Anyone with any amount of dyelness welcome to talk about routine, programming, refeeds, when to bulk, when to cut, post progress, trip, shitpost about feels, do whatever.
Steroid/Sarm discussion, I urge you to take it to /fraud/, as they can better assist you with first cycle and etc obviously
There is a bodybuilding general in the form of /fraud/, /owg/, /plg/, but no resource on the board for people that want to learn more about bodybuilding specifically.
The general premise is that we train in sets of 8-12 ITT.
If you have a lot of knowledge or a good physique please trip up
I will trip mostly so people know that I *do not* have either of those things
>The general premise is that we train in sets of 8-12 ITT. nice meme retard
Jaxson Perry
saged
Elijah Wright
How exactly do you count calories and percentages? Do you have to use measuring cups and scales? How long does it usually take? I'd like to set up a rigorous diet, but don't have enough interest to do all that stuff all the time.
Logan Scott
as a rule of thumb, if a youtuber looks natty and is under 5'9 then he is natty.
Aaron King
try this wbesite called chronometer
it counts calories AND macros for you for FREE
I tried my fitness pall and it was so confusing and hard to use I switched to a pen and paper before I found chronometer
>measuring cups and scales
Yes if you wanna just eat random shit, gotta measure and weigh everything.
What is a lot easier, and a lot of people do, is to just make meals for the next couple days/week all at once, weigh it out, and package it in Tupperware containers and you know exactly how much you are eating and it's macros
>strengththeroy.com
the premise of that site is that their advice will make you stronger while the goal for bodybuilders is to get larger
Obviously it's hard for a beginner to do one without the other but the (idea) is that 8-12 results in more size less strength which is preferable
Robert Powell
>Natty Bodybuilding
youre not serious are you?
Ryder Cruz
>the premise of that site is that their advice will make you stronger while the goal for bodybuilders is to get larger you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
read the article linked in the image before you open your dumb dyel mouth again
or just read the fuckin image and try to comprehend what it's saying, it's fairly simple
Chase Bell
>myfitness pal was confusing and hard to use >being this retarded >thinking you're capable of giving advice
STOP
Nolan Campbell
>There is a bodybuilding general in the form of /fraud/, /owg/, /plg/, but no resource on the board for people that want to learn more about bodybuilding specifically.
THAT'S WHAT THE ENTIRETY OF Veeky Forums IS FOR
Justin Butler
>i use calorie count for my diet >i tried myfitness pal after starting calorie count because i wanted to see if it was better >its much more complicated, didnt even bother trying to figure it out that user isnt alone, i saw the "pay for premium" part of mfp and noped my way out of the app
Dominic Allen
I also have an image are you going to toss your training methodology in the trash now
The fact that PLs that care about strength train in low low rep ranges while BBs stick to 8-12 overwhelmingly seems to suggest that... if you want to get strong, lower rep ranges, and higher rep ranges to get larger.
This seems logical to me.
Aiden Morales
you are a fucking mongoloid
Brandon Davis
Certain foods, you enter, like ground beef, and the only fucking way to enter it is '1 package - Aldis" or "1 lb"
What if I want to enter 5.9 ounces because that's what I ate?
Shit is awful.
>giving advice
They 100% know who is giving them advice
>I will trip mostly so people know that I *do not* have either of those things >I will trip mostly so people know that I *do not* have either of those things
Also having a good physique is hardly, hardly relevant in terms of having an opinion on if MFP or chronometer is better, that's sort of, an opinion,
Carter Gonzalez
>insult >argument pick one
Jordan Roberts
he literally ignored the argument to go with his stupid broscience hearsay related to entirely enhanced bodybuilding
if you (or he) want to argue, go read the image, see that there are actual studies done to back up the image, then read the article on the website and understand that you're also a fucking mongoloid
Justin Diaz
Got this routine from another user's post. My goal is strength+a bit of size. user was working AxBxCDx as shown.
Is there any reason why I couldn't do ABxCDxx? Fits better with my schedule.
Any changes to said routine that you guys would recommend?
Tyler Gomez
You two are retarded and don't know how to use a simple app
Wait, do you think you're using a tripcode?
Christian Cook
>that's what Veeky Forums is for
No. It's for people to tell obese people that want to "look good on the beach" to "follow this routine made by a football coach to get people STRONGER for a SPORT, drink a GALLON of MILK a day, and AVOID CARDIO".
The prototypical user that actually takes his advice from the board instead of just taking advice from other sources and shitposting here will
1. Start at 30% bf.
2. Six month SS + Six month +2000 calorie a day bulk (Eat big get big).
3. Never count a calorie (for nerds)
4. Avoid cardio (Wouldn't want to murder those gains + why care about cardiovascular health)
At the end of this process they will emerge on t he beach looking like they got beached and be unable to walk up a flight of a flight of stairs
Sebastian Williams
why you do this d00d
Daniel Price
Ignore this imposter, I don't know who he is. I'm the real OP, I don't even know what's going on with that name
Jack Cruz
please stop, I'm the real OP
Michael Ortiz
faggots pls im the real alex here
Connor Stewart
Well this general has potential. One good thing Strengtheory did was amalgamate natural bbing calculators to get a decent range of estimation for your potential. For instance me being 5'9 with my wrist and ankle circumferences I can be about 180 lb at 10% or 165 at 5% completely shredded stage ready.
Zachary Brooks
Nice use of photoshop faggot, stop trying to derail my thread
Stop
Daniel Scott
You can get strong as long as you ramp up the weight every workout. You can get mass as long as you have the volume.
That is it. That is all.
Also, 8-12 reps has been recently stated to be optimal for new trainers or completely untrained individuals. And it's been shown that simple calisthenics and stretching are superior for every single person at every stage of life in ever single society that has at any point concerned itself with physical fitness.
Your rebuttal?
Benjamin Jackson
>5% bf >natty
'No'
Grayson Rodriguez
how do i get a thicc waist without looking like a fatfuck
Blake Brown
I'm not going to argue with you if you're just gonna ignore the studies and argue around them
when controlled for volume, there is no difference in hypertrophy between sets of 5 reps or sets of 8-12 BUT sets of 5 are better for strength. 8-12 is an old school broscience meme.
Ian Young
Unilateral upper body movements are great at building obliques
Circus db press, one arm farmers walk, turkish get ups
Liam Cruz
WELL WHAT IS IT YOU FUCKS DO I GO 8-12 OR SHOULD I GO 5x5??
I want to get bigger but I don't want to be jacked and not be able to lift as much as I like like I can
Carter Torres
OP your thread is a fucking trainwreck, just quit while you're ahead
Jose Gonzalez
It's POSSIBLE to get to 5% bodyfat as a natural. But by god, they will HATE themselves and the entire goddamned world while they take up the broken glass bottle covered road to get there.
Those guys will have lower test levels then fucking castrates and look horribly deflated and lose a good amount of muscle mass in the process.
I honestly have no idea why natural men have to follow the rules of the BBer when it comes to looking good as a bodybuilder.
Going below 11% should be seen as something that naturals should not do.
Can I ask you guys something. Do you think all natural men should be advised against going below 10-12% bodyfat and sort of push beach body fat levels as the norm?
Jordan Walker
Work up to a daily technical max of 1-3 reps in primary movements to drive strength and then do backoff sets anywhere from 5-20 reps to drive size
Jason Hughes
8% is actually the lowest you can go before your hormones really crash. I think 8-12 is optimal for male function, 15 is honestly fat let's be real
Parker Rivera
Got it, thanks
Caleb Hughes
1-3 is actually better for strength. And 8-12 when controlled for weight will actually get you comparable strength gains, but because of the volume will also get you more muscle mass. And it's been shown that bodybuilding type workouts are optimal for complete beginners and beginner powerlifting stuff is quite litterally for people who have some low amount of physical fitness already.
Thomas Howard
Powerlifter here, but I also want to develop a certain level of aesthetics. I bench press four times a week and have started to add in a 3-4 sets of 10-15 curls after most sessions, but my arms still seem small, especially my biceps. Any tips?
Jace Lee
Hey, we're talking about rep ranges, and no one is whining about how they don't have girlfriends.
5x5 for sure
Jaxon Miller
>And 8-12 when controlled for weight you have no fucking clue what "controlled for" means
I'm out
Gavin Gonzalez
Are you getting a pump when you curl? If not then your form is bad. Don't neglect the contribution of the brachioradialis in arm size.
Michael Lee
>posts a paint scribble >Look I have a picture too XD >bb.com >See my website is better than urs xd
Kill yourself bro.
Jacob Flores
Alex should I bulk or cut. 160lbs 5'7
Ethan Wright
Cut you are looking soft. But some decent size
Zachary Watson
>newfag who takes memes seriously is gonna give people ""advice""
Kek
Jaxson Martinez
I get a pump, yeah. I do my sets super strict then sometimes go for a burnout with cheat reps and lighter weight. I usually do a mix of hammer curls and pronated to supinated grip
Charles White
this desu
from what people say, their dick stops working and they get depressed at contest bf % of 7.5%, some even at 8% have this problems.
triceps are the biggest muscle in your arms so work your triceps too
work your forearms or they'll be disproportionately small
mast's wrist roller really helped my forearms go from toothpicks to slightly 1% larger toothpick's and I highly recomend
IMO V taper is the most important thing to looking good so maybe do some pull ups too
Bentley Lopez
Lot of seals and special ops guys sit around 12-15% because it's apparently optimal for male health and needed for when they need extra energy to keep them alive.
Anyway, the amount of effort natural, like really really natural guys, go through to maintain a sub double digit bodyfat is ridiculous and basically kills their libido and normal test production.
I think we should push 10-13% bodyfat as being a male fitness ideal.
Austin James
reee no bully me dude
probably bulk you're looking really natty and dyel desu you could use the size
youll be BIG like me one day dont worry
Wyatt Thomas
Jesus christ dude are you 12? The dude posted several studies that literally PROVE the opposite of what you're saying, and all you do is say "no ur wrong" and continue spewing the bullshit you learned from bb.com like a fucking mantra.
Leo Ross
I work my triceps a lot with bench, I do need to get onto some wrist/forearm work. I'll look into wrist rollers. What do you think of farmers walks or wrist curls?
Hudson Clark
Explain it to me.
Jack Price
Ah well then I have no advice to give lad except for increase frequency to 3-4x/week if you're not there already
You make a good point about resisting stress under dire circumstances. I was thinking of function more of in modern life lol, wearing suits having a sharp jawline slaying puss.
wrist rollers are hands down the best forearm builder, can work both pronators and supinators with it, easy on the joints because you can make it almost all concentric. wrist curls feel awful on the joint to me, farmers great for building strength but not so much size
Justin Bailey
Just jump on test already with me bby and we can eat Taco Bell together and make gains.
Nicholas Flores
>tries to argue acting like he knows he's some kind of expert on the field >throws around statements like "it's been shown that x" without backing them up >gets called the fuck out on his bullshit
>ok lol pls explain 2 me xd
Kys senpai
Aaron Reed
Did you actually read any of those fucking studies?
Isaac Carter
people un-ironically bulk at 35% bf and unironically just 'eat as much as you can natty' bulk
look
everyone is saying 'bulk bulk' out of hopes that he comes back with a "progress" pic in 6 months for them to laugh at
very mean spirited
Plus, if you are a typical fat fuck, and someone tells you that you can keep being a fatty, (actually, you can eat MORE than ever before now!) and that is just IDEAL for asthetics, well, they're gonna "lean bulk" (at 40% bf)
Blake Martinez
fuck that is some disgusting skin
Lucas Edwards
The most you know about the subject comes from a picture that you or someone else constantly posts. You know up there in the sticky? That thing with the dinosaur? Go listen to what Mcdonald actually says about putting on muscle mass. Go look at what people who aren't getting paid to push strength training or have some kind of ulterior motive says about it.
Actually fucking read about the subject.
Ian Davis
My friend says he uses this as a supplement to his protein intake, but I'm admittedly not experienced with anything outside of pre-workout and whey. There's not a definite answer I can find online about this but I think its supposed to help your body get the most out of your protein by processing more and help with recovery? I don't know, can anyone weigh in
Ian Ramirez
Great rebuttal bro. Go read up and then come talk to me again.
Ayden Allen
>start pinning >as a skeleton >that hasn't started noob gains yet >bulk obviosuly on cycle >my skin literally explodes as I gain weight so rapidly >next thing I know, I am one giant stretch mark
24/7 free tony the tiger cosplay how could I turn it down?
Are you the guy in CBT that says he's from hawaii?
Logan Ward
No I'm not from Hawaii lol. And you'll be fine I started pinning at 113lbs. Not many stretch marks either.
Hunter Fisher
> roiding for this
Sebastian Phillips
That's what you're going with. A tacit admittance of ignorance.
Xavier Martin
"controlled for" means you're comparing two different things with an identical control value to see whether it changes
how I used it earlier: >when controlled for volume, there is no difference in hypertrophy between sets of 5 reps or sets of 8-12 BUT sets of 5 are better for strength.
in other words, when you're doing the same volume, 5 reps sets are better for strength than 8-12 and the same for hypertrophy, so 8-12 is FUCKING POINTLESS
you can't just say "8-12 controlled for weight" it makes no fucking sense. and obviously if you're comparing the same weight but one set is done at 8 reps and the other is done at 5 then the 8 reps set will fucking win, you can lift a higher percentage of your 1RM when you do fewer reps
anyway you're a fucking idiot beginner talking about things he doesn't understand just like the rest of Veeky Forums
I thought I'd read the thread just to make fun of Alex but fuck that, Veeky Forums outside fraud is a goddamn cesspool of garbage
Jose Gonzalez
>proprietary blend Generally code for underdosed ingredients, if those ingredients are even present. Particle-sized BCAA sounds pretty meme tier--speed of digestion really isn't that fucking important. EAAs only is a pretty good move though.
I wouldn't buy it but I would throw it in if I got a free tub.
Kayden Thompson
Yea they're not magic I still have a shit diet I eat fast food daily and workout for maybe 30-40 mins a day. I'm in college very busy with work and school I just like steroids and making gains at a faster rate with minimal effort. Show me your body I bet I'm still ahead.
Aiden Cruz
Who here constantly overtrains and knocks hard?
Jaxson Cruz
Your base was pathetic and youve used drugs to gain muscle. Good luck with gaining or maintaining mass once you come off with your no doubt pathetic nutrition.
Oliver Morris
So it is for recovery and better protein synthesis. I walked into a local vitamin shop and the owner was a lifter who let me get it for 15 off to try it
Zachary Bennett
>come off nice meme
Julian Murphy
>making gains think again bud you're taking steroids for shit gains but you like it save your money next time you want to pin and just work out natty, you look like it
Adam Nguyen
> steroids > not magic > make gains with minimal effort > make excuses for terrible progress whilst dealing with magic
Brody Jackson
Yea I won't be coming off ever bud.
Carter Foster
>No difference in hypertrophy between 30% 1RM & 80% 1RM.
Is this legit? If so why am I working so hard?
Jonathan Sanchez
I mean it might make a 5% difference but the other 95 is lifting eating sleeping correctly. They're marked up hugely in shops so letting you get it for 15 off is really just selling it at internet retail price
Angel Davis
Show me your current body I couldn't have gone from 113 to 160 fgt.
Kevin Bell
because doing billions of reps is boring, it's harder to know when you're approaching failure, and because strength is fun
Robert Martin
>thought I'd read the thread just to make fun of Alex but fuck that, Veeky Forums outside fraud is a goddamn cesspool of garbage
You see my frustration? I talked about it in fraud but bimbo got triggered. There is very little resources for newbies here, just actual toxic advice.
The only reason I made any fucking progress AT ALL is because of the fucking roid general thread. How sad is that?
Why do you think Natties pollute ur general?
>make fun of Alex
Dude I do it fine just by myself l0l you can't possibly say anything or do anything that makes me look worse than I do with blogposts
///immune///
Yeah don't worry he is just pissed you look better than he does.
Why these people spend their lives comparing themselves to other I will never understand, you could be number two placed at the Olympia and still an insecure wreck with this attitude
I cannot even understand in what universe it effects his life what you pin
Nathan Bennett
Big words coming from some dipshit who likes to throw terms around he doesn't even know.
You got btfo m8, just shut your retard mouth
Isaac Ortiz
>show me your current body to prove I couldn't put in the work for my body and I still don't kekekekeke I won't tell ya what to do with your money though friend
Colton Moore
legit if you're blasting and cruising and look like that your pathetic. let me tell you this, you might think now that blasting and cruising is a great idea, but guess what. peoples priorities change and their goals change, and so will yours. I have so many friends that are above 100kg and 8%bf and blast and cruise and their biggest regret is doing it. Not using drugs itself but blasting and cruising, reason why? your HPTA is FUCKED, well and trully fucked.
Chance of having kids? probably sub 5%. Come of drugs? guess what? no more fucking boners or sex or sex drive. "Oi bruh il just pct".not a chance of being back at normal levels of test....EVER. So guess who now has to shoot test e every week for the rest of their lives just to remain in a state or normality.
and guess what, these are guy who look fucking epic, your going to do it to yourself AND YOU LOOK LIKE SHIT.
If you arent a competitive BBer, blasting and cruising is not for you. Im all for blasting and cruising if youve had children and are using test and these other drugs while or HRT/TRT. But to do it while your in your 20s is rediculous. Especially when your not even close to your natural potential. Your doing so much more harm than good.
James Foster
Oh well sorry. I spent my time working out and playing sports rather then jacking off over english books. So you know.
Anyway, You can gain as much strength by doing 8-12 reps and superior mass.
This has been proven basically everywhere.
Once again. Your rebuttal.
Joseph Sanchez
lol 70kg and on drugs, i was 70kg at 16 years old before lifting. thats actually so sad.
Easton Brooks
No big words here bruh. Just asking you to put up or shut up.
Nathan Edwards
Here's your (you)
Dylan Taylor
This is the level of stupidity that bullshit bb.com articles peddle
William Carter
Yo d00d stop
It's not a competition. Someone else pinning to make progress that's not possible for us doesn't diminish what you are doing and have done, or anything
The only thing that anyone could do on gear that's bad is competing in a drug tested league
He's not so it doesn't effect your life. Let go of this totally irrational anger.
Just accept that natty gains are slow and painful or start pinning already
Living your life pissed about what another man does with his money and body is stupid
The idea here wasn't 'let's bitch and whine that people use roids' more 'tLk about how to make gains in size' and avoid falling for meme power lifter routines
Jacob Johnson
Add higher deadlift volume man, that's a quick way to find you limit. Operate under a laod that won't stress you joints so much breh.
Elijah Sullivan
>contradicts over a handful of studies proving the opposite >doesn't post a single reference
Wew lad
Zachary Torres
I always thought that face you make showing off your jaw gains from mastic gun was literally you puckering your lips and having your mouth open at an angle for muscle representation. Little did I think that's how you actually try to keep your jaw at all times. Why are you so autistic. How do you fail so hard at not listening to all the people telling you what you're doing is wrong. Do you lack that little voice in the back of your head or is it autistic as well.
Thomas Jackson
>mfw 5'8" and 160 before lifting >mfw natty at that You're not a manlet too are you?
Elijah Nguyen
wong mate sorry,
Most people gain more strength between 3-5 reps as opposed to 8-12.
Theres a difference between strength and hypertrophy training.
Both arnold and Coleman have both said they trained in powerlifting style routines. And theyre probably the 2 most successfuyl Mr O's of all time.
Dominic Campbell
It's missing a column titled "Aesthetics Effect"
Kayden Williams
Eh just started to blast and cruise because every time I cycled in the past would lose everything post due to my lack in diet slash poor lifting habits. And I'll still have kids one day look at the pros bro
Jeremiah Carter
what exactly do you think hypertrophy is
William Watson
>chronometer
nice site you got there
Jordan Bailey
But I read that sufficiently strenuous exercise can get you roughly the same amount of VO2/max as cardio.