I've heard this argued both ways and I want the opinion of you gentlemen: was America a legitimate revolution for freedom, or a bunch of businessmen who wanted to dodge taxes with their private army.
I know how they taught it in school, but I'm suspicious of their bias.
wtf i love mutts and jews now
Well, the British didn't treat the US citizens the same way they treated British citizens.
They didn't give the US any representation in Parliament, and British forces in America acted like an occupying army.
The war started in earnest because British forces tried to confiscate the cannons from the local militia at Lexington and Concord.
So the desire for increased political representation and political freedom played a large role.
Besides that, if somebody is taking your shit, and you don't want them to, using force to stop them is legitimate. People have a right to not be exploited.
>was America a legitimate revolution for freedom, or a bunch of businessmen who wanted to dodge taxes with their private army.
¿Porque no los dos?
It was for "freedom", but in a pretty narrow sense. Not even talking in the "only white landowners can vote" sense, but they intended to set up a system closer to early republic Rome, with themselves set up to be the patricians who would exclusively hold legislative and executive power, and the only democratic aspect being that everyone else could vote.
The latter, after they had just had their mother country fight a war for them.
From there, they ask to pay the taxes that they have been dodging to help pay back that war. So they say no, radicalize the lower classes with propaganda. We then ally with the superpower that rivaled our home country (which of course they will come to regret when we fuck them too).
Everything goes down hill from there.
>Britain gets into war with France in America
>Colonies never asked for this
>War was costly. Crown wants to tax Colonies hard to pay for it since it was fought over there.
>WTF we never asked for this.
>Colonies raise a ruckus
>Eventually Colonials even agree to new Taxes, they just want representation in Parliament from here on in.
>King George tell them to get fucked on all counts.
>Revolution ensues
It's a mix of both. Both Buisness men being salty, and Colonials felt they were legit Englishman who deserved representation in Parliament if they were going to be taxed among other polices they had no say in.
Get fucked you redcoat tripfag
They were a bunch of leftist communist terrorists.
>Get fucked you redcoat tripfag
I will. Ladies love the uniform.
Every single person who works in an 18thC museum ends up loyalist.
God save the King.
Legitimate revolution that got hijacked by landed and merchant elites.
>he thinks it was about taxes instead of LARPers wanting to make history
>Every single socially awkward forever alone outcast that works in an 18thC museum ends up a Britboo sperglord autist with delusions of grandeur
Color me shocked
>>Every single socially awkward forever alone outcast
>Implying that all the college age to mid 30's employees are not having kinky, 18thC sex all the goddam time
Remember that next time you tour a historic building.
Every surface.
Even the church.
Especially the church.
Now go back to wanking about the American bullshit mythology, and don't forget, without the French we wouldn't be here.
>we
>calling yourself an American
Go live in Bongistan and get spied on 24/7 just to come home to your daughter getting gang raped by a bunch of Pakistanis, you fucking Britboo
>loyalists
>on my internet
>Implying Glorious Britannia would be as it is today without ungrateful provincials weakening the empire before Napoleon.
Die in a fire
I am from a French colony originally. Vive La Roi!
No it wasnt just business men, were all taught that the brits basically just wanted to extort us to an incredulous amount and almost every American had felt they were independent from Britain by this point anyway.
When they tried to force us to submit we didnt and instead took up arms.
IMO it was stupid because we SHOULD have lost and we probably would have if we handnt had Washington and very reckless bravery from our great great great grandfathers who were all untrained wheat farners.
>it's ungrateful to not give somebody your money and your liberties for no reason other than that they'll shoot you if you won't
This was before Englishmen became cowards. No Englishmen of that day would put up with being subject in their homeland, and the early Americans were Englishmen.
Also
>blaming Napoleon for the UK becoming cucks when the UK won the Napoleonic Wars and spent the next century as the worlds first superpower
>not blaming it on Neville Chamberlain being such a massive cuck that he let his country get rekt by Germany even after the Americans lost hundreds of thousands of people winning the war for Britain the last time
Also
PIRA were the good guys
>Go live in Bongistan and get spied on 24/7 just to come home to your daughter getting gang raped by a bunch of Pakistanis, you fucking Britboo
Hue muslim rape you european shit hehe I read that on breitbart.
When you have absolutely no arguments left.
There are more religious fundamentalists in the usa than in europe, there are more rapes and murder in the us the quality of life is 10 times better bbbbuuut rapefugeeez you haaave no friiidom
Americans still wonder why the whole world either hates or makes fun of them.
Would this shirt even work if you're not white?
>Americans still wonder why the whole world either hates or makes fun of them
We dont think about you at all.
>Americans still wonder why the whole world either hates or makes fun of them.
OBSESSED
my how I'd like to motorboat those gazooganoghas
Sure that's why you insecure shits talk about europe and your european heritage 24/7 right?
Gonna watch some 9/11 footage now, damn that was a great day.
>implying anyone actually cares about their heritage in America
We've got more important things to do like shoot guns and use the only measurement system capable of putting people on the moon.
Anyways, have some good 9/11 footage.
youtube.com
I mean they did a really good job of brainwashing the lower class
>Sure that's why you insecure shits talk about europe and your heritage 24/7
>implying
>implying this hard
I shiggy diggy
YES.
It wouldn't have come off if it wasn't both. Revolutions that work and leave countries behind are always based in many classes, professions, and ethnic groups.
Ireland's war for independence was similar. It was definitely local interests who wanted to set favorable laws and taxes, and it was definitely hardcore nationalists, and it was the Church, and it was the atheist scholars, and it was ten or fifteen percent of everyone.
And in Malaysia they decided the revolution should be Chinese people ruling the country, which was a terrible basis for a revolution, and the Brits defeated it ON THE WAY OUT.
The Civil War was far more cut and dry than the Revolution. You really can explain the ACW with 'slavery etc.', but you can't explain the ARW in the same way. 'Taxation without representation' is like a third of what was happening.
What do you mean by that? The general "the poor in America see them as temporarily unfortunate rich people"?
It was more than one thing, pursued by a lot of people for a lot of reasons.
>measurement system capable of putting people on the moon.
The only thing you can be proud of, done by germans....
Lost every other step in the space race.....
Btw your scientists use metric you fucking retard.
>the USSR didn't have Germans
>the USSR didn't try to copy the Saturn V and then have it blow up in a multiple kiloton lulzbomb over Kazakhstan
Pretty much yeah, also fervent nationalism
They don't even realize how childish and insecure their patriotism makes them look
.
>Btw your scientists use metric you fucking retard.
Not when we put people on the moon we didn't.
The lack of self awareness is breathtaking.
Okay, it's not, but it's the funniest thing around on a Wednesday night.
>childish and insecure
sounds like someone just can't handle the freedom
The Founding Fathers were also influenced by the contemporary Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and wanted the same individual freedoms the nobility in the PLC enjoyed, but without the unelected hereditary nobility that screwed Poland in the end.
USSR had all the 2nd grade scientists since von Braun surrendered with his whole team to the allies in Bavaria.
USSR copying the Saturn5
Dude stop talking out of your ass, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.
The Soviets didn't even have a hydrogen stage until they developed the energija.
>all rockets are the Saturn5
Do your homework before you talk to me again shithead.
I assumed they were cribbing pretty heavily off of the Dutch.
You have to remember a significant number of Englishmen also detested the crown, and Hessian mercenaries were not only employed in America, but also used to garrison England proper to forestall a rebellion in the home country. Many British dissidents fled west, bringing with them expertise and revolutionary fervor.
The actual events of the war were even more about freedom than the predominant reading, which boils the conflict down to an American Vs British war, when it was largely seen as a civil war by the participants.
that's just wrong but keep ignoring reality
>he is now admitting that the US is better at "catch the German scientist"
We're making progress.
>that's just wrong but keep ignoring reality
says the user who refuses to use god's true system
The Found Fathers had the advantage of being across the Atlantic and away from most of the bullshit that comes with hereditary nobility and being a frontier nation, the people had greater leeway in thought and action and could pick & choose those elements of society they wanted or not.
As for OP’s question; the American Revolution wouldn’t have happened if average Americans didn’t have a problem with the UK and weren’t willing to fight over it.
It's worth pointing out that the shooting war actually started before the political elites decided to declare one.
How fucking rwtarded are you, you did not catch them they surrendered to you.
The usa were ebviously a better place than the ussr and the scientist knew that.
Only because the USA are a shithole doesn't mean there is no worse place.
rollingstone.com
Gotta go, enjoy your bible brainlet.
>legitimate
>revolution
So the US is the best in the "places scientists want to defect to" race?
I didn't see von Braun trying to surrender to the British.
>A study last year found that in many American counties, especially in the deep South, life expectancy is lower than in Algeria, Nicaragua or Bangladesh
Are you really that retarded?
Von Braun wanted to build rockets ofc he wanted to go to the US unlike GB they had money.
So we're done talking about the space program?
So you're saying that the US was the best country in the world to be a rocket scientist, which is why they ended up getting the best rockets and winning the space race.
I find this revelation appalling, I thought we magicked our way through everything like a real superpower does.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't many of the architects and backers of the revolution funding wise jewish?
You know that your country is shit when you shift the conversation to something that happened 50 years ago was done by SS-Men and you had nothing to do with.
Sure you landed on the moon who cares?
We were talking about the fact that US scientists use metric and this fact still floats over your head, you would know that if you had ever been to college.
Yes ofc it was, how does that change the fact that it is a shithole now?
I wasn't arguing about how shitty the US were in the 60s right?
The moon landing really is the only thing you can be proud of, that's why you bring it up all the time.
How sad, I rather live in a great country now lead by an adult than dreaming about the achievements done by others in the past.
Literall we wuz moon landing
you'd be in a gulag without us
Shift?
It was a conversation about space travel. I came into this thread talking about space travel.
So you now concede that America is better at space travel.
Tee bee aytch I'm also pretty proud of ruining the CSA, the Third Reich, Imperial Japan, the British Empire, and the Soviet Union, and for saving Germany, Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea, and turning them into prosperous, free, and proud nations.
I hope we can get a second wind in time to blow up the PRC too.
Also, banter aside, if you were a rocket scientist now, what country would you rather go to?
It would still probably be the USA.
>Correct me if I'm wrong
Burden of proof is on you m8. A bald assertion is no argument.
/thread
The USA has become an abomination unto the LORD and shall be destroyed.
completely this
sauce
>damn that was a great day.
Found the Achmed.
...
To smart for religion, sorry brainlet
...
Commoncuck pls
>Its an OBSESSED thread
why are europeans so pathologically angry at america? is it from the socialist indoctrination they are brainwashed with at schools?
The USA is doomed.
t. 56%
We're also done going to the moon, dipshit.
The US slashed its space budget around 2008 and hasn't bothered investing in anything for a decade.
I bet you thought ww2 draft-dodgers, fascist usa rockwell party, and beatniks never existed huh
I thought "In God We Trust" meant something.
>was America a legitimate revolution for freedom, or a bunch of businessmen who wanted to dodge taxes with their private army.
Both. it was both
>it's a "Amerimut sperging out about British surveillance, without realising that the US government read that post before he even finished typing it" episode
Yeah. I guess your as dumb as i thought. As if those two fags are the most evil this country has ever seen. When there were literal concentration camps and genocides in california.
The Obergefell decision has farther reaching implications, brainlet.
the fuck? This is the exact opposite of what happened. The colonies wanted war with the French so they could expand westward into France's mississippi territories, and it was George Washington himself who started the 7 years war.
>if somebody is taking your shit, and you don't want them to, using force to stop them is legitimate
So I am legitimate in using force to not pay taxes to my government?
And they are legitimate in using force against you for denying them their dues for providing you with running water, roads, police, fire services, money, education, protection from foreign invaders etc. Let's see who wins.
>People have a right to not be exploited
Hence slavery
>either/or
Why not both? I'd say that's the most accurate.There's always a mix of true believers and cynical manipulators in most political events.
I wish they talked about the French more at the high school level, as well as Pulaski and de Gálvez. Shit would lend a lot of context, plus it's just good entertainment.
>people
>he really believes this
Slavery was always the grand hypocrisy looming over the American revolution. Liberty freedom and justice for all men... except the people who give us fat profit margins.
Royalists out
A perhaps interesting bit from the musical "1776," which is obviously not a source for accurate history, but which nonetheless crystallizes why abolitionists iamong the founding fathers might have had to accept a non-ideal outcome on that issue:
Dr. Benjamin Franklin: We've no choice, John. The slavery clause has got to go.
John Adams: [stunned] Franklin, what are you saying?
Dr. Benjamin Franklin: It's a luxury we can't afford.
John Adams: [pause, then] 'Luxury?' A half million souls in chains... and Dr. Franklin calls it a 'luxury!' Maybe you should have walked out with the South!
Dr. Benjamin Franklin: [dangerous] You forget yourself sir. I founded the FIRST anti-slavery society on this continent.
John Adams: Oh, don't wave your credentials at me! Maybe it's time you had them renewed!
Dr. Benjamin Franklin: [angrily] The issue here is independence! Maybe you have forgotten that fact, but I have not! How DARE you jeopardize our cause, when we've come so far? These men, no matter how much we may disagree with them, are not ribbon clerks to be ordered about - they are proud, accomplished men, the cream of their colonies. And whether you like them or not, they and the people they represent will be part of this new nation that YOU hope to create. Now, either learn how to live with them, or pack up and go home!
Slightly later, Franklin is made to say:
Dr. Benjamin Franklin: Besides, what would posterity think we were? Demi-gods? We're men, no more no less, trying to get a nation started against greater odds than a more generous God would have allowed. First things first, John. Independence; America. If we don't secure that, what difference will the rest make?
both correct
if you can win, you get to keep your shit. It's really that simple...
>la
>roi
Whoops. Pardon my backwards swamp-French nature. I am but humble colonial.
>Le Roi
You invalidated everything you could possibly say by that “ ahah 9/11 amirite fellow euros”
>it's another 'Americans can't handle the banter' episode
You mean Por qué
Do yourself a favour, and look up "Yankees at the Court: The First Americns in Paris" by Susan Mary Alsop.
Peasants should know their place. Les Chouans se bttent pour le roi et l justice!
Our astronauts did when they went up their you retard
You better not be false-flagging
You’re welcome for transistors, lightbulbs, the internet (no the brits didn’t invent it) working planes, video games, bessemer steel, and a slew of other gifts from America to the world btw :^)
Leave this board you traitorous fundie savage