Why are there so many Anglo-Saxon Saints? There's like 100 Saints from Anglo-Saxon times, with many being kings, why was the pope do trigger-happy for sainthood?
Anglo-Saxon Saints
Because the pagans were hard to convert. Their gods were transformed into saints in order to fit in the "christianity" category.
They weren't gods though, just ordinary people who were either killed by vikings or built a church
Bump
There was more than a little competition between the Celtic church and the English one so to make them shut the fuck up the Pope handed out sainthoods like mad, this is why you hear memes about Anglicanism always being a thing
Weren't they both catholic though? Also, did St Augustine of Canterbury contribute more to the Anglo-Saxon conversion or did contact with the Christian Britons influence them more?
(Picture not related, i just like the Lindisfarne gospels)
>Weren't they both catholic though?
They were both Catholic but as with all organizations you have rivalries, the Celtic church based out of Iona saw themselves as the true church leaders of the isles and looked down on the English church
>did St Augustine of Canterbury contribute more to the Anglo-Saxon conversion or did contact with the Christian Britons influence them more?
Neither, continental pressures were the real push factor to the Christianization of England
The English Catholic Church was quite literally the most holy and pious of all the Catholic Churches. The popes loved the English. Canterbury was also a position of high esteem and power in the middle ages.
Ultimately it was that same holiness and piety that led them to be so open to the idea of separating with Rome when they went full autismo-corrupt in the 1400s. If you study the English Reformers, most of them hated Luther and wished to create a pure version of Catholicism, not radical Protestantism.
Why would England become Christian, but Scandinavia remains Heathen?
Pictured is Saint Chad of Mercia
Also this is an Anglo-Saxon saint picture thread so post images as well please
The Anglo-Saxons were Orthodox, as explained in this link
romanitas.ru
Because no one cares about Scandinavia
>The English Catholic Church was quite literally the most holy and pious of all the Catholic Churches.
This seems biased, are you sure about this?
An orthodox aesthetic doesn't mean they were orthodox, all of the Christian missionaries to England were Catholic
This is a very good read.
The chism had not happened yet, there was no "orthodox" or "catholic", just the catholic orthodox church of Nicene christianity.
Well the missionaries were sent by the pope and I thought western Christianity was Catholic anyway
St Edmund the Martyr
Bump for Æthelberht of Kent
Alcuin is the greatest desu
It isn't true though
Not a saint, Pretty much the opposite of one but I always found Penda interesting
The English church from it’s conception was more Orthodox in structure rather than Catholic, and was only centralized under the Pope when the Normans invaded (blessed by the Pope due to the Anglo-Saxons not having a church under Papal control). This is why there was such a great change in clergy and church after the Norman conquest, all of which was explained in my link.
Bloody Normans
Pretty sure the pope blessed it because Harold Godwinson swore on religious relics that he would give the crown to William, but when he crowned himself he flouted the sanctity of the agreement
His life was really neat.
Yes, follow those trustworthy Norman historians, they sure know what’s correct.
They all became Lutheran eventually. You have to understand that before Scandinavians became ikea-building gay boys, they were basically considered sea-mongols. If the Christians didn't consider them demons all together, they would have no less been very hostile to any of these foreign virgin missionaries trying to tell them what to do.
The first Viking raids took place in 793 AD at Lindisfarne priory, whereas England was converted about 100 years prior, so I don't see why a Christian mission was sent to convert the Norse heathens before anyone knew they were demonic pirates
*200
...
Not the poster, but could you explain, as I too thought that Heathen gods were incorporated into Christianity to smooth the transition
More gospel
England was a former part of the roman empire, catholics already had a foothold there, unlike in scandinavia. They first struggled to keep control over their former lands after the roman empire collapesed
Actually now I wonder if it is disproportionate to the rest of Europe. Did other European countries have loads of Saints during the dark ages?
Bump
Why do so few people take interest in the Anglo-Saxons?
I for one want to learn Old English, I find them quite interesting and see why others, such as Tolkien took such an interest.
Some gods were continued to be venerated as saints. To say that all saints, or most saints were formally gods though is brainlet tier.
I genuinely got interested in Anglo-Saxons because of Tolkien. Apparently he once chased his neighbour while he was dressed as an Anglo-Saxon warrior
I find the Anglo-Saxons interesting too.
I think the problem is the lack of sources (especially in early anglo-Saxon history) and also non English people are more likely to be less interested in it.
Not what OP is asking.
He's asking why so many Anglo-Saxons were canonised as saints in this period.
I'm pretty sure all of those saints were real people.
Did the rest of Europe have as many saints during this period?
Bumperoo
Technically Harold's oath was invalid because he was being held against his will in Normandy and was forced to swear but the Pope didn't know that.
Anglo-Saxons were highly respected on the continent for their ongoing warfare against pagans.
They were a noble people, before the (((Normans))) showed up.
FUCKING NORMANS GET OFF MY ISLAND
Aren't like more than half of Veeky Forums users English or American though?
I'm pretty sure Americans are the majority and the UK makes up a sizeable amount of Veeky Forums users.
However not all Americans are of English descent and the Americans of English descent don't really see themselves as English like the way Irish-Americans and german-Americans identity themselves
I don't know.
But it does seem the pope was dishing out a lot of sainthood in England
The First 100 Saints of G-D
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(continued)
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Page 2 of 2
The TCC 100 ->
What do you mean, 'first'?
Still haven't really got a satisfactory answer pertaining to why Anglo-Saxons had a disproportionate number of Saints. Did the continent also have many saints? And why were they frequently sainted after being converted
My guess is that a lot were given sainthood initially due to helping the rechristianisation of the island and later due to being in a near constant state of war with pagans. Both must have served as a great moral boost to Anglo-Saxon Christians and it was in Romes interest to not have the British Isles revert to some form of paganism.
One thing I need help explaining.
I see the name Edmund spelt with a "u" as well as an "o" like Edmond.
I was told by an old English teacher that Edmond is the original way but I can't actually find any sources to back it.
American is a sub subculture of Anglo Saxon culture and true Americans know it and don't need to claim we are some sort of hyphen American.
I bought a ton of books and Modern-Old English dictionaries because I got enthralled with the Anglo-Saxons. For a modern English speaker it's genuinely an absolute breeze to learn.
I'm an American of nearly pure English descent and I identify more with being English than being American.
>Still haven't really got a satisfactory answer pertaining to why Anglo-Saxons had a disproportionate number of Saints. Did the continent also have many saints? And why were they frequently sainted after being converted
They're the most holy people around.
>Still haven't really got a satisfactory answer pertaining to why Anglo-Saxons had a disproportionate number of Saints. Did the continent also have many saints? And why were they frequently sainted after being converted
They're the most holy people around.
>I'm an American of nearly pure English descent and I identify more with being English than being American.
This. America is a country with many nations inside of it. A nation has unified culture and values. Ours is ours, regardless of what the different peoples under the same flag are doing or not doing.
Is it easier than learning French?
Could you hold a conversation in old English?
Not him but, hast thu ea almihtig shitpost?
Far easier than learning French mainly because there's a lot of crossover. For example, our "weather" is their "hwaether", pronounced the exact same but with minor spelling differences. The more you look into it the more and more you'll see that Old English and Modern English are very very close.
Norman influence is just a meme?
I think it's also important to note that America, upon our foundation, was an English nation. During the revolution I'd be confident to say that the vast majority of people were of English descent with the odd Scot and Irishman scattered here and there. The only thing that made us American and not English was a slightly differing accent, and I say slightly because it truly was slight. American could have easily been mistaken for a regional English accent. If I lived in that era I'd more than happily identify as an American rather than and Englishman because "American" had a different meaning back then. Today "American" could mean any number of things because of the mass immigration from the 3rd world. An American could be someone of Saudi descent or of Sub-Saharan African descent. "American" today means everything yet at the same time nothing. That's why I choose to identify with my roots rather than the meaningless term "American".
Norman influence is absolutely there, but not generally in most common words. I highly suggest watching the video I'll post after all this, it explains how most of our "formal" words come from Norman influence but most common, everyday words are of Germanic root.
youtube.com
True, Anglo Saxon culture and governance in the 9-10th century was some of the most advanced in Europe at that particular time.
Because Britain was Roman Catholic under the Empire, and some of those Christians remained after the legions pulled out. When the reorganized church was reconstituting itself Britain was a natural choice to send envoys. To get to Scandinavia one had to cross heathen Germania, Danemark and then finally Norway and Scandinavia. It happened, it just took much longer, and with missionariees from the isles, it helped that Crowbone used the Sword to convert Half of Norway (Trondheim and up)
On Veeky Forums, it seems like a lot of Americans like to LARP as English(Even if it is justified).
I'm one of them.
I just don't feel much connection with most "Americans." They're a different people.
Of course, I feel closer to other true Yankees, my fellow old-stock Americans, even the few who weren't English, than I do to people from London, but it's so hard to tell.
>most of them hated Luther and wished to create a pure version of Catholicism, not radical Protestantism.
wtf are you talking about? the early anglican church was when it was at its most batshit
I like to use the term Yankee, or true Yankee.
That includes other old settlers, like Pennsylvania Germans or New York Dutch, as well as old-stock Americans from the south, though they hate the term.
Because after their conversion to christianity Anglo-Saxons became atypically pious and virtuous. They immediately made peace with their Celtic neighbors, protected the clergy and nurtured the Anglo-Saxon folkgamot, a kind of democratic local government. They ushered in a century of what was unironically a utopia, or at least as close to one as you could get in a pre-industrial society. The legend of King Arthur (likely King Offa) was drawn from the model Anglo-Saxon Heptarch whomst trumped Machiavelli's meme adage and ruled by "love", accomplishing this by inspiring loyalty and teaching followers to personally abandon fear.
Are Anglos the most pious Christians? Are Anglos God's favorite children?
...
What do you think of the Channel Isles?
>The English Catholic Church was quite literally the most holy and pious of all the Catholic Churches
laughing becket
>The legend of King Arthur (likely King Offa)
WE...
>the Virgin Mary vs. Saint Chad of Mercia
Someone please make a 'virgin mary vs chad saint' meme
Anglo-Saxon England > Norman England
It's true you dimwit, this even happened in the Roman Empire. St Peter became a patron of the ocean and fishermen to replace Neptune.
>Edmund
>From Old English Ēadmund, from ēad (“prosperity”) + mund (“protection”).
Two-second google search, brainlet. ‘Edmond’ is the gay French spelling.
i fucking drove past a church of st. chad the other day and this idea for a meme was the first thing that popped into my head. i really need to get off this site.
How can virgin saints compare?
Why does Anglo-Saxon iconography look so orthodox?
Because that's a modern icon.
apparently quite a few of the remains from early christian cemeteries in england are of north african origin, perhaps a remnant of byzantine rule there?