Why it didn't become an empire? Is it poles fault?

Why it didn't become an empire? Is it poles fault?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novgorod_Republic#Fall_of_the_Republic
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palemonids
twitter.com/AnonBabble

it was a clusterfuck like the "holy" "roman" "empire", they attempted to centralize it with a meme democratic system, however the nobles would only accept it if they had this crippling right to veto law which made it easily corruptible by foreigners

You're talking about Commonwealth. This is Grand Duchy of Lithuania (note the lack of Polish lands)

Yes, it was thanks to (((poolack))) subversion.

Kraut autism, Russians and greedy H*bsburgs

How did Habsburgs influence Lithuania? By that time they were only rulers of Hre, and they sent Lithuanian Grand duke crown which later, according to some historians, poles stole on the way.

My bad, I thought you were talking about Poland-Lithuania in general

I mean, it had all the prerequisites for the empire par the kingdom title. Most fertile land in Europe, made Germans that attacked them their vassals, had influential families (Radvilos - influential in Prussia, Russia, Poland. Jogailaičiai - kings of Poland, Hungary, Bohemia), many of the nobles were also Reichsfürst of Hre, great leader, flourishing cities, multicultural and tolerant society (incorporated most baltic tribes, Russians, Germans, Jews, Poles, tatars, Karaims), had tolerance of all religions (Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Judaism, Islam). One of the biggest trade centers of North-eastern and Eastern Europe.

So my question is why it didn't didn't become powerhouse? Is it lack of centralization due to poles stealing their crown, ruling class being a minority in their own country, or not having their own written language (they used Ruthenian and Latin).

It was a weak state where minority ruled over majority that wanted to join their orthodox brothers in Moscow. It would fall apart or get swallowed by Teutons and Moscow if not for Poland. False.

Nah, Commonwealth was a disaster, especially for Lithuanians from a get go. That's why few of the most influential Lithuanian noble families tried to bail and make an union with Sweden instead.

But Ukrainians regards Gdl times as golden ages, why would they want to join piss poor Muscowy rather than continue enjoying kinda western type country? Also, I think with better centralization, it would be feasible to keep ruling majority with minority, just look at Habsburg empire.

The only problem is that I can think of is that Lithuanians had completely different language than the rest of the lands (baltic instead of slavic), but still, it worked out for Habsburgs.

Source: my ass. I don't understand Lithuanians. PLC is the only relevant part of history you have, yet you proceed to shit on it.

Lithuanians didn't even speak Lithuanian but Ruthenian, and the so called "Lithuanian" nobles polonised themselves and spoke Polish and used Latin.

Is that american hour or are you all retarded?

Well, the Poles gained a lot more from it than Lithuanians. Also, I'm not Lithuanian, I'm of Litvak , Bavarian and French descent, so I'm neutral at this. Though as Litvak, Lithuanians treated jews better than Poles, that's why in 1918 Jews fought for Lithuania, not Poland.

They spoke Lithuanian, they only wrote Ruthenian and Latin as Lithuanian language weren't written one back then. Duke Vytautas latin letters proves that, saying that Ruthenian language are foreign to Lithuanians

>They spoke Lithuanian
They didn't, as in royalty. Only peasants did.
>Litvak
All is clear now.

What do you have against Litvaks? Also. Nobility apoke Lithuanian at homes

Because their neighbours were too powerful

>why did an empire not form
Because no great men were born, simple as

Muscovy, which was 5x times smaller? Germans who were crushed? Or golden horde, also defeated?

Size doesn't matter. Centralization and army does.

>inb4 dick jokes XDD

Tbh if Gdl would've centralized, Muscogy would be no match

The biggest problem for both K. of Poland and GDL was that they let Novgorod get massacred by Muscovy.

swamps and forests

Why did they let that happen though?

>Nah, Commonwealth was a disaster, especially for Lithuanians
Lithuanians joined Commonwealth because otherwise they would be annexed by Teutonic Knights and Muscovy

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novgorod_Republic#Fall_of_the_Republic

>Also, I'm not Lithuanian, I'm of Litvak , Bavarian and French descent,

desu. Lithuanians, Latvians and Polacks are probably one of the whitest people in Europe.

Most polacks are cryptotatars

Not true.

t.atar

Lol

lol, my father is litvak and mother half german half french, I'm probably whiter than you

>Teutonic knights
By the time of Lublin Union, they were vassals of GDL

this, tbqh

>Lithuanians
>whitest
Lol

Almost everyone there are blonde blue eyed snowniggers

t. Visited Lithuania

whiter than actual wh*Tes, at any rate
how pathetically sad is that

u mad? balts and west slavs are the whitest people in Europe, honorary mention: Finns.

Hair and eye color isn't enough to define "Whiteness", which is a dumb concept anyway.

Being white isn't solely about skin colour. Look at the Irish, their skin is pretty damn pale yet you wouldn't consider them white people

They were too busy LARPING as Scythians to make a proper empire.

Irish are more white and germanic than Brits lmao.
Wrong. But I agree that it should be called "Sarmatia" instead of PLC or Poland. At least it wouldn't make Lithuanians, Ukrainains and Belarusians feel like shit.

>Lithuanians
>Larping as Scythians
Lithuanian nobles were larping as Romans
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palemonids

Poles were the ones LARPing as judeo-wendo-scytho-sarmatians, though.
Lithuanians were Romanz.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palemonids

>Plc
>Polish - Lithuanian Commonwealth
How does it make Lithuanians feel bad?

I'm guessing you're a Pole? It's pathetic how you try to include yourselves as the "whitest", because if you use the methodology that leads to the conclusion of you and Balts being the "whitest", you can really narrow it down quite a bit further to only include Balts as the whitest.

Balts + Finns are the whitest

Doesn't matter though, both accomplished fuck all

Because it was often referred as only "Poland" or "Res Publica"
Balts and West Slavs are the whitest people in Europe. You cannot refute this in any way, sweety.

History classes prioritize anti-polish indoctrination and shameless we wuzzing.
I'm not even joking.

The funny thing about larping is that Germanics used to larp as having Scandinavian/Asgardian roots.

But when christianity gained popularity, everyone tried to tie themselves to Abrahamic roots.
Are you Lithuanian?

Sure thing, Juan.

Whoa, so this is the power of non argument.

Well, I live in Germany, during history classes it was accented that It was POLISH - LITHUANIAN , that both were equal

>anglos
>white

Almost every nation larped at some point. Brits were larping as WE WUZ VIKINGS

More of an argument than trying to lump yourselves in with Balts when every metric you use to prove your own whiteness results in proving Balts far whiter.

The Poles are the ones LARPING, just to clear any confusion there.

t. anime Shithuanian

Stop larping as a Lithuanian, you R*ssian piece of nigger shit.

>2017
>not being Sarmatian

@3694088
>l*thuanian
I am NeoGalindian.
They were pretty much separate countries, but under one monarch, up until the XVI c.
Both had separate names, institutions, armies, budget, laws and money. Only the Sejm, King and foreign policy were common in both realms.

Tbh, Lithuanians hate poles as much as russians, at least my relatives told me that.
>Lithuanians are romans

>Poles have the most Aryan Y-DNA
>Lithuanian language is the closest to Aryan
Are you even trying Shitropeans?

PLC WHEN

>Sarmatia
You have no historical connection, continuity, relation, or culture, or even language with Sarmatians.
So both are Larpers then! Its settled then.

lies

>You have no historical connection, continuity, relation, or culture, or even language with Sarmatians.
That's where you're wrong. Religious, linguistic and genetic ties are a fact.

No you don't.

Then Lithuanians wuz romans. Word and language similarity to Roman language, similar god Pantheon.

Noice.

Quality thread

>WE WUZ SHAHS AND SHIEEEEEEEEEEET

Yes, they do. You know nothing about Sarmatians, Scyths and early Slavs.
>Aryans
>Islam
LOL

I just wanted to talk about country that isn't talked about much

>Yes, they do.
No, they don't. You know nothing about Sarmatians, Scythians, and early Iranics.
>religion
>race
LOL

In Poland we are taught that Poles were dominant and we fucked Lithuanians over in 1569.

It shouldn't be talked about at all.

>we wuz Aryans n shit
>even though only Indo-Iranians designated themselves as Aryans while Slavs never did

Ah yes

You are always that one fucker pushing this shit and its hilarious

t. shitskin "Iranian"

t. shitskin "Pole"

>Shah
>an islamic title
Try not being retarded for five connsecutive seconds, you uneducated prole

Nah, you're just a dumb fucking cretin lmao

Why?

Yeah, I've heard the same thing. That's why I'm asking why GDL didn't become an empire in it's own right

Nah, I'm just one of several people that enjoy calling out retarded slavs who are so depressed with their own heritage they try to appropriate others out of shame. The only piss-ant here is you dude.

>Shah
>Islam
????

Was it like Austro-Hungary and an equal marriage of power and status or no?

>Why
Because we want to be left the fuck alone.
It all went to absolute shit the moment some uppity nigger crowned himself duke and decided to venture out from the swamps.

I understand it was, only when GDL became PLC poles got upper hand.
do all Lithuanians hate themselves?

They were too weak. GDL was big, but sparsely populated and poor. Teutonic Knights would rape them hard.

Yes.
Self-hate is just another national pastime we copied from the p*les.
The other being coprophagia.

But didn't they rape them back?

I mean that there would no Poland or GDL in 1569 if we didn't ally against Teutonic Order centuries earlier.

After personal union with Poland. Combined polish-lithuanian forces managed to beat Knights in 1410. It was first big victory Lithuanians or Poles scored against the Order.

Probably because it was the first and only "big" battle in two centuries of what were basically petty raids.

True. Still, Teutonic Knights were stronger than either but weaker than both. Any big battle before the union would probably end in crushing victory for the Order.

>. Look at the Irish, their skin is pretty damn pale yet you wouldn't consider them white people
What the fuck is this edgy meme? Do you think you're a 19th century English aristocrat? The term white is arbitrary as fuck especially if you don't want to include Celts and slavs for whatever reason. If you're going to do that you may as well just use terms lik Germanic. Honestly words like black and white out are fucking stupid. An Ethiopian and a Nigerian aren't the same because they are "black". Same with a Frenchman and a Ukrainian.
>inb4 buthurt paddy/amerimutt/slavshit I'm 100% English

3/4 of polish - lithuanian(belorusian) Forces were Poles
lithuanian (belorusian) flee from battle

This, tbqh.
You forgot to mention that the remaining 1/4 of the GDL forces (actual liths) flanked the teutons from behind and saved the day, though.
Moral of the story: never trust a r*thenian, for he is the cockroach.

See