If you have been lifting for less than 3years, skip this thread

roids.

t. lifting for 7 years

The guy is 6ft3, the roider trip bimbo has like 20" arms and looks half this guys size.

>looks half this guys size
no he doesn't, you need your eyes looking at mate
looks substantially bigger than OP's pic

Lifting 4 years, perhaps possible with elite of the elite genetics but this guy most likely uses gear.

That is the guy in ops pic lol

Worst fucking post.

Possible but extremely unlikely

Keep in mind that it's also shooped (YES I know it's hard to understand for some nerds that all pics are not 100% legfit)

I don't get what your trying to even say, the guy is huge he is 250lb and lean.

He does have a lot of muscle mass, but he can't be lower than 12% body fat. Rest of his proportions are not that extreme.

MAYBE if you have great genetics and you have been an athlete all your life

Since you're asking I doubt you have either of those going for you so no.

Roids
Never natty, also this guy on the picture has just been taking up lifting as of recent, you can tell by the shit chest he has (not in general but in relation to the rest of his development), because he doesn't know how to bench and uses shoulders instead of pecs for it

Also those lean arm size is something natties will never ever get

>but he can't be lower than 12% body fat

Wtf, why?

Those traps and delts make me scream no, maybe with 10/10 genetics and a pump.

Thanks!

>tfw having extremely similar chest insertions
>tfw not roiding so chest looks like absolute shit anyways
Give me one reason not to hop on protons right now

Pic one of those green lines.

Abs are barely showing separation?

brain damage

Depends on genetics

There are extreme responders to volume training, as there are guys who don't respond to gaining mass at all but are explosive as fuck and put really good numbers

it all comes to your genetics

Obviously if you have been lifting for three years and barely bench over 200lb for reps with good form (not shaking every fucking fiber of your body) then you are just fucking around and not even trying

Depends on your height too... I'm 5'6 and I get gains easily when i lower my training weight and do more sets for less reps. I used to do 3x3 90-100% for a long time on T bar rows, then i changed to a 6x6 70% controlled with a lot less weight and my gains exploded. Did the same for weighted dips and it worked good

Also this may trigger powershitters but weighted dips are much better for gains than bench... I see too many guys benching a lot but shaking like mad it seriously makes me cringe

This phisique is possible for natties, only if you have good genetics and you are pumped.

If wanna walk everyday with body like this, no its not possible.

>pic related Omar isuf

At that low bf natties simply cannot have big arm size, sure his chest, abs and shoulders are not that "impressive", still look really fucking good, but arms are way too big at that bf.

This dude is probbably typical curl bro, since they dont bench and do compounds their major muscles don't get full pontential of their test boosting, unlike arms which they dedicate 1/5 of their training split.

dont tell me to skip shit faggot

yes. the only think that will be elusive is the dryness this guy has, everything else is attainable... if you have similar insertions

t. natty lifting for 10 years

The inner part of his chest is really weak if you look at it. Especially considering it's probably shopped. Actually his pecs aren't full at all. Now imagine this with way less mass and more fat, which emphasizes the weak mid-portion even more, making it look even worse and then you have my chest. So no, you definitely don't have to pick one.

It isn't unbelievable that he's natty, but unless he's really short I doubt it.

Isn't that like 22%?

No.

t. lifting for 9 years

Only if ur on IF with no carbs except pre and post workout.

>t. lifting for 9 years
This is completely meaningless.
There was a thread yesterday where a guy had been lifting for 10 years and just hit 225 bench. 2 years of serious lifting is better than 10 of fucking around.

Well, good thing for me I've benched 4plate at my best.

I dont know manm it might be possible

>pic is me

I'm natty weight 193 6'0 . Ive been doin this shit for like 7-8 years.

MAybe, but i'm not sure if you could be that thick

definitely possible but people will say otherwise. Keep in mind that the dude in OP's pic is 5'9. Like if you've been lifting heavy and eating somewhat decent for 7-10 years, you'll look similar to OP's pic. The only people that will scream roids are people that have just started lifting.

That is good, im just saying on fit most people are lazy and stupid. So when someone says theyve been lifting for 5+ years and they dont look a certain way yet you gotta assume they just suck.

Doubtful. His delts are like boulders which usually screams roids. His traps and biceps also seem disproportionately developed compared to his relatively weak chest, again a sign of roiding.

Hard to tell because it's low res but it looks like like they shopped his gyno out too if you look at his nipples.

You guys want to know what is typically possible to do natty?

Just look at the guys at your gym. Can you honestly say anybody there has actually changed their bodies significantly compared to the first time you saw them?

Personally the only thing I have seen is some fattys who manage to lose some weight. I have never seen a skelly become built IRL. All the built guys already were like that (since the juice gets them there in a few months time).

There is no such thing as naturally becoming really ripped over many years time.. 99% of people gain a bit the first 6 months, then stay more or less the same (at least form the point of view of somebody who can see them from time to time over the years in the gym).

Im sure people make some marginal strength gains... but true transformations are not possible natty, and certainly not when you take a picture from more than a few feet away

>t. someone who hasn't lifted more than 10 months

this is stupid as fuck

there are thousands of people who go through legit transformations. what the fuck are u even talking about

>t. someone who has lifted 3+ years, with no significant results

it takes like 2 years natty to see real deal results.

wut

then your diet is shit and your training is shit, don't try to say otherwise. You're like one of those fat girls who has "worked out and dieted for years with no results." Reevaluate and move forward.

Those are nothing like the transformations you typically see on the instagrams though.

Sure people lose some fat and get some tiny baby abs, but people just do not get THICC natty. Sorry

Although, if you already have a big frame before starting, of course you can look quite impressive -- but that's not my point. Natty training will never make a DYEL or skelly built.

>sorry, my anecdotal evidence and personal experience is 100% truth

don't believe the memes dude. Put in the work, you will get the results you desire.

You can't get taller if that's what your saying. But anybody can become a 6-7 and a 6-7 is fuckable

I love these lose, beta, know-it-all-and-you-can't-convince-me-otherwise attitudes. These are the same dudes that end up in marriages with women that fuck other men hahahahahahahahahahahaha

loser***

post even one actual impressive transformation where you can with even 80% confidence say it is natty.

> you can't

the entire fitness/supplement industry hinges on this brainwashing of dyels, making them believe natty training has any point beyond fighting the sniffles

just look at top athletes, that are regularly tested, like sprinters from some dyel country in europe -- all DYEL as fuck, and they all use gear, but have to avoid the most effective ones

>Natty training will never make a DYEL or skelly built.

This is a sad truth desu. If you're a skelly and you want to look like Klokov, you need to start training when you're 17 or get on gear. There's really nothing else you can do. Granted you can look pretty good by normie standards but you'll never really have that thicc look that everyone that lifts secretly desires.

my stats are 2/3/4/5

all I'm doing is giving some helpful advice so you do not have to waste years of your youth on marginal or non-existent gains

neither can you because you're not with that person 100% of the time to make sure they're not shooting up in the bathroom or something. You're just using confirmation bias to justify a belief you already have. I can say the same thing: show me a transformation that 100% screams steroids with ACTUAL proof. It's almost impossible to do outside of speculation. Shut the fuck up.

im natty, i think I had a pretty nice transformation. I looked even worse than the before picture I just stayed away from cameras.

...

what? that is easy as fuck

He is on steroids
You could get near that, great diet, a bit higher body fat and smaller arms and shoulders

you lost some body fat, but do you really think you gained significant size? It does not look like your shoulders or even arms got significantly bigger.
I would guess if you hold your arms loose and measure biceps it is about 15"?

you don't understand what I'm saying. I'm saying you can't 100% for sure say someone is natty/not natty unless they admit it. Take pic related for example, do you think it's natty? If not, why? Where is your proof?

Arnold admitted on video. Problem?

The guy in your pic just proves my point -- a skele dyel went from high-bf to low-bf, with no real change in THICCness

that's about right. I dont know what you are trying to say.

word of mouth is not concrete evidence. I'm not saying I don't think arnold used gear, I do, but unless you have 100% scientific evidence other than "look he just SCREAMS roids" your argument is invalid. The same thing applies to skinny dudes that get huge, the only "evidence" you have is that no one in your gym has had a good transformation and your argument of "he didn't get THICC". You lose.

nobody in the entire world has had a natty transformation from skele to THICC

what is the point of trying to give people unrealistic beliefs about fitness?

I really don't understand what you are trying to do here.. even if there is 0.001% of people with freak genetics who can do something reasonable natty the point still stands

what is the point of your posts? do you really believe that I am wrong?

I am not saying you can't get a good body by normie standards, I am saying that the body that 99% of people actually want can never happen, and there is a huge investment from the industry to keep the lies alive (anybody who stops lying and admits use will lose all sponsorships and jobs)

depends on genetics. you could, but it's very hard, and maybe after like 5 years of pumping supplements and high food in you with intense training, then cutting for a month or two prior to taking this picture and probably being dehydrated.

but you can do it

>nobody in the entire world has had a natty transformation from skele to THICC
not an argument

>what is the point of trying to give people unrealistic beliefs about fitness?
YOUR opinion, not an objective belief. Fitness applies to other areas rather than just vanity

>I really don't understand what you are trying to do here.. even if there is 0.001% of people with freak genetics who can do something reasonable natty the point still stands
How many people in the gym are following 100% accurate macros, training regimens and supplementation? This is the real reason you don't see many crazy transformations--people are lazy, you included.

>what is the point of your posts? do you really believe that I am wrong?
Do I believe your wrong in that no one has EVER had a good transformation without the use of steroids? Yes, I disagree and think you're wrong.

>I am not saying you can't get a good body by normie standards, I am saying that the body that 99% of people actually want can never happen, and there is a huge investment from the industry to keep the lies alive (anybody who stops lying and admits use will lose all sponsorships and jobs)
Now you're shifting the finish line to fit your beliefs. What is your definition of a "good body"? Ronnie Coleman or OP's pic? Because Ronnie's can't be achieved without steroids but OP's pic can.

>Just look at the guys at your gym.

Was this about them?

That means you're retarded, not that natty lifting gives you NOTHING.

Yes you are literally completely retarded. Your mind is fucked up and you're suffering body dysmorphia.

nah you're just a shitter that doesn't apply himself or train correctly

OP pic is a good body.. that was what the thread is about

anything less is not.

Thus, I did not shift my view at all.

What does it matter if people don't follow the 100% optimal way to train, the conclusion is that on average people will look like dyels even after 8 years of natty training. Some people just have higher goals than that, I guess. And my point of my posts here was to enlighten some people that they are wasting a hughe amount of time in the gym for minimal gains.

in 5-6 years you will understand what I was getting at here, if your goals are also high.

for reference I OHP >2 plates; I have already been through this tourney. I have 10 years in the gym behind me, and I did reach my goals eventually. But even at 4+ plates squat and 5+ plates deadliest for reps, my body did not change from lanklet into THICC by any stretch of the imagination. Sure I look bigger and stronger than 99% of people who work out, but if your goals are high, you can reach this level in ~2 years on juice. So, don't waste your time, is all Im saying, especially if you have other goals in life that could use more time investment

Look at the pictures bray, picture 1 and 2 from left, count the pixels in a cross section over the biceps (it is exactly the same before and after), and approximately same distance from camera.

>even at 4+ plates squat and 5+ plates deadliest for reps, my body did not change from lanklet into THICC by any stretch of the imagination.
were you on a caloric surplus for long enough to become THICC? if not stfu

mirin hard

Post body or stfu you fucking deluded idiot.

Its kind of decieving that pic. I had years in the gym in the before picture, then I went on a downward spiral for a few months. and got fat. But it's not like you lose 6 years of gym work over a few months. I'm gonna try to find a real before pic

I've been lifting since I was 14 and I'm now 27, your argument doesn't seem any less silly to me.

What does it matter if people don't follow the 100% optimal way to train, the conclusion is that on average people will look like dyels even after 8 years of natty training.

Because if they don't train, eat and supplement properly, they will still look "DYEL" as you put it. This is why so many people look like shit even after lifting for so long. They don't train properly, they don't eat properly, they don't record macros and weights lifted, etc. It's not genetics, it's laziness. Results will vary slightly but if you're been training for as long as you claim you have, and you've been following proper procedures in and out of the gym, you wouldn't look like shit. Either you're lying or you're the second coming of Jesus.

>you could get a good body in 2 years on juice
No one is arguing that, we're arguing that a good physique is possible to get without juice. Will it take longer and require more attention to detail? You bet your ass. But it's not impossible. To say "NO ONE" has ever had a good transformation is childish at best.

Gr8 m8

Yes, but what is the point of being THICC at really high bf%? I guess at my heaviest I was kind of bear-mode and thick if you only care about volume, but that just isn't the look anybody really wants. After cutting, so much size/hardness just goes to shit really fucking fast as a natty if you try to reach the really low bf numbers.

Is he natty?

post pics of body then pussy or stfu

why'd you leave the water running you roid cunt

Buddy I don't know what the fuck you're talking about but I got thicc enough to need an entirely new wardrobe when I went from skelly to 2pl8 squats, nevermind 4pl8.

That being said it's extremely rare for someone over 6 feet to look thicc, this is one area where manlets are objectively superior. Your thighs and arms will always look slimmer than a manlet's who is lifting the same weight as you.

na

ofc. as natty as clarence

wew. this whole post is off m8.
it is genetics. i ate rice and sardines for years and still got jacked and stronger each year. i worked hard but genetics played a large factor. counting macros and recording workouts don't matter unless you are competing.

just saying you didn't get thicc because your diet wasn't in order to be thicc. thats all. after cutting people always think i am bigger because i am leaner and the hardness increases when looking at my muscles. sorry man i cant relate (genetics...)

Probably not

Keep in mind most people here are ~19yo, and want to look like OP pic, way before they are close to 30yo. That is effectively impossible, but really easy when enhanced.

I just really dislike the propagation of unrealistic results. People should know what they can expect and what is possible. It would be kind of silly to say to somebody that they first have to go on powerlifting routines for 8 years or more, and then cut down drastically while losing most of their hard earned strength, to achieve OP pic, for a few weeks time at best. Seems kind of futile, doesn't it?

I would greatly prefer if people were just told the truth instead. And given solid advice. If they want OP pic body, then they should get to know what it takes to get it in a reasonable time-frame.

>this whole post is off
AKA you don't have an argument other than anecdotal evidence from your own personal life. Nice way to prove your point lol

the body fat is just too damn low. You have to literally do cardio everyday. Its achievable if you a life long athelete otherwise no.

not even. genetics = aesthetics. never forget that

why do you think most people here are 19? what makes you think were not the same people here 8+ years ago in their 30s and 40s? Why did you come here from reddit and decide the demographic of this place..

probably because he's from /r9k/ and they make up fantasies to support their fucked up world view

there have been countless of polls regarding the average poster's age

>OP pic is a good body.. that was what the thread is about
>anything less is not.
There's YOUR problem.