Which Hitchens brother is better?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

Which Hitchens brother is better?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

the alive one

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@lostmypassword
Both are top tier for different reasons.
Christopher is every young edge lord's first redpill.
Peter is who you admire more later in life.

FastChef
FastChef

One is a drug addicted autist who unironically called himself a trotskyist. The other one is still alive and redpilled enough to understand that religion is a major foundation for society

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@lostmypassword
Christopher

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

The one who didn't believe in magical skydaddy

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

Peter is pretty much every internet teens dream, minus his view on Christianity.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@lostmypassword
Not neoliberal though.

Techpill
Techpill

@Poker_Star
Chris was for Iraq, Peter is Against.

Methnerd
Methnerd

Christopher:
Neo-con who pretended he was a socialist
Drinks and chain smokes all his life till he dies of cancer
Le new atheism XD
moral degenerate

Peter:
Tried communism, realized it didn't work and changed his ways
Against drugs of all kind and still completely healthy
Logically founded belief in God
Strong moral values

Seems pretty obvious to me

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@lostmypassword
The one who didn't die early as a miserable chain-smoking alcoholic.

The Hitchens are a good case study of what happens when you are a hedonistic atheist versus a religious family man.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Techpill
That's not really anything to do with neo-liberalism.

FastChef
FastChef

Lawful good Hitchens. Chaotic neutral hitchens is inferior.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@lostmypassword
Christopher was objectively the more successful and skilled write, journalist and public speaker. The rest comes down to subjective personal opinions on their private lives and which one you agree with most.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Methnerd
Logically founded belief in God

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Illusionz
Maybe more skilled, but in what definition of success? Success to me doesn't involve dying of preventable cancer in your 60s because you resort to terrible habits due to how miserable your life is.

massdebater
massdebater

@Spazyfool
existence of god is fundamentally unknowable, making belief a choice.
in that case, why not choose the belief that there is justice here and thereafter, that what you do in your life ultimately has a higher purpose and that the good are saved and the wicked are punished?

TreeEater
TreeEater

@viagrandad
what definition of success?
I said the more successful writer, journalist and public speaker, which has absolutely nothing to do with dying from cancer due to your personal habits.

Obviously success as a writer is a hard thing to measure but, for example, any one of Christopher's more successful books has probably outsold every single one of Peter's books put together.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@massdebater
The existence of the tooth fairy is just as unknowable, making belief a choice.
In that case, why not believe in a good tooth market, that what you do with your teeth has a higher purpose and that the teeth are valued and the plaque punished?
It's not even a far-fetched comparison, and one of the oldest ones in the book.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@lostmypassword
The one not in hell.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@massdebater
To God, not knowing he exists is inexcusable.

Evilember
Evilember

@Sharpcharm
when your only refutation is playing dumb

SniperGod
SniperGod

@lostmypassword
Christopher
Influental author, journalist

Peter
A niche name, books left unsold
But hey at least he's still alive, that really matters when determining their value decades from now

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@Evilember
It's the exact same thing. You can't prove or disprove God's existence - and the same goes for insert mythological creature here.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@massdebater
You can't pick and choose beliefs. What nonsense is this. Something is either convincing to you for one reason or another or it isn't. The logical position derived from your premise would be agnosticism, not theism.

Mind you, I don't give a fuck about Hitchens' or anyone's beliefs. I just don't like you abusing the term "logic".

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Evilember
He wasn't playing dumb, he was telling you that your own premise opens the floodgates for an infinite number of unprovable propositions, even mutually exclusive ones. That's not faux stupidity, that's a problem in your line of reasoning.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@massdebater
the good are saved and the wicked are punished
expect that's not what Christianity is about.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@Nojokur
One of its many failings.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@SniperGod
Christopher's beliefs
Leads to a degenerate, unfulfilling, and harmful lifestyle ultimately resulting in dying of cancer at 61

Peter's beliefs
Leads to a happy and fulfilling life which he gets to experience and enjoy

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Garbage Can Lid
Leads to a happy and fulfilling life
He spends most of his days on Twitter.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Garbage Can Lid
happiness is more important than being meaningful
Maybe if you're a shallow idiot.

askme
askme

They're both great for different reasons.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Garbage Can Lid
Except Peter seems thoroughly miserable most of the time, in fact (and sometimes I think it is some sort of character act) his entire his entire public persona is based on being miserable and pessimistic and he will probably only get 20 years or so extra in life, which he will spend being as butthurt as possible.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@lostmypassword
the christopher hitchens documentary is really great.
really well narrated by the man himself.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@TurtleCat
But we know for a fact those mythological creatures are just that, myth. We know the tooth fairy isn't real, we don't know if God isn't real.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@Playboyize
We know the tooth fairy isn't real
How do you know that?

Firespawn
Firespawn

@BlogWobbles
Did you even read what was said? We don't have enough evidence to prove or disprove God, so it comes down to make a choice: the atheist belief, or the theist belief.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Burnblaze
We know that parents are really the ones putting the money under the pillow. And our parents tell us this once we get older.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Firespawn
We don't have any evidence to disprove The Force is real either.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@LuckyDusty
Maybe the real tooth fairy just forsake you and your parents.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@CouchChiller
We know the force is a fictional invention by George Lucas, not comparable

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@BinaryMan
Oh I see, you don't have an actual argument so you just resort to playing dumb.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@GoogleCat
We know Yahweh is a fictional invention by Jews.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Fuzzy_Logic
How do you know that? Prove it

Illusionz
Illusionz

@StrangeWizard
So you have no evidence then to disprove the tooth fairy? I think we can safely say your afairyism is just a belief.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@LuckyDusty
What if the Tooth fairy subconsciously makes our parents put money below our pillows?

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Illusionz
Yes I do, we know for a fact that it's really adults who put money under the kids pillow, not a fairy. Please go back to r/atheism

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Stupidasole
Prove to me that The Force was a literary invention and that Lucas wasn't merely subconsciously inspired by it.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Lunatick
I'm not seeing any evidence offered here.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Crazy_Nice
Why dodge my question?
@Boy_vs_Girl
Well then you're being willfully ignorant because I've provided it

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@w8t4u
Why dodge my question?
You dodged mine.

Well then you're being willfully ignorant because I've provided it
You providing a personal anecdote that your parents told you something is in no sense of the word proof that an entity does not exist.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@kizzmybutt
You dodged mine
You dodged mine first and replied with another question to avoid answering, Why? Because you couldn't actually prove it?

You providing a personal anecdote that your parents told you something
1.Not just my parents, have yours not told you yet?
2. The whole point of the tooth fairy is the she leaves money under the pillows of children, but we all know that it's really adults that do that. I don't understand why you can't comprehend that

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@SniperGod
You're assuming the toothtroll don't make parents lie about their role in leaving money below the pillow.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@GoogleCat
So what are you saying? You believe the tooth fairy is real? There's video evidence of parents leaving the money under their kids pillows.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@SniperGod
You dodged mine first and replied with another question to avoid answering
You still haven't provided any evidence The Force isn't real. Are you starting to work out how this burden of proof thing works yet?

The whole point of the tooth fairy is the she leaves money under the pillows of children, but we all know that it's really adults that do that
You know your parents told you that. You don't know that, like the interdimensional being she is, that she just couldn't be arsed with your family any more and only gives money to kids on another planet, now, she used to give money to kids on Earth.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@Need_TLC
this

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Raving_Cute
You still haven't provided any evidence The Force isn't real. Are you starting to work out how this burden of proof thing works yet?
Ahh, so you're still avoiding my question. Why do you claim things you can't prove?

You know your parents told you that. You don't know that, like the interdimensional being she is, that she just couldn't be arsed with your family any more and only gives money to kids on another planet, now, she used to give money to kids on Earth.
Playing dumb isn't an argument, if you don't have a point, why even respond?

Bidwell
Bidwell

As far as writing goes (i.e. their careers) Christopher was so far ahead of Peter it's not even funny.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Garbage Can Lid

Leads to a happy and fulfilling life which he gets to experience and enjoy

I find it hard to believe that man enjoys anything.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@w8t4u
Ahh, so you're still avoiding my question
Nope.

Playing dumb isn't an argument
You're starting to sound less religious by the second.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@TreeEater
Nope
Yes, you completely dodged it. Pretty typical of atheists who make claims like that

JunkTop
JunkTop

@lostmypassword
Christopher is a cringe level fedora asking "if God made the universe, THEN WHO MADE GOD? CHECKMATE, THEISTS!"

He really is.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@eGremlin
You still aren't providing me any evidence for your Aforcist and Afairyist religious beliefs. It's almost like you can't disprove them to my satisfaction.

Illusionz
Illusionz

@Fuzzy_Logic
Fairly exhaustive analyses of mitochondria have been done, and none demonstrate the mitochondria effect its host in ways commensurable with "The Force", a fictional energy invented by a goober in some overhyped sci-fi movies.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@JunkTop
that's a legit question.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Fuzzy_Logic
I suppose I can't since you ignore whatever I post so you can cling to your irrational worldview

farquit
farquit

@Illusionz
just because humans can't measure it it isn't there

askme
askme

@massdebater
That's not logic.

likme
likme

@Garbage Can Lid
How do you know Christopher's life was unfulfilling? He's remembered now as a famous journalist, writer, and rhetorician. You don't have to be Nietzsche to see where someone could find that fulfilling.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@MPmaster
I suppose I can't since you ignore whatever I post so you can cling to your irrational worldview

Welcome to my world. Pic related.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@MPmaster
The point is that you cannot know for sure that mythological creatures aren't real. You can't disprove any thesis that says 'X is real.' Pragmatically, though, we can say that they aren't real 'coz there's no evidence.
The same goes for God. We can't know for sure that he's not real. But we can still be pragmatic and say he's not real because we lack evidence.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Playboyize
@LuckyDusty
@Evilember
you got btfo hard

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

is it just me or does it seem like Peter just says the opposite of whatever Chris says

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

Like it's even a question

Inmate
Inmate

@massdebater
why not knowingly delude yourself so you feel better

pahahaha

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Booteefool
If you think so, you're as idiotic as he is. Seriously.

You've never heard God is an eternal, uncreated being. Ever.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@farquit
It's real to me, dammit.

Firespawn
Firespawn

@likme
By his own worldview, nothing matters and there is no ultimate meaning but what you contrive for yourself while you are alive.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Firespawn
You are not a tool in the hands of a being greater than you
Oh, woe is me. How horrible.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@StonedTime
samefagging this hard

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@Firespawn
that's not much different from Christianity

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Deadlyinx
not him, just someone who loves to laugh :)

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@LuckyDusty
But you CAN know. We know the force isn't real because we know the guy who invented it as a fictional concept. We know there's no tooth fairy because it's just adults who put money under kids pillows. But we can't know if God isn't real, and since there's no evidence that disproves the existence of God, we have to make a choice. The atheist belief, or the theist belief

Booteefool
Booteefool

@idontknow
NEETs who will never marry
But this is the ideal state of being. All history up to this point has been for the sole purpose of enabling a glorious lifestyle completely occupied with asinine distractions and mindless pleasure.

farquit
farquit

@Firespawn
He lived his life how he wished.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@Booteefool
Alright mate?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@AwesomeTucker
No, but you are.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@lostmypassword
Deanoposting in Veeky Forums

What a time to be alive

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Deadlyinx
Nah.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@massdebater
I don't get it. Why is the existence of a god the one unreasonable premise otherwise reasonable people are unwilling to even consider seriously challenging? Most of them don't really even sincerely believe in heaven or their seventy-two virgins or whatever. Isn't it more beautiful to think that all this cool shit around us happened by chance and by choice of our own peers than to think some angry wizards on a tall mountain made it all by playing with themselves?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@SniperWish
I believe that religion is an intrinsic part of human consciousness, because no living thing shaped by evolution would willingly accept the idea of death.

It's a way to reconcile

life is all that matters
you will inevitably die

Without going insane.

Inmate
Inmate

Obviously the one who agrees with me.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@massdebater
eh, why not believe it? couldn't hurt.
"logically founded"

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@GoogleCat
That doesn't make it any less likely to be real.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@Inmate
That's not obviously true to all of us at all, speak for yourself. I know it might boggle your mind but I enjoy reading brilliant prose and arguments from someone that disagrees with me more than I enjoy shit prose and half-baked 'arguments' from someone that 'agrees' with me.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

Reminder to this thread that Aristotle proved the existence of a First Mover, aka a creator God unbound by the laws of our universe, more than 2,000 years ago.

Ergo, there is a greater reality than our own, greater than physical reality, and you cannot deny it.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@massdebater
fundamentally unknowable
sesquipedalian loquaciousness at its finest

Lunatick
Lunatick

@cum2soon

You just want to be reinforced in beliefs you secretly believe to be true, while professing the opposite beliefs to other people in an attempt to aggravate them and make yourself appear to be edgy or cool.

Kys, faggot. I have you figured out.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Stupidasole
Cool, imma become a deist then. Being a gnostic sounds cool too, but I'm not a big fan of secret clubs

farquit
farquit

@haveahappyday
Yes it does you retard, the man who invented it has stated its fake

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Lunatick
Actually I just want to challenge myself constantly with the best evidence and arguments while acknowledging I must have some biases and challenging those as well, if I can.

Stop being such a whiney little butthurt bitch.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@BunnyJinx
Isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Stupidasole
My question is not the idea of the concept of a creator. My question why is everyone sure that THEIR specific version of the creator is the real one? One that actively gives a shit about their lives? That is the part that comes across as wishful thinking.

WebTool
WebTool

@DeathDog
Yeah, but it's pretty good at creating another generation of humans.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@WebTool
Creating another generation isn't hard if you're crazy enough to be a little forceful.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@farquit
And deeply regrets it now. Deeply.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@farquit
Whoever shall find his life shall lose it;
whoever loses his life for my sake, shall find life everlasting.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@BinaryMan
Pretty sure you can't regret shit when you're dead.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@AwesomeTucker
Nor are you adopted by him into his family, with all that entails.

Woe is you indeed.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@PackManBrainlure
Except exactly the opposite.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@JunkTop

So you're saying i should die killing others in the name of God? Because Jesus sounds like he's giving me the ok there.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@SniperWish
It's like denying you're alive right now. It's just that level of stupid.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Crazy_Nice
Both are satanic secret clubs.

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Fuzzy_Logic
Because of the prophecies, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@PurpleCharger
Pretty sure you can't skip the afterlife by not believing in it.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@New_Cliche
Yes, demonstrate your piss poor ability to understand the simplest of bible verses.

Live for yourself, and pay the price of it in hellfire. Be saved, and live your life in bliss.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Supergrass
But I'm a Hindu, that means nothing to me.

@Fried_Sushi
Well we believe that that's not how it works, you don't get to leave this place until your spirit has worked itself out. No matter how many lives it takes.

Methshot
Methshot

@Garbage Can Lid
You think too simply. Reality is that which is eternal and unreality, or illusion, is that which is temporary. Note that illusion does exist, but it is unreal in the sense that it's not eternal. Someone may object - if I smash my head into a wall, the pain I feel is very real. How can it not be real? But if seen in the light of eternity it is not real. Illusion exists, but the reason it is not considered real is because it is not eternal. It's like a dream. A dream happens, but when we wake up, we understand it was not real. Life in a material body is like that - dream-like. We'll realize that, if not before, then at the time of death.

So reality and illusion is defined by time. One is eternal the other is temporary. And if you think about it, it makes sense. Anything seen in the light of eternity will be manifested for such a short time, that it is as if it didn't really happen.
Brahma, the god of creation, is said to live as long as the universe lasts - which is calculated to be 311 trillion solar years. So if you live for such an unfathomable length of time, then imagine what a person's life-span on earth of, say, 80 years must look like. I don't even live for a second from Brahma's point of view. How real would a person be to you if he existed for only a second? Think about it.

If you take 80 years out of 311 trillion years it is such a miniscule portion of time, that for all practical purposes it might as well not have happened. But then, if you take Brahma's lifespan and compare it to eternal time, it is just as little. However long time is taken out of eternal time, it will still amount to nothing. The duration of the universe will make a lifespan on earth seem completely insignificant, and the cosmic time of millions, billions, and trillions of years seem totally inconsequential and insignificant from the point of view of eternal time. So from the point of view of eternity, anything that is not eternal is but an illusory glimpse.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Spamalot
@Methshot

Thank you for your insight bitch lasagna.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@Firespawn
We don't have enough evidence to prove or disprove God
Spoken like someone who's never read a single piece of philosophy/theology

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@BinaryMan
He doesn't regret anything because he's gone.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@BunnyJinx
Existential dread is a perfectly valid reason to consciously cling to an unreasonable premise, but to try and publicly assert its reasonableness is to unfairly impose on others who might be able to resign themselves to death, as well as essentially to invite that so precious delusion to be challenged and shaken by those same people. We all have unreasonable notions we let ourselves believe for comfort, but the smartest thing to do with those beliefs is generally to keep them to ourselves.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Methnerd
logically founded belief in god
No such thing. It’s called faith for a reason.

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