People being worried about taxes and shit

>live Australia
>check ATO website
>realize they don’t even tax us unless we are a trading business
>feel tsunami waves of comfort

Because I ordered my fucking tenx card in july and I'm still waiting...

is there any pizzabro here? need to know how much is taxes

exactly. any realized gain is taxable. That means that whenever you buy something using crypto in the US you are subject to capital gains taxes. Have fun buying your cup of coffee with that card.

If I buy an altcoin with BTC and it moons 50% and then sell it back to BTC, do I use the USD cost of BTC when I bought the altcoin as my cost basis or do I adjust it for the time I sold the altcoin?

FUCK!

What if im just tossing around a few dollars here and there?

I dont have to report anything under 10 or 100 bucks do I?

If so im fucked because ive prolly done like 500 trades and only profited like 50 bucks.. lolol

>pay capital gains on every trade

Maybe, probably not. Short of rehashing the entire debate--the IRS has been less than clear on this, but the best reading of the law is that trading one crypto for another crypto is an exchange of like-kind assets and not taxable. The taxable event is why you cash-out a crypto to fiat or use it to by some non-crypto good like a game, real estate, etc. (not that it matters on this anonymous board, but I'm a lawyer).

It is net gains less net losses. What did you start with and what did you end up with? Put your net loss or gain on your schedule D. Now print out those trades to attach them to for 8949 unless it is just a few trades that you can write in.

Be sure that whatever you enter or send in with your 8949 matches what you wrote down on your Schedule D.

*Not professional tax advice.

Agree with you user. Most alts can't be purchased directly so you're pretty much always just in BTC itself, just under the name of the alt. Paying taxes at the cash out makes the most sense.

Yep. It has all the exact same justifications of other like-kind exchanges where tax is differed. Can you imagine how incredibly confusing it would be if we were taxed on every crytpo-for-crypto exchange? It just makes more sense, and achieves the same effect in the end, for the taxable event to be cash-out to fiat or trade for some not-like-kind good.

You are making assumptions. At this time, the IRS classifies crypto as real property like stocks. Because of that you must report your net gains with supporting evidence and pay taxes on those gains. If your income is under a certain amount ($9325 for single filers for 2017) you will owe 10% for short term gains an zero for long term gains.

*not tax advice

They have been 100% clear on this actually.
irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

All you need to know is that all cryptos are property and this:

>Q-6: Does a taxpayer have gain or loss upon an exchange of virtual currency for other property?
>A-6: Yes. If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency.

So a crypto to crypto trade would be treated as a property for property trade, which requires you to pay tax if the fair market value of the trade exceeds your cost basis.

Like kind exchanges don't mean you have to pay tax or that you don't have to report it. You have to fill out a two page form for EACH trade and they have to approve it in order to DEFER the gain. I've never heard of anyone successful filing their crypto trades as like-kind.

irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8824.pdf

You need to find the fair market value at the time of each trade by using Alt / BTC * BTC / USD

> (OP)
>>He doesn't know you have to pay capital gains on every trade.
Not if they don't know who you are on the exchange lol tell me how the fuck they are going to link you to any transaction or trade if you never out your info down?

Is it possible to get a tenx card without giving them all your 411?

It doesn't matter what makes sense. I agree that it doesn't make sense and that it is not fair, but that is the way crypto is classified by the IRS, so you do owe taxes on your net gains.

Imagine cashing out next year and those transactions are reported to the IRS. You didn't pay taxes on those gains but now the IRS wants to see where they came from. You have to provide your trade information. They will see that it is from a previous year and fine you as well as charge you interest. Sometimes they wait for years and go after people and those fines and interest accumulate to outrageous amounts.

*not tax advice

>
>Yep. It has all the exact same justifications of other like-kind exchanges where tax is differed. Can you imagine how incredibly confusing it would be if we were taxed on every crytpo-for-crypto exchange? It just makes more sense, and achieves the same effect in the end, for the taxable event to be cash-out to fiat or trade for some not-like-kind good.
Can you imagine how completely retarded it would be if you sold a camera on Craigslist and then bought a different used one of OfferUp? Technically the IRS wants you doing the same thing , fuk that. Oh and the IRS wants you to report income you've made by selling illegal drugs too. They've even written that into the rules lmao. What a joke

You. Can't. Get. Like-kind. Treatment. by default. You still have to report each exchange on this 2 page form: (Yes every single one)

irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8824.pdf

And then they have to approve the deferral. If you don't file it this year and next year you cash out, then they ask
"Wait, where did you get all this money from?"
"W-well I made these trades last year but they were like-kind so I didn't pay tax."
"We didn't get any like-kind forms from you. We're coming over to your house with a magnifying glass in 2 seconds. Say hello to tyrone in prison".

Exactly. Crypto does not qualify for like-kind treatment anyway.

so what happens if i but all my btc in bitpay credit card and buy gold?

Only pussies report their crypto gainz.

>Implying there are real gains to be made in your stupid coins anyways.

tips

Burger land is where your gainz come to die.

When you sell the gold to a dealer, it is reported so without having provided a cost basis for the gold it will be assumed that you owe taxes on 100% of what you sold it for.

You're probably right about the reporting requirements, but I don't read that Q and A you highlighted as saying it's not a like kind exchange. It says "exchange of virtual currency for *other* property" -- it's far from clear that this Q and A applies to crypto-for-crypto exchanges. I've read many articles that say it's still disputed whether this is a like-kind exchange and I doubt analysis would still be saying that if this IRS paper answered it directly.

>any realized gain
>realized
Exactly, is BTC>shitcoin>BTC is not realized? You would think BTC>shitcoin>BTC>USD would be realized.

So either way you need to report it. If you think that it qualifies for a like-kind exchange then file the paperwork and they will let you know what they decide. Otherwise you have to file the appropriate forms and pay capital gains taxes on net gains.

I don't like this any better than anyone else. I will probably end up paying over $20,000 in short term capital gains taxes this year. I just imagine what the fines and interest on that amount would be if they ever came after me for that in the future.

Now remember, you already paid taxes on those trades so your start out all over again after January 1st and if you take out fiat next year or even years from now, make sure that it is classified as FIFO and obviously you don't pay taxes again.

You might want that to be true, but it is not. The IRS currently says that any trade is a realized gain or loss.

True, they didn't flat out say like-kind exchanges don't apply to crypto - crypto. But a lot of anons take this to mean they don't have to report anything or think it applies by default. This may lead to the scenario I laid out here:
They consider it "realized" if you trade for any property at all that has monetary value even if USD was never touched.

>why the fuck would you pull out of crypto ever ?

maybe to buy food, clothes pay rent and other bills ?

Does saying "sophisticated" and "astonishing" make you feel smart?

It's honestly annoying that they haven't made this crystal-clear. Someone is going to get fucked by their lack of clarity. Fuck the IRS, honestly.

I FUCKING LOVE MY NEW TENX CARD HHAHAHA FEELS GOOD TO FINALLY BE ABLE TO SPEND ALL THAT MONEY I EARNED WITH CRYPTO AND TENX HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA LIFE IS GOODDDDD CANT WAIT TO BUY MY LAMBO WITH TENX NEXT YEAR

you're either 9, indian or autistic

I pull out because I like diversification and not having all my money tied up in one asset class if it blows the fuck up on me. I mean I'm still a while from cashing out, but I'm not riding my 1 bitcoin all the way to 1 million without slicing off a bit here and there in case congress decides all the funny money is illegal and starts outlawing shit.

Doing some more reading. From everything I've read people are still divided on whether like-kind applies and the IRS has not provided clear guidance to resolve that debate (reading Forbes, investopedia, law firm commentary, etc.). It seems to me that the most likely scenario is that like-kind applies, meaning that gains are not realized on crypto-to-crypto exchanges BUT (and this is the part most anons are ignoring, which may get them in trouble), that means that you are required to submit a 1031 to report all like-kind crypto exchanges. However, commentators seem to agree that the MOST risk-averse approach is to treat trades as being profit-realization events and go ahead and pay capital gains taxes.

Obviously the IRS is going to track whale gains, but do we think they'll go after minnows, too? What is the cut-off? At one point the IRS went after Coinbase's records for anyone with over $20k in transactions.

>americucks
Please be aware not everyone here is a lapdog of occupied palestine (isr*el)

>implying this isn't their plan, to get people to avoid crypto entirely to kill it without banning it outright

Still have to gib to the taxman. But only if you make a profit and only if you eventually cash out to fiat. So until then don't worry about it because they can't tax you on non-realized (non USD) gains

You're still taxed on purchases made with crypto right? Either way this seems impossible to enforce. Seeing as how only around 800 people declared crypto in their taxes I see a huge tax bubble brewing. Wonder what the outcome will be.

Alright. I'm gonna send them 5000 pages of this to see what happens.

I bet the main reason why crypto is doing well is because of lack of tax enforcement.

Actually desu this is something I've never understood. Like you're supposed to pay taxes on each trade. Short term capital gains. But how does that make sense if you trade once or twice a month?

Like during tax season, you just say "hey I turned $500 into $1000 but it's still bitcoin." the irs can't just say give me 40% of each trade of not real money?

(I'm saying not real from the government's perspective, spergs)

Tenx

Recommend good crypto credit cards that don't have huge spreads for BTC/USD exchange pls

Taxes are for cucks. Low inhibition Chads evade all taxes

>"hey I turned $500 into $1000 but it's still bitcoin."
>... "Well then take it out and gib it to us."

>Bbut that'd be another taxable event

Yup.