There's a thing with religion that's been on my mind for some time, for example Islam. I will illustrate with a specific example but the concept I'm thinking of goes beyond the example and is of a more general character.
In Islam there is a view that certain acts are sins, and one of the punishments for sinning is that other people hate you.
But at the same time for example if you hate your mother, that is a sin.
Let's say your mother sinned, and you hating her is a punishment she is receiving for her sin.
There's an element of does free will exist or not in this matter.
James Rogers
Cite where this js in the Quran
Sebastian Flores
free will still exists, in the same way that you would still have free will if you stubbed your toe and you said ow
to hate sin is a reflex, choice doesn't come into it
Christopher Brown
I'm pretty sure Islam rejects free will
Benjamin Nguyen
no it doesn't
Robert Bell
one of their 6 articles of faith is belief in predestination
Hunter Turner
really? that's ironic because it seems to me all of their religion was fed into them from an early age just like inserting a program into a computer. And the output of their minds is just as predictable as that of the output of a computer, 100% based on the input. Furthermore, why do they think they have the right to view a man who hates his mother as a sinner and a bad person, if his mind being of that character is a result of his mother's behavior among other things. It seems like a contradiction to me. Honestly I believe ordinary people have no free will at all and are totally manipulated by the elite, who might have some free will perhaps.
Ethan Wood
What I meant by the OP is that there seems to be a contradiction. It can't both be true that if you hate your mother you sin AND that if your mother sinned her child would hate her as punishment. And another thing on top of this: if there is no punishment there is no sin. If your mother could do ANYTHING and get no negative consequences from it, then nothing would be a sin. A third thing that is related to this is the whole concept of argumentum ad populum, the bandwagon effect, that is so extremely prevalent in society. Take for example a thing like mental disorder. A mother can for example view her son as mentally disordered for cutting all connections with her and hating her etc. while totally denying that her own actions were responsible at all.
Parker Moore
>predestination which just means that God knows the future and the choices you will make but you're still making your own choices.
Dominic Barnes
This confuses me. I get that God is all knowing, but surely if he knows what I will choose before I do then I don't truly have free will as I will only ever choose the one thing God knows I will choose, and can never choose to choose something apart from what God knows I will choose, right?
Eli Sanders
FOR FUCK'S SAKE Nobody read the fucking OP. Everybody literally only read the title of the thread and are now discussing only that. FUCKING DUMBASSES
Isaac Jones
Because OP is retarded.
Jonathan Gomez
The topic of the thread isn't free will and Islam in general. It's about the contradiction that seems to exist from my observations.
This contradiction:
>It can't both be true that if you hate your mother you sin AND that if your mother sinned her child would hate her as punishment.
>It can't both be true that if you hate your mother you sin AND that if your mother sinned her child would hate her as punishment.
>It can't both be true that if you hate your mother you sin AND that if your mother sinned her child would hate her as punishment.
>It can't both be true that if you hate your mother you sin AND that if your mother sinned her child would hate her as punishment.
Nathaniel Morgan
no, you are retarded
Connor King
>one of their 6 articles of faith is belief in predestination
All the monotheisms with an omnipotent God by definition 'believe' in predestination - God already knows all that will come to be otherwise he would not be 'all-knowing'. Even some religions without such a God believe in some level of 'predestination' whether it's the the karma of action and consequence, or the fruits of their being believers to whatever divine mercy they believe to come for being followers in the first place.
Chase Torres
Islam has 5 pillars and none of them are predestination, though as another user pretty much said, all the Abrahamic faiths believe in predestination because they believe in an omniscient, omnipotent god.
Elijah Watson
No. Think on it longer. Knowing you will make a decision hardly constitutes forcing you to make a decision, does it?
Brayden James
6 articles of faith refers to iman, not the five pillars of islam
Brayden Brown
You need to make your argument for why none of that can be true.
Asher Brooks
Very well. Predestination still doesn't negate free will, if it even exists.
Daniel Murphy
>You need to make your argument for why none of that can be true. Not "none of that". Not both simultaneously. To sin means to do wrong. How can you be doing wrong when you're doing what God commanded, i.e. your actions are the punishment in action.
Lincoln Butler
furthermore their is in my opinion a huge hypocrisy in all of islam, or at least among all so-called muslims, this thing that's in the bible about seeing the speck in the brother's eye but not the log in your own eye. Acting out punishment for other people's sins is pretty much what Islam is all about, yet they constantly bash others for doing just that, involuntarily.