How to fix those guys Veeky Forums?

>No testosterone to build muscless

>He thinks you need to be a huge, hulking guy to be an effective warrior

They lack the brute size of a Westerosi knight, but they're still fearsome enough with the three types of spear. The Unsullied are not physically the greatest warriors in ASOIAF, but their discipline is second to none.

And in the Middle Ages, a disciplined army was what every general dreamed of commanding. You order them to march, they march. You order them to take a city, they took a city. You order them to die, they die.

What is the NotTrialOfTheGrasses?

Don't cut their balls off and give them a sword or something. You need more than some shitty short spears to be an elite fighting unit.

In all fairness as well, half of middle-age warfare is a shield-wall scrum. Discipline is great for that, I'll grant, but brute muscle does play an important part, as well.
But I suppose that same discipline can allow for harsher training regimes or something

Give them a sword maybe? Force them to patrol in bigger numbers? Give them armour that makes harder for some random fuck with a knife to run up and shank them?

I dont know man, the Zulus fucked shit up. Stabbing is generally the most efficient way to kill people in a fight, its why the Romans used short stabbing swords.

Sword being the key word there.

The Unsullied are basically even shittier hoplites but with no balls and half the equipment.

>You need more than some shitty short spears to be an elite fighting unit.

They used long spears in the field, they're basically robo-hoplites.

The Zulus raped everyone around them once they started using short stabbing spears.

>give them Sarrisas.
Give the first couple of ranks decent armour
>add skirmishers and cavalry to guard the flanks.
>profit

>The Unsullied are basically even shittier hoplites but with no balls and half the equipment.

Their primary opponent are retarded horsemen that think charging head-on with a short sword is a viable combat tactic.

Considering the Zulu Kingdom was utterly destroyed I wouldn't consider their warriors great examples.

Individual strength is always a plus, but when it comes down to it, discipline and coordination are what win battles. You could have the biggest, strongest dude around, who has trained his entire life and formed himself into an immaculate specimen of martial prowess, but put him up against even two guys who know how to work together, and he's likely going to die, and he's certainly not going to come out unscathed. Further, if the one guy isn't fighting according to a plan, isn't supporting the other elements of his force, and his enemy is, it's only a matter of time before they outmaneuver him and then strength really doesn't matter for shit.

Granted, ASoIaF is littered with exceptions to this rule, but that comes with it being a work of fiction, and Martin is pretty good with his contrivances.

But Western media won't ever shut up about how incredible and perfect the Zulu warrior was, they were basically jet-skinned supermen.

Yeah but it was destroyed by people with fucking Gatling guns when they had spears and hide shields.

Exactly. They were about 1500 years behind the rest of the world and got annihilated for it.

Not the best example for creating an elite army.

They were fatty fatty boombalatties that fucked over other tribesmen and colonials who were arrogant to the extreme and underestimated them. I don't know who says Zulus were perfect except cucks and 'muh dick' types.

So?

This isn't doing shit to detract from the "incorrect equipment for serious war" claim.

They were great when they fought people at the same tech level.
Saying they were shit because the Brits killed them is the same as saying the Romans are shit because an American tank could wreck them.

They failed to keep up with the rest of the world. You can't expect an empire to come down to your level so the fight will be 'fair'.

Except M1 Abrams didn't exist at the same time as the roman legions.

>I don't know who says Zulus were perfect except cucks and 'muh dick' types.

Typically when we study the Zulus in high school the teacher would emphasize how physically fit the average Zulu warrior was, often including snippets about their "ingenious" combat tactics and how they proved to be mighty foes against the incompetent British.

Beyond that, the Zulu in popcorn media is typically portrayed as the apex of physical conditioning and often quite noble, but simply a thousand years too late to really stand a chance against modern technology.

Compared to the tank they are shit.

Comparing 2 things of equal shitness when the civilized world has passed them by and trying to claim that they can still compete is as a legitimate military is a bad joke.

So, now the name of the game is "Are they trolling or just plain stupid?"

It's the same when describing Native Americans, gotta mention how in touch with nature and noble we were. Instead of history being a catalogue of everyone being dicks to each other there has to be a sprinkling of Hollywood in there.

Could ask the same of you.

The Zulu were shit because they did exist at the same time as Gatling guns and rifles. The Romans didn't exist at the same time as tanks so the comparison is a strawman.

We're talking about what makes an effective fighting relative to their neighbors. The Romans were effective, the Zulus were not.

So far as I remembered it, it's less that the Zulus were necessarily "ingenious" as much as they introduced a more lethal form of combat to a region that effectively handled war by throwing weapons at each other and backing it up with insults (not even joking here)

To be honest, it makes me think of the Aztecs

Except that wasn't the original point. The point was that the Zulus were the best of their regional military forces. The supporting evidence for this was the fact that they crushed their neighboring tribes quite handily. Bringing the Brits into the discussion is a moot point, since it has no bearing on whether the Zulus were competent warriors vis-a-vis their environment.

youtube.com/watch?v=4hQqr3Pbj7Q

>To be honest, it makes me think of the Aztecs

The Aztecs were the closest thing to a truly evil empire we have in history, they were monstrous even in comparison to the practices of local tribes and civilizations.

Except it does because vis-a-vis their environment was imperial Europe slaughtering natives left and right.

Being slightly more effective than their immediate neighbors is meaningless when your less immediate neighbors have rendered your entire form of warfare obsolete.

>tfw our teacher tried to pass the "horn formation" off as an effective tactic when it's literally Maneuvers 101.

I'm the guy saying the Zulus were great but those guys were dicks. Used prisoners as target practice and shit. They were really fit though.

>relative to their neighbors

>brits
>neighbours

It has bearing when their environment contains a British military force.

No nation or tribe exists in total isolation from the rest of the world, much to the regret of Best Korea.

>The Aztecs
>evil
Its almost like you dont want the sun to rise tomorrow.

Well when the romans fought the partians they got fucking wrecked. So were the romans shit bc they didnt use horse archers?

Again, the point was that the Zulus' use of the short stabbing spear gave them a marked advantage over other tribes. Bringing the Brits into the discussion does not disprove that point, it just proves another: rifles beat spears and shields, which is self-evident.

It stopped rising on their shitty empire.

You seem to believe that Britain appeared out of nowhere and that prior to the Anglo-Zulu war they had no contact with Europeans.

That isn't the case. They had fought (and lost) conflict with the Dutch settlers before and Cape Colony was a British colony. They were neighbors.

They were shit in that time and place.

Clearly they didn't sacrifice enough people.

They lost badly at Carrhae but were victorious in later engagements.

The Roman-Parthian conflict was largely a stalemate because neither side had the political will or military advantage to end it decisively.

It took the British many years and casualties to defeat them and they had fucking guns.

>Thinks testosterone is produced in the balls

The Anglo-Zulu war was over in 5 months....

The Aztects turned what was considered an extreme form of special sacrifice into a daily ritual so industrialized they had "flower wars" to harvest sacrifices from their client tribes.

It says a lot about the Aztec when they alone are unique in how often they enjoyed butchering people.

The Romans always had a problem with horses.

You can't argue it's efficiency, they did conquer alot of people. That No one figured them out and countered it somehow speaks more of their opponents then the zulus tho

Huitzilopochtli needs hearts so he can be strong enough to kick the shit out of his brothers and sister every day so the sun can rise.

Do you want to live in a world with no sun?

Underrated.

> give them a sword or something
They already have one (in the books).

Then they were idiots for not adopting other peoples way of war so horses wouldnt btfo them as much.

Dunno if stupid or troll

Eunuchs were ladybodied falsettos. People with testicles usually are not

Every empire needs to kill to stay in power. They just understood that if they go in and kill of some of the opposition now end then they would save themself the trouble of real war.

The show completely forgets this, but the Dothraki are primarily mounted archers. Not light cavalry trying to charge like heavy cavalry.

The Zulu's success has less to do with weaponry and more to do with disregard for cultural tradition.

>he thinks all castrati are made in their infancy
>he thinks that making a servant designed to sing in a high key and a gelding designed to be more disciplined than a hired soldier are raised the same way
>he thinks not having testicles would prevent exercise and a strict training regimen from making a functioning soldier

he probably wouldn't even notice if the sun stopped rising lmao (because he lives in his mom's basement)

>and how they proved to be mighty foes against the incompetent British

Is this why Roak's drift was a British victory despite being dramatically outnumbered?

The Zulu were Allies of the British anyway, the Zulu who fled from Roak's drift were punished for being stupid fuckups.

> Give them sallets and westerosi armor/shields
> Give them quality bastard swords
> Trash their spears (they carried 3, one that they kept and two that they probably threw) and give them 2-3 small spears (akin to pillums)
> Profit

Tell me more about the Aztecs, anons.

>Imma chop off mah soldiers bawls because Discipline.

You know one of the greatest driving forces for soldiers is ones family right?

The greatest of Athens castrated elite was ground to worthless dust by Roman's fighting for their country and their families.

>NEETs are Tezcatlipoca worshipers
Makes sense, they all want Tezcatlipoca to change their destiny but he wont because they suck.

No all im saying is that they would look feminine and have the angelic voice of a british choir boy

Huitzilopochtli was born in full armour with no skin and fights with a snake that is either on fire or spits fire or both which he uses as a spear. His mom had him after she got pregnant sweeping a ball of feathers.

>she got pregnant sweeping a ball of feathers.
w-what

Armour, no castration, more diverse equipment and roles.

But if you fix one of GoT's forces, you have to fix the rest - from the castles not being there to protect the peasants, to the ridiculous size of the countries making most of the battles nonsense.

>she got pregnant sweeping a ball of feathers

l-lewd

So he was a robot with a laserrifle?

The way she got pregnant pissed off her 400 other sons and one other daughter so much that they all decided to kill her but when they tried Huitzilopochtli burst out of her fully grown and started kicking their asses.
Would honestly be less strange.

Do you even Leydig bro?

Let them have waifus, judging by the best one of them.

>Roman's fighting for their country and their families

Romantic ideals are fine and dandy, but they don't mean shit at the tactical level. In any life-or-death fight, the last thing a soldier is thinking about is his country or his loved ones. Those are notions for when one's sympathetic nervous system isn't in control. In the thick of it, he is focused entirely on killing the enemy and surviving. He has no time for anything else.

The reason why the Romans ultimately won out over the Greeks is because they realized this fact. They picked up on the idea of separating the fighting man from the leading man. Whereas the Greeks relied on the strength of their formations to keep the line steady, the Romans had figured out how to be flexible--having some dudes separated from the fight and directing the majority of the guys doing the stabby-stabby. Rather than having a general leading from the front (and often dying gloriously), they delegated the leadership of the rank-and-file to several officers, who kept the formation disciplined and directed them in battle. This figure eventually evolved into the Centurion we all know and love (or got beaten with a wooden stick for lack of discipline).

Holy shit, that makes sense. That is exactly how people would describe robots. And now that I'm thinking about it, could guns be considered lightning? The "wizard" points his "wand" at someone, there is "a noise of thunder," and suddenly they are dead.
Do more, do more!

Just google aliens+vedas or some shit and educate yourself

They would be like women with spears. Sure they are dangerous in a group but not something i would live in fear of

I'm sure this bad joke has already been made but aren't they already, uh, fixed?

So you're saying they would be sand sneks? Those psychos would terrify me personaly

They did though. First with the usage of auxillaries and by the late empire/byzantine era they fielded exceptional cavalry that were only bested by horse archer societies such as the Sarmatians,Huns and Persians.

And no the romans weren't BTFO against the persians all the time. Both empires wrecked and got wrecked by the other from time to time.

ZULU'S ATTACK! FIGHT BACK TO BACK! SHOW THEM NO MERCY AND FIRE AT WILL, KILL OR BE KILLED!

youtube.com/watch?v=kVW5rjA5O7U

sorry I hate large reply spam too but this deserves to be shared

the sneks have plot stronk-woman armor. its so silly.

Its like fighting 13 year old boys

It's worth noting that the Romans, despite how passionate they were culturally, were famous for how disciplined and cold they were in the field. The reason Roman Legionnes were feared is because killing was a JOB to them. No chest beating or shit talking, they marched out and fucking slaughtered everyone, looted the corpses, broke camp and had lunch

I can't imagine something more terrifying than a group of raving psychopaths that can somehow bend reality in order to avoid all consequences of their actions, all the while maintaining a smug sense of superiority over the whole thing.

So you have been to a woman studies seminar i hear

Pretty rad user.

Which sneks are these?

With my luck I'd be killed by the butterfaced one