. It was an actual golden age for sciences.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@CodeBuns
Please tell me what you call the entrance hall of a home, cuck island.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@eGremlin
he confuses Muhammad with Ali

triggers me every time

girlDog
girlDog

@Stupidasole
@Emberfire
If anything Suvorov is overrated here.
do one good campaign against turks
destroy a terrible polish revolution, with barely armed soldiers
destroy the russian army in Italy
Not a terrific record desu

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@girlDog
How would you rate Eugene of Savoy?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Methshot
Georgy "I hate Germans but I hate Russians more" Zhukov

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Sharpcharm
Highly. Better than Suvorov, though he did less theorical work

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@SomethingNew
Yes

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Deadlyinx
False. He was massively mentally prepared for the russian winter.

5mileys
5mileys

@SomethingNew
Yes, he was the best person that humanity ever had to offer.

hairygrape
hairygrape

@Skullbone
Yeah but it took six wars of united countries to wear him down. As great and the UK was, they never had a legendary battle like Leipzig or Austerlitz. Waterloo and Trafalger are still kind of their big famous battles even though Napoleon won much larger battles against much worse odds.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@King_Martha
It's an expression of physical coordination and discipline. A fucking 120 lb woman can pull a gun out of her purse and shoot you, owning a gun instead of knowing how to fight is not the masculine choice.

The ideal is both though.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Poker_Star
5`7 was average at that time.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@massdebater
It was never his fault that he lost a battle.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@Stupidasole
Napoleons mentor Dumas
do you mean barras because dumas was not his mentor by any stretch of the imagination

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Poker_Star
neck yourself
@TurtleCat
average man was short

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@SomethingNew
Yes
I mean who else falls asleep for 15 minutes in the middle of battle and still wins the battle.
Who else was the first European power to invande egypt and win a huge battle (Battle of the Pyramids)
Who else got defeated ONLY by the russian winter. There was not a single significant battle that he lost before he lost his half-a-million-army to the Russian Climate.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@TurtleCat
nigga that's a fuckload of shit

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Stupidasole
he had one tactic
I think you confuse Tactic's with strategy. From a full on frontal assault at Borodino to turning the enemy flank at Wagram etc etc.

I could go on that's just two battles.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@GoogleCat
average man was short
The average man was average

farquit
farquit

@Ignoramus
I quite agree about Napoleon being the greatest. But he had allready lost more then a third of his army come October 1812.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Spamalot
then why did tons of french people call napoleon short

there are so many sources for the average man being short throughout history so idk what you're trying to prove

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@cum2soon
@takes2long
@askme
But he did conquer most of the world and then it was The End (of Napoleon).

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Ignoramus
Not just Russian winter. The British trade blockade had hurt not just the traditional French territories but fostered a lot of resentment for Napoleon in his vassals and tributaries.

The British were hounding Napoleon with what was essentially pre-modern state sponsored terrorism too.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@viagrandad
average man being short throughout history so idk what you're trying to prove
The average man is by definition average you dumb shit.

FastChef
FastChef

@ZeroReborn
educate yourself retard

farquit
farquit

@FastChef
Doesn't understand the meaning of the word average
Thinks I should educate myself

Right back at ya

Firespawn
Firespawn

@farquit
average height as a concept didn't exist back then

there were three heights; short, middle and tall; people who met napoleon called him short

i'm done talking to you anyway since you can't be bothered to do your own research

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@Firespawn
Right average height wasn't a thing back then. That's why we have lists of Grenadiers and Chasseurs and Voltigeurs talking about their average height.

The first recorded time that the arithmetic mean was extended from 2 to n cases for the use of estimation was in the sixteenth century. From the late sixteenth century onwards, it gradually became a common method to use for reducing errors of measurement in various areas.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Firespawn
There were a lot more terms for length than short middle and tall you dumb fuck. People have been measured in feet since fucking 1100.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@BinaryMan
That's why we have lists of Grenadiers and Chasseurs and Voltigeurs talking about their average height.
there was no such thing as THE average height

why are you arguing with me about the fact that napoleon was short when everyone who met him called him short
@New_Cliche
napoleon was short and the average man was short

look it the fuck up, read primary sources for fuck's sake

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Need_TLC
France, adult man, 1800 - 1820, 164.1 cm average
From: Steckel, Richard H. and Roderick Floud (eds.)Health and Welfare during Industrialization Chicago : University of Chicago, 1997.

Napoopan, 168-170 cm, above average according to my source.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Need_TLC
everyone who met him
Anglo's, all of them

there was no such thing as THE average height
If there are more than 2 people to measure there can always be an average height.

askme
askme

@Spamalot
then why did his friends and contemporaries call him short
@happy_sad
no many of his french friends called him short

the average height in the united kingdom was 5' 7" in the 1900s and yet 5' 7" people were still called short

churchill was average height and yet he was short like these are facts that you should know

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@askme
then why did his friends and contemporaries call him short
Where do they do this? I read Laura Junot's letters and I can't remember her calling him short.

the average height in the united kingdom was 5' 7" in the 1900s and yet 5' 7" people were still called short
By you right?

these are facts that you should know
The fact is that Napoopan was 4 centimeters longer than average making him longer than average making him longer than most of French population. Go back to /fit/ please.
You should know
Why the fuck does somebodies length interest you this much that you think everybody should know about it. Are you indoctrinated by /fit/?

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Poker_Star
Where do they do this? I read Laura Junot's letters and I can't remember her calling him short.
barras
stael
bourienne
By you right?
by everyone

we all know that churchill was considered short yet he was of average height why are you fighting me on this
The fact is that Napoopan was 4 centimeters longer than average making him longer than average making him longer than most of French population. Go back to /fit/ please.
and still short

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Skullbone
barras
stael
bourienne
Friends

Every single one of those guys had a bone to pick with the man. Stael even hated him so much she fled france the moment he returned for the 100 days.

TechHater
TechHater

@RumChicken
well so did permon

random people thought he was short, betsy balcombe thought he was

Nojokur
Nojokur

@TechHater
Ah, an anglo

So far you have only managed to name three of his personal enemies, and an Englishwomen.

Without citations anywhere.

I am truly impressed with your level of scholarship.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Nojokur
yeah that's right betsy balcombe, a fucking child, had it in for napoleon that's why she said he was short

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@Stark_Naked
Nice research buddy. Betsy wrote her memoires in articles in 1843 and then in a book in 1844.

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Stark_Naked
@Raving_Cute
Nice citation btw

massdebater
massdebater

@Raving_Cute
@Lunatick
she was remembering what she thought as a child
Napoleon’s position on horseback, by adding height to his figure, supplied all that was wanting to make me think him the most majestic person I had ever seen. His dress was green and covered with orders, and his saddle and housings were crimson velvet richly embroidered with gold. He alighted at our house and we all moved to the entrance to receive him.
On a nearer approach, Napoleon, contrasting, as his shorter figure did, with the noble height and aristocratic bearing of Sir George Cockburn, lost something of the dignity which had so much struck me on first seeing him.

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