Why does Veeky Forums hate political and economic freedoms?

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

Why does Veeky Forums hate political and economic freedoms?

All urls found in this thread:
https://libcom.org/files/intro%20pamphlet%20reading.pdf
http://www.infoshop.org/AnarchistFAQSectionA
http://www.infoshop.org/AnarchistFAQSectionF
https://c4ss.org/content/4043
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/pierre-joseph-proudhon-what-is-property-an-inquiry-into-the-principle-of-right-and-of-governmen
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread
http://radgeek.com/gt/2011/10/Markets-Not-Capitalism-2011-Chartier-and-Johnson.pdf
Spamalot
Spamalot

non-alpha males prefer social wellfare network

Soft_member
Soft_member

@LuckyDusty
economic freedom
Posts flag of "Non-aggression"

Non-aggression laws are the precursor to all the laws we have today.

If I steal from you, that's a 100% gain; that's akin to stealing milk from a cow, honey from bees, eggs from chickens, etc. Theoretically, I've already violated someone's territory or stolen food from a bush that was claimed by another animal; everything in this Earth is claimed by another living being.

If I trade something to get something, I'm losing something to benefit.
Why ought I lose something to benefit, when I could take? Humans aren't equal, therefore I should steal just like I steal from every other living animal.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

@LuckyDusty
What makes you think Veeky Forums hates political and economic freedom? This is probably the most liberal board on all of Veeky Forums. I mean, I'm not a libertarian, but that's not because I'm not attracted to the libertarian idea, it's because I don't think libertarianism would work in practice. It's too extreme - thinking that the market will take care of everything if we just let it is wishful thinking just like thinking that everything will be great if we just redistribute the means of production to the workers is wishful thinking.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@LuckyDusty
Political and economic freedoms are both good, but not for the reasons that libertarians and ancaps think.

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Gigastrength

How to fix ancap's road problem?

w8t4u
w8t4u

libertarianism is leftie degenerate garbage and 'freedoms' don't mean anything. On top of that, I don't want there to be a shortage of land and people getting shot over that shortage of land because some boomer fuck bought up most of it and the state can't punish him for not developing it so people can actually live in a non third-world country. These days they're saying that we should have open borders and no gun laws except to prevent gun shooting. So it's really just a professional protest party more then one with convictions.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@MPmaster
Well anarcho-capitalism is just retarded, there is a legitimate place for government while also avoiding absolute government control over the economy or politics.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@LuckyDusty

I don't hate political and economic freedoms, I just don't believe that Laissez-Faire economics represents a state of maximum economic freedom and I believe there's a healthy role for the government to play in the enforcement of positive rights.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

mfw unironically have a Gadsden Flag hung up in my room

I'm not white but I have to admit, I started reading the writings of the Founding Fathers, John Locke and Thomas Paine as well as American poets like Ralph Waldo Emerson and Walt Whitman and I fell in love with it all.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Carnalpleasure
Nobody give a shit about your life, blogcuck.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@LuckyDusty
settle down there bud

King_Martha
King_Martha

@w8t4u
calls libertarianism leftie
proposes leftist-style land use regulation
wut

askme
askme

@King_Martha
baseless accusations. 'leftie' doesn't mean anything beyond impious or 'anti'. And the current standard for land use is used by the US. Which I said.

massdebater
massdebater

@LuckyDusty
muh freedums

Supergrass
Supergrass

once a syndacalist douchebag that came to our school to talk said something which is not false:
"socialism will never work in America because everybody considers himself a potential millionaire"

takes2long
takes2long

@LuckyDusty
We don't! Veeky Forums is an Ancap monarchist board.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Poker_Star
@MPmaster
A lot of people don't really understand Ancap, all because of that poor name. Ancap doesn't mean no government. It means that no government has the natural right to rule people. All men have natural rights and are governed by natural laws. They can, however, join a collective for the purpose or organization and defense. A state, if you will. The constitution, which outlines the rights, responsibilities, duties, et cetera, or both the state and the citizen is, in a way, a contract. A citizen can join this state, can enter his land into the state, can become a citizen, and is beholden to certain laws. If he breaks these laws, he can be punished. If other people break these laws, so will they. And if the state exercises more power than it has the right to exercise, the citizens who entered land into it have the right to secede, and even those who entered no land always have the right to leave, to vote with their feet. And if a landed man is unhappy with the state, but they have done no wrong, he can still leave at any time, but might not be allowed to really secede.
Do you understand? This is just my quick example.
Read Hoppe.

massdebater
massdebater

@w8t4u
You are an idiot. The American Libertarian Party isn't really libertarian.

idontknow
idontknow

@MPmaster
I assume toll roads

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@Bidwell
Which just makes things like military defense a nightmare to administer. Imagine if not paying your taxes meant that your house didn't have to be defended from invaders, but the house next to you that does pay its taxes still must be defended by the voluntary "government" should someone invade it. Defending the country while defending property that didn't pay for defense (which would allow for massive amounts of freeloaders leeching off the system) would be almost impossible.

TreeEater
TreeEater

@idontknow
Maybe just how we currently do it, except people can possibly secede.
Or, for a minarchist state, which is not the same as Ancap but could exist as an Ancap state, a free market system where road owners band together to create licenses which people pay for, and those licenses to drive cost money, which funds road repair and road security officers, who will arrest you if you're driving on their roads without a license.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Deadlyinx
If you refuse to pay taxes that you had agreed to pay for when joining a state, they could arrest you. Why would they just not defend your property? You are an idiot.
If anyone who often talks about how terrible Ancap is because they don't understand it spent half as much time reading Ancap literature or simply thinking of possible solutions as they do reading memeballs, maybe they'd be able to answer their on questions regarding Ancap.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Bidwell
Hoppe

Techpill
Techpill

@haveahappyday
Yes, I'm certain that was your exact reaction when reading the name of a true intellectual.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Brainlets who can't handle freedom.

Zombies who would rather be ruled by authoritarianism.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@BunnyJinx
”Freedom” is a meme word. You have a choice, but even in a capitalist, free market nation your choice is extremely limited

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@LuckyDusty
In his memoirs, Lee Kuan Yew recounted that as early as 1983, when he was still serving as Prime Minister, a proposal for the ban was brought up to him by the then Minister for National Development.
Chewing gum was causing serious maintenance problems in high-rise public housing flats, with vandals disposing of spent gum in mailboxes, inside keyholes and even on lift buttons. Chewing gum left on the ground, stairways and pavements in public areas increased the cost of cleaning and damaged cleaning equipment. Gum stuck on the seats of public buses was also considered a problem.
It was then reported that vandals had begun sticking chewing gum on the door sensors of MRT trains, preventing doors from functioning properly and causing disruption to train services. Such incidents were rare but costly and culprits were difficult to apprehend.

Some people, many people in fact, NEED to be governed.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@LuckyDusty
Freedom is the biggest spook around

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

You are living in a weakening state. The correct way to remedy this is actually to make government stronger and more centralized, but with less public servants.

t. Someone who actually read The Social Contract

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Emberfire
So basically every connection to the soil is broken when AnCap arrives?
Sounds shit.

Evilember
Evilember

@LuckyDusty
Did it violate the NAP?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Empire's arent born out of freedom.

eGremlin
eGremlin

@MPmaster
Taxing people and using the tax money to pay road companies.

FastChef
FastChef

Burger powerhours are way worse than the rest of the day

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

@Skullbone
If you sign a contract with a state saying that you join your land with them, will pay taxes, and follow their laws, and in exchange, they will protect you and do other things, if you break your side of the contract, they can decide your punishment. Likely, in their side of the contract, they would guarantee due process and fair punishment, but that wouldn't necessarily mean kicking you and your land out. It might just mean kicking you out. Or imprisoning you. Or fining you.
But if you think they would let anyone attack land under their rule, just because the technical owner of that land is breaking his side of the contract, you're nuts. And stupid.
Get a brain.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@LuckyDusty
because it's full of underage losers who almost always swing left

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Carnalpleasure
Same

happy_sad
happy_sad

@BunnyJinx
Which means if they don't sign the contract there's this big patch of land that any foreign invader can conquer without the defense contractors getting involved. Which means that there are now enemy military bases all over the fucking place.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@LuckyDusty
Because right wing 'libertarianism' isn't freedom.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@LuckyDusty
I don't. Picture is unrelated, I suppose?

RavySnake
RavySnake

@Bidwell
So anarcho-capitalism is a description of the social contract.

takes2long
takes2long

@LuckyDusty
Wrong. Left wing libertarianism isnt freedom since the state is needed to enforce equality. Bake the fucking cake, faggot.

Inmate
Inmate

@takes2long
*voluntarily associates*

antebellum USA was the one chance left-libertarianism ever really had but it still fell flat

Techpill
Techpill

@Inmate
But thats not left libertarianism. Thats right libertarianism. Left libertarianism/ anarchism doesnt exist.

likme
likme

@MPmaster
The first coast-to-coast American highway was built in the 1910s by private individuals

Techpill
Techpill

@Deadlyinx
He gave a bad example. The USA dealt with this issue in the early days; states like Vermont and New York were much more threatened by the British in Canada than were Georgians and Carolinians. As a result, the latter wasn't super-psyched to join the Militia. The solution? Pay them more. It's not that difficult.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Inmate
this picture is great until you start looking at the road layouts. was this what it was really like? it's hideous visually

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@MPmaster
By making a monopoly of affordable hovercars/helicopters/off-road vehicles/etc.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@happy_sad
they don't sign the contract
Do you know how many of these there would be? Little states? Very few people would be "independent."
And besides that, a state or individuals would always have the right to intervene if their little neighbor was getting conquered by anyone else, just as a bystander witnessing a mugging has the right to kill the mugger, and many would likely exercise that right, especially if it's in their advantage to do so, for example, to stop a military base from being put on their borders. So the only military bases set up on your borders would likely be in the lands of an owner who wanted that base there. And, in an Ancap society, warmongering groups or states would likely accrue many enemies. Think about it, Ancap is a philosophy that holds that people have natural rights and that getting unwillingly conquered is immoral. If, say, a state anywhere in the world is just conquered by another group, do you think all the other states would stand for it? Like if fifty people are in a room, completely unarmed. And one of them starts making a shank. What would happen? Would they stand idly by? Would they be morally obliged to stand idly by? No. But let's say they do. And then the shank-holder stabs someone. Would they all stand in line, waiting for him to take them on, one-by-one? No. Many would gang up on him, beat him half to death, and take his shank. Why do you think it'd be any different in a Ancap society?

farquit
farquit

@RavySnake
social contract.
No, it'd be a real contract. In a stateless void, and by that I mean land that was privately owned and associated with no "governing body," there would be no contract, but would still be certain natural laws all would be held to.
But if you join a "state," you would be held by their very-real contract.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Sir_Gallonhead
Would they all stand in line, waiting for him to take them on, one-by-one?
Pretty much any totalitarian state shouws that the answer is usually yes

massdebater
massdebater

@MPmaster
Roads are effeminate and bad for your joints.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

he hasn't taken the neoliberal pill yet

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Carnalpleasure

The Federalist Papers and Democracy In America are a must read for anyone becoming familiar with American politics. America as an idea is worth fighting for.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Bidwell
Hoppe isnt even an-cap

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@Fuzzy_Logic
What is he, then?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@MPmaster
Where ancap is going, we won't need roads.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Inmate
left-libertarianism
Literally never infected in a regime outside Europe. Jefferson was outside the political grid going downwards and rightwards and Adams is barely visible in the same direction.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Sir_Gallonhead
What even is the difference between left-libertarianism and right-libertarianism?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@MPmaster
jetpacks

Flameblow
Flameblow

@MPmaster
roads
he doesn't own a 4x4 amphibian vehicles with rocket launcher just in case

that's not how it works

massdebater
massdebater

@w8t4u
On top of that, I don't want there to be a shortage of land and people getting shot over that shortage of land because some boomer fuck bought up most of it and the state can't punish him for not developing it so people can actually live in a non third-world country

this actually sounds quite progressive my man.

What the elite has done in america, is convince the people that the left is enslaving, while capitalism liberates, when nothing, ever, in the history of the world could be farther from the truth.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Supergrass
calling a syndicalist a douchebag

keep working for that 4 dollars an hour user, I'm sure some suited guys who take boat trips to the Carribean appreciate your "work ethic"!

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Emberfire
no, user, we do understand it, it's just that it's baseless mental diarrhea that should not be considered at all

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@Flameblow
Most likely you will have been rocket launchered at some point, not the one with the rocket launcher

You:
that's okay I would die just for the knowledge that someone is actually rolling around in a Warthog type vehicle with a fucking rocket launcher, enacting Master Chief-tier realities

I swear, Ancaps are the biggest manchildren

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Fried_Sushi
(the joke) -->
-
-
-
(your head)

TreeEater
TreeEater

@LuckyDusty
Libertarians are an american meme.
Dont bring that jewish degeneracy to europe

SniperGod
SniperGod

I'm just amazed that you "libertarians" think you can be douchebags to anyone. Us real libertarians never talked about economic freedom until some started merging with the socialists. And it meant the opposite as to what you think it means.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@Methnerd
You're a retard.

girlDog
girlDog

@Crazy_Nice
ancap debating skills

StonedTime
StonedTime

@LuckyDusty
Because they are a meme.

How ancaps/libertarians imagine "freedom":
No unemployment because no welfare
Abolishing minimal wage results in an economic boom
Abolishing public shools leads to an increase of educationvalue
Capitalists paying low or no taxes will make them earn more and increase the wages of workers to boost their morale.

How it really would had been:
Unemployment and poverty everywhere because no welfare, and therefore no money for low-class unemployed people, leading them eventually to lose their homes, and nobody would hire a homeless person anyway.
Abolishing minimal wage will result in giving the low wages for the proletariat, which doesn't matter and doesn't have a choice anyway.
Abolishing public schools will lead to massive analphabetism, because of low wages of proletariat
Capitalist paying low or no taxes would let them have even more money, and become de facto a high caste or a nobility ruling the proles. The naiveness that they will increase wages to boost morale is in the case of ancaps/libertarians a result of their ignorance. Increasing the wage doesn't even boost morale of the workers anyway, so why should they do that when not enforced by the "evil" state to do so?

Illusionz
Illusionz

@girlDog
debate
What debate? I was replying to this.
no, user, we do understand it, it's just that it's baseless mental diarrhea that should not be considered at all

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

Congratulations, citizen. We've eliminated all progressive taxes and burdensome business regulations. You're free now!

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@LuckyDusty
Freedom as defined by right wing libertarians is a stupid meme, like freedom defined by liberals in general.
Don't get me wrong, marxists get freedom wrong too, they're just more coherent about it.

farquit
farquit

@StonedTime
@Fried_Sushi
Once again, you mistake minarchism for Ancap.
An Ancap government could very well have regulations, welfare, and a million other things, just as well as it could not have those things.
Ancap isn't a type of government, it's simply a philosophy towards to formation of a government.

likme
likme

@Harmless_Venom
How? What do you think right-wing libertarian freedom is, and what do you think real freedom is?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@farquit
I didn't. I wrote "ancaps/libertarians". The reduction or elimination of taxes and generally sucking the dicks of capitalists while overusing the word "freedom" applies to the both of them.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@farquit
buying ideology from the super-market shelf

we are already heading towards ancap, only history dictates it's a move dictated by the upper eschelons of society, not the "free volition of the masses".

see:
@StonedTime
Abolishing public schools will lead to massive analphabetism, because of low wages of proletariat

Betsy DeVos? Massive reforms that deteriorate public education in Europe?

Abolishing minimal wage results in an economic boom

GEE, I HAVEN'T HEARD THAT BEFORE!! REALLY MISTER?

TreeEater
TreeEater

@lostmypassword
@Bidwell
An Ancap state could very well have all of those things, it would just have to be consensual and contractual between the state that enacts these laws and the citizens living under them.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Gigastrength
What the fuck do you even mean by this? Betsy DeVos is completely irrelevant in this conversation, and not Ancap at all.
You continue to show you complete lack of understanding about what Ancap even is.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@TreeEater
Not only are you an ideologist, you're an idealist ideologist.

What about the current social contract user? Aren't democracies the will of the people? Don't we all want to be in danger of losing our homes to banks because of a robbery scam and don't we all hate our terrible public infrastucture?

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Gigastrength
Massive reforms that deteriorate public education in Europe?
Why do you even think that a lot of people in your "freedom" world would even have enough money to spend on private (and the only one) education?

Yea, first lower the minimal wage, then get rid of the welfare, and the working class would obviously have enough cash to pay for the education of their children... right?

Abolishing minimal wage results in an economic boom
The point is that even if the companies will have more money... the vast majority of people would not. What libretardians fail to realize that a growth of GDP =/= growth of the living standard for everyone.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@AwesomeTucker
I agree

I knew I wasn't clear enough when I posted it, but the "ancap" seemed to have understood it was directed towards them

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@AwesomeTucker
but if the companies arent taxed anymore, surely they will be more generious and give more of their profit to the worker. Ancaps 1 statists - 0

happy_sad
happy_sad

@TurtleCat
social contract
A contract one doesn't sign isn't a contract at all.
Democracies are the will of a majority, and that is not good enough. What about the minority? They don't want to do whatever it is the majority are forcing them to do, but they can't really leave, because they'd be forced to leave behind their property, that is, their land.
The difference is, in an Ancap society, the minority could leave. But they'd have to weigh it. What are the advantages of staying? Of leaving? In such a society where people recognize the immorality of keeping a person in a state against his will( And don't stary with the "Just move!" crap. It's keeping him against his will because you won't let him take his land with him, just as a person could be keeping me against my will because he's kidnapped my daughter), states would need to form with contractual constitutions. Continued in next post.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@happy_sad
A contract one doesn't sign isn't a contract at all.
playing with words

did you vote? pay taxes?

@happy_sad
They don't want to do whatever it is the majority are forcing them to do, but they can't really leave, because they'd be forced to leave behind their property, that is, their land.

who the fuck owns land?
Wait a minute: by "minority" do you mean the capitalists?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@happy_sad
in an Ancap society, the minority could leave
Not really, if he can't afford to buy property somewhere else. Infact most people don't even own any starting property to begin with.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@likme
Freedom in the modern sense is understood to be a lack of certain external restrictions, such as some rules or laws or regulations.
What freedom used to mean, is the internal state where reason drives the passion and not viceversa.

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Stark_Naked
but if the companies arent taxed anymore, surely they will be more generious and give more of their profit to the worker.
Why would they if an increase of the wages DOESN'T even boost staff morale?

Booteefool
Booteefool

@happy_sad
Now, what do I mean by a "contractual constitution?" Well, it's in the name.
Let's give an example.
I am an independent man, with no state and no land. I want to join a state, with all the benefits that brings. I look at all the ones near me, and see what they offer. One is a monarchy, one is a republic, one is a commune, and one is minarchist. I decide to go with the republic. I read their contract. It states that I will be beholden to their laws, will pay their taxes, and will be a loyal citizens. And they, in turn, will offer, say, welfare for the poor, enforcement of laws, a vote for me, will not change this law and that law, and are restricted in what they can change, et cetera.
I move in, and become wealthy. I purchase land. And now I no longer want to stay in this state. What do I do? I have the guaranteed right to leave, but not with my land, so long as they continue to keep up their end of the contract. So I wait for them to break it. Like, say, killing a mob boss without due process. I sue them for doing this. They had guaranteed due process in the constitution! What scoundrels! So I sue to secede. Now, I want to quickly join another state, because I'm an easy target for thieves as long as there's no real police force protecting me.
This is all an example of something that could happen in an Ancap society.

King_Martha
King_Martha

Forget about muh roads. I wanna know who secures peoples property in an ancap society. Do all major companies have standing armies? Like, if you own 15 factories in China, does half of your work force have to include Chinese mercenaries?

Wouldn't it make more sense in a capitalist POV to have every member of society finance the capitalists security forces?

likme
likme

@Gigastrength
did you vote? pay taxes?
I did not have a choice in that. I never said that I was giving up this right or that right in exchange for this benefit or that benefit, and neither did the state, you nut.
@Gigastrength
who the fuck owns land?
People who own land.
Wait a minute: by "minority" do you mean the capitalists?
I mean any minority that feels like its right are being stomped upon. Capitalists, Communists, Christians, blacks, model-train-enthusiasts, et cetera.
@BlogWobbles
Then he's losing nothing by simply moving with his feet to a state that seems to offer something else.@RumChicken
where reason drives the passion and not viceversa.
Ancap is perfectly logical.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

So basically the ideal ancap society looks pretty much like our current society except anybody can secede at any time?

Techpill
Techpill

@likme
Then he's losing nothing by simply moving with his feet to a state that seems to offer something else
So you still have to live on other peoples conditions? The freedom you have is simply "the freedom to choose your masters"?
Sounds very not-freedom to me

TreeEater
TreeEater

@King_Martha
Private companies. At that point, those private companies would likely offer other services, like, say, welfare, and could more properly be called states.
What's the difference between these states and our current states? You sign a contract to join those, while ours aren't necessarily consensual.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@likme
Ancap is perfectly logical
I've never seen anyone misunderstand this much a statement and at the same time making a reply that says something as meaningless as that.
Something being logical as nothing to do with it being reasonable or true. Even then, it has nothing to do with the misunderstanding of what freedom actually is.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Gigastrength
anybody can secede at any time?
If you sign a contract with your state saying that you can't secede, and you later decide to secede, while they've held up their end of the contract, no.
But if they break some constitutional law, then yes, you could rightfully secede.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Techpill
As long as he is not forced to, he's perfectly free. @Snarelure
reasonable or true
It's perfectly reasonable.

DeathDog
DeathDog

@TreeEater
Private companies.
So yes, companies will have armies on their payroll? How many troops do you think it will take to defend a couple of factories?
You sign a contract to join those
Meaningless drivel. If I live in your house without signing a contract, you can kick me out, can you not? So why can't a state do the same thing?

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@SniperWish
He is forced to accept some central authority which dictates who owns what. But that raises another question: Who decides who owns what in an ancap society?

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@likme

I mean any minority that feels like its right are being stomped upon. Capitalists, Communists, Christians, blacks, model-train-enthusiasts, et cetera.

they're not the same just because they're all minorities.

I never said that I was giving up this right or that right in exchange for this benefit or that benefit, and neither did the state

you didn't, but the state takes it for granted that you did and that's nowhere more apparent than democracies.

But since you are willing to fight this injustice, and I agree it's an injustice, how can it be resolved? Would you say a confederation of smaller, local assemblies could replace it?

girlDog
girlDog

@DeathDog
If I live in your house without signing a contract, you can kick me out, can you not? So why can't a state do the same thing?
Yes. But if you live on your own land, they can't kick you out just because they claim it's theirs.
And private companies could perfectly well have their own armies, if they think that's the best idea. Or they could sign up with a larger company that already has an army, like a state.
@GoogleCat
But that raises another question: Who decides who owns what in an ancap society?
Precedent.
Deciding who owns what is a tough question. Like if, say, in 1456 my ancestor was kicked out of his house. Can I claim that every owner afterward was illegitimate? At some point, the line must be drawn.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@SniperWish
It's perfectly reasonable.
Sure thing.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

@Need_TLC
the state takes it for granted
You should never take anything for granted. That's a poor argument.
Just allow people to, all at once, decide. Allow landowners to leave or stay at once. Then update our constitution to be much more comprehensive, simple, but loophole-less, and make it a contractual constitution.

Techpill
Techpill

@girlDog
Your land is still inside the countries border. It is not a fucking enclave. If you dont like the countrys policy, you could always sign a contract with a new nation.
See. There is no fucking difference outside dlimsy semantics.

Skullbone
Skullbone

@girlDog
This does not decide who owns what. It just tells me how you decide. Why do you assume everyone will follow your rule? And how do you even prove precedent to begin with?

SniperGod
SniperGod

@kizzmybutt
You should never take anything for granted. That's a poor argument.

Again with "should"...I'm telling you how history is.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Soft_member

humans are bushes
I ve also never heard of hobbes

Skullbone
Skullbone

@LuckyDusty
Freedom is the spook jews and rich faggots use to make cannon fodder and wagies to bust their asses off for no pay.

TechHater
TechHater

@TreeEater
You sign a contract to join those

"So, mate, I see your wife is in labour, would you sign a contract for your child? No? Well, it would be SUCH A SHAME if your child would be mishandled by our doctors and end up disabled or retarded"

Inmate
Inmate

@Skullbone
agreed, but then why are jews wagcucks too? Also, why did they oppose capitalism so much?

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@LuckyDusty
because political and economic freedom causes poverty, dictatorship and anarchy

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Techpill
It is not a fucking enclave.
It very well could be. If I want it to be an enclave, and I have no contract stating that I won't secede, it's my right to make my land an enclave.
@Skullbone
Why do you assume everyone will follow your rule?
Because it's a good rule. That's why I argue in favor for it.
And how do you even prove precedent to begin with?
Such bridges can be crossed as they're reached.
@SniperGod
I recognize how history is. That doesn't mean I shouldn't argue for how it should be. That's like telling me, after hearing me speak against murder, that murder happens, and I should get used to it.
@TechHater
We can assume that many of these contract-states would work virtually like our states, and that children would be automatically child-citizens, until they grow up and need to sign a regular contract.

Booteefool
Booteefool

'Anarcho'-capitalism is an oxymoron and is not a form of anarchism. Anarchism doesn't mean just opposing the state, it means opposing all forms of coercive hierarchy and authority. 'Anarcho'-Capitalism is better called feudalism.

Introduction to Anarchism
https://libcom.org/files/intro%20pamphlet%20reading.pdf

The Anarchist FAQ
http://www.infoshop.org/AnarchistFAQSectionA

Is 'Anarcho'-Capitalism a form of Anarchism?
http://www.infoshop.org/AnarchistFAQSectionF

'Anarcho'-Capitalism is impossible.
https://c4ss.org/content/4043

What is Property, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/pierre-joseph-proudhon-what-is-property-an-inquiry-into-the-principle-of-right-and-of-governmen

The Conquest of Bread, Peter Kropotkin
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread

Markets not capitalism
http://radgeek.com/gt/2011/10/Markets-Not-Capitalism-2011-Chartier-and-Johnson.pdf

askme
askme

@CodeBuns
Liberals hate political and economic freedom

massdebater
massdebater

@Playboyize
Keep making excuse for why you're a loser, I'm sure you haven't started your own business yet because you don't want to exploit anyone

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