Pokemon RPG brainstorming

PbtA was what I was thinking, but it seems like it would be difficult to keep consistant now.

It's not difficult at all to make a "consistent" (or whatever other word you were probably looking for) PbtA Pokémon game.

You just have to abandon any notion of using the video games' mechanics and systems.

Bump

Ever thought of doing a gijinka setting (where all the pokemon have become anthropomorphic and intelligent)?

So many posts to reply to, and you choose to contribute nothing to the thread?

There are other less crunchy options out there, Pokerole and pokemon pen & paper come to mind, there's also pokethlulu.

If you are gonna brainstorm you should star for what feeling you are going for:
Do you want it to be like a wargame?
Do you want more free-form role playing?

You're right, sorry. I wanted to keep it from dying before I could reply.

How would you do combat that keeps the feel of Pokemon but within PbtA rules?

Yes! This seems easier as you can generalize more type wise IMO and eliminates the problem of Pokemon seeming like tools.

Definitely more freeform

I haven't heard of any of those systems, I'll check them out.

Making the pokemon humanoids also makes it easier to use both generalist systems like GURPS and freeform storytelling.

I always wondered why the rpg's are so ridiculous, considering you need a sheet for like each pokemon.

Could battle just be simplified to something like Infinity? Where Pokemon just have an action and reaction? Like a Pikachu could use a movement and attack and then choose dodge reactions, and it basically comes down to rolling a die on each side, using a speed modifier from Pikachu and attack modifier from the attacker?

Pokemon Pen and paper already does something similar to that.

Veeky Forums is full of PTA/U fags that get butthurt whenever someone wants to play something else, but many other systems have already done things differently and are also pretty fun to play.

Ah I see! Thanks for letting me know, didn't know about pen and paper and will definitely check that out

So when I get home I'll start fleshing out a gijinka system because everything else seems to be covered. I want it to be more freeform, any suggestions?

>How would you do combat that keeps the feel of Pokemon but within PbtA rules?
Define the "feel" of Pokémon combat, define around five distinct approaches to Pokémon combat, translate those approaches to basic moves and associated stats, define several archetypes of Pokémon, create moves that distinguish archetypes from each other, either modifying the general approaches or opening new avenues of action.

Of course, that assumes that combat is the sole focus of the game.
If you want a more comprehensive system, you either have to slot the combat system into the main system, which effectively results in playing two different games at the table or reduce combat to an approach.

So I kinda abandoned the gijinka idea because I figured out a way to make PbtA work, what are some classes I should put in?

Okay so far I have:
Ace trainer: Battling, training, becoming the very best like no one ever was
Breeder: Hatching, caring for others, being trusted
Super Nerd: Optimizing, building, fixing
Youngster: Not sure exactly but I'm thinking it could be a jack of all stats?
Ranger: Survival, befriending wild Pokemon, using the environment to their advantage
Researcher: Researching (duh), making discoveries, using gathered intellect (maybe better for detective?)
Grunt: Intimidation, navigating the underground, ???
Detective: ???

Alright narrowing it down a bit
I'll keep Ace Trainer, Breeder, Ranger, Super Nerd, and Researcher, and I'll try to think of a class based on catching. I might add Youngster in if I find a way to make it actually interesting, and I'll add grunt and detective as a supplement if this goes through so I don't get overwhelmed.

Don't make the mistake of trying to make too many classes or you'll end up with dozens of them.

It's better if the roles fit a broad spectrum instead of a specific one.

Everyone fits into the Pokemon Trainer Category, so everyone should be able to:
>Battle with their Pokemon
Not because a player focuses on social stuff means it must be impaired for combat.
>Use their Pokeballs and items
This is a given, while the bug catchers are seen using a net or fishermen are seen using a rod in the end every trainer catches their pokemon with a pokeball.

>Participating in combat
Everyone must be able to do something in battle. From damage to support. that means all classes must include something for it.

I would suggest these broad categories.

Ace Trainer for trainers focused on battles
Coordinator for trainers who focus on social
Ranger for trainer who focus on nature and travel
Researcher for trainers who focus on science and technology.

That's it, everything else should be role-play if you want it to be free form.
If a players wants a grunt and to act evil the he should act like it, do not complicate it with class modifiers and bonus features and stuff like that, you'll make the same mistake as PTA who also started with the classes first around eight then over 40.

You're probably right, it's just that every other PbtA game I've played had like nine classes to choose from because of how they're designed to work. I'll start with the four you listed, and if I decide I need more I'll make supplements.

Should I have combat stats (defence, special attack) and general status (charm, grace), or would that be to complicated?

Can you make basic moves that are meaningfully different in application and consequence for each stat?

I don't think I could, no. I'm having a hard time moving from conventions of the games.

Then why don't you scrap what you have and follow the guideline in ?

I did, when I get up in the morning I'm making the basic moves and Pokemon archetypes.

I am partial to the way it was handled in Pokemon Conquest. The lack of pokeballs made it more interesting.

What do all these abreviations stand for? I only know two pokemon systems: pokemon tabletop united and some mystery dungeon system.
Also while PTU is a solid system, it is way too complex, GMs often complain about taking forever to complete sheets. Everytime i ask them why not use a generic system
>because ptu at least has moves and pokemom stated
I would also kill for a propper pmd sourcebook for ptu

Pretty sure PMA and PMU are supposed to refer to Pokémon Tabletop Adventures and Pokémon Tabletop United.
PbtA is Powered by the Apocalypse.

Why not Cortex+ (Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, Firefly)?

Pokemon stats range from 1 to 255. Cortex+ ranges from d4 to d12.

1-30 - d4
31-60 - d6
61-90 - d8
91-120 - d10
121-150 - d12
151-180 - 2d12
181-210 - 3d12
211-240 - 4d12
241-255 - 5d12

This is how you would rate Hit Points, Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed.

Pokemon would get a die related to their "stage."

Baby - d4
Stage 1 - d6
Stage 2 - d8
Stage 3 - d10
Legendary - d12

Level would also be measured in dice.

1-7 - d4
8-14 - 2d4
15-21 - d6
22-28 - 2d6
29-35 - d8
36-42 - 2d8
43-49 - d10
50-56 - 2d10
57-63 - d12
64-72 - 2d12
73-81 - 3d12
82-90 - 4d12
91-100 - 5d12

Cortex+ characters also have Distinctions which are like Aspects in Fate. I think Pokemon makes these easy:

#1 Type
#2 Pokedex Entry (e.g. Pikachu is the "Electric Mouse" Pokemon)
#3 Nature

This is all off the top of my head. The idea behind this scheme is that you use a narrative system to make the game seem like the cartoons and comics while also making game stats relevant.

What system would be used for a more PMD sort of game, playing as a Pokemon rather than as a Trainer?

I don't understand what the Stage and Level dice are used for.

I bought this thing at a thrift store a while back, and it was basically babby's first tabletop game but with Pokemon. I seriously think with a little tweaking you could turn it into a decent barebones Pokemon system. You'd just have to stat up any other Pokemon you wanted to use, it only came with 23 Gen I Pokemon.

Stages are about capturing the feel of a given Pokemon. Higher stage Pokemon give off the feeling of being more powerful even if the stats say otherwise. It's more about the fluff than the video game crunch in this case.

Easily removed if not desired.

The way I envisioned Level working was that Pokemon use Base Stats and then rely on Level to simulate their stats going up. After all, if a Pokemon just levels up, no items used, their stats stay relative.

A Pokemon Cortex+ game could just as easily drop Stages and Level and strictly work off of Stats though.

What's the best system?

Best system for what?
For basing a pokemon game on?

Yeah, I meant PTA and PTU.
It seems to me that the stage dice would make Pokemon that aren't in a three stage line less viable.

That is easily fixed.
Pokémon with 3 Stages go d6->d8->d10, those with 2 Stages d6->d10 and without evolution d8.

>Maybe we could make something less crunch heavy?
I think the most fun thing about Pokemon is the battling, and crunch goes hand in hand with that.

This is some thing I want to do but have no clue how.

I'll check out they system, but I'm not sure I'll use it yet. Thanks!

So what kind of story do you want to tell? That might help with your system options.

Well I would like to keep it open, but I guess I would have to say something close to the manga?

Why would you invite such autist behavior as default?
I mean, Pokemon is a cesspool of autism, but there is no need to accept it as the standard.

So the PbtA system is what I'm going with for now, I'm thinking that the combat stats should be in the game but only for combat, and the general stats should be, if course, general. What do you think?

Pardon?

Pokerole has a Mystery Dungeon module.

Holy shit, I remember having that. I gotta look it up again.

If you shared the system I could look into it.

I need to compile the rest of the notes into something pretty but I made this when I last got bothered by the issue at hand.

notehub.org/wyo0y

I should note. This system was made for a pre pokeball, feral pokemon game where some humans are psions. Having a pokemon in this game is like having a pokedex. A pretty big fucking deal. That's why the xp works how it does.

...

So I started working on the PbtA classes, should we have backgrounds in game?

In the game*

What?

Have you finished the basic moves yet?

That looks terrible.
You would do better if you just use FATE or GURPS or any othe other Pokemon systems out there...

I was going to go with a generic "if you do something roll", but now that you mention it I should prob boy have more specific ones. Any ideas?

Probably*

>I was going to go with a generic "if you do something roll"
Yeah, that way you'll end up with garbage.

As previously stated: Define the "feel" of Pokémon combat, define around five distinct approaches to Pokémon combat and then translate those approaches to basic moves and their associated stats.
Only after you have done that can you even begin to think about classes, because you cannot write moves for your classes without having a solid grasp on the basic moves.

Shouldn't the general stats be general and not combat specific?

Well, the same process applies to the general stats, but that requires you to think about the "feel" of Pokémon in general, which is even harder to define.

It really is

For general I have force, smarts, and whim.

I'm probably going to deviate a lot from the system when it comes to combat, otherwise it will be hard to have it "feel" like pokemon.

I should also add that I think there should be more general stats and that I am open to suggestions

Wrong. You do not have to deviate a lot from the system.
You have to distill what makes Pokémon Pokémon and build the hack around that.

The PbtA engine is a narrative tool that can do many kinds of narratives provided you are willing to sufficiently abstract them.
You have to get to the very core, the very essence of whatever you are trying to do in that system.

If it is the games' mechanics that define the franchise for you, PbtA will never yield a satisfying result, because PbtA is all about abstraction.

Okay, then what do you recommend?

For what exactly?

Either the system I should use or the basic moves.

Dunno. You haven't told me what you consider to be the essence of Pokémon.

Well I would like to show a sense of wonder, have a focus on battling but not leave roleplaying behind, and make sure that Pokemon are characters in their own right and not just tools or weapons.

That is what you want to do with your system, not what you consider to be the essence of Pokémon.

Okay well then I think the essence is wonder and teamwork
What do you think it is?

Those don't really give a good one to one mapping with the pokemon game stats though.

A half-forgotten childhood memory and a sense of abject horror at the competitive scene.*

Wonder and teamwork are two strong themes that make for a great starting point
Now think of 4-6 player moves that evoke these themes. You should probably focus more on teamwork for that, since wonder is a tool better left to the GM. Though it wouldn't be a bad idea to give one move a stronger "wonder" bent for those players who want to contribute their personal brand of wonder.

---
* Disclaimer: The last Pokémon game I've played in any meaningful way is Yellow.

I'm really asking for advice here, I'm not trying to be an asshole, can you think of any that do?

Sigh

Bump

which pokemon would be the most likely to cause an apocalypse?

which would then cause local conditions to alter drastically? which cause other problems?

I kind of want to figure out how an ecology SHOULD work with pokemon...this includes them eating each other for food, territorial disputes, edge-interactions. locations etc.

I want a world to exist where humans are endangered because of pokemon...Pokemon; HARDCORE Edition. the kind of game you'd get if you gave 100 million dollars each to FROM Software and Bethesda Games and told them to make a Pokemon game...

can we work out that setting?
has it been worked out before?
what data applies and changes as you go up the generations?

I think I figured out what I want to do with this

I'll report back in about a week

Feel free to keep discussing

oh no you don't.

TELL US WHAT YOU'RE WORKING ON FAGGOT

Pokerole and PTU literally translated the video game stats pokemon by pokemon.
I don't know how much closer you want to get.

not him, but what I wanted in was the implied end-results of data from Pokedex entries. like the Cubone tragedy, that one pokemon that has a patch of body that outputs more heat than(I'll assume a similarly sized patch of) the surface of the sun, the unfortunate case of psyduck. and other stuff similar to that.

It will be more crunchy than PbtA because I really don't think that would work, but less crunchy then PTA/U because holy fuck
Combat and general is still going to be separated out of necessity
I'll do a post apocalyptic supplement if this ever gets completed just for you

>I'll do a post apocalyptic supplement if this ever gets completed just for you

I set up my phone to guilt me if I don't report back by Saturday

I'll start with the figuring out how combat will work

>Less crunch heavy

Why would you want that?

Because I don't like that much crunch

I'll probably keep some of it in combat, don't worry.

Because not everyone is an autist whose idea of fun is spending an afternoon doing math calculations and passing every minuscule detail from a video game into paper to do all accounting by hand.

The thing is, though, the in game stats are supposed to be a very loose abstraction, focused on game balance rather than lore. there are plenty of inconsistencies between what pokemon are supposed to be capable of in lore and how they play in game. For example a 30 foot long snake made of steel boulders has less offensive power than a 60 lb Sandslash and only a little more HP than a squirrel

I want a setting worked up that does the opposite...where an onyx is physically stronger than most things that aren't explicitly strong for their size.

I want that, very much.

the issue is "how does it change as you add generations of pokemon to the mix?"

generally speaking the power levels of pokemon are pretty consistent from generation to generation for regular pokemon. Legendaries seem to get more powerful with each new game though, i mean, the gods of space and time where in diamond and pearl

really?
awesome.

I've not really looked at the lore since Red/Blue was new, and even then I was hazy on stuff.

and Legendaries can go fuck a stick.
unless they can cause an apocalypse like I was asking about in.

Uh I looked around for a scan of the rules, couldn't find any. I'll break out the scanner and find my set and scan it for you later tonight.

Really? Thanks! I'll take a look at it.

>Arceus OC
>Keldeo OC
>glasses on Pokemon
>hair on a fucking DRAGONAIR