Was Saladin a noble ruler or is that just a modern misrepresentation?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

Was Saladin a noble ruler or is that just a modern misrepresentation?

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Deadlyinx
Are you looking for an EBIN RED PILL XDDD or actual works detailing Saladin's rule in Egypt and his reconquest of Jerusalem?

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Methnerd
The latter.

Evilember
Evilember

@Deadlyinx
modern misrepresentation

No, the sources we have of the period match with a noble ruler image.

SniperGod
SniperGod

@Deadlyinx
It's a slight misrepresentation, but not a modern one. Westerners had been mythologizing him ever since the Third Crusade.

WebTool
WebTool

@SniperGod
ever since the Third Crusade.
But back then they depicted him as a demon not a noble ruler.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Deadlyinx
he was chivalrous with the European Kingdoms, but he was kind of a asshole with his people.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@RumChicken
he was kind of a asshole with his people.
Examples?

DeathDog
DeathDog

@WebTool
People demonize their enemies
What's new?

JunkTop
JunkTop

@DeathDog
No no no, I thought
@SniperGod
was saying that they made him out to be noble since the beginning not modern times.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

From what I gather, he did indeed treat others well, but it was more out of pragmaticism rather than being a pure paragon of virtue

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@WebTool
But back then they depicted him as a demon not a noble ruler.
No, they did the very opposite. It wasn't that uncommon during this period - there were tales of Zengi being the son of a noble Christian lady before Saladin. Even in the various gestas you'll find remarks about generic Saracen soldiers and officers that talk up their nobility and virtues. A lot of it probably comes from the desire of nobles for a noble enemy. Even the Song of Roland has that line for the King of Babylon: "God, what a knight, if only he were Christian!"

Not long at all after the Third Crusade, Saladin starts turning up in European poems and songs as a sort of wise man of the East that sneaks into Europe in disguise and offers sage advice or judges unvirtuous Christians for their shortcomings, as it makes the criticism all the more damning coming from the mouth of an infidel.

It's the reason why Saladin eventually turns up as one of Dante's virtuous pagans in hell.

What you're mistaking about that image is that Saladin is depicted as a demon, when in fact that image is showing him as Richard's equal - a finely armored knight jousting with the king. He's blue/dark because he's imagined as an alien race, but not because he's a demon.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

He wasn't the paragon of honour and virtue shown in Kingdom of Heaven (which inaccurately depicts him giving free passage to all Christians in Jerusalem, whereas in real life he made them all pay a ransom, and those that couldn't pay were enslaved), but neither was he a merciless warlord like an Attila or a Genghis either. He was above average in terms of honour for the time, but even still that's a fairly low standard to set.

Also, it isn't even that modern of a misinterpretation. As early back as 19th century Victorian England he was hailed as a noble and honourable warrior, basically the "noble savage" of Muslims. To Christians and Europeans he was basically like what they saw as the ideal Muslim warrior.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@CouchChiller
Nubian and Sudanese revolt, Saladin killed or slaved everybody he could find.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Playboyize
Nubian and Sudanese
his people

This a subtle KARA BOGA meme?

Firespawn
Firespawn

@Playboyize
nubian
sudanese
killed and enslaved

So?

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Poker_Star
He wasn't the paragon of honour and virtue shown in Kingdom of Heaven
To us, the historical Saladin wasn't. But to his European contemporaries he most certainly was seen as a paragon of honor and virtue. The movie captured the tone of his reputation in Europe back then.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Poker_Star
@Ignoramus
So the unflattering artwork is a product or racism not of thinking he was a bad guy?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@StrangeWizard
What about that is unflattering? The finely dressed blackamoor model is used a lot in Adoration of the Magi themed paintings.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Garbage Can Lid
So you're saying that the artist was using a contemporary artistic motif and that he wasn't trying to contrast the dark-skinned Saladin, with alien physical features, with the light skinned European in that painting?

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

@Firespawn
ummm, sweetie, the sudanese were an elite fatimid unit housed in the royal districts of cairo... i'm sorry you can't see past your eurocentrism

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@King_Martha
That painting was by Rubens. At the time, Moor had several different connotations. He probably chose to depict Saladin as a Blackmoor, because it was more exotic, as is typical of Tronies.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@King_Martha
alien physical features
It's just a black dude, dude. They were all the rage at European courts at that time, and represented exotic foreignness. The contrast was on purpose, but had nothing to do with one being good and the other bad - otherwise you wouldn't see the same figure next to baby Jesus as a wise man.

5mileys
5mileys

@Evil_kitten
fatimid
There's your problem, ma'am. To Saladin they were an armed mercenary troupe of a conquered enemy regime. They had to go.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@King_Martha
the artist was using a contemporary artistic motif
Shocking, isn't it? Works like this took weeks if not months of hard labor and focus. It's not exactly the canvas for /int/ style memes.

@haveahappyday
Tronies
This. It's literally a costumed stock character.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Poker_Star
@SomethingNew
@haveahappyday
That all makes perfect sense. I misinterpreted the painting.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@Deadlyinx
Saladin was a Mede.

massdebater
massdebater

@Need_TLC
this!

those poems ring true.

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