Flames of War General - "Who let Ivan drive?" Edition

Hello and welcome to the "I'm playing West Germans but am still painting 30+ models club."

I don't think you necessisarily need all 3 artillery options. I'd probably drop the M109s for 2 fliegerfausts that can dig in with your infantry and 2 more gepards. Gepards are just so nasty against anything that isn't a MBT. I think tacking on some more AA will also help prevent soviets from shoving hinds down your throat.

>Müller... Müller?

What is this? Some movie where a German conpany commander goes AWOL when the russians break through?

I do get the references though the movie was before my time. Being a nerd, I spent most of my middle and highscool years watching movies from the 70s and 80s instead of the stuff that was coming out.

>Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis

It's a combination of a line from Ferris Bueller's Day Off combined with the name of the West German starter set Kampfgruppe Müller which would be pronounced the same way.

Should I have went with "Hëavy Mëtäl Ümlaüts" instead?

All the best stuff was made in the 70s and 80s.

Star Wars, Ghostbusters, Back to the Future, ET, Indiana Jones, Terminator, Rambo, Knight Rider, MacGuyver, Red Dawn, and far too many other things to even try and list.

I don't think you need all 3 artillery options.

Perhaps keep 2 of the 3 and use the points on additional Gepards or Rolands.

Other than that though, it looks like a solid list.

How about this:

first Kompanie:
1x Leopard 2 11
3x Leopard 2 33
1x full Marder Zug 7
2x Luchs 1
2x Luchs 1
2x Gepard 5
6x M113 Mörser 6

second Kompanie
1x Marder HQ 1
1x full Marder Zug 7
1x full Marder Zug 7
3x Jaguar1 6
2x Gepard 5

support
2x Redeye team 2
4x LARS + Mines 7
1x OP 1

100 points.

Pls rate and comment again.

I think it looks good. Splitting the Gepards will let you cover more area, but you risk having one run off when the other is hit. But German's have higher morale, and it's a risk worth taking IMO.

Germans are the one nation in TY that I don't have any hands-on experience with, but I'd say it looks pretty good on paper.

Are there any lists to do the 10th armoured in the opening parts of Bastogne? I don't think I've ever seen the 10th.

but it's from one of the greatest films of all time.

I forget which Armored Divisions are covered with n the Bulge books, but there are tank options available to the defenders of Bastogne.

...

Super 6th are left out, which I think is malarky, since they were the ones to break through to Bastogne.

Finnish BMP-2? Did they get those?

Is there any reason to waste points on aircrafts?

Especially when playing against Germany? Hind and SU-25 look just like a complete waste of points to me.

The only aircraft that seems to be able to not get shot down immediately seems to be the A-10 due to its 36" range maverick and 3+ save.

Yeah, Germany seem to be a no-fly-zone at present, they pretty much totally hose down soviet air. You can try and kill all the german AA before you bring your aircraft on, I guess, unless you're playing the paras and your list's totally aircraft.

It's pretty screwy, since air is really good against the americans and totally fucked against the germans. I still think there's a problem with list rock-paper-scissors in TY.

In my most recent game, my Hinds withstood several turns of Vulcan fire before they went down.

The problem was that I was pretty much always in range of the Vulcans when I wanted the Hinds to do any useful hunting.

i kek'd

gonna listen to the 'cast. that was the one i missed!

I think air is fine to bring, just don't go overboard. having a unit that can reach out to any place on the board makes your opponent play more cautiously with their air assets and artillery. As far as destroying things with airpower, I think it will take patience. You can peck at weak spots, especially with strike craft (which doesn't stay on the board for the enemy to roll up and blast it on their turn). As the game progresses, aa units will be destroyed and air becomes more valuable. Hinds are a bit more vunerable to AA, but they are always avaliable on the board if you don't want to trust your support to a 4+ roll. Every now and then there may be a situation where you have to throw your air at a bad place and hope to get lucky.

Honestly I am more unsure about NATO choppers. My list has 4 BO105s. I am planning to use them as an ambush, relying on concealed/gtg as cover until I find a good target to shoot. They are expensive, but for a pure Aufklärungs unit, that was my best AT option, since I can't take Jaguars. Even still I am counting on spearhead deployment to get AA and Luchs over to support them. I'll make a post once I actually get a proper game in with them, and we'll see if they were just a big waste of points.

Oops. Posted an older pic

Sure thing. Go with 7th from BGG (or the new Bulge compilation that's about to come out), for Trained US tanks. Sprinkle to taste.

Officially, 4th and 7th in BGG, though it's really "veteran and trained generic US divisions, with a few specific warriors". Not even any particular special equipment that wasn't widely spread around (unlike B@R).

Wait, what? Aren't you thinking about the 4th? (Which are in BGG; btw)

You don't move them around, just fly them near a building or something in the middle of a board and then fire missiles at anything that comes within the 40" range or whatever insane range they have regardless of where they are on the board. My experience of NATO helis has been that they're insanely difficult to remove for the level of havoc they can wreak with essentially unrestricted fire on anything on the board.

>nato helicopters
man they look really small and neat compared to the fucking mammoths the soviets get

Yeah, I have that part down. I think it will just take some practice figuring out where to set them up. They are just a large investment, so I feel some pressure to use them well.

Trying to turn the Rommel's Wolves box into something. r8?

German Panzer Kampfgruppe (Trained Division)
Tank Company, from Desperate Measures, page 68

Compulsory Panzer Kampfguppe HQ (Trained) (p.69) - CinC Panther G, 2iC Panther G (290 pts)

Compulsory Panzer Platoon (Trained) (p.70) - Command Panther G, 2x Panther G (430 pts)

Compulsory Panzer Platoon (Trained) (p.70) - Command Panther G, 2x Panther G (430 pts)

Panzer Platoon (Trained) (p.70) - Command Jagdpanther, Jagdpanther (360 pts)

Heavy Panzerspah Platoon (Trained) (p.85) - Command Sd Kfz 234/1, Sd Kfz 234/4 (Pak40) (95 pts)

Rocket Launcher Battery (Trained) (p.91) - Command SMG, Observer Rifle, Kubelwagen, 3x 15cm NW41 rocket launcher (85 pts)

Luftwaffe Light Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon (p.93) - Command SMG, 3x 2cm Flakvierling 38 gun (60 pts)

1750 Points, 6 Platoons

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Im thinking of gettting into Flames of war, anyone know where to start? im thinking ww2, i looked through the books a bit and i wonder where can i find the stats of everything? for example the range, armor and so on.

Those are generally in the back of the sections for the respective nations, under "_______ Arsenal".

Any nation or playstyle you're particularly interested in?

I don't mean to sound like a hispter but i want to play a somewhat less common faction so that i can get more games, in other words if there is alot of germans then i rather play an allied faction.

Im thinking maybe early war brits

>Go to FLGS to buy my first Flames thing, some Britbong Shermans to try out and see if I like painting at the scale, and because they seem like a solid starter list
>FLGS's distributor can't get anything but the FoW books right now for some reason

So that sucked.

I suppose Open Fire and that Sherman box would set me up well for a Market Garden Armored Squadron list right?

Playing an uncommon faction I can understand, but you don't want to play an uncommon period. Find out what era your local group plays.

Alright makes sense, already thought about that. Illl look around

Okay so it seems like there is no community where i live :/ Maybe i can start one who knows, but there is no shop here...

Yep, thats exactly what the Open fire list is built on. You get 8 tanks in Open fire so an additional box of tanks would give you all you ever need.

Thanks. Spending about 150 bucks for a good army list is way less than I expected.

why are those brits wearing modern camo in a Firefly?

and they have A NIGGER?

Because Britain is a different country and kettle of Fish to Yankistan.

The Camo though is probably because Garth Ennis is fucker.

There is an outdated player finder on the FoW website. Other websites like dakkadakka have player finders. Also, I would just start by looking up gaming stores in your town, then 30 minutes away, then an hour away. Hopefully you find the place.

The other option is strong-arming some friends into it, or building both sides of whatever period interests you.

you'll need a bit more, mainly some sort of smoke provider and ideally some sort of AA/recon. But these will be relatively low purchases comparitively.

I'm not really familiar with brits, I just know 13 Shermans (which can also be made as Fireflies) will cover all your tank and AT needs. Fireflies can tackle just about anything but a King Tiger from the front so your real challenge will be digging up infantry. German infantry are some of the toughest SOB's in the game when it comes to fighting tanks. Panzerfausts will murder your tanks if you don't soften them up before hand

Regards: An Axis player.

Post the area you live in (don't need your address, city works fine) you'd be amazed how many people view these threads.

I met C3K and Bartosz through these threads. Would've never met them otherwise.

For example, I live in Western KY, Murray specifically. Been looking to start up a group around here. please god someone please. I don't want to have to drive to Nashville just to get a game or tri-er I mean invite C3K to come down

This makes me question why there isn't a unified organisation of Wargames clubs across the states.

>you'll need a bit more, mainly some sort of smoke provider and ideally some sort of AA/recon
Luckily Zvezda do Daimler Dingoes and PSC are releasing 25pndrs, so getting cheap options for both of those is quite feasible.

It's hard enough to organize a few people to go out for dinner, let alone groups of wargamers nation-wide.

several attempts have been made, they all fail.

The problem is so multifaceted its hard to find a primary thing to blame, but ultimately it boils down to Veeky Forums types are really goddamn stubborn and easily get stuck in their ways. I'm amazed Facebook groups even became a thing for local areas in the USA, and even starting those to organize a community is like pulling teeth. Dakka's player finder in my opinion is the best, but you have to check dakka for it to work, and you have to actively update your profile (your spot on the map disappears after a while of inactivity) It also has a low adoption rate, and cities that should have hundreds of gamers have like 5 listed.

Not to mention that people never pick sensible group names. For example, we have a decent sized X-Wing community. Is it's group called

>Murray Kentucky X-Wing
>Western Kentucky X-Wing
>Screaming Wookie Squadron (4th result that pops up)

Yeah, you can imagine how much fun that was to find. And almost nobody checks it.

I started a 40k group for some locals and only by constantly posting WIPs am I getting its bizarre Facebook priority to start to build up. Starting historicals is going to be an even bigger nightmare, because of the well known aversion to the internet most grogs have.

About the only reason I even found other players was by hanging out at the store for a good 20 hours a week for about a month and just talking to people nonstop to get leads. That netted me one historical player and 5 40k players interested in a Heralds of Ruin Kill team league.

I swear to god building a community is more work than my damn biology degree.

It's been that way everywhere I go to a degree. Lexington KY is organized in some respects (they have an excellent X-Wing group that has something like 60 members if I remember right) and some not so great (their 40k groups tend to be pretty territorial)

Sadly I doubt thatll ever change

I just took a closer look at the Jaguar Jagdpanzer.

Are three Jaguar 1 really worth the one point extra for +2 AT?

No, but mostly because you lose thermals and they're pretty much an autowin against soviets if you can get a night attack with them.

It's amazing how little gaming stores in the US are using technology. At best the FB page for our FLGS and our historicals group is using the equivalent of 2008 Facebook technology. When I have traveled around the US looking for some time to kill, it's been hell trying to find other FLGS much less ones that have flames. Seems that there are a few successful stores in big cities and college towns, but it's hard to find them. Searching google maps for gaming store can have mixed results, and sometimes places you find aren't even open.

Numerous soldiers of West Indian extraction - or "niggers" as you so vitroically describe them - served in the British armed forces during WW2. Given the absence of segretation they served in all roles among their more fair-skinned comrades.

The "modern camo" is in fact a sloppily rendered version of the standard splinter camouflage pattern available on the late war overalls.

>It's hard enough to organize a few people to go out for dinner,

Yup. How does three weeks from Tuesday sound? Ok. Now we need to pick a restaurant. And what time we're meeting there.

>Screaming Wookie Squadron

And they don't even spell it right. TWO "E"s. WOOKIEE. Not that hard.

>Starting historicals is going to be an even bigger nightmare, because of the well known aversion to the internet most grogs have.

And the aversion to historicals most sci-fi and fantasy gamers have.

>I swear to god building a community is more work than my damn biology degree.

I feel your pain. I can't tell you how frustrating it was trying to rebuild the Flames of War group and trying to grow the Team Yankee group here on Long Island.

The funny thing is 5 years ago you could easily get 30+ people to a Late War or Mid-War tournament, and there were monthly FoW nights out at this one store, Brothers Grim.

Now, there's nothing but the chirping of the crickets.

And a group 70 miles and 2 major toll bridges away...

i will second this.
i live in an area with about 100+ miniature gamers, yet because of american divisiveness (i'll openly say it: there is nothing UNITED about the united states at all) differences in opinion, and general cliquishness, we are lucky to have about 3 clubs here composed of about 5-9 players each. and 2 of them get along well enough so that we could run mega games.

if we had the ability to unite the historical gamers alone, we'd have a union of about 30+ men who could arrange and run games, likely multiple times a month. so far we get a few, mostly for private invite.

40K players could also have a league of about 30-40, if not 50+ if they dragged in all the unseen gamers.

same goes X-wing. X-wing is closest to having that union, but they suffer from tourney mindset and hearsay rumor-mongering. another american fault.

america doesn't have great gamer networking because we are divisive, self-righteous, and undiplomatic as fuck.
this is funny because the darkest skin i've ever seen comes from Indian immigrants. Black american's aren't black

>same goes X-wing. X-wing is closest to having that union

There are two X-Wing groups on Long Island.

The one I often talk about on the podcast with the weird mission types or the always changing build restrictions that discourages hard-core tourneyfagotry.

And the hard-core tourneyfags who think playing anything other than the top three net-lists is a waste of time.

Anyone got good ideas on how to store helicopter rotorblades i fear snapping them?

Are Churchill Crocodiles worth it? They seem incredibly expensive for a one-use flamethrower, when you could get a similar effect from a much cheaper Wasp squadron. Granted you still have the benefit of an armour 13 heavy with an alright main gun... but the expense

...

>Are Churchill Crocodiles worth it? They seem incredibly expensive for a one-use flamethrower, when you could get a similar effect from a much cheaper Wasp squadron. Granted you still have the benefit of an armour 13 heavy with an alright main gun... but the expense
3 Wasps:
>95-125 points depending on veterancy and motivation
>9 shots, 4" range, able to fire 3 at a time
>Very vulnerable to enemy fire with 0/0/0 armor and re-rolling failed firepower tests
>Moves 12" cross-country, 18" on roads, 4" in terrain
>Have to get within charge distance to flame, no defensive weaponry
>Useless after flaming

2 Crocodiles:
>265-340 points depending on veterancy and motivation
>10 shots, 6" range, able to fire 5 at a time
>Immune to most enemy fire with 13/7/1 armor, protected ammo, and the enemy doesn't get re-rolled FP tests
>Moves 8" everywhere, has wide tracks for terrain
>Can flame after starting turn outside enemy charge distance, have MG and main gun to use in defensive fire
>Can still be useful after flaming with AT 10 FP 3+ main gun and co-ax MG.
>Can DFS enemy during advance or turn after burning a hole in infantry line

Basically, you get the Crocs when you'd want a tank unit that can also flame or you need to break through a gunline, while you get the wasps if you've already got plenty of tanks and just need some way to clear out a pocket of infantry.

Magnetize them, so they can be removed.

Then treat them like fine china.

And they'll probably still snap anyway.

you may want a large circular foam to hold them like tortillas. US rotors are thinner, i assume you speak of the massive Hind rotors?

kek

Id buy one of these desu, then some cut some thin foam sheets to fit and layer them like foam-rotor-foam-rotor-foam-rotor.
It'd be a bit bulky but it should keep them in good nick.

Not a bad idea.

...

...

Ded thread

You're using a dead BMP, of course it's dead.

i think one of the reasons LotR warhammer failed is because of the thinness of those damn pikes. They'd always snap, veteran players would always have at least a quarter of their pikemen with pikes that snapped so often there was no more chance for repair.

Guards or Red Army?

Soviet Tankovy (Guards)
Tank Company, from Desperate Measures, page 8

Compulsory Tankovy Batalon HQ (Guards) (p.9) - CinC T-34/85 obr 1944 (80 pts)

Compulsory Tankovy Company (Guards) (p.9) - Command T-34/85 obr 1944, 7x T-34/85 obr 1944 (555 pts)

Compulsory Tankovy Company (Guards) (p.9) - Command T-34/85 obr 1944, 7x T-34/85 obr 1944 (555 pts)

Anti-aircraft Platoon (Guards) (p.11) - Command DShK AA truck, 2x DShK AA truck (60 pts)

Tank Destruction Company (Guards) (p.26) - Command Rifle, 2x 100mm BS-3 gun (145 pts)

Spetsnaz Platoon (p.27) - Command SMG, 4x SMG, 3x Captured Sd Kfz 251 half-track (170 pts)
- Replace Command SMG with Command Panzerfaust SMG (10 pts)

160mm Mortar Company (Guards) (p.18) - Command Rifle, 4x 160mm obr 1943 mortar (130 pts)
- Observer Rifle (15 pts)

1720 Points, 6 Platoons

Compulsory Tankovy Batalon HQ (Regular) (p.9) - CinC T-34/85 obr 1944 (70 pts)
- Bedspring armour (5 pts)

Compulsory Tankovy Company (Regular) (p.9) - Command T-34/85 obr 1944, 9x T-34/85 obr 1944 (570 pts)
- 10x Bedspring armour (50 pts)

Compulsory Tankovy Company (Regular) (p.9) - Command T-34/85 obr 1944, 9x T-34/85 obr 1944 (570 pts)

Anti-aircraft Platoon (Regular) (p.11) - Command DShK AA truck, 2x DShK AA truck (55 pts)

Spetsnaz Platoon (p.27) - Command SMG, 4x SMG, 3x Captured Sd Kfz 251 half-track (170 pts)

Tank Destruction Company (Regular) (p.26) - Command Rifle, 2x 100mm BS-3 gun (130 pts)

160mm Mortar Company (Guards) (p.18) - Command Rifle, 4x 160mm obr 1943 mortar (130 pts)
- Observer Rifle (15 pts)

1750 Points, 6 Platoons

So, I finally received my copy of the Team Yankee novel reprint the other day.

It's surprisingly much better than I was expecting.

Any other recommendations for good Cold War Gone Hot novels?

Red Storm Rising is considered a Classic.

Personally, I would go with Guards. And by Stalin's moustache, replace the 2 BS-3s with something that is actually useful.

Red Phoenix by Mr Harpoon
Trinity's Child by William Prochnau (By Dawn's Early Light was based on this)
Red Army by Ralph Peters
I'm guessing you've read all the Clancy

They're cheap and they give me something with AT 16, I can't really get anything else that does that.

I used to think they were worth taking, too. But ROF 1 is killer, and being immobile is a pain, especially with an armored list. I would bring guards, remove the BS-3, knock a few of the 85s down to 76s and bring something like ISU-122s. Just my preference though. The list looks fine as is, except you likely won't get any use out of the BS-3s unless you are attacking. ZIS-2s are much better because at the very least, you can roll them up and volley fire.

>Luch at all these Fuching Wheels. Finished all the assembly for my wheeled vehicles for my Best Germans. This is what 18 points and 124 fiddly wheels look like.

Honestly, if I were to encounter those, I would either ignore their very existence (because a total of 2 shots won't kill much), toss some smoke at them, surprise assault them with light tanks from the flank (if they're unsupported) or simply go the other way 'round.

The main issue is that /76s are pretty much useless by LW, and where they do have a use they need to be their own platoon to get some use out of fast/wide tracks.

>/76s pretty useless by late war

I am not saying you should trade in all your 85s for 76s, but 76s are not useless. I think putting 2-3 in a company of 8 is a good way to save points. Assuming you will take fire before engaging the enemy close enough to do any real damage, you can put hits on the cheaper 76s, and force your enemy to try to guntank them over to the 85s. For many tanks besides the big cats, AT 9 can be effective against side armor. Both variants perform exactly the same against infantry.

Yeah, but side armour is your best-case and even then most tanks are getting saves. Against front armour your might as well not bother. "Ablative screen" is about as good as it gets and with FA 6 that's not going to last long, if they don't just use positioning nonsense to isolate the /76s.

having played with them, the problems they have are manifold:

they are ROF1 AT16. This means they're rubbish against KT's and JP's, and only kill at most one tank per three turns against lighter things, and you cannot ever flank with them.

Secondly, they are immobile. This means you cannot ambush them, and your opponent can very easily drive around you losing one or two tanks on average, then you can't shoot.

Thirdly, with only 2 guns, it's giving your opponent a free platoon kill at trained. this means you'll only ever win 5-2 or 4-3, and losing you'll never lose 4-3.But even outside of tournaments, forcing you into Batallion Morale checks sooner sucks major ass- Especially since it means your enemy can ignore your T34's and just kill all the soft targets and start forcing morale.

>they are ROF1 AT16. This means they're rubbish against KT's and JP's,
To be fair to the BS-3 gun, KTs are a almost universal problem especially since there is virtually no gun in the game that can effectively remove them from the front. This wouldn't have been a problem except that RT and FT KTs OMG exist.

>That camo
Dude, no.

panzerbaer.de/colours/a_relaunch/bw_spaehpz_luchs.htm

panzerbaer.de/colours/a_relaunch/bw_tpz1_fuchs.htm

Look at those links and study it. Its not just brown and black patches on green.

The fact they actually can knock out those things is something in their favour, though. But yeah, KT-spam lists are the problem there. Soviet AT sucks in general against big cats given how there's no provision for using the big guns to flatten them.

>panzerbaer.de/colours/a_relaunch/bw_spaehpz_luchs.htm

Can't guarantee I am going to repaint the stuff I already have painted,but I'll study the camo for the future. Do you have anything for the Leo 1s or is it pretty much the same?

I still feel like all bunker busters, maybe even breakthrough guns, should work like a direct-fire artillery bombardment, i.e. when they hit they hit top armour. It'd allow things like the ISUs and the 203mm gun to actually do something to KTs, especially given that historically they were infamous for pulping the crews and crushing the plates off tigers and panthers.

I think the Team Yankee home page has camouflage painting guides for both the West Germans and the US.

Although the US guide is for MERDC, not NATO 3-Color.

Okay, I found it. I guess the main thing I need to do is add more worn rubber to connect my splotches and then reduce the amount of woodland brown I use.

>I need muh AT 16
No, you really don't need to be wasting points on it. Get something better, like ISU-122s if you absolutely need some kind of slow-firing, high AT gun.

"Sword Point" also by Harold Coyle, is pretty good, better than TY IMO.

"Chieftains" is great, quite realistic and sobering story.

>light tanks from the flank
Hell, you can fucking murder an entire platoon of BS-3s with armored cars! I did just that with soviet BA-64s. Hit them in the side on the initial assault move, and they can't defensive fire. After that, consolidate around and hit the rest. They can't shoot when in assault, so all they can do is hope their 1 lousy infantry attack does something. Never saw that player run them again, after that.

Wide Tracks is what you need to worry about. Fast Tank amounts to jack shit.

So I'm new to the game and picked up Market Garden... are naval bombardments any good compared to just fielding regular gun batteries? The HMS Warspite is a cool as fuck ship, and the statline on its bombardment seems silly powerful. Is there anything I'm missing?

It is so silly powerful it got nerfed.

They're still pretty good, being a solid set of guns with a free AOP your opponent can't remove.

The issue is things like Panthers, Church VIIs, Pershings, etc. The AT 12 on the T-34-85 starts getting really anemic when you run into those "light heavies".