Owe taxes this year but don't want to take anything out of crypto

w8t4u
w8t4u

Owe taxes this year but don't want to take anything out of crypto

All urls found in this thread:
https://bitcoin.tax/
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8824.pdf
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/08/15/cryptocurrency-traders-risk-irs-trouble-with-like-kind-exchanges/#6ba927ef26a8
https://www.aicpa.org/advocacy/tax/downloadabledocuments/aicpa-comment-letter-on-notice-2014-21-virtual-currency-6-10-16.pdf
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/private-foundations/tax-on-net-investment-income-capital-gains-and-losses
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capital-loss-carryover.asp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/coinbase-likely-to-lose-battle-to-protect-users-from-irs-bitcoin-tax-probe/
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/coinbase-likely-to-lose-battle-to-protect-users-from-irs-bitcoin-tax-probe/
lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@w8t4u

Burgers

hairygrape
hairygrape

@w8t4u
Is the tax from your crypto gains or wagie income? Just pay the tax out of your wagie income and keep your crypto train running.

If your sole income is from crypto capital gains, you should always set aside some fiat for tax paying purposes and then re-invest the rest.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@hairygrape

It's from both. I haven't cashed anything out but from what I understand trading crypto to crypto creates a taxable event when you gain money off of it.

King_Martha
King_Martha

@VisualMaster
What country are you from?

Evilember
Evilember

@King_Martha

US

SniperWish
SniperWish

@VisualMaster
Usually not taxable until you convert back into fiat. If you havent cashed anything out, you've not converted back, you've no realised gainz, and so owe no tax

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@SniperWish

I keep hearing both and don't know which to believe. The guidelines by the IRS are really vague.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

holy shit you dumbass

its only taxable when you go to fiat. do you really think the govt is gonna take your shitcoins as tihing?

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@Evilember
Usually you would be right about the crypto-to-crypto capital gains - but check out the IRS website in regards to "like-kinded trades". Basically, if you trade one asset for another and they fall under the same "category", then you don't have to pay capital gains until you actually cash out into fiat.

Best advice would be to speak to an accountant who is familiar with cryptocurrency.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@ZeroReborn
time to get yourself an accountant then. the advice might still be vague, but at least then you can claim you were advised poorly

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@New_Cliche

The IRS has never said whether or not crypto is like kind.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@VisualMaster
how do you gain money by having more dogecoins for example? what do you think that Yellen will trace your wallets?
smfh you pussies
you didn't make any gains yet and you want to pay? what if you pay tax now and lose everything next year? will mr taxman be interested to help you then? don't be a fucking faggot for fucks sake

eGremlin
eGremlin

@Deadlyinx
I don't think there is a strict definition of "like-kind", but I think most reasonable people including the IRS would have to say that all cryptocurrency's are like kind. But I am not American, so you should really talk to an accountant.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@w8t4u
paying taxes
What a cuck.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@StonedTime
what if you pay tax now and lose everything next year?

Then you can carry over your losses

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

@AwesomeTucker
Kek imagine trying to pay your taxes with DGB or some shit

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@New_Cliche
Best advice would be to speak to an accountant who is familiar with cryptocurrency.
fuck that
hurr hire a professional acccountant
yea because paying taxes should be out of reach for regular people so the fucking lawyer mafia can benefit from it right? fuck them
they either simplify the rules and give proper guidlines or can go fuck themselves

MPmaster
MPmaster

@Raving_Cute
Yeah I am sure you'll really be showing "the man" when you're in jail cunt. Everyone hates the tax man, but it's better than the ass rape of audit and jail time if you get caught with your pants down by the IRS.

w8t4u
w8t4u

get email from paypal today
CRA is auditing all business accounts in 45 days from 2014-2017
filed no taxes for those 3 years despite doing freelance work online

literally shaking right now.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Spazyfool
imagine those latino womn at IRS going through a 5inch thick book of your oder history including cryptopia and your purcheses of Niggercoin, Doge, Hitlercoin etc
hurr mr jones, you didn't report yur hurr taxable event, we can clearly see you mad some serious gainz on dat hitlercoin trade
holy fuck, this shit is gonna be priceless

Firespawn
Firespawn

@w8t4u
Looks like ROAD REPAIR is back on the menu, Boys!

DeathDog
DeathDog

@w8t4u
and one more question
how the fuck do you owe any taxes if you don't cash out?
how do you even calculate your current net worth in cryptos? it's so volatile how do you do it?
is it a specific month day hour minute second? what if by the time you get your paperwork btc drops by 50%

are you all retarded? if someone tells you to pay taxes for every step you make while walking will you just stand in one place scared to move?
holy fuck you retards

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

kek, imagine being OP
be wagie
spend all wagebux on stupid shit
have to withdraw monopoly money to pay taxes of wagebux
must pay taxes on monopoly money to page taxes on wagebux

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@eGremlin
Just because something is a digital asset does not mean that it's like-kind. Some coins are securities, some aren't, for example.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

@DeathDog

Been wondering the same. It's confusing but ignoring it and saying shit like "le fuck taxjew" isn't the solution especially considering I'm planning on cashing out fairly large gains.

Inmate
Inmate

@Raving_Cute
you pay 25% or whatever it is in your country when you cash out your large sum, like a good goy, that's it
in fact if you don't plan on buying a house/land you just cash out via localbitcoins/atm and keep your cash under your bed

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@DeathDog
@Inmate
https://bitcoin.tax/

I use this website. I put every transaction I do into here and it helps you work out capital gains. For coin to coin trades, I just do a "sell" event on the coin I am disposing of, and a "buy" on the coin I am gaining.

StonedTime
StonedTime

@Inmate
25 fucking percent? Is that some sort of sick joke?

iluvmen
iluvmen

@StonedTime
that was just an example because I heard some cucked countries like sweden take 50% from you when it's a large amount
anyway, good luck to everyone who wants to pay his taxes without cashing out, kek

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@SniperWish
@AwesomeTucker
STOP FUCKING SPREADING THE "THERE'S ONLY TAXES IF YOU CASH OUT" MEME YOU PIECES OF SHIT.

It's wishful thinking and there's nothing to back that up. You're going to get anons v& when they finally do cash out and there's inconsistencies now in their financial records. In fact I fell for the meme and had to amend my tax returns for previous years.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@New_Cliche
Here's all you need to know:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
1. For federal tax purposes, virtual currency is treated as property. General tax principles applicable to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual currency.
2. A taxpayer who receives virtual currency as payment for goods or services must, in computing gross income, include the fair market value of the virtual currency,
3. Taxpayers will be required to determine the fair market value of virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the date of payment or receipt. If a virtual currency is listed on an exchange and the exchange rate is established by market supply and demand, the fair market value of the virtual currency is determined by converting the virtual currency into U.S. dollars (or into another real currency which in turn can be converted into U.S. dollars) at the exchange rate, in a reasonable manner that is consistently applied. measured in U.S. dollars, as of the date that the virtual currency was received.

Alright? So they consider all "virtual currency" as property. That means alt coins too and general tax principles apply. If you do any transaction with crypto whatsoever, whether it's trading for USD, BCH, XMR, LINK, DGB, gold, a house, a car, chickens, or corn, or any other property at all that has monetary value, you have to pay capital gains in FIAT based on the "fair market value" (which they define in 3) minus the cost basis of the original asset. Where in all of this do you people get that you only have to report if you trade for fiat? Just because they don't specifically say the word "alts"? If you calculate your taxes using bitcoin.tax (which was created by a professional accountant) it's calculated in this very manner. If you buy BTC for $1000, and then trade it for $5000 worth of ETH, you generated a tax event and owe capital gains on the $4000 increase in value, the exact same as if you had sold your BTC for fiat right before buying ETH.

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Stark_Naked
B-but like-kind exchanges.

They don't apply by default. Also you don't get to not report just because you think it's "like-kind". You'd have to fill out this 2 page form for EVERY trade and get it approved. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8824.pdf

There's CPAs that say like-kind treatment doesn't apply to crypto. https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/08/15/cryptocurrency-traders-risk-irs-trouble-with-like-kind-exchanges/#6ba927ef26a8

B-but where do I get the fiat to pay the taxes if I never cashed out.

The IRS doesn't care. That's why you can't escape the system by only bartering. You'd either have to get a second source of income to pay the taxes or liquidate a portion of your portfolio, calculating any taxes for converting to USD so you have money left over to pay your trading capital gains.

C-can't I just report my final cash out on coinbase minus my original investment?

No, in fact that would be a good way to get audited because you'd be showing an inconsistency in your records. Which is the last thing you want to do. If you report that you bought 5 BTC and later cashed out 20 BTC, you can't just have the 15 BTC appearing out of thin air without making fraudulent claims. You'd have to report every step of how that 5 BTC turned into 20.

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Evilember
Yea, the answer to this is no. The taxable event is transferring back into fiat. If you haven't cashed out, you don't owe tax. Period.

massdebater
massdebater

I owe too the state audited me im sure the feds are next, i just turned 23 let me start my goddam life kikes

hairygrape
hairygrape

@StonedTime
that's pretty much the standard on most first world countries

are you a neet?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@w8t4u
Stop lying to him fucker, refute any of the points I made.

@Stark_Naked
@Spamalot

Methshot
Methshot

@Spamalot
ok mr taxman
lets say I have 50 different coins that fluctuate in price every second making my usd net wrth going up and down 50% every hour
how do you pay taxes on that ?

inb4
HURRR I DON'T KNOW BUT IRS DOESN'T CARE YOU HAVE TO PAY AND I HAVE TO PAY TOO I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH BUT HURR WE HAVE TO PAY, YOU BETTER PAY

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

Grandpa gvies his grandkids shiny rocks he found by the lake
le edgy Veeky Forums taxman appears
HURRR DURRR TAXABLE EVENT, KID YOU BETTER PAY TAXES ON THAT EVENT BECAUSE THEY WILL KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR IN 15 YEARS AND CONFISCATE YOUR ENTIRE NET WORTH HURR DURRR

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

@Methshot
Use automated software like bitcoin.tax to import your trade history and calculate it for you, brainlet. Do you think that excuse applies to day-traders?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@StrangeWizard
you are the brainlet, If i calculate that today it's gonna give me different resulats than if I calculate that tomorrow
maybe you're too dense to understand that tho

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Spamalot
https://www.aicpa.org/advocacy/tax/downloadabledocuments/aicpa-comment-letter-on-notice-2014-21-virtual-currency-6-10-16.pdf

Addressed directly here. Tl;dr the IRS has left the door open for you to classify them as like-kind trades in good faith, WITHOUT THE FORM. Until they clarify, they can't enforce a regulation that doesn't exist. Ex poste facto laws, nigga

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

@Methshot
It's not hard retard, as long as you do not sell or trade any of those alt coins you ow no capital gains taxes. The moment you sell or trade them you do.

If you made 50% of a trade you have to convert 25% andp ut it your bankaccount. If you make losses you write those down on a slip of paper.

At the end of the year you substract all your losses from the money you put aside in your bank and send that money to the IRS with all the transactions you made.

That's literally fucking it.

Methshot
Methshot

@Stark_Naked
you are the brainlet, If i calculate that today it's gonna give me different resulats than if I calculate that tomorrow maybe you're too dense to understand that tho
Ok, look at the way you write, you're clearly the brainlet. You obviously calculate it based on the end of the tax year.

@Booteefool
That's not a letter from the IRS. That's a letter from CPA's to the IRS because the IRS didn't say that alt-coin trades are like-kind. Where's the response letter?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Methshot
Which provided the response they received directly from the IRS on this exact issue, at least take the time to review evidence before you dismiss it out of hand

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Methshot
You obviously calculate it based on the end of the tax year.
like december 31, 11:59:59 pm?
how do you know the exact rates if every exchange has it slightly different? see you are the brainlet, it's impossible to do it unless you cash out to FIAT

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@SomethingNew
I trade 1 btc for a shitcoin
shitcoin is now worth 1.5 btc
hurrr you need to cash out 25% of that gain fucking ASAP to fiat to pay taxes
meanwhile shitcoin drops to 0.9btc
no, wait, it's a LOSS now, lets substract that
oh, wait, shitcoin goes up again

do you see how retarded that is? fucking madness

girlDog
girlDog

@LuckyDusty
you calculate it at the time of the trade, using a price from a reputable exchange. if you do this you can suggest the reputable exchange, if you don't do this the taxman will give you his price

Snarelure
Snarelure

@girlDog
see @Garbage Can Lid
at the time of the trade
man, at the exact time of the trade you don't gain or lose anything, if you buy a shitcoin for 50 sats, at the time of the trade your btc stack doesn't change, but you bet your ass it will change 1000000 times over the next weeks

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Garbage Can Lid
you pay the tax at tax time on the total gain from the year. you keep the records for audit

RavySnake
RavySnake

@TalkBomber
What the fuck are you talking about? There's no response from the IRS included in your link. Copy and paste what you think the response is.

@LuckyDusty
Oh you're right there's slight differences in exchanges so all taxes are off by default...

WebTool
WebTool

I've got taxes to pay because I moved money from a fund to crypto. I held the funds for over 10 years though, I think I heard somewhere that there is a lower tax, does that sound reasonable? I'm in Finland btw.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Snarelure
you bought coin feb 1, on that day a reputable exchange showed price $1, you sold nov 7, reputable exchange show $6, gain $ fucking 5

whereismyname
whereismyname

@VisualMaster
yea because every coin has a usd pair
hurr reputable exchanges only, you're going to prison for using craptopia, burn in hell you evil motherfucker!!!!11111

MPmaster
MPmaster

@whereismyname
then you fucking calculate the BTC - USD value at the time and you get that price from a reputable exchange meaning not one you fucking set up that shows the price as zero.

this is all pretty fucking straightforward. if you elect not to determine the price in a reasonable way the taxman will do it for you, do you understand what this means?

massdebater
massdebater

@girlDog
if you don't do this the taxman will give you his price
inb4 he gives you $10 million price on some etherdelta shitcoin and now you are forever in debt

iluvmen
iluvmen

The fact that I've never seen a tax thread without shit flinging like this leads me to believe were fucked. I'm not getting my money back.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@MPmaster
fuck it you won't so i'll explain anyone for the benefit of the semi retards who give a shit

there is flexibility in determining the price, there will a most favourable price for you, a most unfavourable price for you and everywhere in between. you want the taxman to accept your suggestion at your most favourable price which is not fucking 0 because you made a fake exchange, if you fuck around he will find the most bullshit unfavourable price possible and tell you to go fuck yourself.

but anyway if the document is true then you really wont have to worry too much about tax on crypto - crypto trades, but you should still keep proper records because of shit like above

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@iluvmen
But you notice the people that say it's only when you cash out have no good arguments right?

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@PackManBrainlure
yes, the taxman will investigate the hitlercoin price from 7 months ago exactly at 5:49 pm amongst thousands of swing trades done by botes
hurr this hitlercoin was worth 13,2 niggercoins at the moment of the trade, not 12,9 like you reported. Take him to the car boys.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Sharpcharm

Yes in with you. There's nothing that states the IRS treats crypto as like kind.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Deadlyinx
Hurrdurr crypto to crypto might not be like kind!!!

Of course it fucking is

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@massdebater
literally what he will do to a degree, he gets to fuck around, you dont
@Sharpcharm
there isnt actually proper guidance, they have no idea, there are faggots who actually think shit like gifting it to yourself or saying you found it is feasible

happy_sad
happy_sad

@New_Cliche

Crypto is mess, too slow and unstable. I'd rather have cash.

takes2long
takes2long

@Dreamworx
for the fucking day fucknuts, which can either be in your favour, or in your ass

w8t4u
w8t4u

@Harmless_Venom
the what if you really mined all your btc as a kid and lost access to the records?
o well I know, we are all going to jail because muh mr taxman
nigger be serious, they will HAVE to simplify the rules, unless they want to build 10000 more prisons in every country to fit in all the neets trading shitcoins

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@w8t4u
and btw how will they know al the trades from exchanges not requiring verification?
inb4
they will track your block eplorer down
well you pump your gains through some privacy coins hiding address/ips and you're on the "other side"
they can literally suck our dicks

viagrandad
viagrandad

@w8t4u
@PurpleCharger

ok look youre not going to jail for fucking around mining and once shit mooned and you took a bit of time to get up to speed and are able to demonstrate a clear effort to get shit in order, but having the records are in YOUR best interests so you can make the most favourable case for yourself. fucking hide the records if you need to until you realize this.

for exchanges not requiring verification think of it like him looking through your bank statements - oh you sent this money to CME, where are those records?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

Hell would freeze over before I'd pay taxes on unrealized gains. Then again, I'm not an americuck. Just move to a fucking Denmark and cash out faggots.

Flameblow
Flameblow

@w8t4u
LOLLLLLL

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Flameblow
i'm legit scared, no joke.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@viagrandad
I was talking about exchanges not allowing fiat deposits of course

actually getting rid of all the tax issues is pretty simple
You create a legit account with verification
make fiat deposit
buy btc
buy privacy coin with btc
withdraw privacy coin to a wallet
create an account on binance/whatever
deposit privacy coins, buy whatever you want
you started with buying 5 btc for fiat
you have now 20 btc because of trading shitcoins that noone will be able to prove because of the privacy coin thing
you tell them you bought 5 btc and mined the remaining 15 5 years ago
profit
taxman sucks your dick

FastChef
FastChef

@lostmypassword
Pretty much this

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@CouchChiller
See an accountant now and do it now. Government would prefer that you go ahead and pay them by your own accord rather than waiting for them to catch you.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@CouchChiller
you're lucky the CRA is slow, I worked for the CRA for 8 months this year :-)

Meet up with an accountant and sort your shit out.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@PurpleCharger
@GoogleCat
Well the other problem is i overstayed my visa and I never paid taxes to begin with because i came as an international student. I got married here and we are just filing for my PR now (all the work I did only via paypal was freelance stuff for USA). I tried to enter the SIN on the CRA site and it said it was invalid since mine expired in 2014.

Shit i dont know, maybe i'll go back to my home country instead of filing PR here.

cum2soon
cum2soon

@VisualMaster
It doesn't matter if it's a bank account a BTC wallet or your mattress, if you're being audited you might have to show.

Your plan for hiding the money is fine, hiding the money actually isn't that fucking hard but you will have to keep it hidden forever which means no lambos.

Methshot
Methshot

@cum2soon
oh and if you want to hide it don't connect it with a fucking account in your name, at least start off properly and buy it for cash off some fucknut on the street

Methnerd
Methnerd

@w8t4u
Sell everything then buy back in. Claim your losses against tax.
Why is evryone so stupid.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@lostmypassword

I don't want to live in fucking Denmark

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@cum2soon
@Methshot
of course to live comfy with lambos you have to pay to the jews but I was only saying how to avoid taxing every single trade by hiding behind monero/verge/whatever
I'm not against paying taxes, I'm against complicating things unnecesserily
at the end of the day what fucking difference does it make if you pay 25% of what you cash out or 25% of each gain miexed with losses?

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@Emberburn
move to Denmark
cash out
move out of Denmark
???

Spamalot
Spamalot

@Stupidasole
how much time do you have to spend in denmark in order to cash out tax-free do you need a resident status or some shit?
and then how long untill you can go back to your country without getting fucked by the jews again?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

How much do they tax your crypto? I don't know shit about this

Flameblow
Flameblow

@Spamalot
If you're a US citizen you owe taxes to the US no matter where you are in the world. So you'd be double-taxed unless you renounce citizenship.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@Deadlyinx
What country you in?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@Spamalot
You'll just need a Danish bank account to cash out, so a residence permit it is. You can get everything set up in under 2 months. But I've no idea about visa, so dyor on that.
then how long untill you can go back to your country without getting fucked by the jews again?
Depends. Do they know you have crypto?

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@BinaryMan
well its completely different. Really all you goys need to be doing for now is keeping the proper records, its a fucking pain in the ass getting it all sorted out initially but its easy to stay on top of and is valuable information for yourself and your accountant if you're in those figures.

Whether or not you want or intend to ever pay taxes you need to fully understand your position so you can either minimize your tax or not get caught evading, for most people on this board it will be a lot less of a fuckaround to just pay, if you don't put the effort into not getting caught evading you run a real risk of being fucked in the ass.

JunkTop
JunkTop

@Flameblow
the united states of cucks

King_Martha
King_Martha

@JunkTop

Other countries don't have absurd tax laws

Snarelure
Snarelure

@w8t4u
Cash out your BTC. After tonight it will be worthless anyway

Evilember
Evilember

@New_Cliche
@Stark_Naked
@Spamalot
This guy gets it.

Unfortunately.

tfw burger

viagrandad
viagrandad

@Evilember
Exactly. For all the fucking bitching and moaning about the big boys paying no tax it's no fucking surprise that so few people can actually be fucked putting in the effort needed to get a good deal on it, it borders fucking nigger mentality.

Anons optimizing your tax is the same as making money, it takes some work and effort either all by yourself or to delegate the hard stuff out to a professional. If you want to actually get somewhere by purely evading and staying free it's going to be even more work.

This shit is a fucking mini game in running a business and if it's really this fucking difficult for you then you must know you will forever cuck. Get the shit done and get it done right anons

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@viagrandad
This shit is a fucking mini game in running a business and if it's really this fucking difficult for you then you must know you will forever cuck. Get the shit done and get it done right anons

I'm trying. Investing is the first time I've ever looked at tax shit, it's a whole new world.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@GoogleCat
I'm trying

That is levels ahead of most anons, you'll be fine, pick a software upload your histories clean it all up and use the reports to get the numbers you need

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@w8t4u
Enjoy prison

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@Evilember
where is this pic from roger from?
he looks mad af boiiiiiiiiii

SniperGod
SniperGod

Im reporting a loss on cryptos and already pay taxes out the ass in miami. Im just claiming that if they want more they can ask me for it its all in trades anyway. Not worried in the SLIGHTEST. Luckily i have maybe 80k dumped into coinbase and have only taken out maybe 15k over 3 months. All were bank transfers of 500-1500.

SniperWish
SniperWish

@haveahappyday
that's from a few days ago when his trashcoin dumped on his ass

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

My roommate has a realestate license and a mortgage license.
Just talked to him about it and he says in California there is a 34% short-term property tax law.
Looked it up, and there is.

I read the fucking law, and it says if you made profit but lost it, your losses are tax exempt under $3,000.

Let's say you bought eth at $19. And now it is at 300. Bought CHC with it at 6.50. That's a taxable event. CHC went down to $.10. You still gunna owe all that money. Between 19 bucks to 300 dollars worth of eth.

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Dreamworx
That's a taxable event. CHC went down to $.10. You still gunna owe all that money. Between 19 bucks to 300 dollars worth of eth.

Wait holy shit what?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

@SniperWish
naw man
he looks older now

Techpill
Techpill

@cum2soon
If you try to hide the money the short term tax is 54%. If you under report it is 74% not including interest.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@Dreamworx
your losses are tax exempt under $3,000.

i don't know this much about amerifat law, are you sure this isn't for deducting a net capital loss against income tax?

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

@LuckyDusty
No let's say I made 100 grand in profit and I lost it all. I would still owe 97k worth of taxes.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

@New_Cliche
@LuckyDusty
34%of 97k

Lunatick
Lunatick

@New_Cliche
If that 100 grand involved trades between shitcoins, then you should have taken a percentage of each trade out as fiat for tax-paying purposes.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@New_Cliche
@Stark_Naked
yea, people will go to jail because losing money trading is illegal
holy fuck, who believes that shit

SniperWish
SniperWish

@New_Cliche
No dude your wrong unless you are still holding your losses. You would sell your coins on December 31st and then re buy them to make your losses realized . And you get taxed on net profit which is now 3k

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Dreamworx
Absolutely not . Your entirely wrong . It's net profit and losses for the year

w8t4u
w8t4u

@New_Cliche
@Stark_Naked
That is some backwards ass shit, makes no sense to me that a capital loss wouldn't offset a capital gain, it's really fucked up

Techpill
Techpill

@SniperWish
This is how it is for ausfags and makes complete sense

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Dreamworx
You're confused. It's saying you're allowed to deduct up to 3000 from your income if you make a net loss. Net capital gains is calculated by Gains - Losses.

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/private-foundations/tax-on-net-investment-income-capital-gains-and-losses

Capital losses from the sale or other disposition of investment property may be subtracted from capital gains incurred in the sale or disposition of other investment property during the same tax year, but only to the extent of the gains.

girlDog
girlDog

@Skullbone
So if you made a trade that profited you 100k and then made a trade that lost you 100k, your net capital gains is 0. But if you made a trade that profited you 100k then made a trade that lost you 150k. You have a -50k capital loss.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capital-loss-carryover.asp

3k of that capital loss you can deduct from your other income tax. and 47k can be put towards offsetting future capital gains.

Methshot
Methshot

@girlDog
So if you made a trade that profited you 100k and then made a trade

As soon as you say "make trade", in Australia and USA you are then subject to a capital gains event.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@Methshot
I'm aware of that, read my other posts, but you pay capital gains based on net gain or loss at the end of the tax year. Not just based on that one trade. If you make a loss, it offsets the gain trust me on that.

massdebater
massdebater

@Methshot
Yeah you realize the gain on the first 100k and realize a loss on the 2nd 100k net 0

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@Sir_Gallonhead
@massdebater
But after you make the original 100k, does the government even care if you make a shit investment after the fact with that same 100k? Don't they basically want a piece of the pay as soon as that 100k is traded?

askme
askme

@Methshot
Oh yeah but you'd be fucked in this scenario. I THINK. (unless anyone can correct me)
You make a trade that profits you $100,000
You buy a coin that loses you -$100,000 in value.
You don't realize the capital loss by selling the coin for USD or another crypto before the end of the year.
You now have a tax bill for that $100,000.
You don't have the money.

So always realize any losses before the end of the year.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@ZeroReborn
Yeah it's all based on net gain or loss at the end of the year. The second right before January 1st.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

@askme
@whereismyname

To back me up on this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States
Strategic losses
The ability to use capital losses to offset capital gains in the same year is discussed above. Toward the end of a tax year, some investors sell assets that are worth less than the investor paid for them to obtain this tax benefit.

Yeah so you have to be mindful of realizing your losses before the end of the year so you don't pay more than you have to.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@askme
so you want to tell u that mr IRS wants us to buy high and sell low?
holy kek, those posts get better each time

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@Fried_Sushi
They would probably prefer that you didn't so that on paper it would look like you still have a net gain and owe them money.

RumChicken
RumChicken

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/coinbase-likely-to-lose-battle-to-protect-users-from-irs-bitcoin-tax-probe/

Good luck everybody

SniperWish
SniperWish

will put 50% aside for tax man
not ever selling until it is life-changing money
wagecuck and accumulate accordingly

Listen to me, Anons

likme
likme

Does anyone know how margin trading works in regards to tax purposes? Is it just regular trading but with greater volume as you use leverage?

I've done pretty well with regular trading, but have lost a ton due to margin trading. Can I subtract that from total capital gains?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

someone sends you a random shitcoins worth 100k without you even knowing it
shitcoins drops almost to 0 by the end of the year
be forced to pay 30k
that's what tax cucks believe in

StonedTime
StonedTime

@lostmypassword
t. brainlet

eGremlin
eGremlin

@VisualMaster
This confuses me. Technically if you don't cash out into fiat, aren't we always trading in BTC? Alts are always valued in BTC and can't be purchased directly depending on the exchange you use. Therefore trading into alts shouldn't actually be considered realized gains on an asset.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Stark_Naked
@Spamalot
big if tru

I have no idea how to track every single one of my trades and then apply all the taxes. Not like my gains have really been anything besides btc gains anyway.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@lostmypassword
you only pay taxes on gains based on how much you invested.
invest 1000 and turn it into 3000 you pay taxes on the 2000$ gain.

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Booteefool
well according to tax specialists here you have to cash your gains out ASAP before it becomes a loss, otherwise you'll have to take a loan to pay the tax on unrealized gainz brah

Skullbone
Skullbone

@Stark_Naked
So does that mean if I buy a car and it depreciates in value and I can deduct the amount it went down in value from my taxes?

RavySnake
RavySnake

@GoogleCat
I have no idea how to track every single one of my trades and then apply all the taxes.

bitcoin.tax

cointracking.info

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

@VisualMaster
You owe taxes on the 15 bitcoin you "mined" when you decide to sell them.

Emberfire
Emberfire

@Skullbone
Yes actually

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Playboyize
Depends on your definition of "unrealized" The IRS guidance clearly states that you realize capital gains when you sell for goods, services, or any other property based on "fair market value".

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

Find me where it says you can only realize capital gains if you sell for fiat.

@Skullbone
For cars I have no idea but Donald Trump writes off millions every year from depreciation of property.

@Lord_Tryzalot
You'd have to pay even more taxes if you claimed you mined them because they would all be taxed as income and the cost basis would be 0 as opposed to being able to subtract the cost basis if you report your trades.

iluvmen
iluvmen

@Garbage Can Lid
@Lord_Tryzalot
Oh and if they ever find any evidence that those coins weren't mined and in fact traded, it's jailtime for tax fraud.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

@Methnerd
Could you explain further?

Inmate
Inmate

@Lord_Tryzalot
@iluvmen
And the IRS has been contracting a company called Chainalysis to analyze the blockchain and detect tax fraud. There's a lot of criminals they'd like to catch that launder drug money by saying they "mined" the BTC. Why would you risk being grouped in with that when all you did was trade shitcoins?

Playboyize
Playboyize

@Garbage Can Lid
All this stuff is impossible to keep track of
you have 2 btc
you spend 1 btc on 100 shitcoin for 0.01btc each
then you spend another 1 btc for the same shitcoin but now the price is 0.02btc each so you get 50 pieces
at this point still no gains or losses have been made everything is clear
now the price of the shitcoin is 0.15btc and you decide to sell 20pieces of your shitcoin for that price

how do you know if you made gains or losses? you bought shitcoins at different prices levels, how do you decide whch "part" is the one you're selling? is it coming from the part bought for 0.01 or 0.02btc?
what if you keep them on separate wallets so you can choose the one bought cheaper?
It's not like they're different, it's still the exact same coin

and that's all just talking about btc-shitcoin price, now the btc-usd factor comes to play, good luck with that

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

@w8t4u
Buy some JUSTed account ;) no gainz on paper
Problem solved smugpepe.png
reward here
1LdtXD6Riuw9Jx2B8C3Wc5xMjjq9qKoNc9

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@Playboyize
"It's too complicated" is not a defense that would fly when you're being audited. There's tax software that takes care of all this and the method they suggest using to keep track of which "batch" of coins you're buying or selling is called FIFO (first in first out). There's other methods but the IRS guidance just says to use a consistently applied method.

TreeEater
TreeEater

You guys are nuts, I’ll just cash out before the end of the year and fill out the form for short term capital gains. I’ll save tracking down every single trade I’ve ever made over the course of the entire year for if they decide to audit me.

Snarelure
Snarelure

@Stark_Naked
The gist of this at the end of the year you owe taxes on the fiat values your gains.

Yes. This is true. It's very simple, you pay the tax you owe on your gains and you copy the trade transaction history from the exchange.

Why is this rocket science?

Nojokur
Nojokur

@Snarelure
What if you bought stuff on etherdelta? What if you got coins from an ICO? Where’s the “trade history” then?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

@TreeEater
so you want to cash out, pay taxes and put your money back but less? sounds like a great plan

idontknow
idontknow

@Playboyize
As far as I'm aware you can define your "lots" (which group you're selling) however you'd like.

likme
likme

@Nojokur
You have to track that yourself. However you should know how much gains you made if you're not a dumbass.

Pay your fucking taxes ok. Just do it.

Emberburn
Emberburn

@Sir_Gallonhead
It's not a matter of wanting to. It's a matter of not wanting to fuck with the IRS. You have to pay the capital gains tax either through your fiat stack or cash out some coin to pay it that way.

RumChicken
RumChicken

@VisualMaster
Register an enterprise and exclude investements from your taxable income. This would work in EU. If you are a burger neck yourself.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Emberburn
so
you pay the unrealized gain tax
next year your coins crash to 0

will mr IRS be so generous to help you ?
in4
you can write it off on your next trades
what if there is no next trades

anon trades shitcoins, loses everything
mr IRS makes bank off of his unrealized gains

is this the ultimate cuckening? is it real life?

WebTool
WebTool

As a philosophical question, why should I pay taxes on crypto - crypto exchanges. The government is forcing us to value everything in fiat so It can take taxes. If I make a value trade without using fiat I'm not using any of the government resources, why should I compensate them for that?

Booteefool
Booteefool

@WebTool
BECAUSE HURRR EVERYONE DOES IT YOU NEED TO DO IT TOO, DON'T ASK QUESTIONS MAN
JAMAL NEEDS A NEW IPHONE AND SHANIQUA'S BIRTH CONTROL IS ALMOST OUT, WE NEED TO PAY HURRR DURR, JUST PAY MAN TRUST ME

see@likme

Flameblow
Flameblow

@WebTool

Because Jamal will wreck your boipussy if the IRS finds out you haven't given them their cut.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

@Booteefool
another example
you want to borrow your friend 20k$
le wild taxman appears
hurr we need to be involved in this transaction, give us 20% now, and then 20% when your friend is giving you your money back

people are slowly weaking up to this madness and crypto will put an end to this
just don't cash out and wait till the nightmare is over

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Flameblow
IRS finds out

Yeah I'm sure that will ever happen. What are they gonna do force me to log into bittrex at gunpoint?

Emberfire
Emberfire

@happy_sad
man it's not even about that
look at the decentralised exchanges, privacy coins making you disappear, the IRS can literally suck our dicks. All they can do is trace some stupid boomers who don't know how to hide themselves properly

Supergrass
Supergrass

@Bidwell
Their definition of "realized" is different from yours. It's the same with stocks. If you made money one year and paid tax on the gains, then you lose all your money next year they're not going to refund you your taxes.

I'm only providing arguments of what the rules are that the IRS expects you to comply with at the threat of having your asshole raped by Jamal. You're only providing arguments on how those rules are "unfair". Which do nothing to take away from the fact that you still have to do it or risk getting your asshole raped by Jamal.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@Supergrass
you have to be naive to think they will execute those rules

99% of crypto traders are totaly fucking clueless about taxes, you think they will arrest thousands of neets because they didn't even know they have to pay taxes on something they never cashed out?

Spamalot
Spamalot

@happy_sad
They're already battling in court to make coinbase hand over all trade records. Once that precedent is set they're gonna go to all "fiat gateways" and use "ChainAlysis" to figure out where you sent all your coins. Then from there what's to stop them from making bittrex and poloniex hand over all customer records?

TreeEater
TreeEater

@happy_sad
Well user, they’re the government. They kind of have a history of forcing people to do things at gunpoint.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@AwesomeTucker
You have to be naive to think they won't. This is a gold mine for them. Read this article and tell me they're not out to fuck crypto traders in the ass:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/coinbase-likely-to-lose-battle-to-protect-users-from-irs-bitcoin-tax-probe/

And remember, they have 10 years to catch any trades you didn't report because the statute of limitations for taxes is 10 years.

girlDog
girlDog

@Spamalot
Use Monero.

Methshot
Methshot

@Nude_Bikergirl
I never used cuckbase and then again even if you did just buy a privacy coin that's gonna be untraceable and their "ChainAlysis" will be like a dog chasing its onw tail
so you only pay once you cash out one day, you don't have to worry about this crypto-crypto bullshit and paying to the jews every year even though you never cash out.

The cucks at IRS are fighting a lost battle, sure they can jail some people to "give an example" but when full privacy and decentralized exchanges hit mainstream there is nothing mr IRS can do
at the end you just claim you got those bitcoins from 2009 and just remember about them paying tax once, not every fucking year

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Dreamworx
explain

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

It's clear that a lot of shitcoiners are gonna be rekt by taxes once the IRS catches up with this stuff. Made a million on ETH, then converted to BTC for long term hodl? You now owe 300k+ to Uncle Sam. Fucked around in the next year and lost most of your stack? You still owe that 300k. You're going to prison eventually unless you flee the country like the other shitcoin scammers.

farquit
farquit

@Fried_Sushi
Land of the free
Jesus, this is total madness and it's gonna trun out to be true if you believe in it.
And many americans make fun of Russia/China or North Korea
kek

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@farquit
Man plenty of people know this isn't the land of the free. For example just look at part of an image from the bitcoin.tax site I looked at. Look where I circled and you see the coiner tax payer has a ball and chain around his ankle lol.

How it works

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

@VisualMaster
yea, I'm gonna be cashing out in europe, fuck that.
But anyway, like I said, IRS is fighting a lost battle. People will always be able to hide their wealth in privacy coins

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

@New_Cliche
What about if your trading leverage usd/btc? I'm assuming I can just do the capital gains on what I entered with a few months ago?

hairygrape
hairygrape

@BlogWobbles
cashing out in europe
always be able to hide their wealth in privacy coins
tyrone loves fresh meat

SniperWish
SniperWish

@hairygrape
he also loves new iphones and red shoes that your gonna fund him, you cuck, oh, also, Ahmed needs you're hard earned money too so he can pay your wife's son to clean his house

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

@SniperWish
lol. At least tyrone and ahmed won't be prolapsing my asshole, gayboi.

Any institution in Europe WILL report your transaction to the US. All foreign income is taxable domestically, in addition to any tax imposed by the country where the income originates. It's a luxury of being a US citizen.
privacy coins
The FBI already has on-demand access to all personal information on major exchanges (this litigation has been made public and has set a presided), even foreign ones, how far behind can the IRS be on that, if they don't already? The privacy aspect of your coin is irrelevant if you have to use an exchange with kyc at any point.

Your only hope is to make in-person monero transactions for tangible assets that are carefully organized, IF you didn't use an exchange to acquire them.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@eGremlin

IRS
reasonable people

LMAO
anywho
Im a hodler and I have executed almost 100 trades in the last coupe of months
how would a serious trader even begin to track all his trades?
its absolute nonsense. a law like this would be not enforcable.

viagrandad
viagrandad

@CouchChiller
I was born in Europe and have dual citizenship so no fucks given

The privacy aspect of your coin is irrelevant if you have to use an exchange with kyc at any point.
I use buttrex without any verification, same goes for binance etc. not to mention decentralied exchanges whom IRS can suck dicks

Playboyize
Playboyize

@viagrandad
never pay taxes
just reach for the shotgun if I ever caught

checkmate

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@Fried_Sushi
You have to go back

RumChicken
RumChicken

@Playboyize
this
taking the irs cucks with you like Tony Montana in the last scenes of Scarface

takes2long
takes2long

If BCH moons and I make $1.5mil, and transfer it all to USDT and just pull out whatever I need in little bits and pieces at a time, how would the IRS ever know?

FastChef
FastChef

Structuring will get you sent to prison where Tyrone and Jamal will spit roast you.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

@takes2long
something something Jamal and your boipucci

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

@w8t4u
Legit lol'd to this, your post still has a good point

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

@takes2long
They will know. Pay them. Seriously. This is the best piece of advice you ever receive regarding investing.

At the end of the year. See your gains and then pay the capital gains tax.

Methnerd
Methnerd

@Fried_Sushi
Made a million on ETH, then converted to BTC for long term hodl? You now owe 300k+ to Uncle Sam.

My one question is do you pay right there at the trade or at the end of the year?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

@Methnerd
Like take this scenario:

I get 5k fiat to BTC.
BTC to ETH
ETH gains another 5k fiat.
ETH to BTC.

Do I now owe 1.75k to IRS no matter what happens after that?

Lunatick
Lunatick

@Methnerd

Whenever you file your taxes for the year.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

@Methnerd
just pay 2 times man, trust me we need to pay, better be safe than sorry, pay 2 times, 600k is not much for the great public services roads etc that we have anyway

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

@GoogleCat
This
And we need to fund the affirmative action programs too. Stop being racist with these white supremacist cryptos.

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