The carb discussion

Because they keep you satiated and give you energy.

In b4
>Carbs don't make you satiated!
This is what Americans actually believe. The low carb claim that fat and protein satiate you, while carbs don't sounds bizarre to an European. Like saying "Valium doesn't make you tired, coffee does."

Overdoing it isn't effective either. Lowering fat intake below 25-30% of daily intake will lower free-T as well and not eating enough protein will lower muscle protein synthesis. As everything in life, a good balance is key.

the only dyel here is you, with a dyel of the mind muscles

anabolicmen.com/carbohydrates-testosterone/

scroll down and look up the links of the studies.

Low carbs = low test

>what is proven studies
see

this, a good balance is required for optimal functioning.

Low carbs is bad. Low fat is bad. Low protein is also kinda bad (ergo-log.com/build-muscles-but-eat-little-protein-use-l-citrulline.html)

Low anything, especially low carb which is often used for the Veeky Forums diets here is only useful for diets, and removing fat. As long as you know that your test will be low during that diet as well.

This. Everytime I eat a healthy source of complex carbs like oats or whole wheat bread I'm fucking stuffed. I think the myth stems from the fact that simple sugars don't keep you satiated at all and we all know murricans eat a shitton of table sugar, glucose and high fructose syrup bullshit.

What's a good macro balance for a skelly to get some weight?
Currently I'm more or less at:
Protons 133 g
Carbs 421 g
Fats 73 g
daily
Not sure if that's a healthy spread.
Around ~2700 calories a day for now.

i love complex carbs

>oats
>brown rice
>potatoes
^my niggas

Just as there is a cyclical keto diet, there also exists a more generic and healthy diet for weight lifters. Its quite simply really. On the days that you exercise you eat slightly more carbs (to replenish your glycogen reserves). And on your rest days you focus more on proteins and fats (where the muscle synthesis occurs most)

no deficiencies anywhere, no cortisol response, your test doesnt drop.

Because youll die if you dont you fucking moron.

You wont die, your body will just eat away at the fat first to produce ketones. And if there is no fat, it will eat away at the muscles. Assuming that you eat enough calories, this wont happen though.

Because starvation is basically similar in appearance. And all the while you are doing this, your test will be low.

How do I get my abs showing while building muscles? Is low carb diet a meme?!

>anabolicmen.com/carbohydrates-testosterone/
>anabolicmen

Post a real source not some click bait tier website

Get the fuck outta here with that ncbi study, they also had skewed research on cholesterol vs dietary cholesterol

Here some ass for both of you

no, low carb is not a meme diet. It works, but its part of cutting, you wont make much progress during it because it fucks with your test.

The best way to be low carb, or even keto is to also have a caloric deficit alongside it. That way your body will have no chance to build up (fat) reserves and will be constantly tapping into fat tissue to survive. It will be one step closer to seeing the results that you want...its faster.

I plan on doing something like this when I start bulking after the summer.

You shouldn't

High protein diets have more concentrated stools.
Carbs do not give any kind of amino acids.

Oh god the epidemiology of that "study"...

If you crave carbs your diet is fucked.

Hahaha, that broscience.

found the ketard.

People like you should be banned for spreading false misinformation. You guys are basically shills.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3573976
nature.com/icb/journal/v78/n5/full/icb200076a.html
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21855365
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20091182
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8495690

low carb = low test

>30% carbs.

Th-that's considered keto?

I go by IIFYM and I'm 35% protein, 35% fat, 30% carbs.

You should completely avoid them.

A low carb diet provides:
>Higher HDL
>Lower LDL
>Lower triglycerides
>Less C-reactive protein (much less inflammation)
>Lower insuline resistance

I kinda dislike pasting this link over here, but this book has a lot of the methods and meta that has this method in it. Some of his claims are bullshit, but I googled the methods outside of him and they are solid.

kat.cr/testshock-program-2014-by-christopher-walker-dr-soc-requested-t11916629.html

>what is fiber
>what is reading comprehension

What part of "giving a piggyback ride" do you not understand? It's crucial to consume high GI carbs AND amino acid supps eight after working out because high GI carbs facilitates improved transportation for amino acids THAT DOES BOT COME FROM CARBS.

>no, low carb is not a meme diet.
It LITERALLY is. It was a fad diet in the 2000s, then died because people noticed it was shit. Then, it was revived for the 2010s autist fitness fad by fucking reddit. Nobody would eat keto today if it wasn't for the internet.

How the fuck do I download anything from those links to read dem papers?
I'm curious but can't find anything past abstract.

>He thinks you can't die from keto
It's a medical diagnosis for a reason.

paywalls are a bitch user, cant help you with that because I dont know how to get past them either.

kek, well, its in the details.

Really fat people can die from a keto diet because their fat tissue cannot be as efficiently used as with more normal weight people.

That is why they are usually in a hospital bed if they are doing a keto thing.

For normal people however its less dangerous. Since their body will just take fat from their reserves and use that for fuel...to keep them from dying.

Oh... Oooohhhhh... well, no knowledge for me mang.
Kinda sad they hide this kind of shit behind paywalls.
What a sad world we live in.
Thought such papers would be public by default for people to see.

Satan trips

but I gotta say, I am often not that very conscious, or extremely in detail about things and as usual there are many different opinions out there. Or perhaps research papers that you long have forgotten.

But my subtle, passive knowledge of this topic (alongside a rough comparison to the evidence to the contrary, also secondary sources like that testshock thing, too much tl;dr to possibly explain), tell me that the low carb thing really is bad for your muscles.

I too was on the keto diet and when I remember it back, I dont remember having the clear signs of high testosterone as I have today.

Eating enough carbs and doing some of the other things improved my test by a fuckton. I started growing more chest hair, and most notably...my smell changed. A lot. So the carb thing is probably the one thing that helped.

Now some of the sites may say that carbs are unhealthy, but they most likely meant to say that eating sugars is bad...well they are...I have been below 7 grams of sugar for 2 years now. I get my carbs from breads and other less evil sources of carbs...

Thanks for sharing user, appreciated.
I actually wrote Any advice?
I managed to get my eating in order (used to munch 2 meals a day) and I'm trying to polish my dieting a bit.
Doing a lot of cycling for now, starting the gym probably next month.

your brain requires carbs to live. you need a minimum carb intake otherwise you WILL die, regardless of the other caloric input or how healthy you think you are. you need SOME amount of carbs.

on top of that, there have been studies that link low carb consumption to lesser muscle and strength growth, sexual drive, lethargy, etc.

stop making a circus act out of your diet with these meme diets and eat like a normal person.

Ooh, for you I dont know exactly what the best approach may be. I came from a fatty background so to me only cutting, diets were my main focus.

To be honest I dont know if I know how to help you.

I think that a generic healthy diet would be good at the very least (the no soda's, no gmo's, no candies or other high sources of sugars + avoidance of too many other additives that may give you cancers)

But for bulking, coming from a skelly background it would be best to ask in other threads to get more specific advice. If you are a skelly, it would be a great starting position to gain muscle mass though, assuming that you partition your macro's well.

I would almost have to direct you to the sticky...kek.

Nah, 30% carbs isn't low enough to be considered keto but it's still way too low from a healthy nutrition point of view. Don't fall for the high protein meme. 1g and above per lb is literally a scheme by the supplement industry. 1.4-1.8g per kg of lean bodymass is enough to build muscle.

Its not entirely true user, you do not need to eat carbs to survive. Your body has a mechanism called ketosis that makes ketones out of fat and/or muscle.

Because people who dont eat any kind of food...they starve for over a month...they dont just drop dead instantly for lacking carbs...

The rest is still accurate though. Having no carbs sends your body in a state of stress, where you have lower testosterone.

So its possible to survive without carbs, but its not very good for your muscle mass...because of test being lowered.

>Get the fuck outta here with that ncbi study, they also had skewed research on cholesterol vs dietary cholesterol
Dietry cholesterol along with saturated and trans fats have been found to be the sole factors for increase in LDL cholesterol and decrease in HDL.
>Oh god the epidemiology of that "study"...
Why don't you guys just outright say you don't believe anything that disproves what you believe in. I'm still waiting for that one study that proves the dangerous bodily condition of ketosis actually improves the amount of free testosterone in your blood.

Pretty solid macro ratio but I'd go for 135g protein, 370g carbs and 90g fat.

I just read on this site

articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/05/26/eliminate-junk-food-cravings.aspx

I'm not sure if it's mom mode but they talk about how you use your energy storage of sugars after 8 hours so I think if you're doing IF and eating carbs you should be okay, carbs are good for you but try and reduce them and add healthy fats

fitness is a lifestyle you should change things so fitness is manageable not a chore

>Dietry cholesterol along with saturated and trans fats have been found to be the sole factors for increase in LDL cholesterol and decrease in HDL.

Back to the 70s we go

Even for 193cm (6,3') and a 70kg skelly?
I might just put in some more healthy fats and keep carbs this high right?
Want to start gaining some weight finally.
Sick and tired of my body.

That's the issue here in amerilard. Everything is simple carbs, corn goes in everything.

Sure, you can keep the carbs that high. No problem with that.

Please show me those new advanced studies that have somehow disproven everything that was known before. You sound like modern mathematics should be able to prove 2+2 isnt 4.

I hate to recommend it but, try some bulk whey powder? They specifically made it for people like you?

You could always simply just eat more, but we who come from being fat find it hard to imagine you feel since we always had an easy time eating.

based just on my own experience
low carb = low test, shit performance, no pumps, ZERO sex drive, SHIT wellbeing, can't concentrate at all and therefore can't work/study

what I've noticed over the years: only fattys and skinnyfats who never really get anywhere do keto, everybody who actually looks good eats a lot of carbs

>bulk whey powder

I meant mass gainer

holy kek yea, the morning boner is one of the other easiest ways to see if you have high enough test. When on keto I lost my morning wood.

another great and easy to read variable why keto is shit for your test.

I plan on getting supplements when I actually start hitting the gym.
For now, no cash for sport clothes and membership.
Haven't own a pair of sport shoes in almost 10 years.
And getting myself to eat costs me a lot in comparison to what I used to pay for food.

I see where you are coming from, myself, I don't enjoy eating.
Now it's "no pain no gain" for me.
I stuff myself as much as I can and keep going at it.

I felt pretty good on keto, plan to get back on it eventually. Just goes to show that anedoctal evidence is worthless.

so are studies suggesting that keto is fine, if there's always a ton of people saying how bad keto works for them

>weightloss =/= healthy living
except if you're too fat

Universities usually have subscriptions for major journals.
If you don't have access to a Uni IP, sometimes public libraries might have a few of the big ones, too.
They might be able to help you find a specific article even without being subscribed.

>Dietry cholesterol along with saturated and trans fats have been found to be the sole factors for increase in LDL cholesterol and decrease in HDL.
>sole factors

Go drink nothing but unfiltered coffee then get a lipid profile.

Good idea, thanks man

>they don't know about sci-hub.bz/
thank me later nerds

This SO FUCKING GOD DAMN MUCH

>eat low carb/high protein/high fat diet for 4 years
>have always looked good, lean and muscular
>never could get a full erection, extremely difficult to get it up before starting sex
>after these years kinda accepted the fate of ED, even took viagra
>decide ottermode was nice but I want to get bigger, so I start bulking to built mode
>up the carbs
>suddenly, dick is hard, so fucking hard
>morning wood is back, dick is concrete when taking girls' clothes off
>this has been going for 2 months now

Holy shit guys how could I be so blind? I'm so happy now
After all these years just managing a simple erection and not going limp after fucking for 1 hour, now my dick is SO alive again that I'm having trouble holding back to not cum in 2 minutes, holy fuck

There is a whole body of studies in favor of lchf, pointing to a efficient way to lose weight, treat diabetes and even improving cvd risk factors. I'm not so sure about keto specifically, though it seems pretty safe.
It's not just a fad, tons of medical professionals are turning to lchf/keto based on science and are actually seeing good results.

take zma before sleeping, it will help. Also take pills of carbinol 3 to surpress your estrogen, it MAY also help. Also eat 4 eggs a day, dat dietary cholesterol. Also dont run more than 40km a week, keep it at HIIT.

Keto does work, but it lowers test. Its good for weight loss and that potential cancer thing. But if you want to make some muscles. You either have to be on the specific cyclical keto diet (some carbs to load up), or just a nearly regular clean diet (carbs)

>ZMA
Already do
>4 eggs a day
Already do
>don't run too much
I don't do (much) cardio
>carbinol 3
I don't think I need it, I already eat tons of broccoli and cabbage

I said I've always been lean and my dick has been furiously hard for 2 months now, if you notice
Thanks for caring and offering genuine tips anyay breh

Do you have a source on that? Honestly curious. I'm ok with that if it's actually the case, I see keto as something to do once in a while for it's potential benefits.

well fuck user, good job on doing all of that. We may make it still like this.

Scroll up in this thread, or google it, plenty of research journals mention it. The low carbs = low test has mediocre to mediocre/high evidence to support it.

and besides, when I was on low carb alongside the other poster above. We both didnt pop morning boners.

Additionally, after going on carbs again and focussing on my test, my scent changed to be more manly.

So in my mind its pretty much confirmed that you need carbs for test. But feel free to test (get it kek?) it out yourself.

Carbs are literally fucking poison and will destroy your body and make you fat.

My only problem is that after eating some oatmeal I'll feel really sleepy for the next half an hour or so.

>Don't fall for the high protein meme. 1g and above per lb is literally a scheme by the supplement industry. 1.4-1.8g per kg of lean bodymass is enough to build muscle.

Vegan alert. Ignore everything this user says.

Carbs are good for you, all carbs are good for you. Once you start thinking in terms of "bad carbs", you already lost because you will consider switching out those carbs for fat/protein which will make you fat and give you diabetes.

>seriously helping retards

Stop catbro

Maybe someone here can tell me, I'm planning to reach my daily calories goal with this ratio:
Protein: 43%
Carbs: 32%
Fats: 25%
I've got this from a german bodybuilding board that recommends 4g per bodyweight of protein. I'm not sure if that's just brosience but they are huge and they should know what they are talking about right?

Isn't this a keto/low carb diet?

I hope you're trolling, because otherwise you trully are retarded.

consider reading a sticky

it's fucking retarded, read the sticky

what sort of carbs did you eat? and what sort of carbs were you eating when you were doing lowcarb?

Hey the vegan tard is back again.

sports athletes, bodybuilders, olympic competitors, etc have all been consuming carbs as part of their training since forever

there's literally nothing wrong with carbohydrates

Just had some mashed pinto beans, tomato, and three flour tortillas and it rocked. Would have been a rare vegan meal for me but I added some bacon fat and sour cream to the beans for flavor and consistency.