/plg/ - Powerlifting General: Mr Intensity Edition

who do I listen to, a texan geologist who trains beginners who respond to literally anything and has never trained any lifters of note or someone who works with professional athletes and has trained a champion powerlifter

With that mentality, then why not put him on Sheiko.

SCREAMER

who gives a shit
>genders in the jungle
baka

where does chad say you should only work in the rep range of 8-12? CWS is usually proposing simple block periodazation.

probably because we're talking about principles and not specific programming

how do I get a big OHP? How big is the crossover from bench to OHP?

>inb4 this is /plg/, no OHP chat allowed

jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/

OHP is almost always going to be front delt limited unless you have never seen or been in the room with a bench press or any tricep exercise, so how much carryover there is from bench -> ohp depends on how hard bench hits your front delts -> depends on how long your upper arms are, your form, etc.

i imagine close grip bench for someone with long upper arms and a low touch would have the greatest carryover, with a wide grip high touch for someone with short upper arms having the lowest (longest and shortest moment arm between bar and front delts respectively)

No it more sounds like you're cherry picking from two different programming styles meant for two different kinds of lifters.

You're comparing apples to oranges like a butthurt little faggot.

From last bread

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>I guess this is what I get for reading /r/fitness, what routine should I do then? I've been on a cut for 9 months and I've maintained strength on a ppl but I can only go to the gym for 4 days now because of work. desu the only lift that has suffered is bench, but my 1rm is still 100kg. Squat and diddy are still 2pl8 and 3.5pl8

read Scientific Principles of Strength Training
you are not going to only work in 8-12 range as a beginner he just stateds that hyperthrophie is even more important for beginners which means spending a longer time in a hyperthrophie block over the whole training year

Is it normal for people with longer arms to be more comfortable with fairly narrow grip bench?

No, the opposite. The longer your arms, the more you'll want to decrease Theron by widening your grip.
Feeling uncomfortable in wide grip as opposed to closer grip is a combination of poor spine flexibility and poor arching, thin ribcage and simply not having trained the movement enough

i literally told you to do jacked and tan 2.0

its 4 days a week and high volume

They're both correct, but at different times in a lifter's career.

Rippetoe's is best if you're completely new to training. A few basic movements, not too many reps so that you'll better maintain technique throughout sets. Heavier weights means you increase neurological efficiency better than you would with lower weights and higher reps, and at this level you need to increase this efficiency before the movements begin to build muscle.
Around the time of your first stalling is when you can move towards Chad's, because a some sets per week are usually not optimal for gains.

How much does it matter for a lifter's strength a few years after the lifter started lifting? Most likely, it doesn't matter at all.

I quit squats. Just going to do push/pull stuff for now. I'm so fucking shit at them, I just have terrible leverages and the movement is invredibly awkward for me. I'm relatively strong all around for the 8 months I've been powerlifting. Only about a week away from a 600lb deadlift attempt, and I think I can hit a 345 pause bench. For where those lifts are at, you'd think I'd be AT LEAST a low-mid 400lb squatter. Nope. Try 325. I can box squat to parallel 495, just above parallel ~565, and just below parallel 405. Take the box away and I'm a weak little bitch. I have really long femurs and a super short torso, I feel like without a box I completely lose the ability to activate my muscles as soon as I hit parallel. Only way to describe the feeling would be to flare your elbows out while benching and bring the bar straight to your jugular. It's just a REALLY weak spot to be in. I've tried high and low bar squat with every stance width you can imagine, nothing is comfortable and I can never get to or past parallel without completely losing tightness. I'd rathe just ignore squats than force myself to do them and potentially hurt myself. I never get anything out of free squats anyways, zero carry over to my deadlift. Box squats are good and I might still do them, but I think I'd be better off using a hack squat machine to mimic my deadlift range of motion, safer and easier to set up.

bullshit?

>meant for two different kinds of lifters
except that CWS has described how he trains beginners, see and it looks nothing like starting strength

>apples to oranges
we're talking about programming for beginners

there are basically two camps, low volume low variation linear progression and higher volume higher variation, i'm telling you that the guy who has actually trained a champion powerlifter is probably the guy you should be listening to

keep guzzling that rippetoe cum though

you arent trying enuf

there's also the argument that doing more volume will help you hone technique faster

on SS you basically have an average 4.5 sets of bench press to get your technique to click every week, on a higher volume program you might consistently be doing 8 sets of bench press per week

you may actually, physically not be capable of squatting below parallel due to a combination of long femurs and short tibia

it's pretty rare, but sometimes that ratio can get so extreme that it is not actually physically possible to squat below parallel without just tipping right over

CWS is going to use a different approach to sell his own coaching, not because it is the most effective.

It doesn't matter if you don't try hard anyways, and Rip is good at calling people fags, which I like.

What are your lifts?

>different approach to sell his own coaching
are you actually this stupid or am i being taken for a ride

It can, but I also think it can become counterproductive for some. I vaguely remember when I was quite new to barbell exercises, and I couldn't handle more than a few sets each session before it started going to shit.

I'm not a fan of prolonging SS, but from what I've read, its simple approach (power cleans exempted) is optimal for absolute beginners, but lifters quickly need something better.

Do you actually want to compete? Unless you do it doesn't matter too much. I'd like to see video of your squats though, just out of curiosity

Are you actually that weak to be projecting this hard?

I'm not a big fan of it, I wish I'd started with something different. Maybe a traditional HPS DUP setup with session to session progression and plenty of hypertrophy fluff work.

>gym buddy wasn't able to lift today
>go alone
>no one there because it's the middle of the night
>have to squat
>ask the gym receptionist cutie to spot me after mustering some courage for ten minutes
>she actually touched me during the entire set
>couldn't focus on the left because her hands were on me even though I told her not to worry and just stand behind me just in case
>the shakiest, most insecure set of my life

Why am I so beta?

That happened.

>plenty of hypertrophy fluff work.
Usually a waste of time for a beginner, unless it's for lats, and rear delts, maybe calves and core work.

Your growth rate is maxed out from the compounds, and too much overlap fluff lights up the connective tissue and inhibits recovery.

No, I actually lied about being autistic, I actually fucked her in the ass afterwards.

Make that weekly progression and it's something I'd like to see someone do after the first stall on SS.

Not really a fan of session to session progression, probably because it works pretty badly for me.

>Usually a waste of time for a beginner, unless it's for lats, and rear delts, maybe calves and core work.

That would be the main focus desu, but I don't think
>Your growth rate is maxed out from the compounds
applies as much as you think it does. Coordination and skill will reduce the amount of weight you're shifting on the compounds as a beginner, to the point I don't think anyone on SS/SL etc is approaching their MRV for all the muscle groups trained by the compounds. It's certainly over MEV but I believe there's more potential growth available, especially on the upper back, but also the pecs, tri's and delts, considering you're only benching 3 times a fortnight and OHP is so low weight for most.

REE I hate being lanklet
>dont deadlift at all for a month
>5kg PR
>bench 3times /wk
>no significant progress
/blog end

No, you lied to be interesting on a Mexican airport fence erection blog. I’ll bite:

Why doesn’t the squat rack have safeties?

Why are you ego lifting and dependent on spotters for Squats of all exercises?

Why is the only staff member in the night hours of 24/7 gyms a receptionist?

If you used APRE or whatever the acronym for adding weight based on reps done on a plus set is, then it'd work from session to session to start with then transition to weeklyish anyway. It'd probably get to a point where you can only push one day per week. There'd need to be some well thought out guidance provided but I can see it working.

MRV =/= maximal growth rate.

Beginners will be growing as fast as they can, for the most part, with a 3 day full body routine.

More isn't more.

>WAWTT?

Plan was some back work, but I semi-snapped my back up on Tuesday, so I think I'm going to try and take it easy today. Back is feeling better by miles though, so I MIGHT try out some very light(lmao1plaet) diddys just to check things out. Depends on how it feels when evening comes around. Probably some singles, double and tripes. Maybe even fives.

>WAWET?
Chicken salad. Also some chocolate since I need some sort of comfort.

>WAWLTT?
youtube.com/watch?v=iXBd-SjQxpQ

>WAWFT?
Been ranging from extreme snap-stress and relief. Feeling hopeful right now.

So kind of similar to Nuckols' squat/bench beginner programs?

Most fast progress youtubers have started lifting many years ago and are most likely writing time off. If youve lifted for 13years and dedicate 1 year into powerlifting all of a sudden, youre gonna progress way faster than a person whos starting fresh or with less time under their belt. Even if youve been body building for most of that time, youve developed some kind of foundation thats ready to improve.

This shit upsets me personally because my sisters been into sports her whole life training specifically for that and then out of nowhere she decides to be a trainer loses like 2% bf only to reveal a 6pack and believes her methods were all it took.

I didnt click your link but i imagine this is the situation.

Skinny guy here. Are powerlifting routines good for gaining mass? For example GZCLLP where you lift heavy (5x3->6x2->10x1) in the beginning of session and do some 3x10 stuff later. Or Sheiko's beginner program. Or Candito's.

>I didnt click your link
yeah what you said didnt apply here at all

Yeah man im not gonna look into steficohens autobiography to know how long shes been lifting for but i can guarantee you its been a long time and she had that progress in the tank for a while.

instagram.com/p/BaESZ2uA1nB/

How do I get off the bench like this wtf

Because Sheiko and CWS think in the same way

>Rippetoe's is best if you're completely new to training.
Never saw powerlifting coaches that program beginners in the same manner as Rippetoe.

>CWS is going to use a different approach to sell his own coaching
>implying Rippetoe isn't

They both are, retard. CWS had to differentiate himself since he's newer.

Volume and eating is good for mass

cws and rippetoe are both retards. Listen to Louie Simmons

How does that even happen? How does a couch potato that knows nothing about fitness decide to get into powerlifting and just “tone”.

So, when do powerlifting coaches teach true beginners instead of powerlifting beginners who have lifted before?

And not****** just “tone”

There's having very good progression, then there's lifting the WR deadlift one weight class above you, +10 lbs, for 4 reps kind of progression.

Do you see many powerlifting coaches take in complete beginners, or many complete beginners seek out powerlifting clubs and getting coached?

I don't know what powerlifting coaches do, but I do know some coaches in Norway have put lifters capable of progressing weekly on Dietmar's 12-week Beginner Powerlifter program. I guess they don't really care about daily/weekly/monthly progression like we do, but does that mean discussing approaches is pointless and we can't, in theory, find a good approach?

In any case, I don't have the same experience and knowledge as a powerlifting coach will. My post is primarily dictated by what I've read.

Theres lifting for almost 10 years and then theres training for soccer and supplementing lifting and accumulating fitness for almost 20years.

As the other two guys already said, it's very rare for absolute beginners to seek out powerlifting coaches if anything most of the normies I know are literally intimidated with someone dropping 3-4pl8 deadlift.

I have two examples where absolute noobs decided something like "I wanna get a CMS in powerlifting" (I'm from Russia) and paid for good powerlifting coaches. And they did something close to Chad Wesley Smith's program in "considerations to beginners".

Went up to my old Olympic lifting gym to see my old coach and he was squatting 230kg for doubles at 69kg bw, why live

How many people in Russia achieve CMS in their sport and then quit?

Im going away and probably wont come back here for another few weeks but i think you new guys underestimate longevity more than anything still. Also, I wish more veteran lifters would come out of lurking.

Goodluck on your lifts plg. Eat your salts, drink your water, and ask her out already.

Having some beef stew lads

nice, i made a batch of beef and ale stew the other day

What happened to Izzy? Has he just been injured? - he is squatting just above 100kg for 5s

Not sure what I think about the content of this video. He says weak points are caused just by technique and leverages and it's a waste of time to do weak point training.

youtube.com/watch?v=JZ3EoQ627bk

>waste of time

is this guy fucking retarded?

if youve got small weak muscles then all the technique in the world isnt going to help you, and leverages are affected by size of limbs as well as length

the heaviest weight lifted CANNOT be greater than the strength at the weakest point

you dont necessarily have to go as far as isolating one muscle group, but at some point you need to do a variation of a movement that emphasises where you are weakest in the lift, youre poor off the chest, do inertia work, youre weak at lockout, do board presses or high pin presses

>is this guy fucking retarded?
yes he is

I think Izzy means that even in a hypothetical where chest and triceps are of equal muscular strength, a technique that doesn't get the most out of your lock out leverages will be harder to lock out.
He's being autistic over language because it's not a "weakpoint" it's "you need to be disproportionately strong to overcome a mechanical sticking point"

he uses the exact words 'weak muscle groups'

if you have weak triceps you will struggle at lockout

if you have weak glutes and hams you will struggle from the floor/out of the hole

sometimes its literally a case of 'get stronger' not 'get stronger in x lift'

I remember it was almost about a month ago I was talking here with a tripfag about winged scapulas and he told me he had one too. I think it was Fat Retard or someone Fat. I'm actually very interested in seeing someone muscular with a winged scapula, since there is no one on google. So I request the big guy tripfag to post a picture of his winged scapula please.

>if you have weak glutes and hams you will struggle from the floor/out of the hole
Oh so that's why. Thanks garagebro even if don't aim to help me you somehow always help me out.

I've not been squatting since I started lifting because my shitty apartment gym has no squat rack. Just got to a new place and I'm keen to start, but how much could I squat if I can deadlift 3.5pl8?

Why does my bench feel looser and much harder after I lay on a roller for a better arch? I get a better arch, less rom and more retraction but somehow it feels weaker?

Should I do rear delt rows after rowing on lower or just on upper days when running upper lower?

Why the fuck would you even ask that question. Just get under the god damn barbell and see how much you can squat retard

This is a blue board.

Just try a set with 1pl8 and keep moving up until it feels kind of hard. Since it'll be a new movement, you likely won't be able to lift much until you get used to it.

>fat retard
>muscular
kek

It was me. The winging isn't major, but it is there (doctor confirmed). It's on my right side (left in the pic). First pic wasn't right so I took a different one.

WELL EXCUUUUUUSE ME

Reminder: youtube.com/watch?v=RZiYpIlUZY0

Thanks a lot man. Mind telling me your lifts press (or bench press if you don't ever do any), rows and deadlift numbers?

Bench - 305 lbs 6x2, last max was 142.5 kg
Rows - cheaty 265 6x2, do weighted chins with ~285 lbs total weight for 6x2 pretty strict
Deadlift - 435 6x2, last max was 215 kg

why are you doing rows for sets of 2??

forgot the two minute rests !!!

Thank you. Do you remember if the winged scapula was worse/more visible before you started lifting or is it something that occured recently? IIRC you also had said that you hadn't experienced any pain from it.

Is it safe to bail drop on low bar squat?

safe for you? yes

safe for the bar? no

Because I feel like it and it's an easy way to progress them. When I get off Hepburn I'll do them for 8+, probably will go to chest supported instead of barbell for a while though

I was too lazy to put it in

It's been about the same, maybe slightly better? There isn't much of a noticeable difference desu. I've had it for as long as I can remember. No pain either, you're correct on that, although I do have an internal rotation deficit in the humerus on that side and if I do a low unrack on bench (even with a spotter sometimes) it will aggravate my shoulder a little bit. Usually goes away in a day though. Super infrequent though.

SCREAMER

When will you all wake up and realise that Renaissance periodization is the best way to do powerlifting?

what youre doing is less than useless, 12 reps is not going to give you a big strong back

back work should be hundreds of reps a week, if not a session

We got a drop safe floor?

B-but I work up to 18 reps!!111! Real talk though, I do rows and chins with 2x frequency, build up from 48 reps to 72 total reps of back work a week. I know it's not the most effective thing to do but I enjoy doing it this way. And like I said, when Hepburn runs out, which will probably be in the next month or two (especially for deadlift), then I'll be changing up my back work programming as well.