The death of social democracy

>deregulate banks
>banks fuck shit up
>now you have to bail them out
>'well atleast it wasn't big gubmen' - libertarians

I'll take 'real wages not scaling with productivity' for 2 dollars

>unsustainable
conservatives always increase public debt more than socdems do

wages yes, compensation no

minneapolisfed.org/publications/the-region/where-has-all-the-income-gone

but this is different per country, most productivity gains have gone directly to wages in the uk for instance, other times of employee compensation are less common there

Automation killed the correlation.

The fall of the soviet union led to appeasement of left wing minded people becoming less important

The party is going pretty strong here in Denmark desu.
Social democracy has simply changed name in the rest of Europe to Sweden Democrats, Front Nationale etc. It's still the same idea of state-regulated capitalism, now just with added nationalism.

>if I greentext this strawman maybe it looks like a real argument

It's kinda supported by real historic evidence desu

Open borders

Late stage progressivism.

Yeah, I was talking 1840-1980.

Do you know what a strawman argument is?

Rosa Luxemburg and this

People that have more moneys want to have even more moneys, rather than equality. And their money speaks louder than good hearted socialist communes.

Democracy degrades. You're not likely to get more democracy from democracy. People tend to follow some populist maniac and stick out their asses for screwing. It's a Jew cycle - few rich people build their empires on the backs of others. Once in a while people stand up and say - enough. Then it starts again.

I think their main problem was that they tried hard and then succeeded in convincing people that capitalism was not only acceptable, but also inevitable. That there was no alternative.
So people naturally stopped voting for them and supported the original capitalists instead of the wishywashy ones.

Neoliberalism, identity politics, breaking of trade unions. It wasn't that that social democracies are bad, but all their hard work crumbles just as soon as they get voted out.

Also thisBitches had it coming for what they need to Rosa

>need to Rosa
did to Rosa

youtube.com/watch?v=8vFL0QWxugI

Correct. Long as there's a bourgeoisie, they're going to fight back against any social democratic fixes that weigh them down.

It's a shit system

Come again?

>>>/leftypol/

...

oh look, /leftypol/ refugees

The rise of identity politics is an understated reason for the fall of social democracy.

When "helping the poor" turns into "subsidizing hostile immigrants" it becomes far less palatable for the indigenous voters.

Question!

What are the origins of rose as symbol for socialism? History and such?

other way around. conservatism is at its end, we are merely witnessing its death throes. in 20-30 years conservatism will mean something closer to center.

Probably not. Right wing politics are just starting. Each terrorist attack, each immigrant wave will fuel populism and right wing politics.

>be jew bitch

>try to instigate an overthrow of a government you perceive as weak

>get curb stomped by them

start shit get hit faggot.

not at all dude, only old people and edgy fags are on the right, and once that boomer wave dies off things are going to look very different socially.

Turns out it's really hard to pay for all of those social programs when you import third world muds and shits who don't work and you have to start raiding pension funds to pay for their welfare.

>venezuela is totally a socialist country guise xD
>wat do you mean oil being cheap and plenty of short-sighted populism raped their economy? fuck leftists lmao

In multicultural societies any type of "democracy" is primarily divided across ethnic rather than ideological lines.

>being so out of touch he thinks BOOMERS are the ones massivly supporting right wingism

>not understanding this entire aborted fetus of a system was created by left wing boomers

lol. Dont be scared, all thats going to happen is multiculturalism will be eternally trashed and the hypercucked oikophobia/self hatred you guys shill will just continue to become more and more cringyworthy.

Honestly, this.

There is no way socialism can survive in 21st century. Immigration from MENA and Africa will be a death blow for socialism.

Correct.

>ITS NOT FAIR BECAUSE THE WORLD ECONOMY DIDNT JUST CHANGE ITSELF FOR THE NEEDS OF ONE RETARDED COMMIE SHITHOLE!

lol. Be stupid faggots with your money, get burned.

>implying they care or are rational

These are suicidal maniacs. Once you realize this is makes a lot more sense. For whatever reason, they have some deep seeded self hatred. They, like uncle Adolf, will drag the world down to hell with them by stubbornly holding onto their horrid ideology. Like a petulant child swiping the game board off the table when he loses.

There were Swedes attempting to kid the muslim guy who ran over all those people btw.

>populism and corruption get out of hand in a country and nuke their own economy
>therefore [an ideology I hate] is shit xD

woah, so african countries prove that capitalism is shit?

No, they prove that Africans have no work ethic, and neither capitalism or communism can help them.

Social democracy is still not called socialism. They are too completely different ideologies.

>populism and corruption

oh fuck youre right! I forgot that this is the one and only socialist country where this happened.

> so african countries prove that capitalism is shit?

no because I can point to real life examples of it working while you cant do the same for socialism, other than imagined perfect ones in your brain

youtube.com/watch?v=9Onj4Wx61ps

>no arguments

>If I muddy up the semantics of socialism, I can attribute it all kinds of failures xD
O SAY CAN YOU SEE

Do Africans have same work ethic as Germans or French?

>>If I muddy up the semantics of socialism

except I didnt. You bitched about corruption and populism bringing it down as if this is the one and only example of corruption in a socialist country.

You made a stupid point and I called you out on it. Keep clinging onto your failed ideology though. Theres literally no argument you can make when the people in your utopia are hunting down rats to eat you silly cuck

>In the classic rose and fist representation, red symbolizes the blood spilt by workers the world over in the fight for their emancipation and was directly inherited from the red banner flown at the Paris Commune, the original and hitherto base symbol of the workers' cause. After the 1886 Haymarket Massacre, socialists and trade unionists began wearing red roses or carnations on their lapels to show solidarity with the eight labour leaders who had been convicted of inciting to riot. Four of them were hanged. After this, a red rose was often worn during May Day marches and other socialist events. After World War II the red rose became widely adopted as a symbol of socialism.

They work hard, they aren't as productive ss them though.

Are you implying that there's no self-destructive corruption or populism in capitalist countries?

>no because I can point to real life examples of it working while you cant do the same for socialism
This is so stupid. I bet you're the typical mongoloid who thinks socialism is all about dictatorships and no private property but it has nothing to do with worker and women's rights.

>Are you implying that there's no self-destructive corruption or populism in capitalist countries?

No you dumbass. Corruption is everywhere because its in all people. The difference is, in a capitalist country, the corrupt politicians cant really bring down the whole damn thing since its a free market while central planning retardation is a whole different thing. So what the fuck do you think is going to happen when you make politicians, who are inevitable going to be corrupt, into gods over you?

>all dat deflection and projection

lol youre doing this because you know Im right. There isnt one socialist country that worked. They all fail the same painfully slow death and you autistic children still cling onto it like stubborn jackasses thinking "oh, it will DEFINITELY work this time!"

>women's rights.

you mean like the ones they have in America, right now? inb4 you start droning on about cultural marxist myths like "muh wage gap" and "muh rape culture"

>you mean like the ones they have in America, right now?
yes it's not as if there were significant socialist pressures in the USA a century ago.

>completely ignoring everything in the post except for the womens rights issues because you realize Im right and dont have an argument

lol.

Fucking Tony Blair and Anthony Giddens.
Third way was a mistake.
And then that fuck Blair decided to support war in Iraq.
That's when Social Democracy died.
Thankfully in Europe, the new left (which is just rebranded old left) is forcing SD to slowly drift back to more left side, and not just be a neo-liberalism witha human face.

>in a capitalist country, the corrupt politicians cant really bring down the whole damn thing since its a free market
you're painfully wrong about this

>central planning retardation is a whole different thing. So what the fuck do you think is going to happen when you make politicians, who are inevitable going to be corrupt, into gods over you?
But that's communism.

>you mean like the ones they have in America, right now? inb4 you start droning on about cultural marxist myths like "muh wage gap" and "muh rape culture"
I meant of course voting rights and stuff.

>lol youre doing this because you know Im right. There isnt one socialist country that worked.
You're probably mistaking communist for socialism here. You'd of course know the difference and how ignorant you sound if you bothered to educate yourself beyond memes and infographics.

Oh please it was the motherfucking boomers who dismantled the social democracy they had for the neoliberal shit. Those good old days they pine for was only possible with socdem shit and they burned that bridge for younger generation.

Rosa actually didn't want the revolution because she believed it was premature

It was started by independent communists on the ground

>people actually think Venezuela is socialist and not social democrat when there's private companies/stores in Venezuela
>history and """humanities"""

May 1968.

Without the cultural values of Christianity, social democracy doesn't have the strenght to contain the destructive traits of capitalism.

>they have not completed the transition to socialism because the economy collapsed before, so the entire attempt which was enacted by a socialist political movement and cheered on by socialist intellectuals cannot be blamed on socialism as an ideology

And if you think the Venezuelan experiment was not "socialist", see this:

nacla.org/article/communal-state-communal-councils-communes-and-workplace-democracy

venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/12865

counterpunch.org/2016/12/30/venezuelas-communal-movement/

They attempted to build a radical "communal state" that would be "true communism" on steroids. Everyone thought it was cool at the time. Until it failed.

this

social democracy was a capitalism trojan horse to stop real socialism in Europe
at the end they have showed as the traitors they are to the left

left wing parties in the west turned from "let's help the working class" to "fuck white people"

True communism has no state, no market, and no class division. Try again.

The centerpiece of social democracy is deception, to explicitly state that general welfare is the government's prerogative and then prioritize the few to achieve a facade of success.
All extremely statist governments depend on this, which is why the "real communism" dodge always works in infuriating me. Shoring up anything--be it currency value, real capital, employment, wage numerical value etc--is a challenge to economic reality and at best a delaying action against the inevitable. The only way to serve to the benefit of the many is laize-faire with diligent legalistic limitation on joint ventures and corporatization to permanently enable the fairest opportunity to create capital at the ground level, serving indirectly every population by ensuring the ability of anyone anywhere, to take advantage of a better idea, a better plan, or a better product.
But that both alienates powerful economic forces and the inherent bloodlust of have-nots and layabouts, so here we are, talking about social democracy.

That's what they were trying to achieve with the communal movement.

>wage numerical value
>laize-faire
>corporatization
>serving indirectly every population
>inherent bloodlust of have-nots and layabouts
Most subtle bait I've ever seen on this site. Props

>not one word about scandinavia

americans truly and entirely fucked terminology in politics

CRAAAAAWLING IIIIIN MY SKIIIIN
THESE WOUNDS, THEY WIIIILLL NOT HEAAAAAAAALLL

>the inherent contradictions within the capitalist system
There aren't any, though, except one:
>it's basic presumption that people are equal
>or rational
Oh, and this is cute:
>increased public debt
Grow a fucking brain and read a nice intro to monetary economics, such as pic related, you fucking imbecile, or anything else by L. Randall Wray or Warren Mosler.

scandinavia isn't even demsoc, they are welfare capitalism.

>actually unironically using the "not muh real socialism!" argument

lol

No inherent contradicitons in the capitalist system you are joking right?
I´ll start with the most obvious one:
It is in the laborer's best interest to maximize wages and benefits and in the capitalist's best interest to maximize profit at the expense of such, leading to a contradiction within the capitalist system.

>It is in the laborer's best interest to maximize wages and benefits and in the capitalist's best interest to maximize profit at the expense of such, leading to a contradiction within the capitalist system.
That's not a contradiction, it's a conflict

they invited niggers, sandniggers and all the subhuman trash to Europe

>Intentionally creates some of the weakest and most permissive immigration/naturalizations policies in the world
>Supports liberal internationalism just as much, if not more, than the center-right do (especially today)
>Unironically believing "unalienable" human rights are real while not believing in god
>Unironically believing that all people on earth are going to do away with their racial identities at some indeterminate point in the future and agglomerate into one "global race"
>Unironically believing letting tens of millions of random people into your country will result in them "assimilating" simply because you will it to be so

I could go on forever, but most crucially:

>Genuinely believing in the axiom that "making things more equal makes them better" without actually questioning why you believe this

All derivatives of liberalism are bad, but Social Democracy deserves credit for being chief among the retards. Even MLism is a bit more bearable.

>it's a 'social democracy is socialism' episode
Holy shit, I had no idea this board was so full of illiterate people. The reason quality of life in the capitalist west was better than in the socialist east was because of social democracy. You are beyond delusional if you actually think western Europe used to be some kind of libertarian paradise. Privatization, tax cuts for the rich and deregulation are all recent developments that fucked up our public services, infrastructure, job market, house market, healthcare, education and caused insane inequality.

But sure, keep drinking the neo-liberal kool-aid that we ''''need'''' to cut spending on public services because the ultra-rich are avoiding tax en masse.

Non historical, fuck off, saged and called the cops.

>But sure, keep drinking the neo-liberal kool-aid that we ''''need'''' to cut spending on public services because the ultra-rich are avoiding tax en masse.

that's not neoliberal

Also, a friendly reminder that conservative and liberal governments completely fail at reducing public debt because they cut taxes for the rich and allow tax havens to exist. They often increase corporate welfare and military spending more than they cut public services and end up with more debt without anything to show for it.

>non historical
wew lad

>WOW DUUUUUUUUDE I MEAN WOOOOOW I KNOW IT DOESN'T FIT THE BOOT BUT DUUUUUUDE I SAW LIKE A GRAAAAPH AND IT SAID THAT YOU MADE A BAD ARGUMENT
Fuck off abbo.

It's just retarded Americlaps.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

>hurr durr people want more socialism that's why social democracy failed

How could you tankies be so disconnected from reality, jesus christ.

Go outside for once in your life. People don't want socialism, they don't believe in your magical fairy tales of an equal world.

>social democracy is socialism
refer to nobody wants deregulation, privatization and tax cuts for the rich either