Veganism and Vegans

I can see myself going vegetarian when I retire, hopefully I'll have a brood of chickens, some milk goats, maybe a cow. I wanna be pretty self sufficient and have a home gym setup in a shed outside

name one reason why you deserve to live

>It's not like I hate animals, except I find their abuse and eat their dead bodies.
Honest question. Have you ever say back and looked at that statement from a neutral perspective?
1) name one reason they deserve to die
>But le burden of proof haha checkmate
In that case,
2) name one reason you deserve to live

Why would that be the case? Less cholesterol is one of the perks of avoiding meat

>It's not like I hate animals, except I find their abuse and eat their dead bodies.

We need to eat to live. Eating animals is not only a tradition, but a necesity.

You say that we can go vegan to fulfill said needs without the violence? Well to that I tell you the following: Your fucking meme diet is so incomplete that not only there are a million studies proving how useless and, once again, imcomplete is your diet, but you need to ue fucking sumplements to fill the gaps.

>Eating animals is not only a tradition, but a necesity.

Given that there are millions of people who don't eat animals, how is it a necessity?

Well lots of studies have shown dietary cholesterol has little to no effect on your actual cholesterol levels. However, it seems the scientific community has neglected to study whether or not it has an nutritional value.

I just say eat it why not.

>all the water used to produce livestock good produce more than 3 times as much food in the form of crops
>plus this would end deforestation for pastoralization until the human population got much bigger
>more trees more oxygen more delaying the incoming mass extinction when the oceans die
>yfw veganism is the solution to all the worlds problems

>We need to eat to live.
This is true. We need food to survive,not necessarily someone's dead body
>Eating animals is not only a tradition, but a necesity.
Tradition is not an argument, and eating meat is not a necessity so that fails too
>You say that we can go vegan to fulfill said needs without the violence?
Not just me, but yes I do say that
>Well to that I tell you the following: Your fucking meme diet is so incomplete
Except it's not and you're wrong
> that not only there are a million studies proving how useless and, once again, imcomplete is your diet
There is literally not a single mechanistic study that shows vegan diets being inherently deficient in any essential nutrients, vitamins and minerals
Before you make a fool of yourself, I repeat the keywords: mechanistic (not correlation), inherently, essential
>B12! Ha! Got him!
Google "nutritional yeast" and "soymilk"
>Estrogen!
No. Post a study and expect to be ripped to shreds, because the study will be shit
> but you need to ue fucking sumplements to fill the gaps.
Except we don't. It's 2017, cronometer and Google are at your disposal. It's easy as peas to Google "vegan source of X" and plan your diet accordingly. The fact that you can't be assed to do it is your fault, not veganism's

Dumb frogposter

>yfw veganism is the solution to all the worlds problems

Can it fix crime, corruption, etc?

>Except we don't.

Then explain the amount of vegans that still use said suplements.

In all honestly, as much is I do belive in the arguments I have laid out to the 3 of you, im tired of repeating them over and over again, so Ill just go with my own personal thoughts.

Yeah sure we could replace meat with a vegan diet, but you know why we wont? Beacuse we dont need to. We dont have the necesity, we dont have a factor that is pushing us to go vegan.

>Health benefits?
Completly fake

>Enviroment?
Could be some true to it but still highly arguably fake

And finally, your triumph card, the one you pull out when everything else fails

>Ethics

In al honestly, none of us gives a shit. In our opinions, killing them is completly ethical.

My opinion? Its ethical as long as they dont literally torture the animals, and die with little to no suffering.

You have studies saying that eating meat is bad. To that I tell ya: eating meat doesnt do jackshit to you, its not negative. If you have a healthy lifestyle and arent a fucking slob you will be fine. Then again, we also have a shitload of studies aganist you, so lets not bring that up as we cant really confirm the truth behind them.

To sum it all up, just beacuse we can eat plants instead of meat doesnt mean we have to, there is no reason for us to do so.

And finally, the most basic argument there is, aint no way in hell im gonna chose a bowl of veggies over a steak. And thats the way of thinking of many other like me.

No, but it would solve a handful of them, so your move.

lol you literally resorted to trumpism to win your argument

You said all didnt you?

But ill give some credit to you. It could POSSIBLY solve some of problems.

Im not even american, what do you mean I resorted to trumps.

Honest to God I dont understand you.

By "perks of avoiding meat" you must mean dietary memes. Same for eggs.
>authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>authoritynutrition.com/saturated-fat-good-or-bad/
>chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html?zx=81813151fabb6be6
>press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3529694/#!po=57.9365
>breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health
>suppversity.blogspot.com/search?q=eggs

I don't know why you quoted , you didn't respond to a single thing I said

I wasnt trying to, just wanted to express my thought about why your diet is bullshit. And I wanted to reply to as many vegans as possible.

Vegans always claim that plant food is actually cheaper than a animal diet. This isn't true. Well besides oats beans and rice that is. But these 3 do not have all the micros. So what gives?

>This study was funded from a nationally competitive Meat and Livestock Australia grant. The authors had no other conflicts of interest to disclose.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22170364

Add beef to peoples diet. Remove cheese, pork, and poultry. Add fiber and vegetable protein. Conclude- oh look people's cholesterol went down when we added beef to their diet.

Gee, meat must be good for ya. Not cutting their saturated fat intake in half. Hmmm really makes you think huh?

>muh cheese

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22030228

Dairy props up study. Concludes cheese lowers cholesterol- only in comparison to butter. Media runs with the story, leaves out the "only in comparison to butter" part.

Gee really makes you wonder, huh?

Please keep linking blogs by acupuncturists and chiropractors to tell us how new studies are finding how how great for you animal products are.

What a coincidence, my arguments invalidate yours but you "happened" to ignore them
>besides oats beans and rice
*And potatoes, pasta, peas, chickpeas, corn, lentils, seitan, tofu, tempeh plus peanuts, pb, tahini and flaxseed for cheap, healthy fats and broccoli and kale for choline and vitamin K, topped with nooch for B complex vitamins (including B12), washed down with soy milk (same price as cow milk unless you live in a country cucked by jew subsidies) for even more of the same nutrients

Oh sorry, I'm rambling. What essential nutrient is missing again?

That doesn't sound right, which nutrients are you having trouble with?
Other than the B vitamins, omega3s, and some more exotic stuff (you could eat a portion of mackerel per day, otherwise you'll have to supplement) you should be able to get all the micros you want from cheap vegetables.

Chia seeds are cheap and you only need a tablespoon to get your needed omega 3.

But that's ALA based. From fish you can get EPA and DHA, with the 'good form' of B12.
For everything else it makes sense to go with the vegan alternatives, but that single serving of fish? Leave it out only if you're in this for the ethics, not just for the cheap good nutrition.

Do you even think I red your post? I just saw you were defending vegans so I replied to you. Let me read your comment and ill tell you what I think

>And potatoes, pasta, peas, chickpeas, corn, lentils, seitan, tofu, tempeh plus peanuts, pb, tahini and flaxseed for cheap, healthy fats and broccoli and kale for choline and vitamin K, topped with nooch for B complex vitamins (including B12), washed down with soy milk
Soy milk is expensive where I live if I recall correctly, but I might need to check the rest.

Yea I can supplement stuff I am really anxious about but I am more concerned about the price.

Alright senpai I just red it. And I can conclude your arguments are bullshit and you arent invalidating as shit.

>This is true. We need food to survive,not necessarily someone's dead body.
As I told you, just beacuse we can eat plants doesnt mean we have to.

>Tradition is not an argument, and eating meat is not a necessity so that fails too

Read above.

>Not just me, but yes I do say that
Read above. Besides, we dont care, and as I said before, as long as they dont suffer that much I dont mind. Then again I cant prove that they suffer or not so I might aswell stop giving a shit.

>>Well to that I tell you the following: Your fucking meme diet is so incomplete

Yes it is.

> that not only there are a million studies proving how useless and, once again, imcomplete is your diet
Ask any other meat eater and they will give you a million studies. My proof? Most of you use suplements.

>Google "nutritional yeast" and "soymilk"
Fuck.Off.

>>Estrogen!
Never even mentioned that. In fact I belive the estrogen argument is bullshit, so we agree on that.

>Except we don't. It's 2017, cronometer and Google are at your disposal. It's easy as peas to Google "vegan source of X" and plan your diet accordingly. The fact that you can't be assed to do it is your fault, not veganism's
Once again, just beacuse we can doesnt mean we have to

>Yea I can supplement stuff I am really anxious about but I am more concerned about the price.
You'll be surprised by how many micros are in vegetables (or will you?).
Just check out what 100g each of cabbage, spinach, mushrooms bring to the table. Then there's the shit you wouldn't expect, like potatoes will fix your B6... you'll have to eat a variety of vegetables, but you expected that didn't you?

Lol, you're so stupid it's sad. I'm really glad I'm not you

How do vegans that are on a cut get over the poor protein bioavailability of legumes and other poverty proteins?

but rice and beans do have all your macros....

By not falling for memes like "poor protein bioavailability of legumes" and also by eating seitan meatloaf

yeah, and why is that? Insulting some guy on the internet doesnt do shit. Explain to me, why am I stupid?

Protein bioavailability is a meme now? Pretty embarrassing.

Still poverty tier bioavailability. Do post pics though.

Nah, cbf. It's 2017, Google has been a thing for like 15 years now.
Believe whatever you want to believe laddo, none of my business

Why you replying then? Dumb vegan dyel.

Gonna try. Still not sure what combination of greens would be sufficient to cover all micros though.

Yea but I said micro

What the hell does google even have to do with this?

I cant really blame you for not being able to deffend such a shitty and useless diet, but god damm at least try to make sense while doing it,

Stop posting, you are just embarassing yourself.

Enjoy your poor anabolic skeletal muscle effect.

>inb4 source
lmgtfy.com/?q=Anabolic skeletal muscle effect whey protein

You'll be surprised how many micros you will cover with just 2000 kcal (most of your daily calories) in green peas

Basically you eat a variety of leafy greens (spinach/kale/broccoli/cabbage) as well as potatoes and carrots. Eat tons of fruit through out the day, just whatever looks good.

The main thing you lack is b12, but you can get this from a vitamin water, redbull, supplements, or just occasional meat.

He also will need to eat shitloads since plant based protein is not easily absorbed. Subparagraph diet tbqh.

Subpar*

>plant based protein is not easily absorbed.
Bold claims there, lad. Got source to back it up, or are you going off what the huge sweaty black dude told you in the gym showers?

? It's well studied you monkey.

In case you're too stupid google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2015/07/29/jn.114.204305.full.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjR1K6WrtDVAhWSmLQKHVGuByAQFggyMAI&usg=AFQjCNFUp-g4M6E3Sj04Kwlgv-TdaLODVQ

Fish from 200 years ago- sure. Fish today? Fuck no. They're contaminated with everyfuckingthing we throw in the ocean.

We're talking methylmercury, pcbs, pbdes, dioxins, chlorinated pesticides,

Just eat algae and other sea vegetables instead of fish since they carry the good stuff without the saturated fat and cholesterol or accumulated toxic waste- and less risk of things going wrong due to handling, preparation, and cooking.

Don't fall for this fish propaganda bullshit. It's reducing IQ's of babies whose mother eat fish- by up to 10 points. Children who eat fish regularly are more likely to get ADD.

EPA and DHA isn't even a problem until you're old- when your body becomes less efficient at converting O3's. Supplement with blue-green algae if you're over 40. Otherwise, it's a waste if you're eating sea vegetables, flax, walnuts, chia, etc...

We don't even understand the extent to why, how, or even if fish are good for us- some types of fish seem to lower certain risks of cancer- and some types of fish seem to increase risk of cancer by a lot.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25380202

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24707954

Some explanations are that processing fish plays a role in elevated cancer risks, cooking and preparing the fish plays a role, and the volitile chemistry of fatty acids- all play a role in increasing cancer risk from consumption of fish.

it's just not worth it given safer alternatives.

Pescotarian is really the true masterrace.

>reducing IQ's of babies whose mother eat fish- by up to 10 points
Is this what anti vaxxers and anti fluoride fags also believe in?
I'd tell you to go back to x but you have that Reddit spacing so go back there.

More dietary memes.
>We don't even understand the extent to why, how, or even if fish are good for us
Yes we do
>chriskresser.com/5-reasons-why-concerns-about-mercury-in-fish-are-misguided/
>aboutseafood.com/press_release/media-still-perpetuating-mercury-myth/
>aboutseafood.com/blog_type/mercury-blog/
>suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/09/faster-muscle-hypertrophy-lower.html
>suppversity.blogspot.com/2016/02/minimal-amounts-of-fish-peptide.html
>suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/06/fishing-for-better-wheys-to-improve.html
>suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/04/fish-and-krill-oil-both-work-but-their.html
>suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/05/fish-oil-compromises-fish-improves.html

Why would you link a study on rodent models? Are you a rodent? Have you not learned how overwhelmingly unreliable non-human models are for understanding humans?

30 mins and this all you can come up with embarrassing honestly.

>blogs

nice science bro.

>muh cheese
>suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/01/true-or-false-dairy-is-toxic-hormone.html
Also highly doubt the"milk=prostate cancer" entirely especially when in the article it says:
>Estrone and prostate cancer risk in men: As far as the estrone levels Maruyama et al. measured in their 2010 study are concerned it is very difficult to tell, whether or not the 26% increase in E2 levels is or isn't a problem.
>The estrone values in the Maruyama study are unrealistic. With a normal range of difficult to tell
>unrealistic
and
>What remains to be seen, though, is whether future epidemiological evidence will support or refute the currently heralded hypothesis that dairy consumption increases prostate cancer risk and whether we will be able to identify more feasible explanations for this relations than those that are implicated by the results Maruyama et al. present in their 2010 study.
>sciencedrivennutrition.com/hormones-milk/
>suppversity.blogspot.de/2014/05/bcfa-gut-health-immunity-cancer.html
>suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/12/dairy-good-bad-or-ugly-latest-studies.html
>suppversity.blogspot.com/2016/07/cheese-your-health-cvd-cancer-metabolic.html
>tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2011.10719992

nice reading bro

Read the study, looked to see if it was replicated in humans. Nope. Nothing.

So does this translate to humans? Who the fuck knows. For now there's no reason at fucking all to assume it does. Otherwise we could warn people to stay away from chocolate- because it's toxic... to dogs. Or we could be warning people to stay the fuck away from avocados because they produce a natural pesticide called persin which can be toxic to insects, birds, cattle, horses, goats, sheep and mice. Holy fuck!!!! We're all going to die from Avacado poisoning!!!!

Or, we could just fucking disregard animal models until they are reproduced in humans you retarded piece of shit.

oh look, another bro with a blog. Cool science bro.

(((They))) want you to keep stuffing your face with cheeseburgers and steaks.
>Yesss, good goy, keep feasting on your beef & pork. Goy, look! Look at all these studies disproving the benefits of vegetarianism.Yes, share those with your friends

what is the value of life which is not comnected to me? in my oerspective. i would never eat my dog or cat but honeatly i dont care if some people in nord korea have a bsd life or some cow gets killed for meat.

what is the moral problem with eating meat. just fucking organic molecules

>There are people this stupid on Veeky Forums
You're this moron aren't you?

See, as well.
No and can't be calling anyone stupid or moron. Especially when you clearly don't bother to read either.

My bad I wanted to link .

Mom get off the internet