Was Lincoln the single worst president in US history? His mere election tore the country apart...

>South secedes because they're pissy about losing the election
>shell a US - owned fort
>somehow the North is the aggressor here

only second worst, buchanon literally doing nothing to prevent the situation has him beat out.

An auto-genocidal maniac with Marphan's Disease.

But still one of our best. Go figure.

>thread full of Dixie defenders

Sure is /pol/ in here.

>any perspective I don't like is /pol/

>Was Lincoln the single worst president in US history?
No. FDR was worse.
Lincoln was a commie faggot, but his economic devastation was mostly limited to the south.
FDR managed to do the same to all of America, and as a direct result of his actions for 14+ years instead of a measly 4.

No, just specifically this thread, which is about a president who was anti-slavery.

More like fiercely pro union

>we don't recognize your secession
>individuals acting against order caused harm to a fort?
>Kill every southerner because now we recognize the legitimacy of the secession
>Now that we won this war of totally not northern aggression, we never recognized the secession so any legal agreements made by the independent state are null and void because they were never an independent state.
>Kill our own citizens, what? No! They were the citizens of an independent state.

>His mere election tore the country apart
you mean one regional entity unilaterally seceded because of extreme butthurt? What if you replaced him with some other generic republican politician? The outcome would have been the same if not worse (lincoln was a moderate and cooler head among the republicans, actually), the particular person being lincoln has nothing to do with it.

>the free market will fix it meme

What was the panic of 1873 and the fifteen year long economic slump that that caused.

>What was the panic of 1873 and the fifteen year long economic slump that that caused.
better than a 100+ year slump that leftism would have caused.

Even if that were true (it's not) it only makes it even funnier that the CSA got their shit pushed in by the worst commander in chief in US history lol.

I'm like eight generations deep in Mississippi too.

>A backwoods dirtfarmer
Jefferson Davis was of the same social background as Lincoln. Both were born into impoverished squatter families in kentucky who had settled from midatlantic states

>Japan says "fuck this free market shit" and de facto puts a single government bureaucracy in charge of their entire economy
>10% a year economic growth
>China says "socialism with Chinese characteristics" and continues to use five year plans, protectionism, and state owned enterprises as their main tools for economic policy
>9% a year growth for thirty years straight
>America raises the top income tax bracket to 95%, rations basic items, and increases government spending to a never before seen percentage of GDP
>greatest economic boom in recorded history, wins a world war, and dominates the planet

Libertarians are the American variant of communism.

>its another "dixieboos cry about how they cant leave the union"

based abe

I don't believe their upbringings were similar at all. But what has that to do with anything? Davis was also a piss poor leader.

>outmanned, outgunned, and outproduced

What is this Hamilton or sumtin you cocksucka

>individuals acting against order caused harm to a fort?
it was ordered by the South Carolina government, hardly "individuals" acting on their own initiative.

>Kill every southerner
that isn't what happened nor was that desired except by a few larping extremists in the north. the closest to that was John Brown and even he didn't want to genocide southerners, only slave owners (there's a difference)

>>Now that we won this war of totally not northern aggression, we never recognized the secession so any legal agreements made by the independent state are null and void because they were never an independent state.
so being totally consistent with your own constitutional interpretation is wrong? so you propose the North just said "lol it was just a joke, we didn't think your secession was illegal after all you can keep your arrangements made outside the scope of government we just spent 4 years fighting for"

you were using "backwoods dirtfarmer" as an insult you disingenuous scoundrel, and now your backing down from your statement with "lol davis was a bad leader anyway!" even though there were some commendable qualities about davis' leadership.

How's the new dialup internet going for you Jebediah?

The radical reconstructionists didn't go far enough.

>constitutional interpretation
This is why Lincoln was a commie. The 9th and 10th amendments, and the very nature of the constitution, explicitly grant the right to secession.

>so you propose the North just said
I'm saying the north only considered the secession legitimate when doing so would benefit them.

>assume I admire Davis
>I don't
>wtf u wuz lyin
Just lol

>WAHHH COMMUNISM IS WHEN THE GOVERNMENT DOES STUFF I DONT LIKE WAAHHHHHH

>I'm saying the north only considered the secession legitimate when doing so would benefit them.
no shit, sherlock. It was in the interest of the union to keep the union together. WOW you're a genius!

DO IT AGAIN UNCLE WILLY

I never said anything about you, brainlet. I said there Davis had decent qualities. I also said your little tantrum before about Lincoln was nonsensical because to insult lincoln as a "dirt farmer" is to also insult Davis who, regardless of whether you like him or not, was the leader of the Southern cause. It implies that your secessionists were idiots for choosing a poor leader and deserved to lose because of their poor choices.

Lincoln is the second best. Only Washington ranks above him.

>no shit, sherlock. It was in the interest of the union to keep the union together. WOW you're a genius!
>our actions were warranted because you seceded
>these other actions were warranted because you never seceded
>these other other actions were warranted because you seceded

>WAHHH COMMUNISM IS WHEN THE GOVERNMENT DOES STUFF I DONT LIKE WAAHHHHHH
It's communism when the government violates it's defining documents.

What did he really do apart from being first and his military role in the war? Genuine question, because as far as I know he wasn’t one of the main founding fathers in terms of his political contributions.

>the government violates it's defining documents.
that's called "illegal". Communism and "illegal" are not synonymous, despite what your amerimutt education taught you.

>It's communism when the government violates it's defining documents.

Imagine being this stupid.

Well, as it stands, until congress passes an amendment granting themselves the power to prohibit ownership, and then passes a law prohibiting ownership, institutional communism is inherently illegal.

That doesn’t mean that everything illegal is communism dipshit

But I don't mind insulting Davis. Do you have down syndrome?

lol the only people who violated laws were the southern states

Kinda like how engaging in war without a formal declaration of war is, or passing a law granting the president powers that you don't have the authority to pass, or preventing representation in order to pass an amendment justifying and legitimizing your illegal acts after the fact.
You know, constitutionally illegal/communist things like that.

>lol the only people who violated laws were the southern states
name one.

The entire Constitution.

The government in Chile had dogs that were specially trained to rape people.

This was actually confirmed by subsequent government investigations in the 2000s.

This was a violation of the Chilean constitution. It was not however, communist, because the government that did this was avowedly communist, and was in fact using the dog raping as a way to attack sympathizers of the communist-leaning Allende regime that they deposed.

You see, not all unconstitutional acts by states are communist. Tyranny actually runs the gamut of economic systems.

You mean the constitution that expressly limits the government, and which expressly grants the right to secession until congress passes an amendment giving themselves the power to pass a law prohibiting secession, and then passes a law prohibiting secession?
That constitution?

t. illiterate

DO IT AGAIN, UNCLE BILLY

If congress passed a law that made it illegal to hold communist views, that would be unconstitutional and illegal, but it wouldn’t be communism.

>and which expressly grants the right to secession
where?

The reason he's well regarded today is because he put down the Whiskey Rebellions (making it clear that you aren't allowed to just chimp out and rebel if you don't like something the federal government is doing), and resigned after two terms so we wouldn't get a dictator like Caesar.

His foreign relations campaign wasn't great but it cemented some decent trading partners, which is what really mattered at that point in America's history

His position as creator of the republic will put him above anyone for all time. That's just the way it goes with any nation or people group. Truthfully, it's impossible to rank all Presidents, but the creators of something generally speaking are always worshiped.

Outside of military leadership, his most important work was probably the Jay Treaty. Although hardly talked about today, it's impossible to under-estimate the importance of the Jay Treaty. By the end of the War, America's status as a "nation" was still ambiguous at best, and it was in kind of a nebulous.

On one side, Jeffersonians wanted the USA to build a friendship with France, who was going through a revolution of their own. On the other side, the Federalist, whom Washington aligned himself with, wanted to build a new relationship with Great Britain. It eventually reached a point where Jeffersonians demanded a war with England.

The Jay Treaty was kind of the answer. It established America as a "neutral" power that could freely trade with both France and the UK. Once the Jeffersonians took power in the Revolution of 1800, it basically went away, which was a major factor in the War of 1812.

9th and 10th amendments.

If you're an imperialist, Lincoln should be your god. He belongs to that select group, along with Jefferson and both Roosevelt, who, at the bottom of their hearts, were deeply imperialistic.

I thought might meant right.

>the states who had every right to pull out of a union

...

neither of those grant rights of secession because the constitution grants the federal government the right to preserve the union

>the federal government the right to preserve the union
citation needed

>perpetual
So much for that
>more perfect
That's so vague and desperate lol

article 1 section 8
anhd article 1 section 10 forbids secession

>no state
They were no longer states

The Constitution was little trusted or admired by its own writers and founders.

Washington explained, in a conversation which Jefferson has recorded, his fears for the permanence of the new form of government.

Washington told Jefferson "that he did not like throwing too much into democratic hands... the government would be at an end, and must then assume another form."

Washington stopped here. Jefferson says, "I kept silence to see if he would say anything more in the same line, or add any qualifying expression to soften what he had said, but he did neither."

There was one superior to Washington among the statesmen who surrounded him—Alexander Hamilton; and his prognostications were still more gloomy:
>"A dissolution of the Union after all seems to be the most likely result."
Later in his life, Hamilton called the Constitution a frail and worthless fabric, and a temporary bond.

John Adams says:
>"No possibility of continuing the Union of the States; that their dissolution must necessarily take place."
On another occasion, he anticipated danger.
>"A popular assembly for the preservation of our liberties, was the merest chimera imaginable; they never have any rule of decision but their own will."

Don't care about optics and Constitutional law. He fucking ruined the South and they (we) deserved it.

Bend the knee hicks.

they were states and tried to stop being states
which was unconstitutional

That doesn't prohibit secession.

He's the worst for not putting the Southern dog down when he had the chance and genociding every single sibling fucking inbred retard down there.

that isn't what it says

it is though

no.

No. Worst president ever is tump

threadly reminder that unilateral secession was only made illegal in 1869, by the Supreme Court

DO IT AGAIN, UNCLE BILLY

DO IT AGAIN UNCLE BILLY

Harding was the worst, Buchanan was the worst that mattered.

...

DO IT AGAIN, UNCLE BILLY

>Did you think paradox was just pulling Latin words out of their ass?
I mean, I wouldnt be surprised

In the name of God and humanity I protest

What an absolute brainlet.

What does that say about your "cause" when your ancestors picked a retarded leader to lead them lmao?

Jeff Davis was a fierce advocate of civil rights, i dont take kindly to you talking so negatively about him

>A lot of Southerners joined and fought for the Union and keeping their nation together because they knew their states and the Confederacy were fuck ups.
>Its another thread claiming all the South were on the side of the Confederates and they deserve to burn.
I hate Veeky Forums sometimes.

I'm showing that user the implication of his insulting davis' abilities as a leader.

Frankly Sherman was too fucking nice to the South. I wish he had done the shit those inbred hicks cry about, sending packs of blacks to rape their wives and daughters and finishing them off with slow death from a bayonet gut wound.

Fucking sick of these hicks bitching here like cancer.

Reminder: Winfield Scott was a southerner who fought for the Union and Commanding General of the U.S Army during the Civil War.

If only Lee had taken the same offer.

Well /pol/ is anti-union so whatever man

Admiral David Farragut was cooler imo

I rather have Grant still. Lee is a tactician, I know Scott wanted Lee to replace him, but Lee wasn't a strategists like Scott or Grant. Grant was a pretty cool guy, I am saddend the way he went out after becoming a Hero.

>His mere election tore the country apart
blame the southerners for insisting on their meme candidate then chimping out when, surprise surprise, he lost

>wife is literally black
how did he get away with this desu?

>south secedes
>Washington refuses to vacate a military installation in Charleston harbor
>instead of negotiating with Washington to vacate the installation they attacked it
this is an aggressive and unprovoked act of war, there is no other way to put it

Had to go through several kangz forums to get the unedited. You're welcome lad

>Lincoln is to blame for the south having a giant chimpout
>Then exercised his constitutional duty to suppress insurrection

I wonder who could be behind this post