Sorin vs. Nahiri: Showdown Edition

Seriously. Nahiri is very much the designated Villain. You literally have a band of protagonists forming to stop her.

Because of the genders involved in the active ol' walkers, people get their SJW in there.

Personally, the fight between Nahiri and Sorin works independent of their genders.

>its still pretty obvious Sorin isn't the designated bad guy
Oh yeah, because the "Nahiri was in the Helvault!!!11" retcon makes total sense, and is definitely not some asspull excuse for her to destroy best plane and get away with it.

Nahiri's only not completely a villian because she got locked up for 1000 years because Sorin wanted to pull rank.

As much as I like Nahiri I think after she's inevitably told about Zendikar being alright a good end for her would be to planeswalk back there and see that the home she fought so hard for and gave up on so quickly is actually recovering causes her to sort of snap out of her rage and realize what she's done before committing suicide.

>Sure, they had to contradict the fuck out of his established character
"Fuck everyone except myself [but I gotta keep Innistrad going]" is his established character.
Now that the bracketed part is no longer available, it's all he's got left.
Remember: both Sorin and Nahiri fully bought into Ugin's disinformation and believe the Eldrazi cannot be stopped, no matter what. Sorin has already given up on Innistrad. He just wants revenge now.

Yeah it does make sense. Sorin is a total asshole. He's always been an asshole. Sure he's done alot more good than bad in his life, but he has always looked after Sorin first, Innistrad second, everything else a way distant third

Oldwalkers are assholes.

At least Liliana's doing alright for a queen bitch.

What's the deal, exactly?

Why is Sigarda the only Angel to resist the corruption. Even Avacyn fell, and she is untainted.

Didn't Soring walk right the fuck out of Innistrad as soon as Emrakul showed up?
These fucking retcons are getting worse than Marvel.

Hexproof nigga

It's quite obvious that Nahiri is the queen bitch and all that. But I find that they're trying to paint it as that it's not black and white between the two.
It's just the justification of the two are completely stupid and childish but then they're oldwalkers and i think you have to be quite the arrogant egoist and stubborn prick to actually be an oldwalker.

Never heard that.

Watch as they expect us to forgive her because evil badguy Sorin put her in the corner for muh gazillion years.

I could actually see that if somehow someway Sorin and Nahiri calmed down, they could just go to Ugin and be all what the fuck you scaled cunt.

Emrakul's corruption is clearly not a thing that targets, it planewipes.

He didn't Planeswalk, he just left the cathedral without talking to Jace or Tami. It was just poorly worded in the story

Yeah and? Godlike power tends to make people pricks

The angelic mindraping was conducted in alphabetical order.

Sigarda was to be the last.

Not really, because getting imprisoned for such a long time doesn't excuse summoning an eldritch monstrosity and committing planar omnicide.

It's a twisted karmic justice, but not one that you can absolve Nahiri of unless you're an absolute sociopath.

2/4 greater angels can avoid eldrazi corruption.

Too bad Avacyn killed the black white angel.

Read old Sigarda. Can't target her and she prevents you from saccing permanents.

The anti-annhilator

>nearly every Planeswalker involved in the Eldrazi arc just fucking teleports into Tarkir and yells at Ugin

>Jace drops the bombshell that they blew up Emrakul

>Ugin is like FOOL, YOU MESSED WITH THE NATURAL ORDER, GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>out of fucking nowhere, Narset pops in and asks to hang out with the cool kids, Jace starts panicking at the thought of yet another female planeswalker being added to the entourage

Getting Helvaulted sucked, but her getting Helvaulted resulting in the release of the Eldrazi and the destruction of Zendikar (which is how she sees it) is pretty much unforgiveable. As far as she is concerned, Sorin let a petty grudge undo her entire life's work and destroy her home plane. A grudge that amounted to "I'm older than you, so I don't have to keep promises".

If you believe, as Nahiri and Sorin do, that the Elrazi cannot be destroyed, only contained... then Nahiri has two choices:

Do nothing. Sorin goes unpunished for his betrayal, and entire planes of people die.

Direct Emrakul to Innistrad. Sorin gets his punishment. Entire planes of people will still die.

Someone is getting their plane eaten no matter what. Its only 'fair' that if Nahiri has to lose her home, Sorin does too.

The fuck is with the timing on the Hellvault anyway? Did she just get kicked out and stumble away like a hungover one-nighter? How and when did she get the crazy from Emy? How did this bullshit plot come about the way it did? Why is The Bitch, The Bitch?

>The fuck is with the timing on the Hellvault anyway? Did she just get kicked out and stumble away like a hungover one-nighter?
Everyone got kicked out of the Helvault at the same time. And yes, she stumbled out not too far away from Liliana and Thalia. She immediately planeswalked away in a confused panic since she was still reeling from not being an oldwalker anymore.
>How and when did she get the crazy from Emy?
She does not get her madness from Emrakul.
>How did this bullshit plot come about the way it did?
Sorin and Nahiri were both petty and obstinate, and a misunderstanding led to completely undeserved punishments for both sides.
>Why is The Bitch, The Bitch?
Because she was trapped in 1000 years of darkness and only held onto her sanity by dreaming up a pretty picture of perfect Zendikar, and the second thing she sees after planeswalking out of the darkness is an entire continent devoured by Ulamog.
She's cracked in the head.

Fuck off waifufag.
When someone crosses you, you kill them, not their whole town.

Nahiri is a cunt and needs to die. Sorin actually went to look after Zendikar when he was stronger and sensed danger. It's not his fault you can't reason with the PMSing ragecunts, the racist whinecunts, or the whole entourage of idiots playing Bolas' game.

Like I said, karmic justice.

It is, however, still an absolutely horrific and unforgiveable act. A villain can have a sympathetic origin story, but it doesn't absolve them of their crime.

Cracked in the head doesn't begin to describe it.

Imagine what the Red-White color identity stands for. It's a passionate color pair that likes it when things are working as they are intended to be working. Now imagine what happens when it gets fucking pissed.

You get Nahiri. Pissed off, vindictive, and looking to meet an eye for an eye.

She's spent at least two years plotting to destroy Innistrad instead of searching for Ugin, or taking a second look at how Zendikar isn't actually destroyed.

>Sorin actually went to look after Zendikar when he was stronger and sensed danger
Perhaps because he felt some slimy measure of guilt at the fact that he trapped Zendikar's protector in a rock and didn't think about her for 1000 years?
Oh wait that's exactly what happened
>The notion of shame had long since evaporated from Sorin. Over the millennia, Sorin's human frailties and neurosis had grown, blossomed, and withered away—he was as immune to regret as he was to old age. And yet, for the first time in years, an uncomfortable feeling grew within him, an unpleasant itch, the sense that he was responsible—solely—for something important going awry. It wasn't remorse exactly, just a dull, discordant echo ringing in the space where remorse had once resided.

Except that quote is from long after the Zendikar block.

This post is edgier than Sorin is

>sympathetic
she got in the way of a millennia old vampire

that's like willingly lying on the train tracks

>She's not even Eldrazi crazy

I didn't realise I could hate her more.

Do you think he went to Zendikar after the Eye of Ugin's alarm rung because he swore a promise, or because he knew Nahiri wasn't going to deal with it?
Remember: when he's not fighting for Innistrad's safety, Sorin is pure black.

I literally do not give a shit what happens to any of these people anymore. Post-Tarkir Magic lore is absolute garbage.

It's kinda correct.

Both Sorin and Nahiri acted like oldwalker shits in the past. Sorin was too arrogant because that's who he is, and Nahiri jeopardized the process because she wanted senpai to notice her, and, dammit, oldwalkers get what they want.

But Nahiri is 100% in the wrong in dragging Innistrad into their feud. Millions, possibly billions (remember, there are confirmed other continents on Innistrad) of people totally unrelated to Sorin save by geographical proximity to his place of birth, are going to die because of something they had no hand in. Wanting him to suffer is natural, but good people don't give in to that urge when it means inflicting death and pain on innocent people.

>I literally do not give a shit what happens to any of these people anymore. Post-Time Spiral Magic lore is absolute garbage.
>I literally do not give a shit what happens to any of these people anymore. Post-Apocalypse Magic lore is absolute garbage.
>I literally do not give a shit what happens to any of these people anymore. Post-Brother's War Magic lore is absolute garbage.

Probably because the alarm rung.

Remember, Sorin only missed the first meeting because he'd accidentally blocked the signal. We have no indication that he ever intended to renege on the trio's deal. The mere fact that he got it just prior to the Zendikar block shows that he at the very least cared enough to fix whatever problem was interfering with the alarm.

Sorin deserves getting his dick kicked off for being such a fucking cunt, Nahiri deserves to get her shit pushed in for kicking a whole plane's dick off when she should have just thrown down with Sorin. Hopefully they beat the shit out of each other.
Liliana is gonna fight with the Superfriends, but be overwhelmed before Planeswoofer and the Cool Cathars show up and save their asses.
It'd also be nice to see Sorin/Nahiri get a look at what an actual function team looks like, for extra BTFO.

I wouldn't say she's in the right, but she's definitely correct in her scope. In her mind, the people of Zendikar that Nahiri protects are doomed because of Sorin's actions. Therefore, an eye for an eye dictates that the people of Innistrad that Sorin protects must be doomed by Nahiri's actions.
Their quality of being protected by Sorin therefore dictates the same fate to befall as the ones protected by Nahiri.

Zendikar's been marching towards the brink of destruction until recently. Ugin didn't swing by the first time the eldrazi broke out and he most certainly didn't the second time the lock broke (keeping in mind that he wasn't able to until well after the eldrazi were free) so as far as she's concerned he's probably dead.

I don't think anyone is arguing Nahiri's a goody two shoes did nothing wrong but she's just doing to Innistrad what she let them do to Zendikar.

Millions of her own people have probably died between the few minor Eldrazi breakouts and finally Rise of the Eldrazi. She's in full eye for an eye justice mode.

And all Sorin ever had to do was explain himself

If Nahiri's being a stubborn hardhead it's because she was taught by the king of stubborn hardheads

fuck me, post got deleted.

Long story short, it's not enough to make Sorin bleed. He has to suffer. Nahiri was locked away in the Helvault and in her absence Zendikar got assraped by Eldrazi. She holds Sorin culpable for Zendikar's devastation, and that means making him feel the pain of having his home torn apart and being unable to do a damn thing about it.

Making him snuff out Avacyn personally? Not enough.
Annihilating his (admittedly estranged) family? Not enough.
Subverting the church that helped to empower humanity enough that it wouldn't go extinct? Not enough.

Everything must be torn apart. And at the front of it all, an Eldrazi titan, a symbol of the responsibility he shunned.

"As Zendikar bled, so shall Innistrad.
As I have wept, so will Sorin."

>I wouldn't say she's in the right, but she's definitely correc
She' not, Zendikar died because she was incapable of communication.
She knew Sorin's personality full well, she knew he would dismiss her at first.
She decided to attack him, she decided to continue fighting him when he showed not to be well.
She got herself locked, could have got herself killed, but she will face no consequences because she is a woman.

If Nahiri was a man this would be a classic case of the scorpion and the frog. And everyone would facetiously blame korfag for getting-in-the-way-of-a-millenia-old-vampire. But tits override responsability and accountability granting you a horde of waifufags who are willing to forgive anything and kiss the dirt you walk on.

>Zendikar died because she was incapable of communication.
>She knew Sorin's personality full well, she knew he would dismiss her at first.
>She decided to attack him, she decided to continue fighting him when he showed not to be well.
This argument seems pretty hollow.
"She KNEW Sorin was an arrogant asshole! She should have just dealt with it!"

>But tits override responsability and accountability granting you a horde of waifufags
>waifufags

If Avacyn and her angels were a bunch of dudes instead of thigh high wearing titty monsters no one would be as angry about what's going on right now

Nigger please, oldwalkers are stubborn assholes no matter what primary sex characteristic they possess.

>Therefore, an eye for an eye dictates
>She's in full eye for an eye justice mode

This is the problem.

Eye for an eye is not a noble or correct modus. Especially when it pulls entirely innocent people into the mix. She is pretty evil in this exchange.

I'd say that the statement of her scope being correct is the opposite of the case. She's wrong because she's allowing the idea of scope enter into her concept of justice. Any sane concept of justice is not about matching the scope of a misdeed with another misdeed (or, indeed, a righteous deed - when a killer steals something, we don't give away something of equal value and consider the overall scales of life balanced by said act of charity) - it is about addressing the wrong.

>she's just doing to Innistrad what she let them do to Zendikar.
>what she let them do to Zendikar.
>she let them do
>she let them
>she

That's the problem people don't seem to be willing or able to understand.
She destroyed Zendikar, not Sorin, not Ugin, not even Ulamog.
She killed her plane when she attacked Sorin.

He didn't even dismiss her.

He said he couldn't do anything at that moment. She didn't even allow him to explain why.

>Eye for an eye is not a noble or correct modus
Morality is not objective, Kant.

>And all Sorin ever had to do was explain himself
Yeah, genocide a world because someone wasn't a morning person. Literal victim blaming, #triggered

I wonder if the other walkers will get hyper nervous whenever Nahiri visits their plane, answer very quickly and respectfully for fear she'll invent some slight and start another apocalypse.

Sorin did it when he locked her up for a thousand fucking years.

If he'd kicked her off Zendikar telling her never to return or even just killed her then and there, none of this would have happened.

It was being stuck in the Helvault for thousands of years surrounded by who the hell knows what demons that caused her to go full "I am going to burn his fucking house down" mode

And why should this creature not be destroyed like the rabid dog it is?
Sorin, Ugin, Liliana or Gideon better kill her and drag her corpse through the planes as a warning to not intentionally seek to destroy planes.

Why is it ok when Sorin acts like a selfish asshole, but it's not ok when Nahiri acts like a rules enforcing bitch?

It's literally both sides taking their color identities to an extreme. The only argument Sorin really has in his defense is that it's rude for someone to invite themselves into another's home and make demands, but those demands in a vacuum were quite valid; Sorin played a part in imprisoning the Eldrazi, he should follow through instead of weakening himself to empower a personal security system of his own design back home.

Liliana card.

clearly garruk needs to clean house

>Why is it ok when Sorin acts like a selfish asshole

Planes genocided:
Sorin: 0
Nahiri: 1

Any more questions?

Correct.

However, we have to frame our understanding of morality in a human context, otherwise it has no use to us.

Also get fucked Nietzsche, go cry some more about Lou Salomé.

If your boss is a senile asshole and forgot to sign your check you go talk it through even if he's busy and dismissing at first. You don't pick up a fucking chair, assault him and then blame the company for ending up in jail.

I'd still be angry about the werewolves, geists and vampires. Also tricorns.

Sorin promised Nahiri he'd be there if she needed him

She sounds the alarm he doesn't show up

When she gets there to ask what's up he's in the middle of creating his own planar defense system that conveniently blocks out her distress signal

Sorin is a known hyper selfish asshole. Dumping the Eldrazi off on her then never coming back is within character.

I'd be suspicious as fuck too

does it come in human language?

>If your boss spent all night installing new locks in the office doors and forgot to inform his employees that salaries are getting slashed due to budget cuts, you go talk it through even if he's busy and dismissing at first. You don't pick up a fucking chair, assault him and then blame the company for ending up in jail.

Tight budget.

It's not.

Both acted like pricks. Nahiri is wrong for the very obvious reason that she is intentionally killing billions of innocent people over a misunderstanding.

Ultimately, I can only judge either planeswalker on their eventual actions. Sorin, after sealing away Nahiri, fixed whatever problem was interfering with Zendikar's alarm system and made a habit of returning to the plane to prevent it from being eaten inside out. Nahiri, after escaping, decided to annihilate an entire world in rage. No matter how pigheaded either of them was, Sorin is still the moral superior, which is pretty ironic since he is literally wizards no sense of right and wrong.

She's still responsible for Zendikar's demise and since that is the crux of her vengeance she is responsible for Innistrad's demise as well.

You don't play russian roullete when you know the cure for cancer and haven't passed the knowledge. You don't attack an misantropic oldwalker who just created a terminator when your plane depends entirely on your safety.

Nahiri did EVERYTHING wrong. She does not desserve sympathy, she does not desserve vengeance, all she desserves is hatred, scorn and a painful death.

>Billions

Look, Innistrad is what, 1600s/1700s?

There weren't even a billion people on Earth until the 1900s, and we weren't constantly being hunted by fucking werewolves and shit.

Chill on the "muh holocaust" here, Emrakul's only just emerged and the Justice League is on the way. Casualties are probably going to be in the thousands and that's about it

If the Jacetice League knows Nahiri summoned Emrakul and don't kill or imprison her, they will be advocating genocide and giving up any semblance of justice or planar protection.

Question here:

What happens when a corrupted thing dies? Can Liliana raise them to fight back? If so, Liliana/Gisa have a pretty big advantage.

I just assume it has lots of people on it, it's an entire dimension, right?

Either way, the eventual casualties are irrelevant, as Nahiri is attempting to kill everything and everyone.

Eh, she's somewhat sympathetic, even if I agree that she partially (partially, not fully) brought a lot of what has happened on herself. In an ideal world, the superfriends and co would get her to reverse everything and sit down for a merry hallowthanksmas. This, of course, will not happen.

Actually sorin talks as if he has at least a dozen under his belt

A misunderstanding Sorin had no interest in rectifying.

And his half-assed idea of making sure Zendikar doesn't explode in Eldrazi goo led to Nissa doing a dumb and unleashing the Eldrazi anyway at which point he gave up and bounced.

Fucker like him couldn't even bother to let Nahiri out to try and patch things up, he just wrote Zendikar off as a lost cause.

Feuds between oldwalkers, you don't want to be caught up in them.

It's not ok, but Sorin and Sorin supporters aren't claiming there is justice, fairness, or balance in genocide and ruining a fan-favorite setting.

No matter what happens after she summoned Emraku, keeping Nahiri around and unpunished, or worse, letting her into the Jacetice Leage, would be equal to allowing Green Goblin to be an avenger after Dark Reign or letting Darth Vader survive and become a jedi again after RotJ.

There are things you can't walk back on and it's not Sorin who is commiting those things with two years of preparation.

>Either way, the eventual casualties are irrelevant, as Nahiri is attempting to kill everything and everyone.

You know she said "Innistrad will bleed" not "Innistrad will fucking die", for all we know her end game is letting Sorin/Innistrad suffer a bit before locking Emrakul away in the moon so Innistrad can suffer having one of those things locked up on it just like Zendikar did. As much as she hates Sorin now I can't see her just willfully letting Eldrazi roam free after she's done.

>ruining a fan-favorite setting

If Innistrad is the horror movie plane then all Emrakul's really done is introduce it to The Thing. It's not like Zendikar style Eldrazi monsters are roaming around, they're pretty on theme for the plane.

The key art is cute as fuck and we get this creepy CGI shit instead.

Anyway translating from monkey spanish
>Put a 2/2 black zombie in the battlefield, you lose 1 life.
>Search target player's graveyard for a creature card and put it in their graveyard, that player shuffles.
>Get an emblem with "sacrifice a creature, target creature gets -2/-2 ueot"

A slightly better Zombie Infestation.

In what conceivable way has Sorin acted like a villain in this block?

If anything Eldrazi made Innistrad better, whereas they made Zendikar worse.

>A misunderstanding Sorin had no interest in rectifying.

He did actually try to explain why he couldn't leave at that moment. And he did indeed tell her why he didn't answer the summons (rather, he said it aloud, as he had just figured it out himself). But I was referring more to Nahiri's later misunderstanding that all of Zendikar is dead.

>And his half-assed idea of making sure Zendikar doesn't explode in Eldrazi goo led to Nissa doing a dumb and unleashing the Eldrazi anyway at which point he gave up and bounced

Eh, he tried.

>Fucker like him couldn't even bother to let Nahiri out to try and patch things up

If he could open up the Helvault whenever he wanted, he would have done so when Avacyn was trapped in there.

the full art of this card was painted, not "CGI"..

it always looks that way because its a massive painting sized down to card size.

Ulamog, for instance, was entirely paint.

>The Thing
Oh fug. I want Drazi'd Thing In The Ice. With Meld.

Yeah. That's fucking broken as a 2 mana walker. Clearly designed by someone who has no idea how to make low cost walkers

He's just being overly paranoid about SJW shit.

I'm one of the other anons that believes Nahiri to be just as wrong as Sorin, if not moreso for her later actions, but this other guy is just preemptively reacting to WotC pandering as though it's already happened.

Maybe it will. But there's been no sign of it yet.

>>Search target player's graveyard for a creature card and put it in their graveyard, that player shuffles.
dude what

Not to mention it makes 2/2s at TWO FUCKING MANA
And the ult is fucking pathetic.

Soring goes to explain why he can't go right in that instant and the bitch attacks him with stalagmites.
Fuck Nahiri, she did everything wrong.

Source? It's a little too coincidental that we get the art in an article, then the card magically gets leaked. It's already happened when the name got leaked.

reanimation or shit like Gravecrawler

Read that sentence again

>You know she said "Innistrad will bleed" not "Innistrad will fucking die", for all we know her end game is letting Sorin/Innistrad suffer a bit before locking Emrakul away in the moon so Innistrad can suffer having one of those things locked up on it just like Zendikar did. As much as she hates Sorin now I can't see her just willfully letting Eldrazi roam free after she's done.
So you think her plan is to enable Emrakul to destroy the planet's defenses, then singlehandedly lock away the threat which originally took three oldwalkers to deal with?

It's a mistranslation. The -2 is a targeted, creature only Entomb