Western world tax strike?

Every where I look I see governments treating public money like it was free. Australia wasting billions on a shitty internet infrastructure upgrade that in many cases consumer dollar for consumer dollar is the same as what they have now.

Europe importing millions of unemployable immigrants that will do nothing but be a burden to the welfare system (and they haven't even started putting roots down and having 5 kids yet).

The US is 20 trillion dollars in debt, most of the tax paid in that country goes straight into interest payments. Nothing productive actually gets done with it.

I'm tired of it all Veeky Forums... Global first world tax-strike when?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=ewvbjiaH92g
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

hang the bankers

sort your govt

make ultra nationalist crypto to finance all public infrastructure, no interests, no taxes.

or BECOME SLAVES

...

gtfo idiot
your racist ass poster doesn't have any black people in it
you're no true commie, fucking anarchist fist raisin

Is there a way to make a governemnt on the blockchain?

Perhaps a for-profit one to give people an incentive to contribute. It would require no taxes, and it would do public big works such as building roads.

yeah thats never gonna happen OP
people are such cucks...
even here int he crypto space first thing all these faggots ask "how can I make sure I can pay a shitload of taxes on my crypto gains?"

these elites have zero power. if the masses stopped being so braindead we could slaughter them all in a week and be done with it. but again, never gonna happen...

A technocracy is needed where the brightest minds on the industry & science field, along with help of natural leaders who've proven to be competent work together on actual projects and solutions and do away with attorneys, judges, and general lawmen, accoutants and bankers who've been screwing us for centuries.
All shitskins got to be deported for this to work, though.
Yes you can digitalize, improve and make efficient the process of producing and distributing goods. You can't actually digitalize governance yet, but you can make qualified citizens vote on Internet on important matters.

...

Which is the old Platonic ideal, more relevant today than ever.

Since in general people are fucking dumb, the smartest and most noble must rule, in order to help a commited population raise their intellectual capacity and maybe even genetics too if done well

>the smartest and most noble must rule, in order to help a commited population raise their intellectual capacity
yeah that sure has worked out right bud?

Why did that big 'the dao' have to fail.
Despite the millions of dollars lost the biggest damage was to destroy the image of
programmatically publicly owned corporations.

who said that it means high taxes?

Im talking about ZERO taxes when you don't have a govt financed on DEBT

black people are white, you racist bourgeois rat. stop appropriating my culture. fucking middle class wannabes.

>the smartest and most noble must rule
who chooses the smartest and most noble?
> in order to help a commited population raise their intellectual capacity
what does this mean? "help a commited population raise their intellectual capacity"
government ran schools?

which is what ((they)) love to do

...

>who chooses the smartest and most noble?
the people do, but the 'candidates' dont just pop out of nowhere or come from big $ like today, they are the result of a series of long
tests out of which they are 'finalists'.
The tests are subject of approval by the population, after a long consensus.

>the people do,
so the uneducated stupid people choose the people who are going to make them smart?

ok you can't make naturally stupid people smart,
what I mean is that those who have natural curiosity, capacity and intelligence are given all the tools they need to find their passion and be the best they can be, instead of going around chasing the $ wasting their lives away dreaming of other jobs or things they could be doing because we live in a society that forces people into this mindset.

wtf I hate roads now!

It's not even the taxes themselves that concern me, I mean If I'm paying money and that money is benefiting me in a fair way that's alright, I can even stand some of it being used for charitable purposes.

But I just see headline after headline:
Australia spends 9 billion dollars 'turning away' boat people... 9 Billlion? to turn away boats filled with poor people wtf, were you buying them mansions and life-time hookers in their home country?

Trump spending a shit load of public money at Marialgo..

It seems that governments don't really come up with new ways to help the people other than police/emergency services that were established over 100 years ago.

In australia we're using billions in renovating a public high-way... that is going to have a toll put on it when it's done to pay for it.. Then what the fuck did you charge me tax for?

No doubt the company/contractors that are building the highway are in cahoots with the governmental bodies that awarded the contracts. Which was the main purpose the thing is getting renovated.

They turned a 4 lane highway into an 8 lane one... then slapped a $5 daily toll on it so that even FEWER people would use it despite it doubling in size. The alternative route which is a free road already has potholes the size of burrowed wombats on it that is now going to have roughly double the traffic.

My problem isn't tax, it's mismanagement of funds. It feels like we're just donating money to some corporation that has taken it for granted and uses it for whatever it sees fit with no input from the people who paid the tax.

no, the tests are done by proffesionals but the people have the right to check the tests. People are dumb but they are not THAT dumb, if they smell something fishy they can always rebel. If you give govt too much power, even if they are doing good people will not trust. If you give it too little power you can't run a modern nation. So you always give the population the option to change their govt, you don't go all autoritharian on them. That gives them peace of mind

Lmao, saved

>taxes themselves that concern me
thing is, taxes are not needed, but additional contribution is always welcome, should come from the good will and not as something forced, and the rich man who has contributed a lot should be exalted/made a hero (if his wealth is justified/made honestly).

>rest of your post
international banks control 99% of govt decisions. They want to centralize global control. It is them people must focus on, but the have made it so govt always takes the blame, since govts are disposable, and in 'democracy' its even easier

>but you can make qualified citizens vote on Internet

Hmm yes but this already our current system, we create actions through delegation for individuals who claim they know what they are doing.

If we where to set up a centralized test the problem would just be moved to whoever controls said test.

So we need a decentralized test per field if you wish to participate in some matter. If you score at least 70% / B on the test you are allowed to participate.

But:
1. How is said test made?
2. How does said test evolve over time?
3. What should be placed on the test?
4. How does the system determine correct answers?
5. Who/what determines what a correct answer is?
...

I'm all for a referendum style government. A delegated one works very poorly imho. You end up choosing the "lesser evil" most of the time. Not what you actually want.

what is it with all of you. that you constantly demand for others to have a say in your life? you make it out to be about participation or perfect social order, but all you do is to demand for others to give you commands.

yeah they claim to know what the are doing and people take it for granted cause look, they wear a nice suit, they got degree and experience in blabla or whatever, and this dumb people vote is equally valid as everyone's. So not everyone should be able to vote, and there must exist some kind of control
on the individuals who are making the big decisions. Currently we know fuck all about our 'leaders', only that they are always mostly involved with big corps&banks.

Now about the tests. The primary requirement for taking the tests is absolute loyalty and commitment to your nation. Its like you sign a contract, if you get in power and screw anything up on purpose, you get the death sentence. If you screw it unintentionally, you get a good beating or some other unpleasanty.
That should do away with like 50% of aspirants from taking the tests.
This is enforced seriously. We need serious people who really care about the nation.

The tests are made by qualified proffesionals on all branches of science. There are ways to determine if an individual is honest. Also a background check is done to see if they have contacts with international interests.
It does have to be kind of authoritarian to force this, but on the good side. Yes problem is 'how you know they are on the good side?' Well this is solved by armed population who can always take control again.
At the end people always have to trust in the system put in place or it doesnt work. Each must do his part. If it doesnt, well there are your guns if the leaders dont wanna step away.

I think the ideal system is this:
The government itself works as it normally does now, EXCEPT: Any issue the government is currently making a decision on at all.. can be viewed through a 'list'.

The list can have topics upvoted or downvoted to float to the 'top'.

Once it crosses a certain threshold, say top 10 positions or so: The issue is transferred to an automatic national referendum with binding results. For issues that are voted to the top-10.. the final decision making power rests 100% with the people and bypasses the government completely.

This way the government can continue managing day to day tasks like land rights over a small hill that no one cares about...

While major decisions like "Should we invade Iraq".. goes straight into the public's hands. The public can choose to defer to a 'trusted' person they elect should it require knowledge of security-clearance level matters.

easy

there are people who give a fuck, and people who don't

people who give a fuck are actually concerned about the land they call their nation and want to see it improved and stop all the fucking corruption, and they know it's doable

people who don't give a fuck, either intentionally or not make things worse. They dont care about the future.

So people who give a fuck have the right to demand.

Do you give a fuck?

JFC this is amazing. I'm a libertarian and I laughed my ass off. 'Pay me in autographed Penn Jillette posters.' Gold.

what the fuck? It's about perspective.When you advocate for any government, you essentially advocate for people being forcefully commanded by others. And that includes you. I mean, I see that I'm being somewhat autistic here, but that doesn't make it any less true.
And while we're at it, the people who make things better, are the ones who make things better for themselves, not the ones who violently keep others from becoming wealthy for the sake of 'the greater good'. It's called the invisible hand. Are you making things better?

also me giving a fuck about your children doesn't give me any right whatsoever to have any say in their upbringing. So fuck giving a fuck.

what are you some kind of anarchist?

there will always be commander and commanded. Platon put it best:

"In a ship the strongest shouldn't decide, because that condition doesn't mean they know the best way" This is tyranny, rule of the strong.

"Neither should the rich rule, because being so doesnt mean they know the best way". This would be Plutocracy.

"In a ship the most popular shouldn't rule, neither popular beliefs, cause that doesnt mean it is the best way". This would be democracy, the masses are too ignorant for self governance.

"In a ship the one who knows the way must decide, the one who knows the methods of navigation. So the one who drives the ship is the wisest on the subject, the CAPTAIN."

If I wanted to see retards try and talk about politics I would be on /pol/. GTFO

plato certainly didn't understand how markets work. Anyway, to paraphrase Mises in a way that makes me very uncomfortable: "No one should rule, because there's no way for anyone to know everything"

and yet you felt the need to leave your stupid comment, adding nothing to the discussion

a single individual by himself of course doesn't know everything.

But put a team of Pros and they can handle 95% while people post on Veeky Forums

also no results or bad results means this gov will be short lasting. Do you libertarians have thought things through or do you just reject all govt cause you like feeling rebel?

>But put a team of Pros and they can handle 95% while people post on Veeky Forums

sure, as seen in every planned economy in the history of mankind.

>also no results or bad results means this gov will be short lasting

it'd even last shorter if there'd be private competition. actually, since government have the purpose of solving problems, why not replace it with a system of competing service providers where people who care about whatever problem they are solving can pay for while the rest of us are left the fuck alone? but no, instead we have to be legalised monkeys dragging folders of documents along to prove their own existence.

all planned economies had a central banker behind, so of course it doesnt work that way.

because these competing service providers can either team up or screw one another until only one is left, both ways its dangerous cause of the very $$ nature of it.
If you make $ the very basis or end goal of society, doesnt matter if govt or not, it ends corrupted cause there are no true morals and values.
>oh but people could choose to buy from these providers or not, and choose only the honest ones or those benefiting the country!

do you see people giving a fuck about half your shit being made in China and your national industry decaying?

>it ends corrupted cause there are no true morals and values.

dude, you do not understand the true meaning of money. It's a token of debt or gratitude if you will. In any fair trade both parties will only ever trade if they benefit from gaining the service or good more of the other party than keeping whatever service or good they are offering.
It's a win-win situation. This is essentially the gist of it, and I'm intentionally keeping zero-sum games like trading crypto or externalities out. Anyway, there lies implied, that whatever action you do, to get money on a fair, you will, whatever your intentions are, make a contribution to other peoples lives.
It's like a cruel joke god played on commies. And that's why you don't have to give a fuck about whether other people have values, because every dollar they earned with their own labour is a token of honour for the greater good of humanity.

>because these competing service providers can either team up or screw one another until only one is left

monopolies and cartels get inevitably fucked up the moment they show any weakness, because it is profitable for 3rd parties. You need to have a system of enforced distortion of market rules to keep them going, otherwise they collapse. In case they don't you have to assume they have found a optimum, which is a very good thing, albeit a impossible thing.

>do you see people giving a fuck about half your shit being made in China and your national industry decaying?
>muh jerbs.

dude, do you even understand that shit costing less, means you are richer? or do you think it's better when everyone has to do some tiresome outdated crap like manually ploughing fields, because of 'muh employment'? freeing up labour is the motor of invetion is the motor of freeing up labour. that's how we get richer.

I'm sorry, I fucked up the first paragraph. Anyway, if you can't decipher what I tried saying, just ask.

two problems

you assume more $ = richer, when your $ is just debt based fiat, with interests.

you define money in its current state, which is, as you said, a token of DEBT.

what is giving you riches is the people working their ass off, which they all have agreed to take your worthless piece of paper you call dollar for, so that you can enjoy products and services.

Money must be ONLY a mean of exchange, it has no value in itself. You shouldnt be able to make money only off money, ie with loans charged with interests, its unsustainable long term.

What happens if the day of tomorrow China govt chimps out and takes over all your factories and your little things they ship to you?
You're stuck with no industry, no cheap labour, and your 'riches' ($ trillions) are now worthless.

TL,DR: Industry and labour is value, $ is not

By the way, shit costing less now doesnt mean it wont cost you more in the future.

If even half of earnings of your corps with factory in China was put into National Industry, with advanced robotech instead of slave labour like China, you wouldnt depend on chinks anymore.
But then your rich dudes love their yatchs, lambos and drugs

there is no "we get richer" there is only fat jew getting richer, and you kissing his boot for a piece of the cake.

>you define money in its current state, which is, as you said, a token of DEBT.
well, that is why I mentioned gratitude. To make clear I am not talking bank-created virtual money. You are right, what is creating wealth, is indeed the people working their asses off,
but the reason they do it, is because they try gaining a benefit. Not for some notion of altruism.

Now, the problem is, you believe it's ok for a third party to dictate what trade is or is not ok - and thereby you actually demonstrate why I don't believe in governments: You do not and most likely can not see the benefit those two get. Loaning money is an action of resource allocation to another human being for him to increase his horizon of opportunity, meaning "you give that fucker the money, he opens a shop, pays you back - win win".
Without being able to profit from lending money there is no incentive for giving that future corner shop magnate the capital to start his empire. So, in essence, if you'd be dictator, you would have made the lives of millions, including yourself, a little bit worse.

>it has no value in itself
money has value, our current currency doesn't: It is merely backed by a threat of violence.

>What happens if the day of tomorrow China ...
yeah, erm, remind me again why you favour governments? Because I can easily imagine every other country doing something like this, in one way or another.
Anyway, since you bring up economic autarky, when china doesn't produce anymore, how many countries do you suppose are willing to sell their grandmother to do what china has been doing? When there's opportunity, there's a market.

>Industry and labour is value, $ is not

people are.

>there is no "we get richer"

yes, there is: buying a loaf of bread at half the price leaves you open to buy a tomato you otherwise would not have gotten. purchasing power is a thing. and leave the jew shit out, you sound like a nutter, and that's coming from someone who admits he's an anarchist.

ill be back in an hour with the answer

k, but I hope you're not on a quest to find academic sources or anything. Discussions on Veeky Forums aren't worth an hour's work.

nah i smoked a blunt with my cousin

listen, its not about big daddy taking care of you. Its simple: does this trade benefit you? thats fine you can do it. Does this trade benefit you, at the expense of your fellow countrymen? Wait, no you can't. Unless you pay this which will repair the damage your trade is doing, then you can do it.
Does it seriously impair our economy? No, you cant do it even if you pay.
When you reach a state that your country is producing and exporting more than it needs from outside, then its ok for you to bring that Lexus.
But international trade should not be done with currency, since this leads to unfair deals.
International trade should be barter, i give you these 10 machines you cant build for shit for your 500 tons of rice.
Industry should be on your soil or you're risking everyone's ass

>nah i smoked a blunt with my cousin
nice

>Does this trade benefit you, at the expense of your fellow countrymen?

that's called an externality. They can be solved in different ways, but generally pose a lot of complicated problems. The best known is probably environmental protection - or fireworks. Anyway, I honestly don't feel too confident talking about that topic, since I never bothered looking into it.

But, you're not solving anything by reducing trade to barter. All you do is complicating business transactions, and thereby increasing prices of goods - or making them completely unavailable in some cases. The czech republic certainly won't be the best place to buy swiss cheese, but might be one of the few countries willing to buy your wheel-mod for ships.

Additionally, keep in mind, that producing something in one place might not be as efficient or even economically feasible compared to another place. And that difference is perceived by us as price difference. Your average american citizen for instance is, much to the dismay of my compatriots, quite educated. Every year he spends in school the price of his labour increases, for his skill set and ability improve. A lot of things though do not need much skill, or education. Producing shoes for instance. It would not only be a waste to take someone who was educated in math for I don't know, 10 years, and put him in front of an assembly line, but also prohibitively expensive. Competing countries shoe would either still be on the market, or you'd just cut yourself off of cheap shoes, condemning especially the working class and poor people, to even greater poverty, because new shoes have just become a luxury good.

Pic related, think about what terrible world this child has to live in, to be this happy about new shoes.

Generally, the idea of national autarky has not only failed most times in history, but also trade barriers are what countries do to their enemies in times of war.

david angelo explains the problem with tariffs quite well in this videp - ignore any potential trump bashing, the important part starts around 2:30

>youtube.com/watch?v=ewvbjiaH92g

This meme is crap.

you're taking to the extremes what i said

the shoes you talk about, yes maybe its a waste to produce locally, but the skills of the dude educated in math along with those of others can allow them to build a shoemaker machine that may, initially, not reduce enough
the costs to justify making them instead of outsourcing labour. This mentality of "not worth it because less profit" instead of "less profit but more independence" is what will ruin your nation. Also, in the long run more of these machines (taking your shoe example) would cut dependence on other countries (autarky).

For the stuff that still makes no sense to make locally cause its way cheaper elsewhere, due to availability of resources there, would be bartered, yes, bartered, for stuff in HIGH demand in that place, that they cant economically produce.

What happens when you trade internationally in dollars? That foreign corp selling you shit is accumulating your money. They gave you a product (a Lexus for example) and you, as you said, in gratitude, give them your currency.
They patiently wait until your economy is in some crisis, then take your dollars which you so highly steem and value, and buy some stocks here, maybe some real state there, or you desperately sell some high advanced tech cause you need them monies, etc etc.
There are thousands of issues with free trade. Those giant multinational corps benefit greatly from free trade, and they work with the banksters against you. One day when they got enough control, they'll abandon all those capitalist/libertarian ideals and go full commie on our asses, on a global scale.
By defending the current economic system you're protecting the old big money, and you know a loooooot of shady shit happened back then (last 2 centuries). The economic elite of today don't deserve their place.

A new hierarchy must be born, not based on $

>along with help of natural leaders who've proven to be competent

nope, none of that shit anymore.

eventually this will happen but it will be every asset including private citizens

so china?

your multi corps and banks ruined my country, they are bleeding my country dry of resources, people here put all the money in your dollars.

The system works in your perspective cause you're in the recieving end, the good side, enjoying the benefits of your dollar system.

On my side, all my politicians are corrupt and sold to international $

They are literally giving away all our resources for pennies. Signing 90+ years mining contracts, petrol contacts, water contracts, etc with foreign corps.
Yes we get some jobs but we enjoy less than 1% of the real value of the resources, cause muh free trade.
We got technicians & engineers that could produce locally using available resources, half the shit we import. But any of those that exceed a bit are instantly hired by these corps, they either leave the country cause $$ or work here, for them.

See what I mean by caring about your country? Its about thinking 20 or 40 years ahead. People are like, wooo foreign investments rain of dollars wooo, dollars for all!
And with these dollars we buy useless consumer shit that doesn't advance our infrastructure at all.

oops meant to address this

what, are you one of those 'we are all equal, there is no better' people?

china with robots instead of slave labour, and without the commie shit. With actual enviromental regulations and a code of ethics.

heh, sorry, what's that shitcoin with George Washington on it? I only work for...
>MUH
>NER
>OH

>you're taking to the extremes what i said

yes and no. I have a tendency to utilise extremes and freak cases, but the effects of tariffs can be historically observed - and after all in the extremes you see the consequences of your ideas best.
I like David Angelos example really the best, because just hearing the numbers is mind boggling. Also there's a reason we don't barter, even though nations, still do from time to time. I am sure you know why bartering is not en vogue anymore.

Your argument about inventing a shoe making machine - that's what we are doing now. Though, right now we're a little smarter, because we sell the machine to the people who can produce shoes cheaper, so they can sell us shoes even more cheaper, which is awesome.
Actually we're even so smart, we let other people, who can produce that machine cheaper, built it cheaper, so we can profit more from selling it.. It's like, optimising resource allocation for increased wealth of everyone involved created by a cascade of greed.

Also, when your economy tanks, usually your currency tanks as well. So, in the end, whether or not it is up, will result in the same amount of stock you can buy. On the other hand, you could also barter stocks. Literally no problem solved.

There are no issues with free trade. The problem lies with existence of means to distort markets and create opportunity for rent seeking. Some times I really adore the left for implanting the world with so bizarre notions like needing trade, the source of our collective wealth, that has destroyed world hunger, to be restricted by government force, when it's the government force that enables the whole corrupt shit fest.

>they'll abandon all those capitalist/libertarian ideals and go full commie on our asses, on a global scale.

yes, I completely agree with you. Wonder how long it'll take for people to realise that negative interest could as well be called 'unloading bags'.

...

>By defending the current economic system you're protecting the old big money

but that's the thing: you are. you want to instil further power to the people who are selling out your country - or better said, you want to expand the system that enables the sell out in the first place.

>See what I mean by caring about your country?

erm, no? I just think what a great deal it has to be to get a well paid job way above your expectations and improving your living standards tremendously. What kind of collectivist bullshit is this to live a worse life because of uneducated people you don't even know?

>And with these dollars we buy useless consumer shit that doesn't advance our infrastructure at all.

that's your decision. yours alone. stop blaming others, man.

oh, and by the way, the skill of the shoe making guy won't be employed, because he's occupied with making a living producing shoes.

By barter I mean modernized barter. Like invent some crypto which has a established value which 1) doesn't change over time 2) cannot be speculated upon, and use it for trading based on demand and offer.
What we currently have is dollar as king, and all you yanks benefiting from trades which don't even involve you as a party cause thats the global order you established. Yes, kudos to you, but this is unsustainable even to you guys. Even you recognize your printing is going out of hand and once a suitable competitor to your currency pops up you'll be having hard times.

>we are so smart we depend on dozens of countries for many critical aspects of our economy

you guys are one step, one single mistake, one single unprecedented event not under your control, away from complete disaster. You can only sustain that kind of empire for so long in an increasingly populated and complex world.

I repeat you're only looking at benefits short term, yes it worked for a century but this century its over. You can only print and loan so much money, until people wise up that there is a huge wealth transfer going on, which can only logically end in a communistic authoritarian society, where 0.001% hold all the wealth and the rest are equally poor.

I'm not against money or capital. But there are two types of capital. Industrial capital and financial/speculative capital. The latter by its very nature leeches wealth without backing it with actual production/resources.
The industrial capital is what creates the production.
Industry asks for loans, so the financial sector (bank etc) is benefiting from all industry gains with the only pretext of 'we helped started it'. But the have monopoly on money anyway so its not like we have a choice, do we?
Try to understand beyond economics & financial literature, why would someone try to
alter the relationships in trade. Its about things greater than wealth and the economy.

> you want to instill

the people selling my country are all those in favor of free trade, cause they SELL our RESOURCES on the INTERNATIONAL MARKET, which usually means DOLLARS.

So we are stuck with dollars and no, we didn't have any say on this just like you guys dont have a say on your wars. When i was born already 40+ years contracts for extraction and export of our resources were signed. Do i have a say or choice in this?
And your govt has a lot to do with all of this.
And maaany many companies putting shitton of $ here and all my continent for 24h spam of advertising so we buy your useless consumer shit. Its mass brainwash, and i can't complain and must accept all this cause DUDE, PROFIT?

another btw.:
I just remembered one of mothers stories about the time she worked in a ship yard in communist poland. I think it was during the 80s, so you can imagine pretty much no food around, probably some state of emergency, queues everywhere, and probably every other eastern european cliche you can throw in for flavour. the 80s weren't the best of times for poland.

Anyway, they were supposed to finish a cargo load of paint for cuba, for which the polish state was supposed to get sugar in return. So some drunk fuck, and according to my mother they were all more or less drunk, because it was communism, so it's drinking and not working all the time, knocks down one of those barrels and it spills. There's some shitload of grain on the floor, and of course, being the proper poles they were, they all are like "kurwa", and open up another barrel: that fucker was loaded with sausages. Turns out, the fucking commies shipped out the food people were so desperate for to some island monkeys on the other end of the world for some worthless sugar, because communist fraternity demands people to starve.

anyway, barter won't protect you from corruption.

we/re having a crypto revolution instead.

no, but that couldve happened too if the trade was with $ not barter. Doesnt matter.
Thing is, with currency only one party is trading true value, the other is trading 'future value' or 'promise of value'. What happens in future can be either benefitial or detrimental to the party trading with currency.
With barter you trade real value for real value, on the spot and done with. No debts.

nah. just only allow people who pay taxes and aren't on welfare to vote.

there is no need for taxes. This is the reconciliation between liber/anarcho tards and those who recognize the need for a governing structure.
But it only works on an economy free from interest on money, aka usury, which these idealists refuse to do away with.

dude, but here's the thing man, you're trying to solve the problems governments creates with more government.

the people selling out whatever fucked up country you reside in, could only do so because there was a system in place that allowed them to do so: and now you are blaming the buyer, when it was you (your country) who sold it all.

now you might think it was just bad people, but besides the fact that 'bad' people are everywhere, don't you think that mistake, error, wrong judgement and whatnot, are inherent to human existence?

the same applies to corruption: people are corrupt. giving them power, gives power to those who take advantage of corruption. and with the absolute power government wield, you're not allowed to disenfranchise: you just don't get to not pay protection money.

by the way, I am not american, and I certainly do not believe in fiat currencies, but for the sake of the argument: when you sell for dollars, you can also buy for dollars. it's like modernized barter - just, that, of course the dollar is a inflationary scam, but that's another story, since, let's be honest: your government is probably indebted beyond belief - just like any other country, so there's actually no holding, and when it all goes down, we're all fucked anyway.

>i can't complain and must accept all this cause DUDE, PROFIT?

err, yes, if it's what people choose to do with their monies, who are you to complain? I too much rather see all those bums on the street invest the money they mooched of me into something that pays dividend so they get a stream of income they can reinvest and build up not only an existence for themselves, but new ways to make my ass more comfortable. yet they choose to be useless drunken garbage. oh, and the consumption and whatnot might actually make your country at least a little bit better, because it creates opportunity - which you do not have to understand, because you are not other people, but it's there.

that defeats the entire purpose of lending money.

Fuck paying taxes! It's theft

also, since, it just crossed my mind: you should actually be favouring the dollar, since your countries debt is most likely denominated in usd and when that sucker tanks, guess what else becomes less? right, your debt.

then not make the entire economy based on lending ???

>making it illegal to lend money between two consenting parties

into the helicopter you go

9/10. Pretty good shit.

yes shit was done by shit people, but NOT getting involved in the already shit infested corrupted structure and change something would accomplish what? yes, more shit infested corruption.
Corrupted people sold my country. It was their decision. But free trade allowed it, not regulation. By definition, regulation would've prevented this.

those drunks choose to be useless drunk garbage, cause they've been abandoned by the community, because this sense of community has been lost in favour of the individualistic, eternal chase of dem profits abose everything else, where naturally he who screws most the other rises the highest

ok, if involved parties can be regular citizens fine but me.

but loans of billions to my country from foreign banks where i have no fucking say cause all the politic parties are ok with it? tha fuck you on??

>But free trade allowed it, not regulation.

no. you sold it. you gave them fuckers the power to sell out your country. it's not the buyers fault.
and now you want to outlaw trading because you got burned. that's fucked beyond belief, man.
and while we're at it, regulation increases prices, meaning: you having already a shitty deal, you now want to introduce having even less money, which for all accounts will by no means improve your situation whatsoever, instead of, and here I'd like to remind you we're on a trading board, making the best of the freedom you have and start making good deals.

less access -> less of the good stuff -> less opportunity -> less growth -> less wealth -> your country being more of a shithole -> less access ...


>those drunks choose

I used to be one, until I chose not to be.

Lol

also there have been drunks throughout history: oh the community, always abandoned, never existing. the plight of individualism destroying nations like soviet russia and japan.
everything bad always has to be caused by the evil flavour of the day - or the jews, right?

it is central banks who allow all the other banks to run amok. You could have easily said the abolition of the fractional reserve system or central banks altogether is the solution. Instead you went full retard and blamed interest.

Don't make it illegal, just make it unenforcible by law.

Basically you only lend to people you trust, because they don't pay you back tough shit government won't do squat.
(The incentive to pay back is obviously to build a good reputation so that people will do more business with you)

the fractional reserve would never have existed without people being ok with usury in the first place, tard

i dont blame the end buyer, which most of you are, but those in the top which have severe influence on our matters.

i didn't give fuck anyone any power, i never voted in my life. Those here in the past screwed us, and now deals are done which are screwing us more. So we just allow those deals to continue selling all our resources away or stop them ?

if the people are okay with usury then it is not usury. The market sets interest rates. Not autists on Veeky Forums.

the drunk bums must get helping hand at least, if they refuse to change then they are left behind.
But total disregard makes things worse.

If, as you said in early comment, people are the true value. You must take care of your people first, then comes profit as priority.
This is what i mean with community, doesnt mean welfare state. More active, healthy people = more shit gets done

keep sucking rothschild cock

...

Don't forget, what allowed your govts to import millions of shitskin was them knowing they could be employed cheaply in your soil. Why pay Matt when Khalid does it cheaper? Its all about them profits, right?

>those in the top which have severe influence on our matters.

dude, by regulating trade you're not regulating the people at the top. you're regulating people who trade: that might be some store right around your corner, importing some wicked stuff, or the guy who sells it to him.

and this also applies for big deals between major players. the price of iron will inevitably influence the price of nails, which will influence the price of housing, which will influence the price of labour, which will influence the price of nails ...

I do not know what country you come from, but chances are, when your shit gets more expensive, something (probably a lot) in my country will as a result also increase in price. maybe it's just a fraction of a cent, but over time, I'm getting a bad deal, not just you.


>i didn't give fuck anyone any power

so you'd like to do the same to someone else? anyway,
I intentionally conflated you with your country for the sake of simplicity - and because I'm lazy.
But yes, you have been dealt a shitty hand, but instead of (I'm conflating again) making everything even more shitty, and possibly destroying any potential trust trading partners might have in you, find a way to profit.

There's this quarrel about milk subsidies in the EU - a part of it is, that the EU exports over produced cheap dried milk powder to africa. Now leftists around here bitch about this destroying african milk-farmers, which is does, kind of. But here's the thing: when you're there, and the market is flooded with top-quality milk powder sold below market value, you don't become a milk farmer, but start producing milk products with the cheap shit.

Now, of course, you are selling shit, and it's a little more complicated, but there's no way, you can not turn this into a profit: you have the buyer and the product at your doorstep.

heard of something called 'escalating'? how you went from gay marriages to trans bathrooms?

yeah usury escalates too, you just don't notice it until your next crash. Will be fun watching

>If, as you said in early comment, people are the true value.

How can I value someone who doesn't value himself? He's the person who knows himself best. When you're drinking, you don't like yourself. So, why should I?

>You must take care of your people first,

that they can do themselves. I value them making my ass comfortable, or me making theirs comfortable for money. Might sound egoistic, but in the end everyone's comfy as fuck. I like being social as a side effect. Altruism I only do when I see fit.

>More active, healthy people = more shit gets done

Very true. How about cultural values? Like "if you fuck yourself up, nobody likes you"?

you just don't get it, do you?

if there is NO regulation here, with zero restrain, people would buy 80% from China, rest from usa&europe. We would also make it extremely easy for that millenial family who inherited acres of land, to sell it to some foreigner.
So these countries we are buying from, are consolidating even more their industry, while forgetting about ours cause its not profitable yet?
The issue is about global centre of power. I want my country to be great, not some puppet to be bought and sold.

good now you are sounding reasonable. This type of mindset might work in your country, but not here, where the general not give a fuck if you dont give a fuck makes everything shittier, cause people are to dumbed with irrelevant nonsense to even notice the general decay of the basic pillars of society.

So the ship must be led by a captain, to prevent castaway. Not left to the will of the sea........

you don't get it: what others do with their property is none of your business. you interfering makes everything just worse, because you prohibit people from improving their situation, which as a side effect has your country becoming better.

you don't have to have a whatever crap you produce industry. When others can make it more cheap, it's dumb to make it yourself: you're wasting time and money. Instead find something you can do cheaper now that you don't have to give a crap about your countries national guano.

autarky is poverty. that's the story, it always has been. and besides, it's not even possible. all you end up with is fucking cabbage throughout the year and people still dying from malnutrition. or whatever the resource equivalent of that is.

your ideas are literally from the last century: they're not only outdated because of time or meme, but also because they are proven wrong.

> I want my country to be great

how about you start wanting being great yourself instead of wasting time and energy on some useless abstract construct and sane person would leave at an instance. what do you get from your country being great when you're still a play thing of people who don't give a shit about you?