/btg/ Battletech General: Unseen Edition

Who?

1% might seem a tad low, yes, but the MoC literally has had shit for industry for centuries while also dealing with attrition and a lack of sources for assaults in that era. 3% would be generous, and that would include half-working mechs minus some weapons and actuators.

Critting an ICE engine and watching it go up in flames would be great fun. I imagine it would be like watching a diesel locomotive engine go runaway and then light up the fuel tank.

>I think they'd have a bigger heavy-mech proportion than average, as a result
I suspect their weight distribution would look a bit like kurita's; lots of bugs and thuds, not as many mediums, since they don't build any but the griffin till later on

Let's add machine gun ammo with it
In fact, what's the explodiest you could equip a mech/vehicle with?

Whether it's 1% or 10%, it doesn't change NEA's point that there ISN'T a good iconic MOC assault mech. The faction doesn't have enough assaults to have one in the first place, whether there's 120 assaults or 12 assaults.

With that said, if they really do only have 1% assault mechs, that means there really are only 12 assaults in the whole faction. Since there's 12 available assault mechs, that means there's only 1 of each of them at most, and the MUL doesn't count mechs that are unique in a faction. So by definition, there must be more than 12 assault mechs, and the percentage must be more than 1%. So you're still objectively wrong.

>5% is low enough that everything works and the MOC is still blatantly a lightweight force. Stop trying to shit on them more than they already are.

Long Tom and machine gun ammunition?

Make a big ol' mushroom cloud out of your mech.

MG ammo really shouldn't do as much damage as it does. Maybe 1/4th only because the heat from the fire is contained in the bin inside the mech.

youtu.be/3SlOXowwC4c You can hear an occasional large bang from what I'm guessing is some .40in+ rifle round but you can stand within a few meters of it in turnout gear and not have an issue.

Propellant from a main gun burning off in a tank will cook everything inside in seconds and if equipped with an autoloader carousel in the turret can blow itself clean off.

youtube.com/watch?v=E1VWPOpYbQI

You could empty out a ton of MG ammo and just fill the inside of a T72 with gunpowder and I don't think you could get the same result.

>Likewise the TC never built the Rommel/Patton, only imported it after Katrina Steiner-Davion took over the Lyran Alliance.
I think they knocked it off some time in the 60s or 70s, IIRC. The OA and MoC also did so around that era, again IIRC

Battledroids MG ammo. 1000 rounds a ton with the same damage potential. So imagine a BFFL Drone Bomb with that. 20000 damage at ground zero.

...

STANDING

[EXPLODING PURPLE BURD NOISES]

Not according to HB: MPS or Objectives: Periphery.

huh, coulda sworn it was in objectives:periphery. I'm probably just being confused by RATs and inaccurate statements on the OF again

Witness me!

youtube.com/watch?v=7y9jLgqFpik

>confused by RATs
Didn't get the memo that there's been a 180 and they're now supposed to be 0% representative of what a faction has?

They're a suggestion and not a definitive source. The only definitive source for what a faction has access to is the MUL.

Different user here, but you know, I've always wondered how exactly it is decided what goes on a given faction's MUL and what doesn't

I blew up a vehicle (an autocannon carrier of some sort, don't remember which and don't have the screencap handy) up with a 1-point LRM TAC for 1085 damage. Haven't had a bigger number in all the bloody years I've played BT, either on tabletop or in Megamek.

>They're a suggestion and not a definitive source

I've wondered that myself.

In 3145 alone I've read of factions using things that should no longer be in their military according to the tables.

I'm not sure if that means they stopped using it or if they only put a sample of what the faction would have access to for the sake of not having to use anything over a D20.

Found it.

Some of it is just editorial-level derping like not including newer designs from that era's TRs because of the order things were written in.

Some are pure fucktardedness, like how the Legions of Vega in the 50s and 60s can't generate No-Dachis despite being the primary users.

Then there's problems of balance between factions. If a Drac, Capellan, or FWL player is rolling on their A-grade table there's a reasonable degree of similarity overall with tech and design quality, but the A-grade table for those factions is roughly as good as the D and F grade tables for the Suns or the B/C-grade tables for the Lyrans. So good luck with that.

>Some are pure fucktardedness, like how the Legions of Vega in the 50s and 60s can't generate No-Dachis despite being the primary users.

Odd.

I disintinctly recall there being one of those in the Dark Age novels.

It was used by the Combine commander Katana Stromark was fighting.

>Then there's problems of balance between factions.

For the original FMs and FM:U, any way. Xotl's stuff for 3085+ is a lot more reasonable.

And since I forgot, some of it is limited slots on what is usually a 2D6 table. Some RATs are obviously weighted to produce a force that looks like what a faction of that period is supposed to be using in terms of statistical likelihood of generating particular designs, other tables appear to throw that out the window in favour of generating forces that are statistically likely to be better than anyone else's.

Even beyond faction balance, sometimes RATs are internally fuckey; take FMMR as an example; the B-rated assault RAT is pretty much 100% better than the A RAT, and the same thing is true, albeit less so for the heavy mechs

>I disintinctly recall there being one of those in the Dark Age novels.
>It was used by the Combine commander Katana Stromark was fighting.

That was the actual Warlord of Benjamin. He could have driven anything he wanted.

So what happened with this thing?

The guy who was going to make it stopped making minis.

>tfw MechEngineer quest will never be finished
>tfw never see the fruition of the Phobos

on the topic of MoC assaults, stalkers and iconic variants, here's a periphery general stalker variant that I've had sitting around for a while.

Nscaler had this all modeled, printed, and ready to cast. Then he shelved it temporarily to work on my Salamander mech, which went terribly, sunk his reputation and motivation. He also went through some tough times, losing his previous job and getting sick.
I'll take some of the blame for ruining minis as a hobby for him.

Wipe the sand out of your vagina, babe. I wasn't debating the "iconic" mech point in any case. I'm not objectively wrong about shit, so get build a bridge and get over it; periphery states were shit in 3025. Deal with it.

...

>periphery states were shit in 3025.

>samefagging image macros and ignoring points of discussion

I forgot I was on /btg/, my bad

Let's meme about what faction is most evil and why Clantech sucks. That'll be more ebin, right?

>faction shitposting
>points of discussion

How about we fuck off with the trolling and do a design challenge?
Let's do something different this time.
We've done plenty "design mechs for mercs" challenges before, so how about we design some non-mech (tanks, BA, ASF, DropShips, JumpShips, Warships, small craft, conventional infantry platoons, whatever) units meant for the mercs market?

this pic makes me sad

How about SecurityMechs, following all treaty restrictions? Roll 1d6 to see your weight class:
1 - Light (10-15 tons)
2,3 - Medium (20-25 tons)
4,5 - Heavy (30-35 tons)
6 - Corporate security (10-50 tons)

Treaty Restrictions: No ranged weapons over 2 tons*, no energy flamers, A/B/M-Pods, VSPLs, or Rocket Launchers.

*The Battlemech Taser is allowed despite being heavier. Corporate SecurityMechs may have weapons up to 9 tons in weight.

That looks cool.

My favorite mechs for riot duty were always the bugs. A Stinger with a bin of rubber rounds is tops for the job plus has the ML for heavy duty work. A wasp with tear gas rounds loaded is a good partner too.

And before people forget: These are Industrialmechs with weapons. Not Battlemech chassis. Design appropriately.

>mfw almost all securitymech ideas I've ever had violate these rules in one way or another

What did it look like?

He posted it. It was just based on the later version concept art instead of the original.

So, putting together my first lance. No one I play with minds which tech era we play in, nor cares about battle values.

I'm thinking of fielding 2 Crabs (CRB-45) and 2 King Crabs (KCG-08). I also thought about putting a Scorpion of some sort in there but was having a hard time deciding. I like SCP-12C but the NARC missing beacon would be worthless.

The Scorpion has iNARC which can fire other pods, like Nemesis, Haywire, or Explosive. That said it's a pretty shit investment of mass.

I'd have a look at getting a hold of something like the Preta A to serve as the spotter for the rest of your unit. I don't think the other designs you've chosen are really good either but I guess you're doing a themed unit.

Too meta

Two questions about the Lyrans:

What all new mechs are designed or produced by them in the 3rd War to Clan invasion era? I can think of the Hatchetman, Wolfhound and Devastator.

And of their indigenous designs between 3050 and 3067, which would /btg/ say are best and which are worst?

Working on a force for them.

Devastator is a Feddie protoype and not produced in quantity until the DVS-2 in 3049. Just like Hatchetman is a Team Banzai machine. Better to just put your mind to calling it all Fedcom than trying to weasel out Lyran specific.

But Fedcom-wise, you got the best of everything into 3067. Devastators, Nightstars, Thunderhawks, Berzerkers, Marauder II's, their homegrown omni program, their Phoenix upgrades. You got a LOT to work with.

Just thumb through TRO:3055, 3058, 3060, 3067 to get an idea for all the toys that you can have fun with.

a couple years ago there was a gun store + indoor shooting range near me that got burned down by some genius cops doing mag dumps with tracer rounds into the rubber backstop. tons of pistol and rifle ammo went up with it; sounded like somebody cooking up all the popcorn in the world for like three hours.

Devastator's original production site is in the Lyran Commonwealth. It's kinda surprising how many Feddie fans don't know they got a production site for it (and the Penetrator and the Falconer) in HB: HD.

It's probably more iconic for the Suns than the Lyrans but the Lyrans during the FedCom merger would have plenty.

3rd War to Clan Invasion is pretty sparse for everyone. Hatchetman and Wolfhound are the big two. The Banshee-S redesign was pretty extensive but it is still a variant on an existing machine rather than a full rebuild.

Of the designs they get after the 3050s, the best ones are things like the Dart, Spector, Starslayer, Nightsky, Uziel (PPC variant, any way), Verfolger, Dragon Fire, Penetrator Falconer, Nightstar, Thunder Hawk, Devastator and Fafnir. I generally prefer the standard GR Fafnir to the HGR/iHGR one too.

Worst I'd say are ones like the Fireball, Enfield, or Stiletto which are just shit at the role they're intended for and work poorly any way. The Enfield gets my nod for most unnecessary new design ever, just make a goddamn Enforcer variant if you're that worked up about its flaws.

Derp Age xD

The fireball is an excellent vehicle killer. Load it with infernos or tandems and swap the MG to rapid then go nuts. I forget what it was used for though. If it had anything to do with infantry then it was fucked.

I just realized I fucked up and was thinking of the custom variant my GM loved instead of the one using Streaks. Wow, other than the variants that are like extra speedy ground Spiders, it does really suck.

>the custom variant my GM loved
post it

It's nothing special, just a Class A refit. Swap the streak for a vanilla SRM4 and reduce the MG to half a bin.

IIRC it was designed to be a dedicated Elemental hunter/killer, which it failed miserably at.

This.

You used to be able to load Infernoes in the Streak, but it was before Infernoes popped BA so that was pointless. Don't think you could even target BA with Infernoes back then any way.

But between that and the MG, you had to close within SRM-2 and/or Small Laser range against Elementals to kill them. It was a pure hurr durr design.

When Infantry/BA completely ignore TMM, that kind of happens with any sort of light you send after them.

Somebody should make an edit of "roll on the ground, try not to cry, cry a lot" for getting swarmed by elementals.

>an elemental will never facefuck your cockpit with a battle claw, killing you instantly

Why live?

Honestly, I don't know.

>Why live
To remove kebab

They ignore the AMM, their OWN movement mod, not the TMM, the TARGET's movement mod.

Anyone who gets Swarmed deserves it.

You have to close to their Jump MP range (3 hexes, usually) then fail to brush them off in your physical phase, then fail to jump or flail the following turn.

The amount of BA I've killed by jumping into water when they try to Swarm must number in the hundreds by now.

Just do Leg attacks, Swarm attempts are pointless.

When playing with BA, the only time I attempt a swarm is when the enemy is knocked out or shut down from heat. But it is brutal when you pull it off.

I kind of agree; the Cyclops is supposed to be evenly distributed like the Stalker, but just much much more rare. They would only have 2-3 at most, at any rate.

Man, I gotta make a bunch of 'Mechs under these rules and run a campaign around 'em. Fuckin' Patlabor: Battletech Edition.

That one scene of them stopping a drunk guy in a construction mech, Movie 1 I think it was?, was one of the best security mech moments I can remember.

I think one of the BT novels actually had the line "stop, drop and roll" as the mnemonic for stopping Elementals and other infantry swarming you.

So, the Kuritan's DEST are also capable of piloting a Battlemech
How would a DEST Lance look?

They can also pilot Aeros and wear Battle Armor. They're some of the only top shelf boys in the old days who got LAM's. There were even DEST dudes flying them far into the 3050's and using them to fight space chickens.

>How would a DEST lance look?

Same as any other Drac lance. 100% Panther or 100% Dragon are both highly likely.

>How would a DEST Lance look?

The only way to know this would be if somebody actually saw a DEST lance and lived to tell about it.

Awful /pol/ meme

This is a good breakdown, and since the thread went to shit immediately afterwards, I wanted to say thanks. I didn't realize the choices of MOC equipment was quite so dire prior to the Trinity alliance, since I've never looked hard at 3025 MOC before.

According to the MUL, they have a total of 40 Mech designs available to them as of 3025, and several of those are fluffed to be either completely or functionally obsolete (Icarus II, Koschei, how the fuck do they have two different Fleas when that's a Dragoon Mech in 3025, and how the actual fuck do they have Wolfhounds?)

Realistically, the only things they'd have in any significant numbers would be Hornet -151s, Javelins, and UrbanMechs for lights, plus the Stingers they make, but don't show up on the MUL. Mediums are better: Assassin, Clint, Hermes II, Vulcan, Whitworth, Vindicator, Trebuchet, and the Shadow Hawk they make but doesn't show up on the MUL. Heavies are Quickdraw, Catapult, Grasshopper, and Marauder. And then the assaults are basically just the Battlemaster and two kinds of Stalkers.

That's pretty rough, even for a Periphery realm. I suppose the resident Periphery-hater would be OK with them not having Mechs at all, but given how light the MOC forces are supposed to be, I don't see how you can reasonably play a game with a company composed of 6 Stingers, two Vulcans, two Vindicators, 1 Shadow Hawk and 1 Marauder against...well, any company-sized group from any other faction in the game. I'm actually less upset about the Trinity Alliance now, given that it corrects a pretty ludicrous imbalance. Mind you, it still does it far too quickly and isn't justified in the fluff at all (why would Sun-Tzu bother if the MOC sucked this badly?), but in terms of making a GAME actually function, I can see where the writers were coming from. Every faction should be reasonably playable, and the MOC wasn't.

"Anything they want/need" would be a good guess. If they're fighting openly (say dropping a team behind Clan lines), the best Teddy K can provide; if they're going in clandestinely, whatever's appropriate for the job (FWL 'Mechs for a black op in the LC/FWL border, iconic Davion stuff for shit in the Draconis March, etc.)

And that's just the giant robots, at least some of them are trained to fly ASFs, dropships and probably jumpships as well, besides the mandatory courses in applying fist and katana to face.

>How would a DEST Lance look?

Canonically, one-quarter LAMs.

Source: Far Country.

>I didn't realize the choices of MOC equipment was quite so dire prior to the Trinity alliance
Have you literally never read about the Periphery?

>Have you literally never read about the Periphery?
Or even the parts of the Inner Sphere that butt up against the Periphery like the Outback or Pesht Military District.

I would have thought they at least had reasonable access to the original Unseens, for one. Because as of BT 2e, everybody did. Some factions had MORE of them than others, but basically everyone had access to a fair number of each of them.

That was the last time I paid meaningful attention to the Periphery powers, because they didn't interest me. So yes, realizing that they have access to between only 2-6 designs in each weight class is a surprise, when everyone else - even the other Periphery powers - have access to a much wider variety AND better designs to boot.

Exactly.

But what is reasonable to you? The 3025 era was the age of Mad Max and supply issues for the states with massive military-industrial complexes. The Periphery powers are obviously going to be in an even more dire situation. Not trying to be mean man but come on it's laid out pretty darn clear in the fluff. Even in 3064 stuff like assaults are rare.

>MoC Unit in AtB, 3160 and FM: 3145 tables just for the hell of it and to get used to new tech
>Fighting shittons of FWL, Pirates, and Andurians. Surprisingly, the Marians aren't even listed in the AtB contracts tables for the Canopians, so I miss out on my chances of duking it out with RL-apalooza.
>Kind of bored of fighting FWL forever. Decide to go merc, and take this party into the CC/FS border.
>First contract, against WoB? Alright sure, maybe it's rooting out some old holdout.
>RAPERAPERAPERAPERAPE when twice my weight, almost 100% mechs, and everything is top-shelf gear in spite of a "D" rating.
>Oh fuck. alright. Lets get an anti-Davion contract going and.
>CLANTECH, CLANTECH EVERYWHERE.
>ALSO PULSE LASERS and Gunnery 3

I have been spoiled in fighting the FWL. I need to salvage the FS' munchkin toys.

Basically, there was a reason why the IS never really perceives the periphery as a real threat. There is the issue of pirate incursions from the periphery, but even the crappiest regiments would be sent out there and kick their shit right in, and that was with 3rd succession war stuff when even IS powers had difficulty keeping their shit in one piece.

For the Periphery, pirate incursions were a very real threat, especially when the few mechs you have are probably bug mechs and maybe a company of Scorpion tanks.

The Taurians were the one, most unusually well equipped faction - mostly because they were more spooked by the perceived Davion "Gold menace" than pirates. Most periphery states didn't even have the ability to produce mechs.

>The 3025 era was the age of Mad Max and supply issues for the states with massive military-industrial complexes

I have already brought it up here a few times, but one thing that I think that we saw in a lot of the old novels - especially in the GDL series, was that - at least I felt - there should have been a fuckton more bug mechs floating around. I always found that even in 3025, if you ever gave players a choice, the first thing they would do is gravitate towards anything 55 tons and above, which doesn't really lend well to the sort of awe-inspiring feel that they talk about mechs with in the novels.

Like the Shad. You see an old 3025 model and just about anyone scoffs, but the books made it out to be some godly beast.

I find that you can make the games much more interesting if you either force each team to take at least 50% bug mechs, or if you're using RATs, make each mech that you roll for have a 50% chance of being a bug mech, before rolling on the RAT (Which could potentially give you a bug mech, as well)

I haven't tried it with another player yet, but it has actually made for some really unique-feeling matches in Megamek against princess. When a Commando seems beefy, you know that it's going to be an interesting game.

I've played late-3rd war campaigns in deepest darkest Madmaxtech of the 2990's and let me tell you, nobody considers anything shit because a large chunk of the stuff you are fighting are bugs. When you see an assault, even if it's a Charger, you sit up and take notice.

Even a vanilla Shad can reach out and touch you at LRM and AC5 range which way outclasses the guns on standard bugs.

Honestly makes the Kuritans look a whole lot more intimidating with all their panthers too. You feel like hot shit with a lance of low end mediums when suddenly you're staring down a panther lance that has more firepower than an awesome.

The Xotl RAT's take this sort of stuff into account. Lotta bugs and lights.

>Some of my favorite Light mech are the Firebee and the Toro
>They're basically extinct

I know there's better options, but I liked those fellas