Origin of Armenians

>Nope, blonde-haired blue-eyed "Nordid". I simply accept that phenotype pseudoscience has no place in the discussion of genetics.
How can something be pseudo-science if I base my knowledge on books written by literal professors?
Genetics are important, but they are to some point meaningless. They do not say where did a gene come from, or if they say then it is quite innacurate. What's more nobody cares about genes IRL. People judge you based on your race, whether it's main racial type or subtype. Nobody serious would discriminate you because you have a certain haplogroup or 1% Asian admixture, but a lot of people might hate you because of your appearance.

Genetical meme was made to make Europeans lose their Nordic pride. Now saying that Corded Ware people who had Nordic skulls is "pseudo-science", but a 10000000th innacurate theory on when did blue eyes developped which often doesn't even make sence is "scientific".

>How can something be pseudo-science if I base my knowledge on books written by literal professors?
Perhaps pseudoscience was the wrong word. My point was more about it being irrelevant to the discussion at hand, which is why Armenians don't genetically cluster with other Indo-Europeans.

>What's more nobody cares about genes IRL.
That doesn't mean we can't discuss it here. The OP question was about genetics, so we should stick to discussing genetics.

>Genetical meme was made to make Europeans lose their Nordic pride.
No

>Now saying that Corded Ware people who had Nordic skulls is "pseudo-science", but a 10000000th innacurate theory on when did blue eyes developped which often doesn't even make sence is "scientific".
I agree. But the discussion of phenotypes is literally irrelevant to 90% of the discussions we have on Veeky Forums about this sort of thing. There's nothing more annoying when you're in a thread discussing genetics and the Nordic spammer brings in irrelevant taxonomical shit.

>Perhaps pseudoscience was the wrong word. My point was more about it being irrelevant to the discussion at hand, which is why Armenians don't genetically cluster with other Indo-Europeans.
In other words: Indo-European migration was minor and even up to this day Armenians are predominantly Caucasians genetically. The probably main reason why they adopted the language of their invaders was a better diplomation with Persians and the Anatolians, and after some times also Greeks and Romans. This is why Armenian language itself is neither kentum or satem - it's an indo-european language influenced phonetically by many other indo-european languages for trade and diplomation.
>No
Yes, now even using the word "Negroid" is considered politically incorrect.
>irrelevant taxonomical shit.
Not irrelevant, because it explains why Armenians look diffrent from other Indo-Europeans, simply the migration of Nordic element was minor in comparison to for an example expansion of Italo-Celts.

>In other words: Indo-European migration was minor and even up to this day Armenians are predominantly Caucasians genetically.
Would this answer not suffice, then? Why bring in "Nordids" when it isn't necessary or related? Are you simply trying to provoke Meds, or are you obsessed with Nordicism?

>Yes, now even using the word "Negroid" is considered politically incorrect.
Exactly, it's not about stripping Europeans of their "Nordic pride", it's about general political correctness stifling the discussion of anything even vaguely related to race (unless it's about how niggers are "superior" of course)

>Not irrelevant, because it explains why Armenians look diffrent from other Indo-Europeans
But the question wasn't why they look different, it's why they cluster genetically with non-Indo-Europeans.

>amerindians speak Indo-European but they cluster genetically with non-Indo-Europeans.
Hmmm what kind of magic is this

Armenian women make my peepee hard.

> They are proto Jews.
Armenians are jews who followed a coin that rolled down the hill and ended inside a church

I want to ____ Anita Sarkeesian

fuck in the ass without condom

According to Eupedia they are only 30% R1b and 5% R1a. Anthropologists long time before genetics were invented were saying that the Armenoid racial type has not have much to do with Indo-Europeans, and now seems like they were right. However Nordic influence can be also seen in them as a minority. They are predominantly Caucasian people with J2 and G2a haplogroup predominance.

>Would this answer not suffice, then? Why bring in "Nordids" when it isn't necessary or related? Are you simply trying to provoke Meds, or are you obsessed with Nordicism?
Yes, with medish niggers like Dominigger it's much funnier to write on this forum.
>Exactly, it's not about stripping Europeans of their "Nordic pride", it's about general political correctness stifling the discussion of anything even vaguely related to race (unless it's about how niggers are "superior" of course)
Nordic race also gets insulted more and more. Not a long time ago (((they))) made a theory on how having a narrow face means you are a beta, now (((they))) try to force meme that blond hair are unattractive to women... This also correlates with anti-Nordic bullshit spread by mediterreneans like "HURR DURR ROMAN EMPIRE WUZ 100% DARK-EYED"
>But the question wasn't why they look different, it's why they cluster genetically with non-Indo-Europeans.
They look diffrent because they don't cluster, or rather don't have much connection to Indo-Europeans. They are more Indo-Europeanized than Indo-European, even their language looks more like a mixed IE speak created for diplomacy with neighbours.

>anti-Nordic bullshit spread by mediterreneans like "HURR DURR ROMAN EMPIRE WUZ 100% DARK-EYED"
Lol, another shit-nordic warrior from any german barbarian tribe

Another butthurt barely-white trash. The Nordic man was ruling the Roman Empire, and that's a fact. You can either get over it or kill yourself.

>Anthropologists long time before genetics were invented were saying that the Armenoid racial type has not have much to do with Indo-Europeans, and now seems like they were right.
Still irrelevant. He wasn't asking about phenotypes, he was asking about genetic clustering.

>Nordic race also gets insulted more and more. Not a long time ago (((they))) made a theory on how having a narrow face means you are a beta, now (((they))) try to force meme that blond hair are unattractive to women... This also correlates with anti-Nordic bullshit spread by mediterreneans like "HURR DURR ROMAN EMPIRE WUZ 100% DARK-EYED"
True, but this is just generic anti-White sentiment with an amphasis on light features because they're more "uniquely White". Again, you really don't need to bring anthroautism terms into this. When the average shitskin or self-hating White insults blonde hair, it's not because they hate "Nordics", it's because they hate Whites.

>They look diffrent because they don't cluster
Irrelevant. He wanted to know WHY they don't cluster.

>27BC-192AD
ROMANZ WUZ 100% WHITE
If you are support all nordids, can you say that some nordic guy from Afghnistan closer to you than any black-haired english man?

>having a narrow face means you are a beta,
It does. Wide face means more testosterone.
>that blond hair are unattractive to women..
It's not attractive. Women tend to go for dark-haired and blue-eyed men, not for feminine blonde boys.

Pic related, your Nordids.The Asian guy has the most testosterone from them all. I bet they didn't have any morning wood for years.

Who's who? If I were to guess which one had the most testosterone just by looking at them, I would have said #3 followed by #2, #4 and #1

>Still irrelevant. He wasn't asking about phenotypes, he was asking about genetic clustering.
Relevant to "le anthropology is pseudo-science" meme.
>When the average shitskin or self-hating White insults blonde hair, it's not because they hate "Nordics", it's because they hate Whites.
Yes, and the Nordic race is considered the "whitest" of them all.
>Irrelevant. He wanted to know WHY they don't cluster.
I wrote that above a few times.
In racial sence yes. I think he is even more European than many "Europeans" of today.
Both of these memes were wrong, facial index has nothing to do with testosterone it's a genetical trait, and blond hair being "unattractive" is just a result of modern political correctness, even if you take a fast look into our culture you can notice that Nordics had been nearly always considered attractive and the ideal. Even in all folk tales the Blond woman is usually the good one, same with a Blond man who is a strong one.

>Both of these memes were wrong, facial index has nothing to do with testosterone it's a genetical trait, and blond hair being "unattractive" is just a result of modern political correctness, even if you take a fast look into our culture you can notice that Nordics had been nearly always considered attractive and the ideal. Even in all folk tales the Blond woman is usually the good one, same with a Blond man who is a strong one.

dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2801971/people-broad-faces-dominant-higher-amounts-testosterone.html

anabolicmen.com/signs-of-high-testosterone/

sandrarose.com/2016/06/higher-testosterone-levels-leads-to-manly-faces/

forbes.com/sites/zhanavrangalova/2017/09/27/what-the-shape-of-your-face-says-about-your-sex-drive/#5b872678564f

Explain why taking testosterone/steroids makes your face and jaw wider. Protip, you can't.

You're absolutely detached from reality with your Nordid fantasies. I know you're a Polack because you said so, you should know that majority of Polacks have wide, square heads, not some Aisto Nordid faggot faces.

>I wrote that above a few times.
And? Bringing phenotypes into the discussion was still unecessary.

The reason why Armenians do not genetically cluster with other Indo-Europeans is because Indo-European migration to the region was minor and was a case of elite domination rather than population replacement. Bringing the Nordic phenotype into the discussion was completely unecessary.

>Explain why taking testosterone/steroids makes your face and jaw wider. Protip, you can't.
Because narrow-faced people are the ones who live in civilization (they created), not in a fucking jungle. But if the Nordic men returned to pre-civilization life they would have a higher testosterone as well. Also how can you explain that women with lower facial index don't have more testosterone than males with high facial index?
This is cultural marxist bulshit, made in two goals. First to insult the Caucasoid (non even Nordid in particular because Mediterreneans also have progressive narrow faces), second, against Caucasoid-created civilization.
>I know you're a Polack because you said so, you should know that majority of Polacks have wide, square heads, not some Aisto Nordid faggot faces.
Unfortunetaly yes, even if around the year 1000 Poles were nearly all dolichocephalic Nordics. Fortunetaly, I see more and more, especially children/youngsters, with long occiputs and progressive features, which means that Poland might be within some decades re-nordicized to a high degree. This is my hope, because I know that the Nordic race is the purest Indo-European phenotype, and the one considered the most ideal of them all, and the most attractive as well unlike the marxist SJWs will tell you.
>Aisto Nordid
I prefer Corded Nordids. They are more similiar to the original Aryans.

Question - would you rather your daughter marry a long-skulled, progressive and narrow-faced Negroid, or a broad-skulled, robust and wide-faced swarthy Caucasoid?

>the Nordic race is the purest Indo-European phenotype
Is that why it is more I1 than R1a or R1b?

There is no such thing as "progressive Negroid".
Ancient Corded Ware people were both Nordic and overwhelmingly R1a. Also all Nordic countries have more R1a + R1b than I1.

So they mixed Gauls and Slavs?
Talk about mongrels.

Armenia has been around for millennia and reached modern day Turkey and Syria. They were in contact with non-IE speakers for centuries. What do you think happened?

Also they did not mix with the locals in Europe too. The IE invasions did not occupy and empty land. There were people there that mixed with the IE invaders

>According to Eupedia they are only 30% R1b and 5% R1a

>Y chromosome haplotypes

You realize that your Y chromosome haplotype comes from one male ancestor. Thus a person could have had one R1b great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather but mixed with Mongols or something and end up as R1b but be nearly 100% Asian

>Nordic race also gets insulted more and more. Not a long time ago (((they))) made a theory on how having a narrow face means you are a beta, now (((they))) try to force meme that blond hair are unattractive to women... This also correlates with anti-Nordic bullshit spread by mediterreneans like "HURR DURR ROMAN EMPIRE WUZ 100% DARK-EYED"
You sound like a man with a big inferiority complex.

>You realize that your Y chromosome haplotype comes from one male ancestor.
You realize that the Nordic Indo-European migrations everywhere reduced the pre-IE y-DNA to an extreme degree, but in Armenia it didn't happen?
Am I Inferior to what?

Suetonius also says that Augustus had a unibrow. Real Nordic if you ask me.

Otho was Etruscan which is the definition of NOT being Nordic

Also I think you fail to mention
>Septimus Severus (Punic)
>Geta & Caracalla (Punic + Syrian)
>Elagalabus (Syrian)
>Alexander Severus (Syrian)
>Philip the Arab (Syrian)
>Aemilianus (Moor)
>Aurelian (possibly Illyrian )

>Bringing the Nordic phenotype into the discussion was completely unecessary.
Did the IE bring the "Nordic" phenotype? I don't think so, look at where the IE invaded all over the world. Why is it that the Germans are notably blonde and blue eyed? Even the ancient Greeks and Romans noticed that. There was an emperor that dyed Gaul's hair blonde to triumph them as Germans, and Gauls and Germans were in contact with each other for a long time.

So I would argue that "Nordic" phenotype already existed in Europe and it blended with IEs in modern day Germany. We already know blue eyes existed in Europe before the IE invasions.

>Suetonius also says that Augustus had a unibrow. Real Nordic if you ask me.
Nordic with Alpine influence. Still far from being "Mediterrenean".
>Suetonius also says that Augustus had a unibrow. Real Nordic if you ask me.
There were no Etruscans anymore in his area, you are talking bullshit. He was Italic.
>Also I think you fail to mention
This chart includes only Italic Roman Emperors.

>This chart includes only Italic Roman Emperors.
Why is Hadrian and Trajan on this list then?

>You realize that the Nordic Indo-European migrations everywhere reduced the pre-IE y-DNA to an extreme degree, but in Armenia it didn't happen?
Yeah it's almost like there is very little variation of Y chromosome haplotypes in Europe. Oh wait

>Etruscans
Did they disappear? I'm pretty sure the Etruscans are still around but speak Italian

>Am I Inferior to what?
(((you know)))
> ARYAN MASTER RACE
>DA JOOS CONTROL THE WORLD
what is it? Wouldn't the master race control the world?

There is. The vast majorit of Europe is predominantly R1. What's your point?

>tfw this thread is the first time you see an actual nordic we wuz romans dude spew his bs

Shits magical

They didn't. But in that period they were extinct as an ethno-cultural group.
I hate the jews as our enemies, I'm not inferior to them. They got their position because we let them to, it's our, White volk's fault.

>They didn't. But in that period they were extinct as an ethno-cultural group.

>Be indigenous European (non NORDIC for you numnuts)
>Get conquered by IE
>Start to speak IE
> ?????
>100% PURE NORDIC GENES WE WUZ IMPERATOR AN SHEET

>Be indigenous European
Being Neolithic immigrant farmer group is far from being "indigenous European". They were J2 middle-eastern mediterrenean volk which migrated to Italy from the Near East.

A vast majority would be something like 80% but R1 exists about 40-60% for more populations in Europe.

Which means that there were a lot of people (non IE) in Europe before the IE invasions. Obviously they didn't kill all the men.

There is no such thing as a pure "nordic" or "aryan" etc. They all mixed with local folks from German to India. It's evident in genetics and linguistics.

>Being Neolithic immigrant farmer group is far from being "indigenous European". They were J2 middle-eastern mediterrenean volk which migrated to Italy from the Near East.
So you proved my point. Otho was not Nordic

>indigenous European

>implying there are any real idigenous Europeans to begin with

For much of countries it is true. And R1 is almost everywhere the dominant haplogroup.
We dunno as there was no source at his pigmentation.
Upper Palaeolithic Cro-Magnon race is pretty much "indigenous", as they were first here. I1 and I2 volks.

You forgot Macrinus (Berber)

No sweety we Sardinians have little J2

He was talking specifically about Etruscans

>volks.
Imagine being this much of a larper that you even use German words to describe things.

The Etruscans

>And R1 is almost everywhere the dominant haplogroup.
So what. Again Y chromosome haplotypes are not informative for the ancestry compositions of individuals. You need to consider the remaining 3 billion base pairs ( times 2 because diploid individuals)

Hitler was retarded to think the Germans were a "pure" Ayran race. They mixed with locals and it's evident in the language (and genetics from ancient genomes). A parsimonious explanation of Grimm's Law is that a group of non IE speakers were learning the language. Also a lot of irregular verbs in Germanic languages do not have an obvious IE root, but are (coincidentally maybe) similar to Semitic verb conjugations.

I1 and I2 is "Nordic" but not "Aryan"

Kinda like Augustus's unibrow if you ask me

Augustus was Nordic, you imbecile

Oh right I keep forgetting :^)

Armenians have no natural borders with the Middle east but with Europe they have them everywhere. They probaply mixed with Middle east people.

I thought Finns meme'd themselves to be genetically different khans from most Europeans.

Y-DNA helps us to track down migrations. In case of the Nordic race, we know it was developped by R1 people because of skulls we find from R1 cultures like Corded Ware.

I1 and I2 is not originally Nordic. They can be Nordic now because of admixing with R1 people, but were originally of Cro-Magnon facial types like "Bruenn" and "Borreby". Modern mixed Nordic type of Northern Norway called "Tronder" is a result of mix of these Cro-Magnons with Nordics. This phenotype is also quite frequent in Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Baltic States, British Isles, everywhere where Cro-Magnon population mixed with Nordics.

>n case of the Nordic race, we know it was developped by R1 people because of skulls we find from R1 cultures like Corded Ware.
Ok so what about R1 peoples in Africa. Are they Nordic????

This is why Y-haplotypes are retarded for determining race. Blacks in the US probably have a lot of R1 from Europe because of relations between slave owners but does that make them Nordic?

Seutonius says Julius Caesar was brown haired and dark brown eyed

Nordic as fuck if you ask me

>Ok so what about R1 peoples in Africa. Are they Nordic????
No, but they ancestors might have been either Nordids or dark pigmented Irano-Afghan Mediterrenans. Their subclade is quite tricky and mysterious.
But we know that at leat R1-M173 and R1-M269 people were Nordics because of skulls and pigmentation info we found about them.

>No, but they ancestors might have been either Nordids or dark pigmented Irano-Afghan Mediterrenans. Their subclade is quite tricky and mysterious
this is the funniest thing I read in a while

Keep up the ignorance :)

Because they're surrounded by LARPers

>I1 and I2 is "Nordic" but not "Aryan"

They are not nordic, specially I2, they have the same origin as J haplogroup, they probably originally looked like Sardinians

What's your point?

Is it not established that they were blue-eyed, dark-haired and dark-skinned?

so white?

No they were originally from Papua New Guinea.

Mediterranean white

>hungarians speak magyar but cluster genetically with germans and slavs
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Not the same thing and you know it

wow who would have guessed that language isn't necessarily related to blood

Armenians don't understand the difference. They think they're more related to Europeans

Armenians are gypsy tier

Not so fast turk.

>small group of Indo-European Nordids
PIE weren't Nordid but Alpine

Nordids are language-shifting natives

>PIE weren't Nordid but Alpine
Yea... these skulls are 100% Alpine, right?
youtube.com/watch?v=JIE6Y7s1AOw

Yamna men were purely Alpine, Long-skull is an ENF feature

Yamnaya was dolichocephalic, but they had broad faces. So yeah they weren't Nordic but they weren't Alpine either.

>Yamnaya was dolichocephalic,
Wrong

"Many anthropological groups participated in the formation of local Yamnaya population (Shevchenko 1986). In general, the Yamnaya population is characterized by brachycephalic skulls with a low and orthognathic face, low eye-sockets"
-N. I. Shishlina - 2008

Brachycephalic = Steppe Blood
Dolichocephalic = ENF Blood

Yamna were not even PIE, so it's not relevant. They were admixed with Caucasian population. Also all Cordeds, Sintashta, et cetera were extremely dolichocephalic.

I searched your quote and I only found one instance of it, and it was attributed to a different person from a different year. And other studies exist that say Yamnaya were dolichocephalic.

I would be prepared to concede that they were mixed, but there's a lack of evidence to suggest that brachycephals were dominant.

>Yamna were not even PIE
It is widely accepted by archelogists that they are the PIE

>Caucasian population
They are dolichocephalic not brachycephalic

>Also all Cordeds, Sintashta, et cetera were extremely dolichocephalic
All are late "IE" cultures and most were mainly compozed of language shifters, only the ruling class was IE and greatly mongrelized

Dominican isn't a Med, he's a crazy new world mutt who thinks everyone is german, but he is a pure-blooded Roman or something like that.

>t. didn't search at all

I got literally one result for the second quote "In general ..." and it was attributed to Khokhlov 2000, not N.I. Shishlina 2008.

>It is widely accepted by archelogists that they are the PIE
Genetic tests imply they were more likely late indo-european culture. They had only R1b-Z2103 mutation, which is very rare in Europe and extremely prelevant in Anatolia and Caucasus.
>They are dolichocephalic not brachycephalic
Incorrect. Georgians, Armenians, Azeri, Chechens, Ossetes, et cetera are all predominantly brachycephalic. Having a short head is a very good adaption to mountains.
>All are late "IE" cultures and most were mainly compozed of language shifters
Wrong, they were nothing like the pre-IE people. Corded Ware was like 80% "Indo-European" and 20% else.

Where do gypsies cluster?

Do you see "Ro" Between Turkish and Pathan? That's where they cluster.