Welsh nationalism?

>Breton isn't in Britain
>Breton isn't Brittonic

I feel like linguists do this shit just to confuse me.

For Breton, yes. Cornish died out in the 1700s but is having a small revival.
Breton was brought from Britain to what is now Brittany by Celtic Britons in the 5th century. [spoiler]Try saying that five times real fast.[/spoiler]

Brittany is called that because it's founding population were British Britons
Also I'm pretty sure it's a Britonic language.

Brythonic Celts (Britons, Bretons, Picts, etc.) and Gaelic Celts (Irish, Scots, etc.) are different from each other.

>What is now the UK used to be populated by native Britons, mostly pagan and rural
True
>Anglo-Saxons come in, conquer most of the land
Questionable. Many accounts hold the Saxons as being invited. They also definitely didn't conquer and displace the native population, as they certainly interbred enormously with the locals.
>What is Wales now was the last stronghold for the native Britons
Assuming you ignore Scotland, most of Cornwall and Devon (the spit of England south of Wales on maps), and the fact that south Wales is pretty anglicised at this point.
>Legends of King Arthur portray a Briton/Welshman fighting the Anglo Saxons, which is thy Welsh love their red dragon symbolism
Questionable to the point of worthlessness.

>Welsh language is actually the remnants of the language spoken before conquest
True.

This is mostly accurate on some level. I'm not sure what it changes, but it all has some element of truth. Except the Arthurian thing, because that's just a mess.

>Legends of King Arthur portray a Briton/Welshman fighting the Anglo Saxons, which is thy Welsh love their red dragon symbolism
Most King Arthur legends are about him helping someone get pussy and other ridiculous shit

It's not questionable, it's fact that the Anglo-Saxons conquered the land. What is questionable is whether the native Britons were completely killed off or if the Anglo-Saxons and Britons mixed. In regards to them being invited, whilst they were originally invited in order to assist against the Scots and were given some land in the east (e.g. Kent), they weren't invited to settle and conquer the whole land. In regards to King Arthur, the only questionable thing is whether King Arthur would return (obviously he will not). It's fact that the Arthurian legend states that he was a Briton and that he would return to drive out the invaders and establish a new British kingdom.

This is now a Saber thread.

>What is questionable is whether the native Britons were completely killed off or if the Anglo-Saxons and Britons mixed.

That's not even slightly arguable. The Britons weren't exterminated by the Saxons. There is no archaeological or DNA evidence supporting extermination, significant evidence refuting it, and the historical sources on the subject are sparse and often unreliable.

Most of Arthur's legend was written in 1138, so I'm still not really sure how it's relevant.

Yes, hence why I said that it is a questionable view, you spastic.

Welsh nationalism makes no sense, since Wales was so heavily incorporated into the UK. The language is practically dead and you can't revive it by LARPing we wuz celts

Celts just got pushed to the edges of Britain by the Saxons: Wales, Cornwall, and Scot(Pict)land. The Celtic Britons were mostly Christianized by the time the Saxons invaded after centuries under Roman rule. The Saxons were pagan but they converted to Christianity as well not too long after they conquered England.

English people have 1/3rd anglo saxon dna. He's talking bollocks

The question is, why were celts as a culture destined to vanish?
Right now there is not even one country that majorly speaks a celtic language, in every "celtic nation" people must be obliged to learn their native language so that it doesn't completely die out.
Who's fault is it?

Why isn't this updated to reflect the new, racially diverse england? Millenia-old ethnic boundaries don't matter when every part of the country is equally permeated with syrians and pakis.

Not that I'm complaining of course. I'm happy to see these archaic racial boundaries being wiped out forever.

Not at all true.

Pack of lies

Majority of English ancestry is 'British'

Only places like Norfolk peak at 25% Germanic DNA

Wrong on all counts.

English person here.

All of that is correct.

Though the early Welsh had actually hired a bunch of Saxons en masse to defend them from the Irish and Picts and when the money ran out after the Roman withdrawal in 410 AD the Saxons seized their first major part of the island in the south-east. From then on it was a slow decline apart from a blip in the 5th century which is blamed on a King Arthur-esque figure.

T. Richard

Could anyone inform me why alleged 'nationalists' like the majority of Welsh 'nationalists' have this weird obsession with an ancient ethnic race war with the English, when they're perfectly happy to mass import the whole third world - who are racially entirely different compared to some North Western European Germanics they are butthurt over?

Same with Scotland really, except they have a weaker case for being butthurt about the English. Also the Irish. BRITS OUT, AFRICANS IN!

invite saxons to defeat the picts/scots

that strategy cant fail twice!

because they have a history of it

>>Welsh language is actually the remnants of the language spoken before conquest
No, this is not true, the Welsh and Romano-Britons used different language in the 5th century, which is attested in the names of people and places of that period.

The Welsh language survived better in the western lands.

Welsh is the one of the oldest languages in the world that's still commonly spoken. It outlived the Romans.

I thought the language would be dead after visiting Cornwall, where it almost is. As soon as you cross the border everything is dual language and most people speak some, and a lot are fluent. It's like being in a different country in places.

I figure everyone is mixed by now, the native religion is basically LARPing but there's still a lot of regional identity and language.

>I figure everyone is mixed by now
yes we are mixed but in my opinion that doesn't mean we aren't still the descendants from the ancient britons
most of us share dna with them, even if we do have some anglo saxon or norman or irish blood
it's like how the italians are arguably the descendants of romans despite some migrations. we are not 100% similar but still overwhelmingly

The language isn't dead. All signs are dual language and 20% of the population speak it as a first language.

I'm Welsh myself, and I honestly have no idea.
I suppose it may be because British nationalism is distinctly right-wing, so they react by backing the opposing sides.

But it had died, it's being revived, like how Hebrew had died.

Disregard, read Cornish somehow. I'm a dolt

>Questionable to the point of worthlessness.
How is that questionable about King Arthur? All of the earliest sources talking about King Arthur frame his as a Briton who fights invading Saxons. The whole reason he is portrayed as a great king early on is that he was able to repel the Saxons for decades. I guess it's true that most stories about him that have survived in popular culture aren't related to that theme, but it's the foundation of the mythology.

Cause Africans aren't the English I guess.

No it hasn't. Latin is still spoken today with some small amount of people who know it from birth. It's a language that has been in continues use for two and a half thousand years. That makes it a good thousand years older than Cymraeg.

As an Irish, Scottish and Maori I wouldn't bat an eye if someone from Sudan raped my sister, but if an Englishman so much as looks at him I'll kill him.

Mostly true the Romans first invaded and subjugated the Britons so we know little about the ancient culture, after the Romans came the Saxons then the Danes and pushed the Roman-Britons out finally the Normans conquered England and Wales

I'm glad I'm not your sister

Wasn't King Arthur roman? They also forgot to mention that the Britons had been Latinized by being in the Roman Empire for a few hundred years

Being Irish, I can only answer for my country.
What you have to understand is that Irish nationalism is not and has never been right-wing (unless you count the autism of the ACA in the interwar period which fell apart after they got rekt fighting for Franco in the Spanish Civil War, or current fringe parties like Identity Ireland with basically no followers).
Irish nationalism is viewed by many of its adherents as an anti-colonial/anti-imperial struggle of sorts, and Irish nationalist movements have often received help from revolutionary/anti-imperial powers (e.g. revolutionary France in 1796-8, the nascent RSFR in 1919, Libya in the 1980s).
In addition, Irish people have often been emigrants and refugees ever since the Famine, so many of us sympathise with people coming to our country looking for a better life.
To put all this in very simple terms: we hate the English more than foreigners from any other country, which is to say that we don't hate foreigners whatsoever, except for the English.

Having said all that, here's a spicy meme from our last election that fits the bias of your post.

the English were invaders, not invited in, as "third worlders" would be

I would assume that because, as uncivilized barbarians, they feel affinity for those like them. Whereas, towards the Anglo, they feel inadequacy and inferiority, coming from the comparisons of their civilization.

>never taught English history in school

Yankees gonna yank.

fairly accurate. even the normans had trouble subjugating the welsh

There is actually a theory that the first Anglo-Saxon wave was invited in, but I'm not knowledgeable on that topic.

My recollection of English history from my US public school:

1. Romans built a wall
2. Conquered by Germans
3. Conquered by French
4. Cucked by Scotts
5. Civil War
6. Found America
7. Lose America

Shit history lad.

>What is now the UK used to be populated by native Britons, mostly pagan and rural
True, but what makes me laugh is that nobody ever mentions the fact that the 'Scots' arrived in Britain at roughly the same time as the Angles and Saxons. But, because they are perceived as 'Celtic', nothing is said about their 'invasions'.

>Anglo-Saxons come in, conquer most of the land
They settled mostly in the South and along the East coast, before subsuming British tribal lands and exerting cultural influence.
Anyone who thinks the English are of wholly Germanic descent, and the Welsh absolutely devoid of it, is a moron. Many 'Anglo-Saxon' kings had names of British origin, such as the 7th century Cædwalla of Wessex.

>What is Wales now was the last stronghold for the native Britons
The Welsh carry almost as much Anglo-Saxon genetic material as the English.
I read that Edward the Confessor actually revoked an ancient law barring marriage between the English and Welsh, as his campaigns in Wales had left so many men dead that thousands of Welshwomen were left without spouses.

>Legends of King Arthur portray a Briton/Welshman fighting the Anglo Saxons, which is thy Welsh love their red dragon symbolism
Arthur was supposedly a Briton who fought against the Anglo-Saxon 'invaders', yes.

>Welsh language is actually the remnants of the language spoken before conquest
Celtic languages remained spoken in parts of England too. Cornish in Cornwall, for instance, remains spoken to this day. Cumbric remained spoken in North-West England until well after the Norman conquest. Today it survives mostly in the form of place names, such as Pen-y-Ghent. The people of West Yorkshire bear genetic markers which are unique within the British Isles, a legacy of their [partial] origins in the Kingdom of Elmet, a Celtic state which was one of the last in what we now know as England to be subsumed by the Anglo-Saxon states.

youtube.com/watch?v=9UaAyI-uI30

All of that is true

So basically the English are just Celts LARPing as Francified Germans. Seems Turk tier desu senpai

It's not LARPing if they're you're ancestors.
The Romans came here too y'know

:^)

Welsh never died, look at fluency in the 1800s and 1900s. It declined, and is now growing, but it never died and thus never needed a revival

t. Family who have spoken welsh as far back as is traceable

Asian turks are also the ancestors of turks in turkey but it's around 15%. The vast majority of the contribution to the native genetic material is from the indigenous anatolian population, just like in Britain. Just seems like Anglos are on the same tier as Turks when it comes to culturally LARPING as a different ethnic group

I see your point, but I really don't think it's LARPing if you're taking an interest/pride in the cultures and achievements of your ancestors

>What is now the UK used to be populated by native Britons, mostly pagan and rural

Absolutely.

>Anglo-Saxons come in, conquer most of the land

Yes

>What is Wales now was the last stronghold for the native Britons

They're the only ones left, so yes.

>Legends of King Arthur portray a Briton/Welshman fighting the Anglo Saxons, which is thy Welsh love their red dragon symbolism

The very earliest legends, before the French and English reinterpreted them, yes.

>>Welsh language is actually the remnants of the language spoken before conquest

Absolutely.

Well, it's not entirely clear how the Anglo-Saxons colonised the rest of the UK, but that's a very large debate in archaeology in and of itself.

It may have been violent at times, sometimes not. But they did end up on top.

Welsh language is nuts

No fucking shit.
youtube.com/watch?v=fHxO0UdpoxM

>REEEE FUCKING BRITISH ICE AGE FISHERMEN FROM 'ENGLAND' AND THOSE SCOTTISH GAEL SETTLERS THAT LITERALLY JUST HOPPED BACK TO THEIR ANCESTRAL TERRITORY
>WE MUST FIGHT FOR INDEPENDENCE FOR OUR NATION AND PEOPLE
>*imports a shit ton of brown sludge that threatens to possibly outbreed the indigenous nation/people of Ireland
>dude anyone can be Irish lmao, they just have to be born here
>*looks at an ulster irishman*
>YOU COLONIAL SETTLER SCUM REEEEEEEEEE KILL THE CRACKER KILL WHITEY REEEEE
>calms self by taking a dozen nigerian bulls imported straight from da muddaland

...

>>>/reddit/

By the time Danes came, they only had English to push down.

genuinely thought he was having a stroke

The eternal Anglo's

It's actually a lot easier than English once you learn the sounds each letter makes. Unlike English, the sounds never changed so you can read any new word out straight away
This place name was just a tourist thing, but it's not actually that hard to say